I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
I played the Bounty Hunter class up to about level 15, and Trooper up to about 25. Once you get your ship, you are given two different quests to go to two different planets. These are your basic breadcrumb quests. HOWEVER, one of those planets is generally too high for you to even consider questing on, and the other planet is right at your level. For example, as a BH, I got my ship at level 16, and then was given a quest to go to Balmorra, and another quest to go to another planet (Don't remember the name). Balmorra was a level 16-20 planet, and the other planet was level 20-24. Even though I could actually travel to the second planet, I was 4 levels too low to do any questing there. And from what I know, I didn't receive these quests due to choices I made, they were just part of my class story. In effect, they gave me two breadcrumb quests that stated "Go here, and when you are the appropriate level, go here next." Regardless, I still had to tackle the planets in the same order, and didn't really have a choice as to which one to go to first due to level restrictions. It was very odd.
Anyway, the Quesh/Hoth example given above, to my knowledge, is the only such example of overlapping levels in the game for planets. I'm hoping they add more divergent paths like this in future updates. It's literally my only true gripe with the game. And it's certainly not enough for me to kill my enjoyment of it. But it definitely will be for other players.
Well I cant speak for everyone, each like their own playstyle but for me sw:tor will be fun for a little while and then I trow it aside even tho the sci-fi/sw setting is speaking to my geekdom.
this coz they simply dint ever think about rp and its "needs" simple things, like sitting in a cantina chair..a freaking cantina..chair.. you cant.. or a chair on your ship..you cant.. , no chat bubbles, lousy emote menu. simple chat system.
the game itself is good, but for rp the game sucks (mechanical), now that does not mean anyne would be running back to wow, since that game is the king of lazy game design every game before it had more rp support then wow, still even in wow there is rp of sorts , aslong one does not mind sitting on the floor one can pretent alot
anyway, Its always bin my tought that any game should have these little things, the little flavors that makes a game simply better whitout complex cost.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
The galaxy map in-game also lists the level ranges for the planets, and you are free to explore them at will.
I was lead to Quesh due to a choice that I had made earlier in Act 1....but only for a very short time. I could have easily stayed and accomplished the faction and side quests, and then headed to Hoth for my class quests, more faction quests, and side quests....or skipped part of each planet....whatever.
I would also like to point out that this is another example of decisions that you make in the story not always having immediate consequences. Sometimes it is quite far down the line that things can come back to bite you in the arse.
Is it a major flaw? Yes, indeed it is. Will they fix it? Most likely not. Why? Because the game relies so heavily on the fully voiced story elements, any new zones are also going to be expected to also have fully voiced story elements. Other MMOs, no matter how great the need for additional leveling content redundancy, have (almost) never, (to my knowledge), added additional zones to expand the leveling content, outside of full expansions, after release. It's a daunting enough prospect as it is, but add the additional work needed for full story elements and voiced content? It's just not going to happen.
Incorrect. BW has made it very clear that they've developed the tools to crank out updates easily without losing any of their VO. In fact, they've still got hundreds of hours of voiceovers they haven't yet used, and their voice actors/actresses are basically full-time employees and available to BW as they see fit.
And with the way the game is designed, adding in a new planet is much easier than having to recode what is already there to add more like in other MMOs. Adding more planets to this game, no matter what level, will not be the daunting task you make it out to be.
Will they add in those planets during the leveling process rather than strictly as end game content? I don't know. But if they don't do it, it won't be because the voice acting makes it difficult.
If it was that easy, why not have more content ready for launch, unless the game was rushed? I see rebuttals like this all the time when a new MMO launches with out redundant leveling paths and too few zones. Development is never as concentrated and efficient as it is during the initial development of the game. If the game is content light in some areas or needs more land mass, you do that before launch, especially if your content creation tools and asset pools are that efficient and flexible.
If you're going to ninja-delete posts... is that awfully on topic?
This has actually been one of the better 'debates' on SWTOR and to what degree, if any, it will be successful.
From personal experience: I only played the 'last' beta, the stress test. I levelled several characters to 10 or 11, but nothing past. I saw enough to say that I think it will be initially successful. I see 3-6 months of content, easily. Where it goes then or what happens after that, I'm not sure.
Many of the criticisms levelled at SWTOR are valid, but in many cases, only to a certain point. The graphics DO seem underwhelming. Korriban wasn't impressive. However, when I got to Dromund Kass, I thought the graphics got significantly better. The interface does seem rudimentary. However, I've actually looked on youtube and found some 'guide' type videos by people detailing how to make some pretty useful changes within already provided menu options that, for me, removed the impression or perception of a very rigid and boring interface. VO quests DID get repetitive, however I was playing 'starter' quests and I actually levelled the same class several times to try different AC's.
I had an epiphany recently about how various people are reviewing SWTOR. In almost EVERY negative review I read, the arguments listed alternated between "WoW has had this for 6 years" and "WoW doesn't do it like this...". These arguments are contradictory. You can't complain that something is a WoW clone and deride it in the same sentence by saying it does things counter to 'the gold standard of WoW". It hit me that you can't really objectively rate this SWTOR (or any game for that matter). You can only subjectively review it. Many of the people who post negative reviews of SWTOR would do so no matter WHAT SWTOR mechanics/graphics were. There's SOMETHING in the game they simply don't like. They may not know what it is conciously, they just don't like and therefore they're going to trash whatever pops to mind. By the same token, there are those who are determined to like SWTOR no matter what SWTOR is. These 'fanbois' (as they're derisively referred to) are going to ignore a great deal of things.
SWTOR may not be for everyone. WoW is not for everyone. Eve is not for everyone. EQ is not for everyone. SWTOR does some things like WoW. It does a lot DIFFERENT than WoW. There's no right answer here. Ultimately, what will decide SWTOR's success is whether or not it endures. Even if it endures as long as WoW and even if it gets more avg monthly subscribers than WoW, WoW will have always existed and will have been a genre defining game.
P.S. Pharazonic - I wanted to mention that, while I took you to task for what I saw as irony, substantively, I agreed with your original point.
Is it a major flaw? Yes, indeed it is. Will they fix it? Most likely not. Why? Because the game relies so heavily on the fully voiced story elements, any new zones are also going to be expected to also have fully voiced story elements. Other MMOs, no matter how great the need for additional leveling content redundancy, have (almost) never, (to my knowledge), added additional zones to expand the leveling content, outside of full expansions, after release. It's a daunting enough prospect as it is, but add the additional work needed for full story elements and voiced content? It's just not going to happen.
Incorrect. BW has made it very clear that they've developed the tools to crank out updates easily without losing any of their VO. In fact, they've still got hundreds of hours of voiceovers they haven't yet used, and their voice actors/actresses are basically full-time employees and available to BW as they see fit.
And with the way the game is designed, adding in a new planet is much easier than having to recode what is already there to add more like in other MMOs. Adding more planets to this game, no matter what level, will not be the daunting task you make it out to be.
Will they add in those planets during the leveling process rather than strictly as end game content? I don't know. But if they don't do it, it won't be because the voice acting makes it difficult.
If it was that easy, why not have more content ready for launch, unless the game was rushed? I see rebuttals like this all the time when a new MMO launches with out redundant leveling paths and too few zones. Development is never as concentrated and efficient as it is during the initial development of the game. If the game is content light in some areas or needs more land mass, you do that before launch, especially if your content creation tools and asset pools are that efficient and flexible.
Easy answer? Balance. they wanted to make sure that what WAS released was solid. One of the biggest mistakes they could have made was to be too ambitious. It's a gamble that pays off big when it hits, but is devastating if not. With SO much money riding on it (150mil dev cost) they bit of a manageable chunk and put everything into it.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
The galaxy map in-game also lists the level ranges for the planets, and you are free to explore them at will.
I was lead to Quesh due to a choice that I had made earlier in Act 1....but only for a very short time. I could have easily stayed and accomplished the faction and side quests, and then headed to Hoth for my class quests, more faction quests, and side quests....or skipped part of each planet....whatever.
I would also like to point out that this is another example of decisions that you make in the story not always having immediate consequences. Sometimes it is quite far down the line that things can come back to bite you in the arse.
I never got that far. I, too, started to get the feeling very early that my choices really weren't affecting my path so much as affecting what VO cutscene played. But, as I mentioned in another post, I only played to 10 or 11. I have to trust that the OTHER beta testers, who've played more than I have, would have either a) addressed this in their beta surveys or b) complained about it on the forums, be the official or here or other places. I have yet to find anyone who spent significant time as a beta tester posting information that says "end game is crap".
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
While a class quest might send you to a different planet, the level range of that planet does not change. So if you say choose to go to Nar Shadda instead of Balmorra you're going to be fighting lvl 20-24 mobs instead of the lvl 16-20 mobs on Balmorra. Unless you do a lot of extra warzones, space missions, or the heroic quests you'll still have to level from Dromund Kaas -> Balmorra -> Nar Shadda, unless of course you like dying a lot. So you might have 3-4 quests that are different but the overall progression is still the same since the majority of your quests are shared planet quests.
Just to reiterate, just because a class quest gives you a planet choice does not mean that your leveling path changes. I've been to 50 and 43 on a SI and the leveling path was exactly the same even when I picked all the opposite choices. For the Sith it goes: Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->Nar Shadda->Tatooine->Alderaan->Taris->Quesh->Hoth->Belsavis->Voss->Correllia->Illum
The republic is almost exactly the same(iirc) except obviously their starter planets/capital planet and taris and Balmorra are switched.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
As an alt player in WoW, this limitation is rather unattractive. I certainly would not have played WoW for as long as I did, if I was limited to the same zones all the time.
The ability to modify your progression path, was something that added replayability, imo. Limiting us to various linear progression lines (as I understand it), makes the idea of playing an Alt though basically the same content, to be far less appealing.
This may be answered already, but I just got back. If you play an alt on the other faction, no quests will be the same at all. Only some of the flashpoints will be the same. So all the content will be new for each faction on the first run through.
The other intersting factor is the class personal story. The reason for going to each planet will be different. And the way you are treated by the NPCs will be different based on your class. So you may end up doing the open world side quests that will be the same. At least your class story will be unique. Now the higher you get the less class stories there will be. But, the overall world story can be different based on choices. So not everything will be the same.
But I do agree that it would be nice to see more planets added in for mid level questing for alternate paths. But at least you can skip what you don't like and play the space combat for XP and PvP warzones for XP. So you do have options to skip what you don't want to do with alterate XP features.
The only NPC's that treat you differently from my experience are the class quest ones. The shared quests are all generic quests with different suffixes(lord, bounty hunter, etc) tacked on. The dialog is all pretty much the same(i never noticed a difference). The world story does not really change based on your choices, only the very end cutscene of the world arc is different, otherwise all the quests are the same. Some of the world arcs are so bland you won't even know they are the world arc, the only one that stands out in my mind is the Taris one with the chick.
The only major flaw in my opinion is not enough quest content for alts.
But it's understandable, SWTOR is the MMORPG with the best "quest based" experience ever made, and that has a price.
Ironic, isn't it? they made the leveling experience so good that Bioware didn't have enough budget/time to add different leveling paths other than grind the rail shooter or bg's.
And what about the new content added? i would rather have new and innovative gameplay mechanics rather than a couple of new levels, raids and all that crap...
Another flaw would be selling instances/quests/anything as DLC (if it ever happens)
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
One major issue I have with this game is faction locked planets. So I gotta roll a republic toon just to see Coruscant? That's some bullshit. I hope BW changes that in a patch or expansion down the road. They need to learn that in the world of MMOs, people get attached to their characters and they love the freedom to go anywhere.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
One major issue I have with this game is faction locked planets. So I gotta roll a republic toon just to see Coruscant? That's some bullshit. I hope BW changes that in a patch or expansion down the road. They need to learn that in the world of MMOs, people get attached to their characters and they love the freedom to go anywhere.
BW's inexpertise shows at every level... I'll add this to my list of pitfalls.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Originally posted by pharazonic Originally posted by DannyGlover One major issue I have with this game is faction locked planets. So I gotta roll a republic toon just to see Coruscant? That's some bullshit. I hope BW changes that in a patch or expansion down the road. They need to learn that in the world of MMOs, people get attached to their characters and they love the freedom to go anywhere.
BW's inexpertise shows at every level... I'll add this to my list of pitfalls. Yeah. Honestly, I was sold on Imperial Agent a year ago. And one of the biggest things I was looking forward to was seeing Coruscant envisioned in an mmo. But when I found out two of my main reasons for wanting this game were mutually exclusive, I contemplated passing on this title altogether. I'm pretty much over it now, but it still stings a little if I think about it too much haha
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
MMO players are going to race through this games content in less than a month. People playing the last 3 day open beta were hitting the high teens and low 20's on more than one character! By the end of the 1st month, your average MMO player is going to have at least one level 50 and maybe two. By the end of the 2nd month - if they keep playing - they will have done everything there is to do in the game. Most will grow tired of grinding the same raids and same areas looking for HC's and they'll be on these forums complaining and looking for a new "baby raptor Jesus MMO" to call the "WoW" killer.
MMO players are going to race through this games content in less than a month. People playing the last 3 day open beta were hitting the high teens and low 20's on more than one character! By the end of the 1st month, your average MMO player is going to have at least one level 50 and maybe two. By the end of the 2nd month - if they keep playing - they will have done everything there is to do in the game. Most will grow tired of grinding the same raids and same areas looking for HC's and they'll be on these forums complaining and looking for a new "baby raptor Jesus MMO" to call the "WoW" killer.
Originally posted by Teala MMO players are going to race through this games content in less than a month. People playing the last 3 day open beta were hitting the high teens and low 20's on more than one character! By the end of the 1st month, your average MMO player is going to have at least one level 50 and maybe two. By the end of the 2nd month - if they keep playing - they will have done everything there is to do in the game. Most will grow tired of grinding the same raids and same areas looking for HC's and they'll be on these forums complaining and looking for a new "baby raptor Jesus MMO" to call the "WoW" killer.
Comic book guy from the Simpsons IRL? I'll admit I heard that voice in my head when I read your post and I laughed a little Sorry if you were trying to be taken seriously.
AAAAAAnyway....
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
The galaxy map in-game also lists the level ranges for the planets, and you are free to explore them at will.
I was lead to Quesh due to a choice that I had made earlier in Act 1....but only for a very short time. I could have easily stayed and accomplished the faction and side quests, and then headed to Hoth for my class quests, more faction quests, and side quests....or skipped part of each planet....whatever.
I would also like to point out that this is another example of decisions that you make in the story not always having immediate consequences. Sometimes it is quite far down the line that things can come back to bite you in the arse.
That's what I was looking for thanks. I think chapter two starts after Tatooine or upper 20's. So most weekend testers wouldn't know the difference.
And that is what I thougt as well, about the consequences showing up much later. So most won't know untill upper levels. And even then, they won't know the difference unless they compare notes with others of the same class vs choices made.
Anyway, nice to know that there will be options and I am sure there will be more and more as the devs add content post launch. As in LOTRO and it's new areas for different leveling paths. It will be difficult with the story, but it could still be something added.
Edit: Responding to the other posts. So I guess it doesn't change much and you have to follow the planets in the story. That does suck a bit, but at least I will have both factions that will be different paths. And I do hope more mid level planets are added for different paths down the line. But with my limited time, I will still have awhile till I have to worry about it. So I can live with it while I enjoy the ride through the stories. And help my guildies along as well as with PvP.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I am not sure that TOR will not feel bland after the stories become old -- sort of like how AoC felt bland after you completed Tortage.
I am not seeing a large concensus of reviews that defines the non-story elements of TOR to have a hooking effect. It might simply be a lack of details being shared, or it could be a sign that the gameplay is similar to what you experienced in AoC and Rift.
The OP's biggest downfall is that all current MMO's have the same combat gameplay... And despite all the great things SWTOR has added the OP might or might not get the same feeling with SWTOR.
The only game in the near future with considerably different gameplay and feeling will be GW2. Personally i think that everyone that is donw with the current generation of MMO's should at least give GW2 a chance. People like me that are still engaged with todays MMO combat will probably love SWTOR a lot more...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Let me preface this by saying that I think WoW is a great game. For me, it has been a major source of addiction since early 2005. I feel it really upped the quality of themepark mmo's and helped define what is the standard in such games.
Now, each MMO that has been released has been called the "WoW killer" at one time or another, but they have all failed to draw the playerbase permenantly away.
Over the years I have enjoyed WoW, but as many, I have desired a change, a game that would be able to captivate me so that after a couple months I would not feel the need to go back to the familiar WoW. Each MMO that I have tried has failed to do this for me, for various reasons which I will list below (many have since fixed the issues below, but if you dont have it right on release, many players never return):
Lord of the Rings Online: After about a month playing this after release, I discovered that there was almost no solo content past lvl 20ish. This made the switch hard, as I want the option in an MMO to solo at will. I know that LOTRO has since rectified this issue.
Warhammer: The game was awesome in PVP overall, but endgame PVP was highly unbalanced on release, and their was little PVE game to soften this blow. If this game had had lots of PVE content on release, or the PVP had been balanced enough to be truly captivating, I would have probably stayed here.
Age of Conan: This game was awesome through Tortage, but once in the world, it felt bland and unfinished. A game needs to be completely finished on release, and not feel like you get to a certain point and it all falls apart.
Rift: Rift was very polished from beginning to end (with some pvp balance issues and useless rep grinds on release), but unfortunately, I found it to be too bland and dry. I lost interest in the upper levels before hitting 50, due to the leveling process seeming very boring, mimicking the stale accept and grind quests of WoW, without the character of WoW. Aside from the Rifts (and to a lesser extent the soul system), which were fun at first but quickly became a grind, particularly as the players spread out and you spent most of the Rifts solo or with a couple people, the game lacked innovation entirely.
I have played multiple other MMO's aside from these, but these are the ones that kept me the longest, but each ultimately had a flaw that led to my return to WoW.
I have tried TOR in two of the beta weekends, and as far as I can tell, it does not have any of the flaws listed in the games above to my knowledge:
-The solo content is readily available all the way to end game (unlike LOTRO on release)
-PVE and PVP options are fleshed out well with plans to expand in the works (unlike Warhammer's release)
-The game is polished and complete from start to finish (unlike AoC's release)
-It offers innovation and new features that won't be just a new form of grind - in questing the story and voice overs and new interesting elements such as the companion system and space combat mini game (unlike Rift's release).
So, what do you think, does TOR have a major flaw that will have players running back to WoW in a couple months? I mean is there something wrong with this game like the flaws described above that will cause it to drop subs?
I think the major flaw is that once people grow tired of the immersion factor of the quest dialoges and voice over work (which is amazing imo) then they will become bored because for the most part under the immersion factor of the voice over the game is very shallow with little content to partake in, especailly once you get to level cap. If they cant figure out how to continue on the immersion and story at level cap I feel alot of subs will be lossed because its jsut another shallow themepark game.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
SWTOR is upon us, it came at the right time 7 years into WOW perfect, i wanted a change for a more than a year now, and it is here, u shouldnt make a checklist to see if u like this or that game, u should have a feel for it, like it happened with millions with WOW, it will happen with SWTOR it already happened to me i loved beta weekends the game seems so immersive to me, that i will lvl slowly enjoying everything.
Offcourse being Star Wars helps people will be way more pacient, like it happened to WOW the game felt right but it had few content and many bugs, but hey it was World of Warcraft, huge player fan's base, Swtor as it also, so it can be a winner any other MMO that goes into the market atm is dead as soon as it hits the stores.
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I played the Bounty Hunter class up to about level 15, and Trooper up to about 25. Once you get your ship, you are given two different quests to go to two different planets. These are your basic breadcrumb quests. HOWEVER, one of those planets is generally too high for you to even consider questing on, and the other planet is right at your level. For example, as a BH, I got my ship at level 16, and then was given a quest to go to Balmorra, and another quest to go to another planet (Don't remember the name). Balmorra was a level 16-20 planet, and the other planet was level 20-24. Even though I could actually travel to the second planet, I was 4 levels too low to do any questing there. And from what I know, I didn't receive these quests due to choices I made, they were just part of my class story. In effect, they gave me two breadcrumb quests that stated "Go here, and when you are the appropriate level, go here next." Regardless, I still had to tackle the planets in the same order, and didn't really have a choice as to which one to go to first due to level restrictions. It was very odd.
Anyway, the Quesh/Hoth example given above, to my knowledge, is the only such example of overlapping levels in the game for planets. I'm hoping they add more divergent paths like this in future updates. It's literally my only true gripe with the game. And it's certainly not enough for me to kill my enjoyment of it. But it definitely will be for other players.
What about Konfess' post?
If you're going to ninja-delete posts... is that awfully on topic?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Well I cant speak for everyone, each like their own playstyle but for me sw:tor will be fun for a little while and then I trow it aside even tho the sci-fi/sw setting is speaking to my geekdom.
this coz they simply dint ever think about rp and its "needs" simple things, like sitting in a cantina chair..a freaking cantina..chair.. you cant.. or a chair on your ship..you cant.. , no chat bubbles, lousy emote menu. simple chat system.
the game itself is good, but for rp the game sucks (mechanical), now that does not mean anyne would be running back to wow, since that game is the king of lazy game design every game before it had more rp support then wow, still even in wow there is rp of sorts , aslong one does not mind sitting on the floor one can pretent alot
anyway, Its always bin my tought that any game should have these little things, the little flavors that makes a game simply better whitout complex cost.
The galaxy map in-game also lists the level ranges for the planets, and you are free to explore them at will.
I was lead to Quesh due to a choice that I had made earlier in Act 1....but only for a very short time. I could have easily stayed and accomplished the faction and side quests, and then headed to Hoth for my class quests, more faction quests, and side quests....or skipped part of each planet....whatever.
I would also like to point out that this is another example of decisions that you make in the story not always having immediate consequences. Sometimes it is quite far down the line that things can come back to bite you in the arse.
If it was that easy, why not have more content ready for launch, unless the game was rushed? I see rebuttals like this all the time when a new MMO launches with out redundant leveling paths and too few zones. Development is never as concentrated and efficient as it is during the initial development of the game. If the game is content light in some areas or needs more land mass, you do that before launch, especially if your content creation tools and asset pools are that efficient and flexible.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
This has actually been one of the better 'debates' on SWTOR and to what degree, if any, it will be successful.
From personal experience: I only played the 'last' beta, the stress test. I levelled several characters to 10 or 11, but nothing past. I saw enough to say that I think it will be initially successful. I see 3-6 months of content, easily. Where it goes then or what happens after that, I'm not sure.
Many of the criticisms levelled at SWTOR are valid, but in many cases, only to a certain point. The graphics DO seem underwhelming. Korriban wasn't impressive. However, when I got to Dromund Kass, I thought the graphics got significantly better. The interface does seem rudimentary. However, I've actually looked on youtube and found some 'guide' type videos by people detailing how to make some pretty useful changes within already provided menu options that, for me, removed the impression or perception of a very rigid and boring interface. VO quests DID get repetitive, however I was playing 'starter' quests and I actually levelled the same class several times to try different AC's.
I had an epiphany recently about how various people are reviewing SWTOR. In almost EVERY negative review I read, the arguments listed alternated between "WoW has had this for 6 years" and "WoW doesn't do it like this...". These arguments are contradictory. You can't complain that something is a WoW clone and deride it in the same sentence by saying it does things counter to 'the gold standard of WoW". It hit me that you can't really objectively rate this SWTOR (or any game for that matter). You can only subjectively review it. Many of the people who post negative reviews of SWTOR would do so no matter WHAT SWTOR mechanics/graphics were. There's SOMETHING in the game they simply don't like. They may not know what it is conciously, they just don't like and therefore they're going to trash whatever pops to mind. By the same token, there are those who are determined to like SWTOR no matter what SWTOR is. These 'fanbois' (as they're derisively referred to) are going to ignore a great deal of things.
SWTOR may not be for everyone. WoW is not for everyone. Eve is not for everyone. EQ is not for everyone. SWTOR does some things like WoW. It does a lot DIFFERENT than WoW. There's no right answer here. Ultimately, what will decide SWTOR's success is whether or not it endures. Even if it endures as long as WoW and even if it gets more avg monthly subscribers than WoW, WoW will have always existed and will have been a genre defining game.
P.S. Pharazonic - I wanted to mention that, while I took you to task for what I saw as irony, substantively, I agreed with your original point.
Easy answer? Balance. they wanted to make sure that what WAS released was solid. One of the biggest mistakes they could have made was to be too ambitious. It's a gamble that pays off big when it hits, but is devastating if not. With SO much money riding on it (150mil dev cost) they bit of a manageable chunk and put everything into it.
The combat notevengoingtousepunctuation
I never got that far. I, too, started to get the feeling very early that my choices really weren't affecting my path so much as affecting what VO cutscene played. But, as I mentioned in another post, I only played to 10 or 11. I have to trust that the OTHER beta testers, who've played more than I have, would have either a) addressed this in their beta surveys or b) complained about it on the forums, be the official or here or other places. I have yet to find anyone who spent significant time as a beta tester posting information that says "end game is crap".
I rather liked it.
While a class quest might send you to a different planet, the level range of that planet does not change. So if you say choose to go to Nar Shadda instead of Balmorra you're going to be fighting lvl 20-24 mobs instead of the lvl 16-20 mobs on Balmorra. Unless you do a lot of extra warzones, space missions, or the heroic quests you'll still have to level from Dromund Kaas -> Balmorra -> Nar Shadda, unless of course you like dying a lot. So you might have 3-4 quests that are different but the overall progression is still the same since the majority of your quests are shared planet quests.
Just to reiterate, just because a class quest gives you a planet choice does not mean that your leveling path changes. I've been to 50 and 43 on a SI and the leveling path was exactly the same even when I picked all the opposite choices. For the Sith it goes: Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->Nar Shadda->Tatooine->Alderaan->Taris->Quesh->Hoth->Belsavis->Voss->Correllia->Illum
The republic is almost exactly the same(iirc) except obviously their starter planets/capital planet and taris and Balmorra are switched.
The only NPC's that treat you differently from my experience are the class quest ones. The shared quests are all generic quests with different suffixes(lord, bounty hunter, etc) tacked on. The dialog is all pretty much the same(i never noticed a difference). The world story does not really change based on your choices, only the very end cutscene of the world arc is different, otherwise all the quests are the same. Some of the world arcs are so bland you won't even know they are the world arc, the only one that stands out in my mind is the Taris one with the chick.
But it's understandable, SWTOR is the MMORPG with the best "quest based" experience ever made, and that has a price.
Ironic, isn't it? they made the leveling experience so good that Bioware didn't have enough budget/time to add different leveling paths other than grind the rail shooter or bg's.
And what about the new content added? i would rather have new and innovative gameplay mechanics rather than a couple of new levels, raids and all that crap...
Another flaw would be selling instances/quests/anything as DLC (if it ever happens)"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
One major issue I have with this game is faction locked planets. So I gotta roll a republic toon just to see Coruscant? That's some bullshit. I hope BW changes that in a patch or expansion down the road. They need to learn that in the world of MMOs, people get attached to their characters and they love the freedom to go anywhere.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
BW's inexpertise shows at every level... I'll add this to my list of pitfalls.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Yeah. Honestly, I was sold on Imperial Agent a year ago. And one of the biggest things I was looking forward to was seeing Coruscant envisioned in an mmo. But when I found out two of my main reasons for wanting this game were mutually exclusive, I contemplated passing on this title altogether. I'm pretty much over it now, but it still stings a little if I think about it too much haha
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
MMO players are going to race through this games content in less than a month. People playing the last 3 day open beta were hitting the high teens and low 20's on more than one character! By the end of the 1st month, your average MMO player is going to have at least one level 50 and maybe two. By the end of the 2nd month - if they keep playing - they will have done everything there is to do in the game. Most will grow tired of grinding the same raids and same areas looking for HC's and they'll be on these forums complaining and looking for a new "baby raptor Jesus MMO" to call the "WoW" killer.
Nothing will kill WoW. Only WoW can kill WoW.
AAAAAAnyway....
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
That's what I was looking for thanks. I think chapter two starts after Tatooine or upper 20's. So most weekend testers wouldn't know the difference.
And that is what I thougt as well, about the consequences showing up much later. So most won't know untill upper levels. And even then, they won't know the difference unless they compare notes with others of the same class vs choices made.
Anyway, nice to know that there will be options and I am sure there will be more and more as the devs add content post launch. As in LOTRO and it's new areas for different leveling paths. It will be difficult with the story, but it could still be something added.
Edit: Responding to the other posts. So I guess it doesn't change much and you have to follow the planets in the story. That does suck a bit, but at least I will have both factions that will be different paths. And I do hope more mid level planets are added for different paths down the line. But with my limited time, I will still have awhile till I have to worry about it. So I can live with it while I enjoy the ride through the stories. And help my guildies along as well as with PvP.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
The OP's biggest downfall is that all current MMO's have the same combat gameplay... And despite all the great things SWTOR has added the OP might or might not get the same feeling with SWTOR.
The only game in the near future with considerably different gameplay and feeling will be GW2. Personally i think that everyone that is donw with the current generation of MMO's should at least give GW2 a chance. People like me that are still engaged with todays MMO combat will probably love SWTOR a lot more...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I think the major flaw is that once people grow tired of the immersion factor of the quest dialoges and voice over work (which is amazing imo) then they will become bored because for the most part under the immersion factor of the voice over the game is very shallow with little content to partake in, especailly once you get to level cap. If they cant figure out how to continue on the immersion and story at level cap I feel alot of subs will be lossed because its jsut another shallow themepark game.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
SWTOR is upon us, it came at the right time 7 years into WOW perfect, i wanted a change for a more than a year now, and it is here, u shouldnt make a checklist to see if u like this or that game, u should have a feel for it, like it happened with millions with WOW, it will happen with SWTOR it already happened to me i loved beta weekends the game seems so immersive to me, that i will lvl slowly enjoying everything.
Offcourse being Star Wars helps people will be way more pacient, like it happened to WOW the game felt right but it had few content and many bugs, but hey it was World of Warcraft, huge player fan's base, Swtor as it also, so it can be a winner any other MMO that goes into the market atm is dead as soon as it hits the stores.
They are inept over at Origins and Bioware when it comes to customer service, that will be enough to lose a great majority.
Really?
Statements like this hold only true if you back them up with facts...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)