I think this game has many flaws, but I don't see most of them as being of the same severity as AoC or War. There are some big issues like UI and character creation, but I don't think they will be the type of flaws that destroy the game.
The biggest hurdle that Bioware will face is the speed with which they can generate quality content. I have learned about some of the software they are using internally to create content, and I think they should be able to keep a relatively quick pace.
They are coming out of the gate with a large amount of content and are already working on new post launch endgame content. They've already mentioned work on new flashpoints, operations, world pvp zones, and warzones, which is great, but I hope that they are able to expand on that and create other kinds of content as well.
As controversial as this may be, I would love to see some e-sports type of gameplay some time down the road. Arenas or even the guild vs guild warzones they've mentioned before. This would be exciting as long as it's not the only way to get the absolute best PvP gear like wow arenas.
Long term it will do fine, but it will need more than just story, or more instances of pvp, or raids.
They will need space combat,
larger explorable worlds,
worlds that have more utility with housing,
guilds that play a larger role than a group that raids with more sand box elements for example,
mini games,
social activities,
player created content with mini games for example.
Improved character customization
Dynamic events, or unique dailies created by devs/mods
Weather system more evident and dynamic
Abilties that interact with environment more, for example with the weather. If its raining maybe force lighting has a larger aoe
Day/night cycle. They should really get on this, its a big deal imo, even if its hard to implement, its better to have the illusion of day and night, or darker or brighter times of the day.
Smart AI. IF there is going to be a huge number of NPC make them aggro easily. However make certain mob easy to kill but in large numbers while others harder in smaller numbers. The change in combat and style makes things interesting.
Make jump more useful. It looks like there is no need for a jump or crouch. Make that integrated with the environment and possibly with abilties. However that might be too demanding for an mmo by turning it into an FPS.
Swimming, and underwater content
Make vehicles interesting to be more than just transport and play a role in open world pvp. Possibly pvp abilties can slow down vehicles, or stop them. Same abilties can be avioded by driver, this can create for some rping and organized races. However this requires a more fps style combat with active blocking or something similar.
Add more proffessions like music. Make music very complicated and high quality and thus allowing people to actualyl create high quality music worthy of listening on you tube. Great for advertising. Myabe a musical companion can do this?
Localize servers, expand to other areas with more service in the area.
Regional release, with subs. I am not really in need of this since English is the only language I speak, but it helps with sales of a product by being exclusive to peoples area and language.
In UO you could write books and give them to other people. Whe should be able to do the same in swtor! We can write some fan fiction or sell online guides through AH for game money instead of real money.
A lot of that could be said about every game on the market including the ones that have been around for years not just SWTOR.
A lot of that could be said about every game on the market including the ones that have been around for years not just SWTOR.
I think what any MMO would benefit from, as far as endgame goes, is variety. I think most of them get too focused on a certain type of endgame, when its variety itself that can make a game feel deep. Most MMOs don't have the budget to spread around like that, but TOR does. I hope they use it wisely, but I'm doubtful because they seem to be sticking very rigidly to their gameplan. Normally, I'd say that's smart, but Bioware seems a little too rigid to me.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
While a class quest might send you to a different planet, the level range of that planet does not change. So if you say choose to go to Nar Shadda instead of Balmorra you're going to be fighting lvl 20-24 mobs instead of the lvl 16-20 mobs on Balmorra. Unless you do a lot of extra warzones, space missions, or the heroic quests you'll still have to level from Dromund Kaas -> Balmorra -> Nar Shadda, unless of course you like dying a lot. So you might have 3-4 quests that are different but the overall progression is still the same since the majority of your quests are shared planet quests.
Just to reiterate, just because a class quest gives you a planet choice does not mean that your leveling path changes. I've been to 50 and 43 on a SI and the leveling path was exactly the same even when I picked all the opposite choices. For the Sith it goes: Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->Nar Shadda->Tatooine->Alderaan->Taris->Quesh->Hoth->Belsavis->Voss->Correllia->Illum
The republic is almost exactly the same(iirc) except obviously their starter planets/capital planet and taris and Balmorra are switched.
Just to reiterate, some of those planets you listed are the exact same level range.
We're not talking about Act 1 planets here, which atm are rather linear, with the exception that you also have the option of returning to planets you have been to for higher level bonus quests.
For example....one I've already used in fact....both Hoth and Quesh offer lvl 35+ quests.....the mobs are the same levels, the quests are the same levels.
While leveling on Taris (31+35-ish) you might decide to go back to Nar Shaddaa for the bonus quests (31-34). Entirely optional. At level 40, you could also, if you chose, go back to Alderaan for the bonus quests there, should you feel like fighting antmen until you're ready to scream.
Once again, this information will be public knowledge in a month or two, so I'll just let time take it from here.
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
Edit: the list so you do not have to check the link:
Republic:
Tython/Ord Mantell: 1-10
Coruscant: 10 - 16
Taris: 16-20
Nar Shadda: 20-24
Tattooine: 24-28
Alderaan: 28-32
Balmorra: 32-36
Quesh: 36-37
Hoth: 37-41
Belsavis: 41-44
Voss: 44-47
Corellia: 47-50
In particular you spoke how Quesh and Hoth are same level. This lists seems to say other way. Quesh has just 2 level of content? so it is a really small place?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
How did you guess the linearity from that link? or we have different definition of word linear?
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
That is pretty much how it is. You can go back to search for holocrons or do some minor things, but overall it is quite linear. I have posted numerous times in feedback spots on the official forums for them to please add systems to the game to support players going back and revisiting leveled planets/areas to expand the world.
Nothing dissapoints me more than after years of a server being up there being almost 0 players in the entire world because they are all at end game. It makes a game extremely hard to get into at a later date.
Now, each MMO that has been released has been called the "WoW killer" at one time or another, but they have all failed to draw the playerbase permenantly away.
Rift: Rift was very polished from beginning to end, but unfortunately, I found it to be too bland and dry. I lost interest in the upper levels before hitting 50, due to the leveling process seeming very boring, mimicking the stale accept and grind quests of WoW. Aside from the Rifts (and to a lesser extent the soul system), which were fun at first.
So, what do you think, does TOR have a major flaw that will have players running back to WoW in a couple months?
Replace 'rifts' with 'voice over' and you have exactly the same set of problems that hurt Rift imo.
(Rift fans were extremely active and vocal prior to realease as well... they kind of evaporated around the 3-4 month mark)
A lot of that could be said about every game on the market including the ones that have been around for years not just SWTOR.
I think what any MMO would benefit from, as far as endgame goes, is variety. I think most of them get too focused on a certain type of endgame, when its variety itself that can make a game feel deep. Most MMOs don't have the budget to spread around like that, but TOR does. I hope they use it wisely, but I'm doubtful because they seem to be sticking very rigidly to their gameplan. Normally, I'd say that's smart, but Bioware seems a little too rigid to me.
Its EA and Bioware, they bet on a sure thing. Companies like those aren't going to take many chances, sure they have money but as much as they like to spend it on AAA games they want to see more of it every year. Bioware is rigid because really they are under the gun by EA, they have to deliver and they have to go with ideas that are a sure bet.
I agree variety is great but I'm not naive to think that they will take huge chances...this is EA and Bioware we are talking about. They are trying to get on top in every genre and the MMO market is next on their list. Bioware is their best shot at winning over the genre, they aren't going to blow it on unsure ideas.
Lord of the Rings Online: After about a month playing this after release, I discovered that there was almost no solo content past lvl 20ish. This made the switch hard, as I want the option in an MMO to solo at will. I know that LOTRO has since rectified this issue.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but.. did you even play this game? It was almost all solo content, except for certain areas every so-many levels that were group based. And entirely optional. What happened was the soloers whined even more and the only group content during levelling became solo areas too. It's like Bioware making these Flashpoints, people complaining that they're too hard, then giving everyone +20 to everything during Flashpoints so they can go through it solo.
That was the time I left, when group based content started to become solo content with buffs.
Yeah, I did play it. I was in beta and I was a founder member. I didn't get the lifetime deal though, because I was unsure if it was going to hold my attention or not, which I was happy about in the long run.
In reality, after level 20 on release, the solo content became about 50% of the quests (in the Lone Lands and in the North Downs), and after level 30, the solo content became about 25% of the quests. To top this off, you couldn't solo any of the quests flagged as fellowship (group) like you do in some other easier mmo's, which is fine, but because I didn't have a good leveling group at the time, it was hard to make steady progress. They have made it so you can solo harder quests now, and even gave options for some of the group based story quests to have solo alternatives, to help the players through that want to go that route.
In fact, it wasn't until the release of Evendim that you didn't have to grind some through the 30's in order to get through. Evendim has fixed that immensely, as well as all the other quest packs they have added in the years after. LOTRO is a great game now, and I actually do play it now, but only because it went f2p.
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
How did you guess the linearity from that link? or we have different definition of word linear?
Republic:
Tython/Ord Mantell: 1-10
Coruscant: 10 - 16
Taris: 16-20
Nar Shadda: 20-24
Tattooine: 24-28
Alderaan: 28-32
Balmorra: 32-36
Quesh: 36-37
Hoth: 37-41
Belsavis: 41-44
Voss: 44-47
Corellia: 47-50
??
What do you mean? This is quite linear yes? you move from one planet to the next and beside the very first planet, there is never a choice. Never a.... "Taris 16 - 20, Nar Shadda 16 -20" option.
I did not make the list, it is taken from the link at darth hater.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The OP's biggest downfall is that all current MMO's have the same combat gameplay... And despite all the great things SWTOR has added the OP might or might not get the same feeling with SWTOR.
The only game in the near future with considerably different gameplay and feeling will be GW2. Personally i think that everyone that is donw with the current generation of MMO's should at least give GW2 a chance. People like me that are still engaged with todays MMO combat will probably love SWTOR a lot more...
Personally, I thought the combat in TOR was rather compelling. My personal favorites are the ability to be a ranged tank, or the ability to be a healer that uses an energy type resource instead of mana. I also like how most of the enemies in the game use blasters instead of melee, which actually makes it feel fresh to me.
I'm not sure that TOR will have a fault or not, like the other games. I'm just willing to admit that it is possible, and was looking for speculation on what that might be (to kill time to release more than anything lol).
As for GW2, it looks interesting, but since I didn't play GW1, I think I am partially immune to the hype, as it hasn't really got me excited yet.
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
How did you guess the linearity from that link? or we have different definition of word linear?
Republic:
Tython/Ord Mantell: 1-10
Coruscant: 10 - 16
Taris: 16-20
Nar Shadda: 20-24
Tattooine: 24-28
Alderaan: 28-32
Balmorra: 32-36
Quesh: 36-37
Hoth: 37-41
Belsavis: 41-44
Voss: 44-47
Corellia: 47-50
??
What do you mean? This is quite linear yes? you move from one planet to the next and beside the very first planet, there is never a choice. Never a.... "Taris 16 - 20, Nar Shadda 16 -20" option.
I did not make the list, it is taken from the link at darth hater.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
Farming heroic areas doesnt really sound like much fun to me.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
Farming heroic areas doesnt really sound like much fun to me.
Different strokes for different folks. I like crafting and farming mats, and heroic areas give very nice mods. Didn't say everyone would like it but for me it is a good way to take a break from questing and storyline.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
Good read and points. Thanks for this. Many will mindlessly follow the general linear path but you can always mix it up. Still though it is linear in the sense that at the end when will you ever go back to visit the rest of the universe? There is kind of an end point you know. No design systems in place or anything to really keep end game players coming back to all the worlds on a regular basis.
Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
Good read and points. Thanks for this. Many will mindlessly follow the general linear path but you can always mix it up. Still though it is linear in the sense that at the end when will you ever go back to visit the rest of the universe? There is kind of an end point you know. No design systems in place or anything to really keep end game players coming back to all the worlds on a regular basis.
Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
I agree those are some nice ideas. However, i did read that old planets open up bonus quests at same level range. So if you are say lvl 40 you can revisit old planets to do those quests. I never went really high because i didn't want to spoil it all but whatever i have read so far, revisting old planets is a possbility.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
1. Untested Endgame - Well 2 weeks of testing compared to 5 months of endgame testing in Rift prior to release.
2. Action Combat - I did not enjoy the combat especially in group. Mobs died to fast, to much chasing and combat was to fast for my tastes.
3. If felt like a singleplayer game to me. A well made and enjoyable singleplayer game. I think this will be a turn off to many older MMO players.
4. Fast Leveling After people level 1-50 in 30-50 hours, long before the headt start ends, what then? Many will likely become bored and quit.
Even if you believe what i said in 1-4 there is a good chance TOR will do very well. Just because it has a built in market with many SW fans and Bioware fans. While it may lose many players it has the ability to gain many replacement players at a very fast rate.
I ma not bashing SWOR I think its a good game for what it is. But its not a long term game for me. Regardless I hope it does well.
Wrong just because they didn t let you test it doesn't mean it was not, I was in the beta for over a year, they delayed the game because the testers found fights to easy that was one reason it was delayed, we tested over and over until end game was where we wanted it, they have different modes for different type of players. The outlaw den was done properly, I mean there is some many elements you 2 week testers would of never had the time to see and bioware did thata on purpose so it did not spoil it for everyone, it was all TESTED and tested right.
Since you where in the 2 week tests only I see how you could feel that way seeing that your polly never made it past level 15 or 20. You have not even seen 1/10 of the game yet. So once you play it and all the elements , you will see.
Sorry scanned through first 5 pages and not much else
To the OP, i think the game will play as complete and polished, or it certainly did when i played beta weekend.
You will find no flaws as such, even if you are burned out on "theme park" MMOS you will get some enjoyment at least throughout hte levelling process.
Somone commented about adding mass content not a the endgame.
WOuldnt that be awesome if say you got to level 20 and then to get to level 21 took 100x the xp it did 19-20, the only way to speed through this was by completeing one of a selection of quests, or grinding for weeks. The quests could be to complete a simple operation, or specialise in a particularly unique craft ability quest chain. massive xp jums could be had every x number of levels or such like.
It would completely mess it up for the powerlevel crowd, but the rest of us would sit back and enjoy stuff a whole lot more, while learning more and more about the game as a whole.
Originally posted by ProfRed Originally posted by onthestick
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot. I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points. SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content. If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
Good read and points. Thanks for this. Many will mindlessly follow the general linear path but you can always mix it up. Still though it is linear in the sense that at the end when will you ever go back to visit the rest of the universe? There is kind of an end point you know. No design systems in place or anything to really keep end game players coming back to all the worlds on a regular basis. Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
You don't really want a bunch of high level players stomping around in lower level areas. You want low level players in low level areas doing their thing without interference. "Being a theme park game" isn't a design defect, it's just a design.
Also "Linear progression" isn't a design defect either. However, a linear level path doesn't mean the game itself is linear. This ignores all the choices available on each planet (zone).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
I agree those are some nice ideas. However, i did read that old planets open up bonus quests at same level range. So if you are say lvl 40 you can revisit old planets to do those quests. I never went really high because i didn't want to spoil it all but whatever i have read so far, revisting old planets is a possbility.
Nice yeah I haven't been far at all so I can't say for sure how much they have of that. I know they have some sandbox style ideas on their wall of crazy too so who knows where they go with development. I just hope they don't get too bogged down tacking on content to the end of the game with full voice over support etc. to implement them. They have a solid foundation what will be telling is what they do with their first expansion.
My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?
Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.
The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.
People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.
Time will rectify this issue.
To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.
I thought this was true. I only played up to level 20 in beta. But even here on mmorpg, they had an interview about the BH story. And it said that the choices you make will send you to different planets for chapter two. So that does sound like alternate paths to me.
Did you ever take the same class through to chapter two and end up on different planets based on choice? Or did you here others talk about the story taking them to different planets?
The problem is that unless we know for a fact this is true. No one will know becaue you can only make one choice. And you will end up playing a different class as an alt and not know that you had a different planets to go to if you made a different choice. I guess walkthroughs and databases will list level ranges on planets for each faction. So we will at least know that we could quest on another planet even if our story doesn't take us there. Just pop into your ship and go there.
While a class quest might send you to a different planet, the level range of that planet does not change. So if you say choose to go to Nar Shadda instead of Balmorra you're going to be fighting lvl 20-24 mobs instead of the lvl 16-20 mobs on Balmorra. Unless you do a lot of extra warzones, space missions, or the heroic quests you'll still have to level from Dromund Kaas -> Balmorra -> Nar Shadda, unless of course you like dying a lot. So you might have 3-4 quests that are different but the overall progression is still the same since the majority of your quests are shared planet quests.
Just to reiterate, just because a class quest gives you a planet choice does not mean that your leveling path changes. I've been to 50 and 43 on a SI and the leveling path was exactly the same even when I picked all the opposite choices. For the Sith it goes: Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->Nar Shadda->Tatooine->Alderaan->Taris->Quesh->Hoth->Belsavis->Voss->Correllia->Illum
The republic is almost exactly the same(iirc) except obviously their starter planets/capital planet and taris and Balmorra are switched.
Just to reiterate, some of those planets you listed are the exact same level range.
We're not talking about Act 1 planets here, which atm are rather linear, with the exception that you also have the option of returning to planets you have been to for higher level bonus quests.
For example....one I've already used in fact....both Hoth and Quesh offer lvl 35+ quests.....the mobs are the same levels, the quests are the same levels.
While leveling on Taris (31+35-ish) you might decide to go back to Nar Shaddaa for the bonus quests (31-34). Entirely optional. At level 40, you could also, if you chose, go back to Alderaan for the bonus quests there, should you feel like fighting antmen until you're ready to scream.
Once again, this information will be public knowledge in a month or two, so I'll just let time take it from here.
Quesh is a tiny planet and is not meant to level you the same level range that Hoth is. It is a 1 level planet that is maybe the size of korriban(2-3 small quest hubs). Go ahead and try to skip Hoth and do Quesh instead and then get back to me, because it simply won't happen. Unless Bioware has expanded Quesh by about 300% you are not going to get to the same levels gained as you would on Hoth, thus putting you behind on Belsavis.
What happened was that people were basically required to do every single quest and even most of the heroics to stay on level for the planets. Bioware decided to change that a bit and used the bonus series of those planets as "catch-ups". The last time I leveled to 50 I did all quests on every single planet(heroics included up until the end of Hoth) that weren't broken, most of the bonus quest series on Nar Shaddaa and alderaan(ald heroics were way overtuned), and I hit 50 just before the last hub on correllia where you are supposed to hit 50.
Just to clear this up. You're making the assertion that there are parrallel planets for leveling IE: Quesh instead of Hoth. This is not the case. While you might be able to get enough XP to skip a planet with warzones, space missions, etc, there are no parallel planets.
Also "Linear progression" isn't a design defect either. However, a linear level path doesn't mean the game itself is linear. This ignores all the choices available on each planet (zone).
Agreed. Actually, since WoW was re-designed for Cata, leveling is pretty much designed to be a linear path so that they can gain the advantages of increased ability to tell a good story, and a very natural feeling progression for the player. It actually is better imo, because it avoids the moments you used to get in WoW where you would hit a level and be out of quests, and truly wonder where you should go next with no direction. That is generally a bad position to leave a player in (even sandbox mmo's need to be clear about what types of options the player can progress out to if they wish to).
Originally posted by Distaste Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by Distaste
Originally posted by artemisentr4
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Cthulhu23
Just to reiterate, some of those planets you listed are the exact same level range. We're not talking about Act 1 planets here, which atm are rather linear, with the exception that you also have the option of returning to planets you have been to for higher level bonus quests. For example....one I've already used in fact....both Hoth and Quesh offer lvl 35+ quests.....the mobs are the same levels, the quests are the same levels. While leveling on Taris (31+35-ish) you might decide to go back to Nar Shaddaa for the bonus quests (31-34). Entirely optional. At level 40, you could also, if you chose, go back to Alderaan for the bonus quests there, should you feel like fighting antmen until you're ready to scream. Once again, this information will be public knowledge in a month or two, so I'll just let time take it from here. Quesh is a tiny planet and is not meant to level you the same level range that Hoth is. It is a 1 level planet that is maybe the size of korriban(2-3 small quest hubs). Go ahead and try to skip Hoth and do Quesh instead and then get back to me, because it simply won't happen. Unless Bioware has expanded Quesh by about 300% you are not going to get to the same levels gained as you would on Hoth, thus putting you behind on Belsavis. What happened was that people were basically required to do every single quest and even most of the heroics to stay on level for the planets. Bioware decided to change that a bit and used the bonus series of those planets as "catch-ups". The last time I leveled to 50 I did all quests on every single planet(heroics included up until the end of Hoth) that weren't broken, most of the bonus quest series on Nar Shaddaa and alderaan(ald heroics were way overtuned), and I hit 50 just before the last hub on correllia where you are supposed to hit 50. Just to clear this up. You're making the assertion that there are parrallel planets for leveling IE: Quesh instead of Hoth. This is not the case. While you might be able to get enough XP to skip a planet with warzones, space missions, etc, there are no parallel planets.
If players have to do every single quest on every available planet to reach max level, then it is going to be a problem. Adding content immediately after release, unless that content is already available, tested and ready to go doesn't usually go well. It is one of the things that nearly killed* Champions Online. There needs to be enough content for players to feel like they're choosing their path, even if the only choice is to skip some quests.
* Or killed it depending on how you look at it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Also "Linear progression" isn't a design defect either. However, a linear level path doesn't mean the game itself is linear. This ignores all the choices available on each planet (zone).
Agreed. Actually, since WoW was re-designed for Cata, leveling is pretty much designed to be a linear path so that they can gain the advantages of increased ability to tell a good story, and a very natural feeling progression for the player. It actually is better imo, because it avoids the moments you used to get in WoW where you would hit a level and be out of quests, and truly wonder where you should go next with no direction. That is generally a bad position to leave a player in (even sandbox mmo's need to be clear about what types of options the player can progress out to if they wish to).
Maybe for hte majority, but it is all too easy to click on a load of quest npcs and blindly follow the arrows on the map.
Isnt it fun to ask oyurself what to do next? go exploring and get stomped on by some ungodly creature? I like all that stuff
Comments
I think this game has many flaws, but I don't see most of them as being of the same severity as AoC or War. There are some big issues like UI and character creation, but I don't think they will be the type of flaws that destroy the game.
The biggest hurdle that Bioware will face is the speed with which they can generate quality content. I have learned about some of the software they are using internally to create content, and I think they should be able to keep a relatively quick pace.
They are coming out of the gate with a large amount of content and are already working on new post launch endgame content. They've already mentioned work on new flashpoints, operations, world pvp zones, and warzones, which is great, but I hope that they are able to expand on that and create other kinds of content as well.
As controversial as this may be, I would love to see some e-sports type of gameplay some time down the road. Arenas or even the guild vs guild warzones they've mentioned before. This would be exciting as long as it's not the only way to get the absolute best PvP gear like wow arenas.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
A lot of that could be said about every game on the market including the ones that have been around for years not just SWTOR.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
I think what any MMO would benefit from, as far as endgame goes, is variety. I think most of them get too focused on a certain type of endgame, when its variety itself that can make a game feel deep. Most MMOs don't have the budget to spread around like that, but TOR does. I hope they use it wisely, but I'm doubtful because they seem to be sticking very rigidly to their gameplan. Normally, I'd say that's smart, but Bioware seems a little too rigid to me.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
http://db.darthhater.com/locations/#locations:0-2+1
Here I see the level range of planets.
They are completely linears.
Care to please contradict me? Because this REALLY bother me and I would like to find out it is not like this list make it appear to be.
Edit: the list so you do not have to check the link:
Republic:
Tython/Ord Mantell: 1-10
Coruscant: 10 - 16
Taris: 16-20
Nar Shadda: 20-24
Tattooine: 24-28
Alderaan: 28-32
Balmorra: 32-36
Quesh: 36-37
Hoth: 37-41
Belsavis: 41-44
Voss: 44-47
Corellia: 47-50
In particular you spoke how Quesh and Hoth are same level. This lists seems to say other way. Quesh has just 2 level of content? so it is a really small place?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
How did you guess the linearity from that link? or we have different definition of word linear?
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
That is pretty much how it is. You can go back to search for holocrons or do some minor things, but overall it is quite linear. I have posted numerous times in feedback spots on the official forums for them to please add systems to the game to support players going back and revisiting leveled planets/areas to expand the world.
Nothing dissapoints me more than after years of a server being up there being almost 0 players in the entire world because they are all at end game. It makes a game extremely hard to get into at a later date.
Replace 'rifts' with 'voice over' and you have exactly the same set of problems that hurt Rift imo.
(Rift fans were extremely active and vocal prior to realease as well... they kind of evaporated around the 3-4 month mark)
Its EA and Bioware, they bet on a sure thing. Companies like those aren't going to take many chances, sure they have money but as much as they like to spend it on AAA games they want to see more of it every year. Bioware is rigid because really they are under the gun by EA, they have to deliver and they have to go with ideas that are a sure bet.
I agree variety is great but I'm not naive to think that they will take huge chances...this is EA and Bioware we are talking about. They are trying to get on top in every genre and the MMO market is next on their list. Bioware is their best shot at winning over the genre, they aren't going to blow it on unsure ideas.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
Yeah, I did play it. I was in beta and I was a founder member. I didn't get the lifetime deal though, because I was unsure if it was going to hold my attention or not, which I was happy about in the long run.
In reality, after level 20 on release, the solo content became about 50% of the quests (in the Lone Lands and in the North Downs), and after level 30, the solo content became about 25% of the quests. To top this off, you couldn't solo any of the quests flagged as fellowship (group) like you do in some other easier mmo's, which is fine, but because I didn't have a good leveling group at the time, it was hard to make steady progress. They have made it so you can solo harder quests now, and even gave options for some of the group based story quests to have solo alternatives, to help the players through that want to go that route.
In fact, it wasn't until the release of Evendim that you didn't have to grind some through the 30's in order to get through. Evendim has fixed that immensely, as well as all the other quest packs they have added in the years after. LOTRO is a great game now, and I actually do play it now, but only because it went f2p.
Republic:
Tython/Ord Mantell: 1-10
Coruscant: 10 - 16
Taris: 16-20
Nar Shadda: 20-24
Tattooine: 24-28
Alderaan: 28-32
Balmorra: 32-36
Quesh: 36-37
Hoth: 37-41
Belsavis: 41-44
Voss: 44-47
Corellia: 47-50
??
What do you mean? This is quite linear yes? you move from one planet to the next and beside the very first planet, there is never a choice. Never a.... "Taris 16 - 20, Nar Shadda 16 -20" option.
I did not make the list, it is taken from the link at darth hater.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Yes, its called progress/innovation/evolution.
Currently er are stuck in 2004. Kinda like groudhog day - every new game is same as previous lol.
Personally, I thought the combat in TOR was rather compelling. My personal favorites are the ability to be a ranged tank, or the ability to be a healer that uses an energy type resource instead of mana. I also like how most of the enemies in the game use blasters instead of melee, which actually makes it feel fresh to me.
I'm not sure that TOR will have a fault or not, like the other games. I'm just willing to admit that it is possible, and was looking for speculation on what that might be (to kill time to release more than anything lol).
As for GW2, it looks interesting, but since I didn't play GW1, I think I am partially immune to the hype, as it hasn't really got me excited yet.
At lvl 15 i went to Taris and could easily do quests higher than my level. yes heroics were trouble and i wasn't expecting to duo it with my companion. At first character i went to Nar Shada on second one i went to Tattooine instead. i always like to make fights a bit challenging so i travelled back and forth a lot.
I guess that is my play style and never thought i was being pushed into a particular direction. Most of the times i didn't even do quests as crafting always gives better gear and weapons. So i just joined a group and farmed heroic areas for mats and mods. i did quests only to see the story as i prefer bonus xp from groups and social points.
SWTOR is as linear as you want it to be, like i said nothing is stopping you to go to other planets and kill, quest,grind,explore or whatever it is you like to do. if anything it adds a challenge and yes won't be as easy as your same level range content.
If you try my way you will have lot more fun in game and trust me due to bonus xp and social points you will easily find groups. just say you are starting heroic zone group and you will have team mates in no time.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Farming heroic areas doesnt really sound like much fun to me.
Different strokes for different folks. I like crafting and farming mats, and heroic areas give very nice mods. Didn't say everyone would like it but for me it is a good way to take a break from questing and storyline.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Good read and points. Thanks for this. Many will mindlessly follow the general linear path but you can always mix it up. Still though it is linear in the sense that at the end when will you ever go back to visit the rest of the universe? There is kind of an end point you know. No design systems in place or anything to really keep end game players coming back to all the worlds on a regular basis.
Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
I agree those are some nice ideas. However, i did read that old planets open up bonus quests at same level range. So if you are say lvl 40 you can revisit old planets to do those quests. I never went really high because i didn't want to spoil it all but whatever i have read so far, revisting old planets is a possbility.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Wrong just because they didn t let you test it doesn't mean it was not, I was in the beta for over a year, they delayed the game because the testers found fights to easy that was one reason it was delayed, we tested over and over until end game was where we wanted it, they have different modes for different type of players. The outlaw den was done properly, I mean there is some many elements you 2 week testers would of never had the time to see and bioware did thata on purpose so it did not spoil it for everyone, it was all TESTED and tested right.
Since you where in the 2 week tests only I see how you could feel that way seeing that your polly never made it past level 15 or 20. You have not even seen 1/10 of the game yet. So once you play it and all the elements , you will see.
Sorry scanned through first 5 pages and not much else
To the OP, i think the game will play as complete and polished, or it certainly did when i played beta weekend.
You will find no flaws as such, even if you are burned out on "theme park" MMOS you will get some enjoyment at least throughout hte levelling process.
Somone commented about adding mass content not a the endgame.
WOuldnt that be awesome if say you got to level 20 and then to get to level 21 took 100x the xp it did 19-20, the only way to speed through this was by completeing one of a selection of quests, or grinding for weeks. The quests could be to complete a simple operation, or specialise in a particularly unique craft ability quest chain. massive xp jums could be had every x number of levels or such like.
It would completely mess it up for the powerlevel crowd, but the rest of us would sit back and enjoy stuff a whole lot more, while learning more and more about the game as a whole.
Just a random thought.
Now if they added a sandboxey style system for classes such as say smuggler or bounty hunter to get random bounties/smuggle random goods across all planets even starter ones and maybe added some depth to treasure hunting taking players all over the planets, expanded crafting to include rare ores only gathered from random spots on certain early planets for end game players (not just average progression crafting nodes), etc. it would do a lot to break linearality(word?) and expand the game systems.
You don't really want a bunch of high level players stomping around in lower level areas. You want low level players in low level areas doing their thing without interference. "Being a theme park game" isn't a design defect, it's just a design.
Also "Linear progression" isn't a design defect either. However, a linear level path doesn't mean the game itself is linear. This ignores all the choices available on each planet (zone).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Nice yeah I haven't been far at all so I can't say for sure how much they have of that. I know they have some sandbox style ideas on their wall of crazy too so who knows where they go with development. I just hope they don't get too bogged down tacking on content to the end of the game with full voice over support etc. to implement them. They have a solid foundation what will be telling is what they do with their first expansion.
Quesh is a tiny planet and is not meant to level you the same level range that Hoth is. It is a 1 level planet that is maybe the size of korriban(2-3 small quest hubs). Go ahead and try to skip Hoth and do Quesh instead and then get back to me, because it simply won't happen. Unless Bioware has expanded Quesh by about 300% you are not going to get to the same levels gained as you would on Hoth, thus putting you behind on Belsavis.
What happened was that people were basically required to do every single quest and even most of the heroics to stay on level for the planets. Bioware decided to change that a bit and used the bonus series of those planets as "catch-ups". The last time I leveled to 50 I did all quests on every single planet(heroics included up until the end of Hoth) that weren't broken, most of the bonus quest series on Nar Shaddaa and alderaan(ald heroics were way overtuned), and I hit 50 just before the last hub on correllia where you are supposed to hit 50.
Just to clear this up. You're making the assertion that there are parrallel planets for leveling IE: Quesh instead of Hoth. This is not the case. While you might be able to get enough XP to skip a planet with warzones, space missions, etc, there are no parallel planets.
Agreed. Actually, since WoW was re-designed for Cata, leveling is pretty much designed to be a linear path so that they can gain the advantages of increased ability to tell a good story, and a very natural feeling progression for the player. It actually is better imo, because it avoids the moments you used to get in WoW where you would hit a level and be out of quests, and truly wonder where you should go next with no direction. That is generally a bad position to leave a player in (even sandbox mmo's need to be clear about what types of options the player can progress out to if they wish to).
Just to reiterate, some of those planets you listed are the exact same level range.
We're not talking about Act 1 planets here, which atm are rather linear, with the exception that you also have the option of returning to planets you have been to for higher level bonus quests.
For example....one I've already used in fact....both Hoth and Quesh offer lvl 35+ quests.....the mobs are the same levels, the quests are the same levels.
While leveling on Taris (31+35-ish) you might decide to go back to Nar Shaddaa for the bonus quests (31-34). Entirely optional. At level 40, you could also, if you chose, go back to Alderaan for the bonus quests there, should you feel like fighting antmen until you're ready to scream.
Once again, this information will be public knowledge in a month or two, so I'll just let time take it from here.
Quesh is a tiny planet and is not meant to level you the same level range that Hoth is. It is a 1 level planet that is maybe the size of korriban(2-3 small quest hubs). Go ahead and try to skip Hoth and do Quesh instead and then get back to me, because it simply won't happen. Unless Bioware has expanded Quesh by about 300% you are not going to get to the same levels gained as you would on Hoth, thus putting you behind on Belsavis.
What happened was that people were basically required to do every single quest and even most of the heroics to stay on level for the planets. Bioware decided to change that a bit and used the bonus series of those planets as "catch-ups". The last time I leveled to 50 I did all quests on every single planet(heroics included up until the end of Hoth) that weren't broken, most of the bonus quest series on Nar Shaddaa and alderaan(ald heroics were way overtuned), and I hit 50 just before the last hub on correllia where you are supposed to hit 50.
Just to clear this up. You're making the assertion that there are parrallel planets for leveling IE: Quesh instead of Hoth. This is not the case. While you might be able to get enough XP to skip a planet with warzones, space missions, etc, there are no parallel planets.
If players have to do every single quest on every available planet to reach max level, then it is going to be a problem. Adding content immediately after release, unless that content is already available, tested and ready to go doesn't usually go well. It is one of the things that nearly killed* Champions Online. There needs to be enough content for players to feel like they're choosing their path, even if the only choice is to skip some quests.
* Or killed it depending on how you look at it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Maybe for hte majority, but it is all too easy to click on a load of quest npcs and blindly follow the arrows on the map.
Isnt it fun to ask oyurself what to do next? go exploring and get stomped on by some ungodly creature? I like all that stuff