Originally posted by SethiusX Originally posted by lizardbones
Also "Linear progression" isn't a design defect either. However, a linear level path doesn't mean the game itself is linear. This ignores all the choices available on each planet (zone).
Agreed. Actually, since WoW was re-designed for Cata, leveling is pretty much designed to be a linear path so that they can gain the advantages of increased ability to tell a good story, and a very natural feeling progression for the player. It actually is better imo, because it avoids the moments you used to get in WoW where you would hit a level and be out of quests, and truly wonder where you should go next with no direction. That is generally a bad position to leave a player in (even sandbox mmo's need to be clear about what types of options the player can progress out to if they wish to).
Leveling in WoW up to the Cataclysm content (didn't get their on any toon) is pretty non-linear, but unconnected. You have choices of where to go next, and if you're not given the next step in a quest chain, you can pick up quests in your capital city that tell you which areas to go to for your level. However, it's not presented as a branching story line, it's presented as a choice based on your level. In general choice is good, but I'd prefer a branching story line, not just a branching leveling path. Hopefully, SWToR will present a branching story line.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Before I start , let me say I very much so like this game and will be playing at launch.
That said, I do see some potential flaws...
TOR's quest mechanic seems to place a great deal of weight on the the player's choices, but I haven't really seen where those choices necessarily affected the gameplay experience or direction. Granted, I did limited testing and can't speak on this empirically.
If this winds up being the case, I predict the game's longevity will be diminished.
WoW's strength (much like EvE's) was that it offered something to appeal to many of the different gamer archetypes.
Explorers, Killers, Socializers,and Achievers, etc all had something to chase after to varying degrees.
I don't yet know that TOR offers this....I would assert that it will be a shame if it does't though.
Variety in locale, environments, quest routes in the same level, gameplay, and allowing the players decisions to matter add an extra layer of depth to gameplay in my opinion.
We should be able to dismiss or drive off companions (perhaps even kill them off) . To me, that opens up other potential quest options (who wouldn't want to woo Mako back with a quest titled Baby, Come Back?). Or who wouldn't want to have the option of Saving Aric Jorgen from an Imp Star Destroyer because that's where you left him in order to not get captured yourself.
TL:DR
This game clearly has the ability to offer a great deal of nonlinear depth. It will be a shame if EA/BW doesn't deliver it and can hurt the game's long-term viability.
Looks to me like we have a pretty clear consensus on the OP's question... Whether that "major flaw" is big enough to send people running back to WoW or not, we'll have to wait and see.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Looks to me like we have a pretty clear consensus on the OP's question... Whether that "major flaw" is big enough to send people running back to WoW or not, we'll have to wait and see.
I wouldn't care for any consensus on these forums. This is the last place where Biowre would look for any reasonable feedback.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Looks to me like we have a pretty clear consensus on the OP's question... Whether that "major flaw" is big enough to send people running back to WoW or not, we'll have to wait and see.
I wouldn't care for ny consensus on these forums. This is the last place where Biowre would look for any reasonable feedback.
Maybe for hte majority, but it is all too easy to click on a load of quest npcs and blindly follow the arrows on the map.
Isnt it fun to ask oyurself what to do next? go exploring and get stomped on by some ungodly creature? I like all that stuff
I do love to explore (and I run around to every nook just to see what's there), but I love to explore on my terms, not because the game lacks direction and can't provide me something to do next. That would be poor design if the game just leaves me hanging, and that is why the top games strive so hard to not do that.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like to have options about what to do next, and that is where the sandbox genre is cool. Then I can ask myself what to do next, and with good design, I won't have to run off randomly in hopes that something does happen, they will be letting me know where these things are, but not forcing me into any. That was one of the problems for me with games like Darkfall... I know there is stuff out there, but where?
Let me preface this by saying that I think WoW is a great game.
I think you should probably just stay playing WoW forever. You like WoW, and you're now going to compare every single game you play to WoW. If it doesn't have an aspect that WoW does, you won't like it. If it does something different then WoW, you won't like it. You've defined the one game you like, and defined the multiple games you don't like. If you're happy with what you're playing, just keep playing it.
It takes a particular type of person to be able to try something new and simply appreciate it for what it has to offer. Most people just can't get over the differences from their first mmo, so they complain about how the new game has got it all wrong. Those people should never try anything new, it's just beyond their capabilities.
My first MMO was Everquest, and that is the one I compare to everything actually (and still play on P99). WoW is a great game, and of course every new themepark I play should have all the polished features of WoW (it is a precedent for themeparks now afterall). But after six years, I need a change, but I need something that is as well done as WoW, with innovation to boot (since it is 6 years later).
That sentence that I highlighted tells me that you would have a difficult time accepting a game, unless it's WoW v2.0
Good luck finding what you are looking for, irregardless.
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
Why doesn't it mean "not without regard?" Then the double negative wouldn't be without purpose. If it's being used in place of "regardless" though, then that's just plain old using the wrong word, whether "irregardless" is a word or not.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
Now, each MMO that has been released has been called the "WoW killer" at one time or another, but they have all failed to draw the playerbase permenantly away.
Rift: Rift was very polished from beginning to end, but unfortunately, I found it to be too bland and dry. I lost interest in the upper levels before hitting 50, due to the leveling process seeming very boring, mimicking the stale accept and grind quests of WoW. Aside from the Rifts (and to a lesser extent the soul system), which were fun at first.
So, what do you think, does TOR have a major flaw that will have players running back to WoW in a couple months?
Replace 'rifts' with 'voice over' and you have exactly the same set of problems that hurt Rift imo.
(Rift fans were extremely active and vocal prior to realease as well... they kind of evaporated around the 3-4 month mark)
Nice way to oversimplify things. Doesn't make it true, however. First of all, Rift doesn't have even a fraction of the player base that TOR will have due to the Star Wars IP and Bioware fans. That alone will keep this game as the #2 most popular MMO in the world. Even after the inevitalble population drop that so many themeparks suffer from these days, we're still going to have subscriber numbers in the millions, not hundreds of thousands.
Second, Rift didn't release with anywhere near the amount of content that TOR is releasing with. That's going to hold player retention for months after release while Bioware works on new content updates. When the first wave on endgame players got to level cap in Rift, they said, "That's it?" And many promptly left. TOR has some solid endgame to start off with at launch to deal with the powegamers. TOR is just a much deeper game than Rift was at launch.
Third, never underestimate TOR's ability to bring in brand-new MMO players. People that have no past experience with MMOs, but are willing to try the genre out because of the Star Wars IP, and because of the game's ability to play like a solid single person RPG if one desires. In other words, this game caters to the casual MMO player. This was WoW's secret, and the reason that it not only retained, but GREW so many years: The first MMO people play is generally the one they get attached to. We're going to see a lot of that with TOR.
You are seriously underestimating this game by comparing it to Rift.
Well, I wouldn't it has any major flaws currently, but some flaws that could turn into game-killers in terms of retention down the road. My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I don't want BW to make the same horrible mistake Trion did and design ALL their patches to cater to the endgame players. For a game so heavily invested in story, this would be a huge mistake, IMO. I'd like to see BW open up some other planets or extra zones within the current planets in order to give players more options for where to level as they are rolling their second and third characters on the same side. As of right now, that's really the only serious flaw in the game, and one that is easily fixed. The other stuff is nickel-and-dime stuff, and not game-breaking.
There is an overlap... SORTA...
There are pretty significant amounts of bonus missions on many planets. Now, I'm not talking about "Kill X mob" bonus missions; rather, some planets have whole areas worth of bonus mission content. On Taris, there is almost as much bonus mission zone area as there is in the story area.
So basically, you could run one character from 1-50 without touching the bonus content, and then the next one doing all bonus content, and have a significantly different experience.
Still, I do agree with you. While the character stories do a pretty good job of mixing up the experience, (better than I'd expect if I hadn't played the game) the idea of rolling a Smuggler, then rolling a Trooper right afterward has little appeal to me. I do plan on doing all the classes, but you can bet I'm gonna stagger them as best I can.
On the OP... I don't think there will be any MAJOR flaws like those you mentioned. What Cthulu mentions here could be a weak spot. Also, I think the classes play more similar to each other than you see in most MMO's. People that are all about the combat and don't care much about all the other stuff may get bored with this game quicker than others.
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
QFT! Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO!
That sentence that I highlighted tells me that you would have a difficult time accepting a game, unless it's WoW v2.0
Good luck finding what you are looking for, irregardless.
That sentence I highlighted tells me that you are judging me based on the fact that I liked WoW
Kidding, but seriously, WoW was great, no doubt, and why wouldn't we want future themeparks to have all the polish and standard features of it?
Actually, it's just the way you put it. WoW has a long standing lore. Many years have went in to the franchise lore before WoW even came out. They have had a lot of time to flesh out problems and polish the game, It's impossible for a developer to instantly create something similar. Games like Rift did a fair job but without much lore to work with, it's bound to feel a bit stale. SWTOR has a long base for lore so they have the best chance about it, but they don't get 7 years to polish it out before you make your judgement.
So are you going to be the instant critic that goes on and on about every flaw that SWTOR may have because it might be different then WoW?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
The one major flaw I see is also the game's strength: the abundance of cutscenes.
For me at least, the replayability of this game is non existant (unlike what's advertized) : there's no way I'm sitting through all that chit chat more than I have to so rerolling is out of the question.
Originally posted by IrishChai Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Ashlinde no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows: Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means without without regard.
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
QFT! Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO!
** Off Topic Post **
Proper use of the language you're communicating in is important. If for no other reason, it doesn't leave people who disagree with you an easy out to dismiss your opinions.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So are you going to be the instant critic that goes on and on about every flaw that SWTOR may have because it might be different then WoW?
No, of course not. I have yet to find a major flaw in TOR, and I hope it can create a unique experience different from WoW. I think there is nothing wrong with it using WoW's ideas though, most of them are very strong.
I only created this thread because I could not see a flaw in TOR, it seems to be an amazing game, which is great. I have several friends that I wish to convince to play TOR, but they have all tried many different MMO's as well and always have been drawn back to WoW, so they are very cautious now. For that reason I wanted to know what I might be setting them up for beyond the initial testing experiences that I was able to experience, so that if this game has a solid chance of actually breaking them away from WoW, they will get to experience that. And for the record, they, like me, want to break away from WoW and find something as polished but new.
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
QFT! Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO!
and im sick of people thinking that it is OK to use non-words and speak horrible broken english, and then expect people to understand what they are saying. it isnt a matter of this being a forum, it is a matter of you knowing how to speak your own language properly. or perhaps you like sounding ignorant?
in the case of slightly poor grammar or spelling, i am fine with it on forums. when people start using words that ARENT actual words, however, there is a problem. it is hard to take anyone serious, or believe anything they say, when they cant even use legitimate words. why would anyone expect a person that isnt educated enough to use proper words to possibly have an educated/worthwhile opinion?
The one major flaw I see is also the game's strength: the abundance of cutscenes.
For me at least, the replayability of this game is non existant (unlike what's advertized) : there's no way I'm sitting through all that chit chat more than I have to so rerolling is out of the question.
I personally enjoy the cut scene cinematic experience. Even when I play other MMO's, I read many of the quests just for the lore and story, so VO's and cut scenes seem like a gigantic step forward for me.
I have friends who play MMO's for the gear, or for the pvp, or whatever purpose. We have often had discussions about how to enjoy the game in a less competitive and more adventurous way. I like to enjoy games in a similar way that i enjoy movies or books or any other immersive art form, as an experience rather than as a competitive sport. It's a personal choice, I know, but one that has led to great satisfaction with many quality rpg's.
The one major flaw I see is also the game's strength: the abundance of cutscenes.
For me at least, the replayability of this game is non existant (unlike what's advertized) : there's no way I'm sitting through all that chit chat more than I have to so rerolling is out of the question.
I personally enjoy the cut scene cinematic experience. Even when I play other MMO's, I read many of the quests just for the lore and story, so VO's and cut scenes seem like a gigantic step forward for me.
I have friends who play MMO's for the gear, or for the pvp, or whatever purpose. We have often had discussions about how to enjoy the game in a less competitive and more adventurous way. I like to enjoy games in a similar way that i enjoy movies or books or any other immersive art form, as an experience rather than as a competitive sport. It's a personal choice, I know, but one that has led to great satisfaction with many quality rpg's.
sounds like he is one of those people that hits escape through all game cutscenes and skips the story in RPGs just to beat the game.
in otherwords, he isnt the demographic bioware made this game for, and thus doesnt matter.
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
QFT! Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO!
and im sick of people thinking that it is OK to use non-words and speak horrible broken english, and then expect people to understand what they are saying. it isnt a matter of this being a forum, it is a matter of you knowing how to speak your own language properly. or perhaps you like sounding ignorant?
in the case of slightly poor grammar or spelling, i am fine with it on forums. when people start using words that ARENT actual words, however, there is a problem. it is hard to take anyone serious, or believe anything they say, when they cant even use legitimate words. why would anyone expect a person that isnt educated enough to use proper words to possibly have an educated/worthwhile opinion?
well, irregardless of irregardless being an actual word or not, it got used. (notice the improper usage of got?)
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I feel like the irregardless debate sums up my feelings of SWTOR. The debate was about two words that make sense by themselves, combining them into a word that makes no sense and sounds stupid, and the word is defended and used by the mindless masses.
Well, I wouldn't it has any major flaws currently, but some flaws that could turn into game-killers in terms of retention down the road. My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap. There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.
I don't want BW to make the same horrible mistake Trion did and design ALL their patches to cater to the endgame players. For a game so heavily invested in story, this would be a huge mistake, IMO. I'd like to see BW open up some other planets or extra zones within the current planets in order to give players more options for where to level as they are rolling their second and third characters on the same side. As of right now, that's really the only serious flaw in the game, and one that is easily fixed. The other stuff is nickel-and-dime stuff, and not game-breaking.
There is an overlap... SORTA...
There are pretty significant amounts of bonus missions on many planets. Now, I'm not talking about "Kill X mob" bonus missions; rather, some planets have whole areas worth of bonus mission content. On Taris, there is almost as much bonus mission zone area as there is in the story area.
So basically, you could run one character from 1-50 without touching the bonus content, and then the next one doing all bonus content, and have a significantly different experience.
Still, I do agree with you. While the character stories do a pretty good job of mixing up the experience, (better than I'd expect if I hadn't played the game) the idea of rolling a Smuggler, then rolling a Trooper right afterward has little appeal to me. I do plan on doing all the classes, but you can bet I'm gonna stagger them as best I can.
On the OP... I don't think there will be any MAJOR flaws like those you mentioned. What Cthulu mentions here could be a weak spot. Also, I think the classes play more similar to each other than you see in most MMO's. People that are all about the combat and don't care much about all the other stuff may get bored with this game quicker than others.
Unless they changed the xp curve, possible since I didn't read all the more recent patch notes, the bonus quest hubs are all but required. You need to do a good bit of warzones, space missions, flashpoints, or heroics to make up for a bonus quest hub. The only two that are borderline not-required are the ones on Alderaan and Nar Shaddaa.
I feel like the irregardless debate sums up my feelings of SWTOR. The debate was about two words that make sense by themselves, combining them into a word that makes no sense and sounds stupid, and the word is defended and used by the mindless masses.
That is all.
The english language is pretty stupid, regardless of proper usage. That point however is moot. I am curious as to how that sums up your feelings of SWTOR.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I pre ordered it and cannot seem to pre load it. I pre ordered before all these announcements too. Is there some location I can download it from? On origin it doesn't have the download available but it's on my list of games
The flaw to me is the static world that is so heavily asset-driven. Rolling out content will be nightmare imo. All the VO work, cutscene work, etcetera... I don't know if they will be able to keep up with the demand for more content fast enough.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Comments
Leveling in WoW up to the Cataclysm content (didn't get their on any toon) is pretty non-linear, but unconnected. You have choices of where to go next, and if you're not given the next step in a quest chain, you can pick up quests in your capital city that tell you which areas to go to for your level. However, it's not presented as a branching story line, it's presented as a choice based on your level. In general choice is good, but I'd prefer a branching story line, not just a branching leveling path. Hopefully, SWToR will present a branching story line.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Before I start , let me say I very much so like this game and will be playing at launch.
That said, I do see some potential flaws...
TOR's quest mechanic seems to place a great deal of weight on the the player's choices, but I haven't really seen where those choices necessarily affected the gameplay experience or direction. Granted, I did limited testing and can't speak on this empirically.
If this winds up being the case, I predict the game's longevity will be diminished.
WoW's strength (much like EvE's) was that it offered something to appeal to many of the different gamer archetypes.
Explorers, Killers, Socializers,and Achievers, etc all had something to chase after to varying degrees.
I don't yet know that TOR offers this....I would assert that it will be a shame if it does't though.
Variety in locale, environments, quest routes in the same level, gameplay, and allowing the players decisions to matter add an extra layer of depth to gameplay in my opinion.
We should be able to dismiss or drive off companions (perhaps even kill them off) . To me, that opens up other potential quest options (who wouldn't want to woo Mako back with a quest titled Baby, Come Back?). Or who wouldn't want to have the option of Saving Aric Jorgen from an Imp Star Destroyer because that's where you left him in order to not get captured yourself.
TL:DR
This game clearly has the ability to offer a great deal of nonlinear depth. It will be a shame if EA/BW doesn't deliver it and can hurt the game's long-term viability.
Looks to me like we have a pretty clear consensus on the OP's question... Whether that "major flaw" is big enough to send people running back to WoW or not, we'll have to wait and see.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I wouldn't care for any consensus on these forums. This is the last place where Biowre would look for any reasonable feedback.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Very true and rightfully so
I do love to explore (and I run around to every nook just to see what's there), but I love to explore on my terms, not because the game lacks direction and can't provide me something to do next. That would be poor design if the game just leaves me hanging, and that is why the top games strive so hard to not do that.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like to have options about what to do next, and that is where the sandbox genre is cool. Then I can ask myself what to do next, and with good design, I won't have to run off randomly in hopes that something does happen, they will be letting me know where these things are, but not forcing me into any. That was one of the problems for me with games like Darkfall... I know there is stuff out there, but where?
no, it isnt, as AGAIN, a simple google search shows:
Irregardless is an informal term commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. Most dictionaries list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".
The prefix ir- (i-r) is a negative prefix, so if you add the prefix ir to a word that's already negative like regardless, you're making a double-negative word that literally means “without without regard.”
Now, on to dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word
Why doesn't it mean "not without regard?" Then the double negative wouldn't be without purpose. If it's being used in place of "regardless" though, then that's just plain old using the wrong word, whether "irregardless" is a word or not.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
What does this have to do with TOR? I think that a few people in here really have lost the story
Nice way to oversimplify things. Doesn't make it true, however. First of all, Rift doesn't have even a fraction of the player base that TOR will have due to the Star Wars IP and Bioware fans. That alone will keep this game as the #2 most popular MMO in the world. Even after the inevitalble population drop that so many themeparks suffer from these days, we're still going to have subscriber numbers in the millions, not hundreds of thousands.
Second, Rift didn't release with anywhere near the amount of content that TOR is releasing with. That's going to hold player retention for months after release while Bioware works on new content updates. When the first wave on endgame players got to level cap in Rift, they said, "That's it?" And many promptly left. TOR has some solid endgame to start off with at launch to deal with the powegamers. TOR is just a much deeper game than Rift was at launch.
Third, never underestimate TOR's ability to bring in brand-new MMO players. People that have no past experience with MMOs, but are willing to try the genre out because of the Star Wars IP, and because of the game's ability to play like a solid single person RPG if one desires. In other words, this game caters to the casual MMO player. This was WoW's secret, and the reason that it not only retained, but GREW so many years: The first MMO people play is generally the one they get attached to. We're going to see a lot of that with TOR.
You are seriously underestimating this game by comparing it to Rift.
There is an overlap... SORTA...
There are pretty significant amounts of bonus missions on many planets. Now, I'm not talking about "Kill X mob" bonus missions; rather, some planets have whole areas worth of bonus mission content. On Taris, there is almost as much bonus mission zone area as there is in the story area.
So basically, you could run one character from 1-50 without touching the bonus content, and then the next one doing all bonus content, and have a significantly different experience.
Still, I do agree with you. While the character stories do a pretty good job of mixing up the experience, (better than I'd expect if I hadn't played the game) the idea of rolling a Smuggler, then rolling a Trooper right afterward has little appeal to me. I do plan on doing all the classes, but you can bet I'm gonna stagger them as best I can.
On the OP... I don't think there will be any MAJOR flaws like those you mentioned. What Cthulu mentions here could be a weak spot. Also, I think the classes play more similar to each other than you see in most MMO's. People that are all about the combat and don't care much about all the other stuff may get bored with this game quicker than others.
QFT!
Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO! 
Actually, it's just the way you put it. WoW has a long standing lore. Many years have went in to the franchise lore before WoW even came out. They have had a lot of time to flesh out problems and polish the game, It's impossible for a developer to instantly create something similar. Games like Rift did a fair job but without much lore to work with, it's bound to feel a bit stale. SWTOR has a long base for lore so they have the best chance about it, but they don't get 7 years to polish it out before you make your judgement.
So are you going to be the instant critic that goes on and on about every flaw that SWTOR may have because it might be different then WoW?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
The one major flaw I see is also the game's strength: the abundance of cutscenes.
For me at least, the replayability of this game is non existant (unlike what's advertized) : there's no way I'm sitting through all that chit chat more than I have to so rerolling is out of the question.
QFT! Seriously, I'm so sick of seeing this crap in the forums and in the game. Video games and video game forums do not serve as English teaching lessons. All of you teachers and want-to-be teachers alike need to find the right place to teach when you get this urge and leave the teaching behind when you come back to GAMING forums. If you think you are smart enough to teach somebody else English, then you are smart enough to understand a person's intent within the context of the full post without changing the subject. This isn't forum scrabble. GTFO!
** Off Topic Post **
Proper use of the language you're communicating in is important. If for no other reason, it doesn't leave people who disagree with you an easy out to dismiss your opinions.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No, of course not. I have yet to find a major flaw in TOR, and I hope it can create a unique experience different from WoW. I think there is nothing wrong with it using WoW's ideas though, most of them are very strong.
I only created this thread because I could not see a flaw in TOR, it seems to be an amazing game, which is great. I have several friends that I wish to convince to play TOR, but they have all tried many different MMO's as well and always have been drawn back to WoW, so they are very cautious now. For that reason I wanted to know what I might be setting them up for beyond the initial testing experiences that I was able to experience, so that if this game has a solid chance of actually breaking them away from WoW, they will get to experience that. And for the record, they, like me, want to break away from WoW and find something as polished but new.
and im sick of people thinking that it is OK to use non-words and speak horrible broken english, and then expect people to understand what they are saying. it isnt a matter of this being a forum, it is a matter of you knowing how to speak your own language properly. or perhaps you like sounding ignorant?
in the case of slightly poor grammar or spelling, i am fine with it on forums. when people start using words that ARENT actual words, however, there is a problem. it is hard to take anyone serious, or believe anything they say, when they cant even use legitimate words. why would anyone expect a person that isnt educated enough to use proper words to possibly have an educated/worthwhile opinion?
I personally enjoy the cut scene cinematic experience. Even when I play other MMO's, I read many of the quests just for the lore and story, so VO's and cut scenes seem like a gigantic step forward for me.
I have friends who play MMO's for the gear, or for the pvp, or whatever purpose. We have often had discussions about how to enjoy the game in a less competitive and more adventurous way. I like to enjoy games in a similar way that i enjoy movies or books or any other immersive art form, as an experience rather than as a competitive sport. It's a personal choice, I know, but one that has led to great satisfaction with many quality rpg's.
sounds like he is one of those people that hits escape through all game cutscenes and skips the story in RPGs just to beat the game.
in otherwords, he isnt the demographic bioware made this game for, and thus doesnt matter.
well, irregardless of irregardless being an actual word or not, it got used. (notice the improper usage of got?)
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I feel like the irregardless debate sums up my feelings of SWTOR. The debate was about two words that make sense by themselves, combining them into a word that makes no sense and sounds stupid, and the word is defended and used by the mindless masses.
That is all.
Unless they changed the xp curve, possible since I didn't read all the more recent patch notes, the bonus quest hubs are all but required. You need to do a good bit of warzones, space missions, flashpoints, or heroics to make up for a bonus quest hub. The only two that are borderline not-required are the ones on Alderaan and Nar Shaddaa.
The english language is pretty stupid, regardless of proper usage. That point however is moot. I am curious as to how that sums up your feelings of SWTOR.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I pre ordered it and cannot seem to pre load it. I pre ordered before all these announcements too. Is there some location I can download it from? On origin it doesn't have the download available but it's on my list of games
The flaw to me is the static world that is so heavily asset-driven. Rolling out content will be nightmare imo. All the VO work, cutscene work, etcetera... I don't know if they will be able to keep up with the demand for more content fast enough.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.