Not just mistakes, theres cost involved, if its going to cost $xxx and the bosses want to spend that on some other part of the game then it stays as it is, useable just not that great.
I can live with it, only thing i really hate is the hair.
hair is probably the easiest thing to add a TON of options.. i feel they just really got lazy here...
Hmm yeah, c-creation isn't Swtor's best implemented feature it seems (along with the UI which they did promise to improve soonish).
But is it so bad that it severly impacts your gameplay experience?
It is when u see Fat Jedi with plastic hair and power armor, character models are worst so far, even SWG had beter character creation, there is no excuse for this.
Also u spend half the time watching in the face of your char and other ugly NPCs, guess BW target audience are kids around 12.
The only CCreator that I have ever liked was WoW's and LOTRO's.
I fucking hate sliders because I could never get my character looking cool or anything, even after hours of fine tuning.
This just proves how varied the MMO playerbase's taste is.
I thought WoW's character creation was one of the worst I've seen.
I agree LOTRO was not too bad although the male elves never looked right or were animated right to me.
Rift has an amazing middle ground customization IMO. Not too overboard ala CoH, but not underwhelming like WoW.
SWTOR's is doable, they just need more body types than annorexic, annorexic that just ate a sammich, Arnold Schwarzeneggar, Fat man for the guys. Oddly enough, I find the "fat" female option(the far right choice) the most normal looking of the bunch *shrug*.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
The only CCreator that I have ever liked was WoW's and LOTRO's.
I fucking hate sliders because I could never get my character looking cool or anything, even after hours of fine tuning.
This just proves how varied the MMO playerbase's taste is.
I thought WoW's character creation was one of the worst I've seen.
I agree LOTRO was not too bad although the male elves never looked right or were animated right to me.
Rift has an amazing middle ground customization IMO. Not too overboard ala CoH, but not underwhelming like WoW.
Anyone who says they prefer WoW's and LOTRO's is basically saying they don't like customization - they want it simple, they just want to jump in and play, without worrying they'll end up looking stupid, because they didn't mess with the creator enough.
WoW's was one of the most minimal, but it was also much more passable, way back when it launched. Now it's beyond minimal, compared to almost everything else on the market. I think people forgive it, not just because it's WoW, but because it's so dated.
LOTRO was just extremely bland. They wanted to make sure everyone looked like they could be just another lore-fitting random NPC. I wonder if that might have even had something to do with trying to make the Tolkein people happy, afraid that Middle Earth's integrity would be marred by too many crazy looking players running around in it.
Rift looked great, during creation, but I found that most of what you could change ended up being too subtle to notice, once in the game. People with totally different slider choices still looked like clones, if they were the same race, and chose the same hair.
So yeah, me, I might be on the picky side :P
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Too bad they could not figure a way to allow for player graphic mods, like in their DAO game.
People could have just modded the graphics to something that works better for them on their computer, while others would just see what ever they have set up --- sort of like the SOGA models from EQ2.
When will people understand that western devs are terrible at character creators, short of a game that went boom after a few months. It's sort of ironic really if you compare it to eastern MMO's.
Gimme my individualism. I don't want to be staring at 100 clones.
Of course, if someone is trying to quantify feedback and they don't work directly for BioWare, it's pure speculation. There's no other way we can know over all those months how much feedback they got about the character creator, or how many players gave positive or negative comments in that regard.
My personal opinion is that BW wouldn't ignore something like that given a 2-3 year beta to fix things, and that anyone complaining now that they didn't spend resources despite the beta testers is just spouting BS. To be perfectly honest, the character generator doesn't bother me in the least. I've played with (relatively) very few creators that were better, and with a lotof worse creators.
you can if you had been following the beta forums and reading what players have complained about the most.. UI was one of the biggest and so was character customization.. neither changed.. also pretty much every single professional beta review stated being somewhat dissapointed with UI and charater customization in one way or another
Okay... So quantify it for me then. Show me exactly how many testers there were total, and show me how many indivdual testers gave feedback on the character creator being poor.
I have another theory. You were concerned about the character creator, spent a lot of time seeking out those threads, and your mind translated the time and effort spent on the forums into a 'majority' of testers complaining about it all througout testing. Pointing me to the forums or to a media review with a snippet about it is not quantification. I could just as easily point you to forum where people think the earth is flat, and tell you that, based on those posts, a majority of people in the world believe in a flat earth.
My personal opinion is that BW wouldn't ignore something like that given a 2-3 year beta to fix things, and that anyone complaining now that they didn't spend resources despite the beta testers is just spouting BS.
That's not opinion, that's unquestioning faith in a company. Please. Anybody can make mistakes.
So, if I get you correctly, you believe that if a company were testing out a game and had one of the largest budgets of all time, and every single tester came back with the feedback of 'Wow feature X really needs a lot of work', that the head honchos would take that feedback and say, 'Ehh... fuck it. They'll get over it.'
Now, I'm not being specific to BioWare here. It's my opinion that any company would want to take action and improve something the future customers are vehemently asking for, given the time and resources to accomplish it.
It's the engine. That will be the big story down the road - when you hear the real scoop about the development of TOR.
Of course, Bioware has the talent to make exceptional character creation options... but they have other performance issues to deal with before they introduce all of those new variables.
It's highly likely on the "things to do" list but they do, as all developers have to draw a line under some things & say, okay that's enough time spent on that feature for now, we'll come back to that later & do more time on it post-release.
It's far from being a good character generator, but a lot in this game is "just good enough", it doesn't feel like an omission more like a tightly run production, but corners have been cut & this is one of them, I imagine a lot of other areas had constraints on them due to budget & resources too. And most of it will get attention eventually.
Man, couldn't agree with you more about the highlighted statement.
Of course, if someone is trying to quantify feedback and they don't work directly for BioWare, it's pure speculation. There's no other way we can know over all those months how much feedback they got about the character creator, or how many players gave positive or negative comments in that regard.
My personal opinion is that BW wouldn't ignore something like that given a 2-3 year beta to fix things, and that anyone complaining now that they didn't spend resources despite the beta testers is just spouting BS. To be perfectly honest, the character generator doesn't bother me in the least. I've played with (relatively) very few creators that were better, and with a lotof worse creators.
you can if you had been following the beta forums and reading what players have complained about the most.. UI was one of the biggest and so was character customization.. neither changed.. also pretty much every single professional beta review stated being somewhat dissapointed with UI and charater customization in one way or another
Okay... So quantify it for me then. Show me exactly how many testers there were total, and show me how many indivdual testers gave feedback on the character creator being poor.
I have another theory. You were concerned about the character creator, spent a lot of time seeking out those threads, and your mind translated the time and effort spent on the forums into a 'majority' of testers complaining about it all througout testing. Pointing me to the forums or to a media review with a snippet about it is not quantification. I could just as easily point you to forum where people think the earth is flat, and tell you that, based on those posts, a majority of people in the world believe in a flat earth.
Actually dude - character creation was one of the biggest talked about things in beta and on the forums, whether you like it or not. No one has to prove anything to you, you've clearly already taken a stance that you're right and everyone who has a different opinion on this matter is wrong. Almost every day there was a new thread about it somewhere on the forums and the long standing threads on it were HUGE. Keep on just thinking we're making it up though if that helps you sleep at night. If they saw the feedback on the UI, they saw it on the character creator because it was just as prevalent.
When will people understand that western devs are terrible at character creators, short of a game that went boom after a few months. It's sort of ironic really if you compare it to eastern MMO's.
Gimme my individualism. I don't want to be staring at 100 clones.
EVE Online and APB are western made mmos right?
EVE has characters now? Damn. Last time I played you had tiny little faces with like 4 options.
Don't forget about Champions Online... if there was one thing to remember about that game, it was how awesome character creation was/is.
When will people understand that western devs are terrible at character creators, short of a game that went boom after a few months. It's sort of ironic really if you compare it to eastern MMO's.
Gimme my individualism. I don't want to be staring at 100 clones.
EVE Online and APB are western made mmos right?
EVE has characters now? Damn. Last time I played you had tiny little faces with like 4 options.
Don't forget about Champions Online... if there was one thing to remember about that game, it was how awesome character creation was/is.
and 80% of COs character creation is locked now. You either pay to unlock costumes or pay 15 dollars a month and get access to them.
I don't think character creation is important to their target audience, not trolling I'm being for real. How many raiding guilds give a flip about character creation, thats what helmets are for.
I don't think character creation is important to their target audience, not trolling I'm being for real. How many raiding guilds give a flip about character creation, thats what helmets are for.
I thought their target audience were people that like RPG games with the long stories.
Anyway, what did Bioware spent all the money on? There is so much stuff lacking from the game that should be standard at this point in time it looks like they spend the money on building every single aspect of the game from the ground up. Like, even the computers and the programs they used to make the game.
Or did that money motly go to Lucasarts for the lincese and that's why this MMO has some many barebones aspects.
Of course, if someone is trying to quantify feedback and they don't work directly for BioWare, it's pure speculation. There's no other way we can know over all those months how much feedback they got about the character creator, or how many players gave positive or negative comments in that regard.
My personal opinion is that BW wouldn't ignore something like that given a 2-3 year beta to fix things, and that anyone complaining now that they didn't spend resources despite the beta testers is just spouting BS. To be perfectly honest, the character generator doesn't bother me in the least. I've played with (relatively) very few creators that were better, and with a lotof worse creators.
you can if you had been following the beta forums and reading what players have complained about the most.. UI was one of the biggest and so was character customization.. neither changed.. also pretty much every single professional beta review stated being somewhat dissapointed with UI and charater customization in one way or another
Okay... So quantify it for me then. Show me exactly how many testers there were total, and show me how many indivdual testers gave feedback on the character creator being poor.
I have another theory. You were concerned about the character creator, spent a lot of time seeking out those threads, and your mind translated the time and effort spent on the forums into a 'majority' of testers complaining about it all througout testing. Pointing me to the forums or to a media review with a snippet about it is not quantification. I could just as easily point you to forum where people think the earth is flat, and tell you that, based on those posts, a majority of people in the world believe in a flat earth.
Actually dude - character creation was one of the biggest talked about things in beta and on the forums, whether you like it or not. No one has to prove anything to you, you've clearly already taken a stance that you're right and everyone who has a different opinion on this matter is wrong. Almost every day there was a new thread about it somewhere on the forums and the long standing threads on it were HUGE. Keep on just thinking we're making it up though if that helps you sleep at night. If they saw the feedback on the UI, they saw it on the character creator because it was just as prevalent.
excatly this was talked about every day.. people want to have a unique character.. this is not a new concept.. Back when Wow came out no game really had a great creator so that one was accepted but now with all the superhero MMOs, Aion, hell even rift although limited was better. For me it wouldn't be as big of a deal if all the choices you had were nice but you have maybe 3 female faces out of all of them that aren't just horrendously ugly not to mention only a couple decent hair styles... it's a dissapointment for many many people.
The character creator is mediocre at best. But I could have told you in advance they wouldn't improve it till launch, because honestly, have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions, new raids or new zones. It's an MMO after all, you want your players to keep playing as much and long as possible...
And as it is not abysmally bad but more like so-so, people will accept it as what it is in no time. Problem solved (for BW).
The character creator is mediocre at best. But I could have told you in advance they wouldn't improve it till launch, because honestly, have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions, new raids or new zones. It's an MMO after all, you want your players to keep playing as much and long as possible...
And as it is not abysmally bad but more like so-so, people will accept it as what it is in no time. Problem solved (for BW).
M
As I always say. Yet everytime you mention any shortcomming of the game to fanboys , during beta.
have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions
Why yes, I have. (Points at CoX)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
As I always say. Yet everytime you mention any shortcomming of the game to fanboys , during beta.
They shout : Its still beta !!! It will change!!!
never since MMOs started have I ever played one in the open beta or stress test phase that wasn't the final product less few bugs here and there but every single game you hear this stuff amazing how blinded some people are.. anyway at least theres a few female chars that look decent so its not a total loss. I still can't believe AA isn't in the options yet(another thing people said would for sure be on at the pre-release).. although the INI tweak still works fine...
I look at it this way, if I can't make a character I like and can be happy with...then there is a problem. I managed to create 3 characters that I really like and am satisfied with, so all in all I really don't care about something that I use for maybe 15 minutes tops and may never use again.
I really don't see why they need to spend anymore time on something you will use only in the beginning and then won't even matter when you are wearing full armor and can't see those individual features anyway.
Sure, there could have been more options and variety, but once I make my characters thats it. I'm not going to start over just so I can wear a different hair style or because I want a less skinny guy. If there are no options to change your face, hair etc. on already made characters then it will have no effect on me since by the time it comes out most of my characters will already be made and lvl 50.
There are so many other things that just have a much greater priority, guild options and UI customization come first to mind. We can give feedback all day until our fingers are numb and bleeding but in the end if the developer doesn't want to follow it, then you will have to do what you can with what you got.
Hmm yeah, c-creation isn't Swtor's best implemented feature it seems (along with the UI which they did promise to improve soonish).
But is it so bad that it severly impacts your gameplay experience?
I hope they will address it soon enough.
I'm almost tempted to redo my character. For my cyborg, there was no facial hair option that didn't include the implants stuff and whenever my character talks, the implants jiggle around, clip through the face and kind of hover slightly over the face. It's really irritating to look at, which puts a damper on the cool cutscenes and interactions this game has.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions
Maybe the same thing will happen with SWTOR down the line, but are you seriously going to give up a maxed out character so you can make a more "personally appealing" character?
Comments
hair is probably the easiest thing to add a TON of options.. i feel they just really got lazy here...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
It is when u see Fat Jedi with plastic hair and power armor, character models are worst so far, even SWG had beter character creation, there is no excuse for this.
Also u spend half the time watching in the face of your char and other ugly NPCs, guess BW target audience are kids around 12.
This just proves how varied the MMO playerbase's taste is.
I thought WoW's character creation was one of the worst I've seen.
I agree LOTRO was not too bad although the male elves never looked right or were animated right to me.
Rift has an amazing middle ground customization IMO. Not too overboard ala CoH, but not underwhelming like WoW.
SWTOR's is doable, they just need more body types than annorexic, annorexic that just ate a sammich, Arnold Schwarzeneggar, Fat man for the guys. Oddly enough, I find the "fat" female option(the far right choice) the most normal looking of the bunch *shrug*.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Anyone who says they prefer WoW's and LOTRO's is basically saying they don't like customization - they want it simple, they just want to jump in and play, without worrying they'll end up looking stupid, because they didn't mess with the creator enough.
WoW's was one of the most minimal, but it was also much more passable, way back when it launched. Now it's beyond minimal, compared to almost everything else on the market. I think people forgive it, not just because it's WoW, but because it's so dated.
LOTRO was just extremely bland. They wanted to make sure everyone looked like they could be just another lore-fitting random NPC. I wonder if that might have even had something to do with trying to make the Tolkein people happy, afraid that Middle Earth's integrity would be marred by too many crazy looking players running around in it.
Rift looked great, during creation, but I found that most of what you could change ended up being too subtle to notice, once in the game. People with totally different slider choices still looked like clones, if they were the same race, and chose the same hair.
So yeah, me, I might be on the picky side :P
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Too bad they could not figure a way to allow for player graphic mods, like in their DAO game.
People could have just modded the graphics to something that works better for them on their computer, while others would just see what ever they have set up --- sort of like the SOGA models from EQ2.
EVE Online and APB are western made mmos right?
Okay... So quantify it for me then. Show me exactly how many testers there were total, and show me how many indivdual testers gave feedback on the character creator being poor.
I have another theory. You were concerned about the character creator, spent a lot of time seeking out those threads, and your mind translated the time and effort spent on the forums into a 'majority' of testers complaining about it all througout testing. Pointing me to the forums or to a media review with a snippet about it is not quantification. I could just as easily point you to forum where people think the earth is flat, and tell you that, based on those posts, a majority of people in the world believe in a flat earth.
So, if I get you correctly, you believe that if a company were testing out a game and had one of the largest budgets of all time, and every single tester came back with the feedback of 'Wow feature X really needs a lot of work', that the head honchos would take that feedback and say, 'Ehh... fuck it. They'll get over it.'
Now, I'm not being specific to BioWare here. It's my opinion that any company would want to take action and improve something the future customers are vehemently asking for, given the time and resources to accomplish it.
It's the engine. That will be the big story down the road - when you hear the real scoop about the development of TOR.
Of course, Bioware has the talent to make exceptional character creation options... but they have other performance issues to deal with before they introduce all of those new variables.
Man, couldn't agree with you more about the highlighted statement.
Actually dude - character creation was one of the biggest talked about things in beta and on the forums, whether you like it or not. No one has to prove anything to you, you've clearly already taken a stance that you're right and everyone who has a different opinion on this matter is wrong. Almost every day there was a new thread about it somewhere on the forums and the long standing threads on it were HUGE. Keep on just thinking we're making it up though if that helps you sleep at night. If they saw the feedback on the UI, they saw it on the character creator because it was just as prevalent.
EVE has characters now? Damn. Last time I played you had tiny little faces with like 4 options.
Don't forget about Champions Online... if there was one thing to remember about that game, it was how awesome character creation was/is.
OH NO!!!!!!! You mean i can't change my jaw or cheek bone size what am I ever gonna do!!!!!????????? Thats right play the game and have fun.
and 80% of COs character creation is locked now. You either pay to unlock costumes or pay 15 dollars a month and get access to them.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
I don't think character creation is important to their target audience, not trolling I'm being for real. How many raiding guilds give a flip about character creation, thats what helmets are for.
I thought their target audience were people that like RPG games with the long stories.
Anyway, what did Bioware spent all the money on? There is so much stuff lacking from the game that should be standard at this point in time it looks like they spend the money on building every single aspect of the game from the ground up. Like, even the computers and the programs they used to make the game.
Or did that money motly go to Lucasarts for the lincese and that's why this MMO has some many barebones aspects.
WoW Sidequests
excatly this was talked about every day.. people want to have a unique character.. this is not a new concept.. Back when Wow came out no game really had a great creator so that one was accepted but now with all the superhero MMOs, Aion, hell even rift although limited was better. For me it wouldn't be as big of a deal if all the choices you had were nice but you have maybe 3 female faces out of all of them that aren't just horrendously ugly not to mention only a couple decent hair styles... it's a dissapointment for many many people.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
The character creator is mediocre at best. But I could have told you in advance they wouldn't improve it till launch, because honestly, have you ever seen a major char-gen revamp in a game post-beta-release (except EvE where it was a necessity because they introduced actual avatar models)? - No, because to 95% of the devs this is a feature you don't waste a huge lot of energy on because it doesn't stretch playtime like new factions, new raids or new zones. It's an MMO after all, you want your players to keep playing as much and long as possible...
And as it is not abysmally bad but more like so-so, people will accept it as what it is in no time. Problem solved (for BW).
M
As I always say. Yet everytime you mention any shortcomming of the game to fanboys , during beta.
They shout : Its still beta !!! It will change!!!
Why yes, I have. (Points at CoX)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
never since MMOs started have I ever played one in the open beta or stress test phase that wasn't the final product less few bugs here and there but every single game you hear this stuff amazing how blinded some people are.. anyway at least theres a few female chars that look decent so its not a total loss. I still can't believe AA isn't in the options yet(another thing people said would for sure be on at the pre-release).. although the INI tweak still works fine...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I look at it this way, if I can't make a character I like and can be happy with...then there is a problem. I managed to create 3 characters that I really like and am satisfied with, so all in all I really don't care about something that I use for maybe 15 minutes tops and may never use again.
I really don't see why they need to spend anymore time on something you will use only in the beginning and then won't even matter when you are wearing full armor and can't see those individual features anyway.
Sure, there could have been more options and variety, but once I make my characters thats it. I'm not going to start over just so I can wear a different hair style or because I want a less skinny guy. If there are no options to change your face, hair etc. on already made characters then it will have no effect on me since by the time it comes out most of my characters will already be made and lvl 50.
There are so many other things that just have a much greater priority, guild options and UI customization come first to mind. We can give feedback all day until our fingers are numb and bleeding but in the end if the developer doesn't want to follow it, then you will have to do what you can with what you got.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
I'm almost tempted to redo my character. For my cyborg, there was no facial hair option that didn't include the implants stuff and whenever my character talks, the implants jiggle around, clip through the face and kind of hover slightly over the face. It's really irritating to look at, which puts a damper on the cool cutscenes and interactions this game has.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Me, too. (Points at EVE)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Maybe the same thing will happen with SWTOR down the line, but are you seriously going to give up a maxed out character so you can make a more "personally appealing" character?
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!