..and that's not even getting into the issue of how they didn't add any of the much less human looking alien types that were playable way back when SWG launched.
Didn't they say its because they couldn't write stories about less-humanoid aliens because they would not be relatable to the players?
The first time I read that I was seriously just thinking that it was lazy, not a true limitation, but pure unadultrated lazieness.
No that is in fact exactly why all of the player characters speak Basic and are humanoid with "standard" human facial features and body proportions.
Hell, it'd be EASIER to allow more alien playable characters that don't/can't speak Basic and just use the "random alien language" for all of their speach.
Much easier and faster then thousands of hours of dialogue for the players.
Bioware took the hard approach.
But the technical aspect was not the argument of Bioware. The argument from biowares writer was that they can't write aliens to be relatable.
If he said "sorry guys, we only have this many animation-slots to not make the instalation 100gb big" we wouldn't have the discussion.
Right now you are speculating on a tangential other issue, that -might- (or not) have occured, but that was not what the Bioware lead writer argued if asked about less-humanoid races.
His argument reeks of laziness.
I call BS. It's not laziness at all.
It's a design decision, just like he said, to make the player characters "relateable" due to the nature of the story focus of this game.
Don't like it, go play SWG. Oh wait...
Your arguements are hollow.
You know what would happen if they made non-humanoid playable characters without good facial features for emotional display and/or without speaking "Basic"?
The story would lose most of it's "grip" and emotional resonance.
How do you know?
But hey, if you think it'd be fun to read subtitles and not understand the language and not see any emotion in the character's faces, more power to you.
Wrex disagrees. Grunt disagrees. Mordin disagrees. Garrus disagrees and hes the goddamn batman.
Fuck, Tali disagrees, and we never saw her face.
Go buy some anime movies.
Don't give me this bullshit of they become emotionless.
Bioware wrote shittons of stories about less-human aliens that were incredible engaging.
I don't understand why people really need a customization system to rival some fo the super mmo's. Whats the point? I understand you want to look different, but really all those intricate facial details are going to be hidden when your in First Person, or staring at your characters behind. Thats failing to mention every other option including your face can be covered with a Helm or Hood.
Why waste the time and money on further developing a system for customization we all know the majority of players won't even notice past the creation screen? This is an actual question, I would like to know why. I understand some of you will be hiding helms and hoods, and constantly staring at your character zoomed in, but I wager the majority of gamers won't. Is it for the VO's you want to appear unique?
/shrug seems like a waste of time and money to me, glad they didn't devote much to it.
1. Immersion - seeing everyone run around looking the same hurts immersion ( something swtor has problems with due to its on rails themepark design )
2. Swtor has quest dialog where you see your character - in the quest dialogues, you see your character ( face closeup ) all the time, so in SWTOR one could argue it is even MORE important to have customization options that rival the best MMOs.
Now lets be clear the character customization in SWTOR is not as good as:
eq2/vanguard/swg/Aion/Coh to name a few 2 of which came out in 2003-2004.
I don't understand why people really need a customization system to rival some fo the super mmo's. Whats the point? I understand you want to look different, but really all those intricate facial details are going to be hidden when your in First Person, or staring at your characters behind. Thats failing to mention every other option including your face can be covered with a Helm or Hood.
Why waste the time and money on further developing a system for customization we all know the majority of players won't even notice past the creation screen? This is an actual question, I would like to know why. I understand some of you will be hiding helms and hoods, and constantly staring at your character zoomed in, but I wager the majority of gamers won't. Is it for the VO's you want to appear unique?
/shrug seems like a waste of time and money to me, glad they didn't devote much to it.
1. Immersion - seeing everyone run around looking the same hurts immersion ( something swtor has problems with due to its on rails themepark design )
2. Swtor has quest dialog where you see your character - in the quest dialogues, you see your character ( face closeup ) all the time, so in SWTOR one could argue it is even MORE important to have customization options that rival the best MMOs.
Now lets be clear the character customization in SWTOR is not as good as:
eq2/vanguard/swg/Aion/Coh to name a few 2 of which came out in 2003-2004.
It is weak and certainly a dissapointment
your argument is weak and a dissappointment....
i didnt even get that crazy with my Sith (bald, yellow eyes, just a few horns on chin, one scar) and i have yet to see another red-skin that looks like me.
The character creation is pretty bad and was dissapointing, but I'm sure we've all seen A LOT worse (WoW and LOTRO come to mind). At least there are different body types to choose from in tor.
Originally posted by Ashlinde Originally posted by allegria
Originally posted by Redemp
I don't understand why people really need a customization system to rival some fo the super mmo's. Whats the point? I understand you want to look different, but really all those intricate facial details are going to be hidden when your in First Person, or staring at your characters behind. Thats failing to mention every other option including your face can be covered with a Helm or Hood. Why waste the time and money on further developing a system for customization we all know the majority of players won't even notice past the creation screen? This is an actual question, I would like to know why. I understand some of you will be hiding helms and hoods, and constantly staring at your character zoomed in, but I wager the majority of gamers won't. Is it for the VO's you want to appear unique? /shrug seems like a waste of time and money to me, glad they didn't devote much to it.
1. Immersion - seeing everyone run around looking the same hurts immersion ( something swtor has problems with due to its on rails themepark design ) 2. Swtor has quest dialog where you see your character - in the quest dialogues, you see your character ( face closeup ) all the time, so in SWTOR one could argue it is even MORE important to have customization options that rival the best MMOs. Now lets be clear the character customization in SWTOR is not as good as: eq2/vanguard/swg/Aion/Coh to name a few 2 of which came out in 2003-2004. It is weak and certainly a dissapointment your argument is weak and a dissappointment.... i didnt even get that crazy with my Sith (bald, yellow eyes, just a few horns on chin, one scar) and i have yet to see another red-skin that looks like me. I had to chuckle at this. You posted nothing to refute his points. I'm pretty sure you never even got up close and personal with anyone outside your clique in this game. So tell me, how did you check to see if anyone looks similar to you. Did you run up to ever red looking sith and check? That would seem odd as hell to me if I knew someone wasdoing that.
Hmm yeah, c-creation isn't Swtor's best implemented feature it seems (along with the UI which they did promise to improve soonish).
But is it so bad that it severly impacts your gameplay experience?
I hope they will address it soon enough.
It's a shame really. A game that promotes the importance of the storytelling and role-role truly need some more customizing options. However, I'm sure that in some future patches they will solve this problem.
Ya, but everyones got the same story so it makes sense lol.
You do realize that character creation impacts the entire game, from equipment, to animations, to navigation, et al? If you are expecting sweeping changes to the character creation, you're in for a big let down. It may seem like a cosmetic change to you, but it's like creating entirely new characters... that's why MOST games limit this aspect of a game so that they can focus more on the game itself rather than just what the characters look like. Some of the best character creation games are also some of the worst games to play. Which would you rather have, a cool character or a great game?
You do realize that character creation impacts the entire game, from equipment, to animations, to navigation, et al? If you are expecting sweeping changes to the character creation, you're in for a big let down. It may seem like a cosmetic change to you, but it's like creating entirely new characters... that's why MOST games limit this aspect of a game so that they can focus more on the game itself rather than just what the characters look like. Some of the best character creation games are also some of the worst games to play. Which would you rather have, a cool character or a great game?
Thats right, this game is about looting and raiding, things like character creation or having races other than human or human clones were not a priority. It appears they were also not that worried about NPCs or environmentals either. Just try to get big shoulder pads and a huge funny looking helmet so you can stand out. Happy gear grinding.
You do realize that character creation impacts the entire game, from equipment, to animations, to navigation, et al? If you are expecting sweeping changes to the character creation, you're in for a big let down. It may seem like a cosmetic change to you, but it's like creating entirely new characters... that's why MOST games limit this aspect of a game so that they can focus more on the game itself rather than just what the characters look like. Some of the best character creation games are also some of the worst games to play. Which would you rather have, a cool character or a great game?
Thats right, this game is about looting and raiding, things like character creation or having races other than human or human clones were not a priority. It appears they were also not that worried about NPCs or environmentals either. Just try to get big shoulder pads and a huge funny looking helmet so you can stand out. Happy gear grinding.
THIS.
If anyone think Swtor will be anything else than queuing and waiting to do an instance, then he's sadly mistaken.
How could nobody said this? Another complexion (between 2nd and 3rd) should make the deal. Yeah, I find other areas lacking and really need Rodians, but really need a tall, not bulky body type. And the fat one... It's not only fat, it's more like a John Goodman complexion!
Maybe the same thing will happen with SWTOR down the line, but are you seriously going to give up a maxed out character so you can make a more "personally appealing" character?
i would yes.. although usually they give option for current character makeover when they add things like that later on in the game
The character creation screen is very important to me, particularly in the newer MMOs that are going to focus on story like TOR and GW2. Hopefully BioArts' limitations even after these so-called requests for a better creator, do not affect their long term goals and more importantly, that fans who want the changes implimented don't have to wait over 7 years for it *cough*...
Here's the deal, SWTOR was hyped as the 2nd coming, SW plus Bioware = best MMO of all time, especially in quality with so much money being pumped into it.
You log in for your first time, excited to FINALLY be playing, then you hit character creation, - your very first impression of the real game,..................... and you're hit in the face with a giant dose of mediocrity. This game wasn't supposed to be about mediocrity, or features that "will do". It was supposed to be awesome! For some it's more disappointing than others, but I don't think I've seen a single thread that talks about character creation being awesome or even great.
First impressions are everything, it sets a tone. And there was no lack of beta tester feedback on the character creation, can guarantee you that, both on the forums and in game through surveys. And what's the next thing you encounter right when you get in the game? A completely uncustomizable UI, not even being able to move windows around - oi vey!
Aw, really? They still haven't changed character creation? I played during beta, but can't justify shelling out full-price for something that's still essentially in early development. That's not to say that I believe the game to be in some kind of alpha state, but these games take time to get polished. Character creation was certainly the Achilles' heel, in my opinion. Disappointed to find out they haven't done anything with it thus far.
Here's the deal, SWTOR was hyped as the 2nd coming, SW plus Bioware = best MMO of all time, especially in quality with so much money being pumped into it.
Yeah well... massive amounts of money are pumped into hollow projects all the time, it's called Hollywood. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed with GW2/TERA/etc. (in terms of character creation as that is the subject here), I expect to enjoy them, but you can expect lots of things that never happen. Hopefully some people learned that lesson here.
Comments
Don't give me this bullshit of they become emotionless.
Bioware wrote shittons of stories about less-human aliens that were incredible engaging.
Look at Mass Effect.
1. Immersion - seeing everyone run around looking the same hurts immersion ( something swtor has problems with due to its on rails themepark design )
2. Swtor has quest dialog where you see your character - in the quest dialogues, you see your character ( face closeup ) all the time, so in SWTOR one could argue it is even MORE important to have customization options that rival the best MMOs.
Now lets be clear the character customization in SWTOR is not as good as:
eq2/vanguard/swg/Aion/Coh to name a few 2 of which came out in 2003-2004.
It is weak and certainly a dissapointment
your argument is weak and a dissappointment....
i didnt even get that crazy with my Sith (bald, yellow eyes, just a few horns on chin, one scar) and i have yet to see another red-skin that looks like me.
The character creation is pretty bad and was dissapointing, but I'm sure we've all seen A LOT worse (WoW and LOTRO come to mind). At least there are different body types to choose from in tor.
It's not a game breaker imo.
1. Immersion - seeing everyone run around looking the same hurts immersion ( something swtor has problems with due to its on rails themepark design )
2. Swtor has quest dialog where you see your character - in the quest dialogues, you see your character ( face closeup ) all the time, so in SWTOR one could argue it is even MORE important to have customization options that rival the best MMOs.
Now lets be clear the character customization in SWTOR is not as good as:
eq2/vanguard/swg/Aion/Coh to name a few 2 of which came out in 2003-2004.
It is weak and certainly a dissapointment
your argument is weak and a dissappointment....
i didnt even get that crazy with my Sith (bald, yellow eyes, just a few horns on chin, one scar) and i have yet to see another red-skin that looks like me.
I had to chuckle at this. You posted nothing to refute his points. I'm pretty sure you never even got up close and personal with anyone outside your clique in this game. So tell me, how did you check to see if anyone looks similar to you. Did you run up to ever red looking sith and check? That would seem odd as hell to me if I knew someone wasdoing that.
BOOYAKA!
Ya, but everyones got the same story so it makes sense lol.
You do realize that character creation impacts the entire game, from equipment, to animations, to navigation, et al? If you are expecting sweeping changes to the character creation, you're in for a big let down. It may seem like a cosmetic change to you, but it's like creating entirely new characters... that's why MOST games limit this aspect of a game so that they can focus more on the game itself rather than just what the characters look like. Some of the best character creation games are also some of the worst games to play. Which would you rather have, a cool character or a great game?
Thats right, this game is about looting and raiding, things like character creation or having races other than human or human clones were not a priority. It appears they were also not that worried about NPCs or environmentals either. Just try to get big shoulder pads and a huge funny looking helmet so you can stand out. Happy gear grinding.
THIS.
If anyone think Swtor will be anything else than queuing and waiting to do an instance, then he's sadly mistaken.
Hello WoW with VO and lightsabers
i would yes.. although usually they give option for current character makeover when they add things like that later on in the game
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
The only thing I don't like about this game is the character creation. Everythine else I love.
The character creation screen is very important to me, particularly in the newer MMOs that are going to focus on story like TOR and GW2. Hopefully BioArts' limitations even after these so-called requests for a better creator, do not affect their long term goals and more importantly, that fans who want the changes implimented don't have to wait over 7 years for it *cough*...
Here's the deal, SWTOR was hyped as the 2nd coming, SW plus Bioware = best MMO of all time, especially in quality with so much money being pumped into it.
You log in for your first time, excited to FINALLY be playing, then you hit character creation, - your very first impression of the real game,..................... and you're hit in the face with a giant dose of mediocrity. This game wasn't supposed to be about mediocrity, or features that "will do". It was supposed to be awesome! For some it's more disappointing than others, but I don't think I've seen a single thread that talks about character creation being awesome or even great.
First impressions are everything, it sets a tone. And there was no lack of beta tester feedback on the character creation, can guarantee you that, both on the forums and in game through surveys. And what's the next thing you encounter right when you get in the game? A completely uncustomizable UI, not even being able to move windows around - oi vey!
Aw, really? They still haven't changed character creation? I played during beta, but can't justify shelling out full-price for something that's still essentially in early development. That's not to say that I believe the game to be in some kind of alpha state, but these games take time to get polished. Character creation was certainly the Achilles' heel, in my opinion. Disappointed to find out they haven't done anything with it thus far.
edit:
Can't is spelled C-A-N-'-T.
Yeah well... massive amounts of money are pumped into hollow projects all the time, it's called Hollywood. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed with GW2/TERA/etc. (in terms of character creation as that is the subject here), I expect to enjoy them, but you can expect lots of things that never happen. Hopefully some people learned that lesson here.