you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
Yea, i know what you mean.
sure the boss was insanely hard, but then again i welcomed the challenge, that i have not seen in many MMO's in the past. Even tho it was insane as i said..
you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
I just gave up on making sugestion for SWTOR, I'm always greeted with raving fanboys without a coherent thought. Helps if you don't mention WoW by comparison.
Guess they should have used beta testers instead of fanboys for this game
The force using classes are far from gimped, one is slightly weaker than other classes similar to it but by no means gimp. The rest are some of the best classes in the game. Anyone expecting to play any class in TOR and it be a 1, 2, 3 class is going to be disappointed.
______
Jedi Knight / Sith Juggernaut - weak compared to the other tanks but still an enjoyable class. buff incoming in a patch
Jedi Sentinal / Sith Marauder - starts out squishy but gets incredibly strong by level 50, not much less defense than a juggernaut but much much more damage, one of the highest DPS classes currently in game. Not a class for the lazy as you have to keep track of quite a lot with this one but played welll it can outshine almost anything.
Jedi Consular / Sith Sorcerer - healz, bubbles, good damage, great CC abilities, easy to play, the newbie class. Class is solid all the way through the game.
Jedi Shadow / Sith Assassin - starts out strong even seeing 3-4k crits in the teens during pvp, from mid to max level it becomes an unstoppable killing machine. If any class was to be considered OP then this one would be it. Such a fun class to play.
Agree with OP, this was a concern in beta as well.
The raving fanboy crowd, who had no idea what was talked about could not stand for "trash talk" and jumped in on the argument.
Wereas those of us who actually had a character past 30, ( and it gets worse ), agreed that perhaps difficulty was ramped up a tad to high.
Not for an MMO player with a couple of years under his belt, it is possible to adapt, overcome most encounter using your entire tool box.
But, I just do not see the WoW crowd doing that, some of them of course.
I kind of liked it to be honest, at times, hated it at times, I did not at all feel like a hero sneeking around mobs because any encounter, any trash group with 2 silvers in them, could actually send me to the morgue if they caught me unprepared.
There was a sence of achievment though once the job was done!
And its not like this is a 150 MILLION dollar production or anything, so they can freely adopt the "like it or beat it" approach.
Wich is nice.
Benedict
33 Commando
Chuundar EU
PS. I would very much like to see the trashtalking people in this thread come back once they have a char in the mid 30's and stand by what they said, if they can be honest about it, allthough I realise that the most powerful tool in the fanboy toolbox is the ability to lie to yourself, please try? DS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but I can't empathize with you. Mmorpgs are too easy now adays. Don't get me wrong, I'm not closed minded. I'm very open to new ideas, new ways of doing things. But I do miss the old school EverQuest feel. I'm not a fan boy, maybe I'm a bit biased as it was the first mmorpg I played. But when you actually killed a raid encounter, or completed a quest in that game, you felt like you actually accomplished something.
I just don't feel that anymore with these games. I played wow till the end of 4.2, did all the heroic firelands content etc. I can't really speak for swtor as I'm buying my copy later today to check it out. But if it's more difficult than wow then it's taking a step in the right direction in my opinion.
Agree with OP, this was a concern in beta as well.
The raving fanboy crowd, who had no idea what was talked about could not stand for "trash talk" and jumped in on the argument.
Wereas those of us who actually had a character past 30, ( and it gets worse ), agreed that perhaps difficulty was ramped up a tad to high.
Not for an MMO player with a couple of years under his belt, it is possible to adapt, overcome most encounter using your entire tool box.
But, I just do not see the WoW crowd doing that, some of them of course.
I kind of liked it to be honest, at times, hated it at times, I did not at all feel like a hero sneeking around mobs because any encounter, any trash group with 2 silvers in them, could actually send me to the morgue if they caught me unprepared.
There was a sence of achievment though once the job was done!
And its not like this is a 150 MILLION dollar production or anything, so they can freely adopt the "like it or beat it" approach.
Wich is nice.
Benedict
33 Commando
Chuundar EU
PS. I would very much like to see the trashtalking people in this thread come back once they have a char in the mid 30's and stand by what they said, if they can be honest about it, allthough I realise that the most powerful tool in the fanboy toolbox is the ability to lie to yourself, please try? DS.
It's certainly starting to eat at me that's for sure. I played EverQuest, but those days are behind me. I don't mind an unusual challenge here and there, but it's too much effort when I'm wiping every other quest because BioWare's always matching me against overpowing opponents. I finally manage to kill the final boss of Act 1, but I just wiped again in an attempt to kill the first mobs for my next class quest -- ironically more elites. I'm not real sure what BioWare's fascination is with forcing solo players to adapt to killing group mobs, but it's driving me away from the game. I'm really not even sure I can get help with the class quests as you constantly enter phases that say only one jedi knight allowed.. Granted, my skills need upgrading, but I spent almost all my money on buying repairs after wiping to that last boss 45 times, and purchasing skills in this game is crazy expensive.
you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
lol. Sure WoW was successful. But let's take a look at why. They sold out to cater to every type of player. Whether it be hardcore or casual. What do hardcore players that devote their time and energy to learning to play their class better get over the casual players? A small item statistic increase.
Sure WoW is successful, but is that good news for the mmorpg community? No, it's not. Because future mmorpgs to compete with it have to conform to the type of audience that wow appeals to now. This means more of the repetitive garbage that wow saunters around.
Wow is very successful, no problems admitting that. Is it a good game? I'd say that it _was_ and had a lot of potential. But that's all a matter of opinion. WoW being successful should have nothing to do with you liking it or not, you should like it because you personally enjoy it.
Technically speaking, if a quest is rated as solo then it should be possible to complete it solo without a superhuman effort. Otherwise it should be flagged as a +1 or +2 or whatever.
If you're going to use the same labelling on your tin as other games do, then the contents of the tin better be the same. Else add a health warning
I'm not saying quests should all be easier, just that they need to be clearly marked. Otherwise it will generate a storm of pissing and moaning which probably WILL lead to them being dumbed-down across the board... well, that will probably happen later anyway, but getting everyone riled about it at launch just forces it to happen sooner.
Agree with OP, this was a concern in beta as well.
The raving fanboy crowd, who had no idea what was talked about could not stand for "trash talk" and jumped in on the argument.
Wereas those of us who actually had a character past 30, ( and it gets worse ), agreed that perhaps difficulty was ramped up a tad to high.
Not for an MMO player with a couple of years under his belt, it is possible to adapt, overcome most encounter using your entire tool box.
But, I just do not see the WoW crowd doing that, some of them of course.
I kind of liked it to be honest, at times, hated it at times, I did not at all feel like a hero sneeking around mobs because any encounter, any trash group with 2 silvers in them, could actually send me to the morgue if they caught me unprepared.
There was a sence of achievment though once the job was done!
And its not like this is a 150 MILLION dollar production or anything, so they can freely adopt the "like it or beat it" approach.
Wich is nice.
Benedict
33 Commando
Chuundar EU
PS. I would very much like to see the trashtalking people in this thread come back once they have a char in the mid 30's and stand by what they said, if they can be honest about it, allthough I realise that the most powerful tool in the fanboy toolbox is the ability to lie to yourself, please try? DS.
It's certainly starting to eat at me that's for sure. I played EverQuest, but those days are behind me. I don't mind an unusual challenge here and there, but it's too much effort when I'm wiping every other quest because BioWare's always matching me against overpowing opponents. I finally manage to kill the final boss of Act 1, but I just wiped again in an attempt to kill the first mobs for my next class quest -- ironically more elites. I'm not real sure what BioWare's fascination is with forcing solo players to adapt to killing group mobs, but it's driving me away from the game. I'm really not even sure I can get help with the class quests as you constantly enter phases that say only one jedi knight allowed.. Granted, my skills need upgrading, but I spent almost all my money on buying repairs after wiping to that last boss 45 times, and purchasing skills in this game is crazy expensive.
I see what you're saying. I'm sure there are things that need fine tuned, like I said, I haven't played it yet so it may be something that's ridiculously hard. Or it may even be something that is supposed to be soloable and is almost impossible. In those particular cases I could sympathize with you. But I do like the sound of a challenge.
About all I can say... get better gear and L2P. Game isn't hard... characters become relatively less uber as they go along - but c'mon... don't play like a moron.
you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
lol. Sure WoW was successful. But let's take a look at why. They sold out to cater to every type of player. Whether it be hardcore or casual. What do hardcore players that devote their time and energy to learning to play their class better get over the casual players? A small item statistic increase.
Sure WoW is successful, but is that good news for the mmorpg community? No, it's not. Because future mmorpgs to compete with it have to conform to the type of audience that wow appeals to now. This means more of the repetitive garbage that wow saunters around.
Wow is very successful, no problems admitting that. Is it a good game? I'd say that it _was_ and had a lot of potential. But that's all a matter of opinion. WoW being successful should have nothing to do with you liking it or not, you should like it because you personally enjoy it.
It's a video game. What do you want for "devoting your time and energy to learning to play their class better?" Real life money? Sometimes I think we, as gamers, need to take a step back and realize that this is all just a time wasting pastime and not relevant to our lives whatsoever. I've never played a game that flat out did not reward players for playing their classes well, but we shouldn't expect the reward for playing our classes at 100% efficiency to be something as drastic as, for example, level progression. At least if BioWare thinks that's the case, they should get rid of gear repair fees and that timer on the medical probe droid. It's the least they could do since I can't just re-load a save every time I die like I would in KOTOR.
Fun is numerous things to numerous people. WoW is THE mainstream MMORPG, and because of that, it caters to all types of players. Smaller titles like EVE Online and Darkfall cater exclusively to niche markets, and I doubt many casual gamers have much interest in those games. SW:TOR on the other hand draws interest from a huge crowd: former WoW players, BioWare RPG fanatics, Star Wars fans, and players from other MMORPGs. It would do well to follow the WoW model and attempt to please the largest amount of people possible. That will go a long way to determining its future success I think. In my opinion, SW:TOR is a VERY good game except for this crippling issue, and even if I don't settle on the Jedi Sentinel for endgame purposes, I'm very much engrossed in its story and at least want to see it through to its end.
There's a reason why WoW reached millions of subs...
...And now they are loosing them all because the game has been dumbed down far to much, around 800k are leaving per quarter. They already need server merges for some realms because they have become empty.
The "heroic" quests are for groups, you don't even need to do them as there are enough normal quests to level on. There are also "bonus" quests which are soloable but harder, you don't need those either.
But really, if your finding TOR to hard then you need to go back to wow...
I find this crazy, but after playing my Jedi Sentinel to level 32, I have to wonder if that's the case. Leveling was fine from 1-25 or so, and then I started noticing I'd wipe about once or twice on every elite boss mob in my story quests. As I progressed, instead of getting stronger, I got weaker. Several boss mobs on Tatooine killed me upwards of 5 times before I finally got lucky and finished them off. On Alderaan, I kept getting solo quests that required me to kill numerous elites, and I absolutely could not take on almost all of the same-level elites. Now that I hit 32, I embarked on my class mission, and it took me about 5 tries to kill one of the elites, 7 to kill the other, and on the final boss of Act 1, I have been working on the boss for an hour and a half and 25k in repair bills, medpacks, and stims later, I find the final boss of Act 1 to be unkillable. I guess I'm going to have to quit and redo the entire instance at a later date because I'm now out of money for repairs and all my gear is broken.
I played a Hunter in WoW to level 85 and topped the DPS parse in several endgame raids, but apparently I lack the skill to get past the last boss of act 1 of the Jedi Knight story and I lack the skill to effectively play the Jedi Sentinel. I have to blow every cooldown, perform my rotation to perfection, and use every stim and medpack possible to stand a chance against these elites, and one missed interrupt can cost me up to a third of my lifebar, and in the case of the final boss of act one, even doing all that still isn't enough to beat them. I don't mind a challenge, but this is absolutely rediculous. At this point, I'm pretty certain I should stop now because the Sentinel is only going to get worse, and God only knows what's going to be expected of me in Act II. I should have went with my intuition and rolled a BH like I did in beta, but after reading the Darth Revan novel I felt compelled to roll a jedi. Silly me because I just wasted 5 days leveling a character to 33, and to be honest, I'm so jaded and spurned at the moment, I don't even know if I want to pick up my pre-order tomorrow.
I have not quite progressed this far yet, but is your level above, same, or below the mobs you're fighting and that boss?
I've been playing a Jedi Sage solo, and I've done soo many Warzones that I am way over leveled for my class story (nearly 10 levels).
I also got a Commando that I am leveling with a friend. We are both several levels above our class quest, and with two people its pretty easy.
Both of my characters are above their usable level in crew skills, and my Commando's armor from crew skills is the freaking best (and it definitely shows)
There's a reason why WoW reached millions of subs...
...And now they are loosing them all because the game has been dumbed down far to much, around 800k are leaving per quarter. They already need server merges for some realms because they have become empty.
The "heroic" quests are for groups, you don't even need to do them as there are enough normal quests to level on.
Heh, I don't think WoW's loosing subs because it has been dumbed down too much. If anything, WoTLK would have been the downfall of WoW years ago, but ironically, WoTLK saw the game's biggest spike in growth. If anything, the drop offs began when idiotic ghost crawler and his hard on for vanilla WoW completely changed the design philosophy for the game, causing players to run into brick walls when attempting heroics and raids. Subsequent nerfs pissed off hardcore players, and at the end of the day, Blizzard ended up pleasing pretty much no one with Cata. In addition, you have plenty of folks who have all just been there and done that. People are getting tired of WoW, and WoW fans deserve another game that caters to their style of play. if BioWare truly wants SW:TOR to succeed they won't listen to the anti-WoW crowd. While they're extremely vocal, they're in the minority, and they all seem to want different things. There's no pleasing them, and any attempt to please them sure won't please the people who actually enjoy WoW.
Outside of that:
Read my post. I'm not even sure the words "heroic quests" came out of my mouth. Far from it. My problem is the power of the mobs you face through solo questing.
Skyrim is a video game. Halo is a video game. Even some parts of WoW and most of LotRO is just a "Interactive Video Game".
SWTOR plays like a MMORPG. A real one. A MMORPG where you will need to work with other Players to complete some of the missions. Yes I was in beta, I experienced what SWTOR was and is and it's refreshing to see a new MMORPG get released that requires Players to work together sometimes. That's how MMORPGs are supposed to be designed.
SWTOR is not a Solo RPG. SWTOR is a MMORPG. It has certain portions that can be soloed, some that can not.
MMOS sometimes can be solo only. MMORPGs are for solo AND group content, not just solo content. There is a difference between the two. If you haven't figured that out by now, or if you refuse to accept it, then that is not the fault of the Developers or other Players. The fault lies with you choosing the wrong gaming genre for the kind of game you prefer.
Stop trying to change MMORPGs into solo video games.
I agree to an extent that the Class end of Act quests need to be lowered in difficulty just a bit. I played both the level 25 Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight Class quests and they both are very difficult but the problem with the Jedi Knight quest is it's just 1 mob where as the sith warrior it's multiple mobs so you can slowly pick them off as if you die they don't respawn plus the vats you can break open that gives you HOTs doesn't hurt either. The Jedi Knight one however will regain full health if you die so if you don't know how to play your class your going to need to group up. I'm not going to go into details but the "Off Tank" skill tree is extremely helpful in getting past most of these Solo quests.
you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
lol. Sure WoW was successful. But let's take a look at why. They sold out to cater to every type of player. Whether it be hardcore or casual. What do hardcore players that devote their time and energy to learning to play their class better get over the casual players? A small item statistic increase.
Sure WoW is successful, but is that good news for the mmorpg community? No, it's not. Because future mmorpgs to compete with it have to conform to the type of audience that wow appeals to now. This means more of the repetitive garbage that wow saunters around.
Wow is very successful, no problems admitting that. Is it a good game? I'd say that it _was_ and had a lot of potential. But that's all a matter of opinion. WoW being successful should have nothing to do with you liking it or not, you should like it because you personally enjoy it.
It's a video game. What do you want for "devoting your time and energy to learning to play their class better?" Real life money? Sometimes I think we, as gamers, need to take a step back and realize that this is all just a time wasting pastime and not relevant to our lives whatsoever. I've never played a game that flat out did not reward players for playing their classes well, but we shouldn't expect the reward for playing our classes correctly to be something as drastic as, for example, level progression. Fun is numerous things to numerous people. WoW is THE mainstream MMORPG, and because of that, it caters to all types of players. Smaller titles like EVE Online and Darkfall cater exclusively to niche markets, and I doubt many casual gamers have much interest in those games. SW:TOR on the other hand draws interest from a huge crowd: former WoW players, BioWare RPG fanatics, Star Wars fans, and players from other MMORPGs. It would do well to follow the WoW model and attempt to please the largest amount of people possible. That will go a long way to determining its future success I think. In my opinion, SW:TOR is a VERY good game except for this crippling issue, and even if I don't settle on the Jedi Sentinel for endgame purposes, I'm very much engrossed in its story and at least want to see it through to its end.
Honestly? I expect a reward that sets you apart from the casual players. Judging from your post, you're one of the casual players, and by that I mean no disrespect. I don't think we'll ever agree on each other's points of view, but that's alright.
I agree that playing the class correctly shouldn't directly reward level progression, as progression is a learning process, even through failure you're supposed to learn and advance. I wasn't trying to say that it should.
If this game truly is just WoW with a Star Wars overhaul, I won't be subscribed past the 1 month mark.
you think that was hard? my Act 1 boss was insane, had to defeat him 3 times, each time i was 1 hit away from death and he kept getting stronger and stronger.. i think i wiped like.. 20 times on it..
That's all I'm saying. There's a fine line between challenging and a story like this.
Keep the "LOL EZ MODE GB2WOW" rhetoric out of here people. You (general sense) hate WoW so much, but despite yourself you cannot deny the success of that game which has proven those of you screaming at the top of your lungs to be an extremely vocal minority.
lol. Sure WoW was successful. But let's take a look at why. They sold out to cater to every type of player. Whether it be hardcore or casual. What do hardcore players that devote their time and energy to learning to play their class better get over the casual players? A small item statistic increase.
Sure WoW is successful, but is that good news for the mmorpg community? No, it's not. Because future mmorpgs to compete with it have to conform to the type of audience that wow appeals to now. This means more of the repetitive garbage that wow saunters around.
Wow is very successful, no problems admitting that. Is it a good game? I'd say that it _was_ and had a lot of potential. But that's all a matter of opinion. WoW being successful should have nothing to do with you liking it or not, you should like it because you personally enjoy it.
Honestly? I expect a reward that sets you apart from the casual players. Judging from your post, you're one of the casual players, and by that I mean no disrespect. I don't think we'll ever agree on each other's points of view, but that's alright.
I agree that playing the class correctly shouldn't directly reward level progression, as progression is a learning process, even through failure you're supposed to learn and advance. I wasn't trying to say that it was.
If this game truly is just WoW with a Star Wars overhaul, I won't be subscribed past the 1 month mark.
Doesn't better gear do enough to set you apart from casual players? You sound as if you don't think that's enough. I doubt any casual non-raider is ever going to contribute as much to a random PUG as you could with said gear.
Is it something visible that you want -- something that when you walk into town people KNOW and respect that you're a hardcore player who knows everything about his class?
This makes me wonder what has happened to mmo's that prevents people from grouping up. The fact that the quest may not say "requires more than one person" or the fact that people have become so socially inept that the act of asking someone for help makes them cower in a corner. Regardless this is a sign that mmo's are turning in online singleplayer rpg's where interaction only occurs in instanced pvp/dungeons. When will a true multiplayer experience come around again?
Skyrim is a video game. Halo is a video game. Even some parts of WoW and most of LotRO is just a "Interactive Video Game".
SWTOR plays like a MMORPG. A real one. A MMORPG where you will need to work with other Players to complete some of the missions. Yes I was in beta, I experienced what SWTOR was and is and it's refreshing to see a new MMORPG get released that requires Players to work together sometimes. That's how MMORPGs are supposed to be designed.
SWTOR is not a Solo RPG. SWTOR is a MMORPG. It has certain portions that can be soloed, some that can not.
MMOS sometimes can be solo only. MMORPGs are for solo AND group content, not just solo content. There is a difference between the two. If you haven't figured that out by now, or if you refuse to accept it, then that is not the fault of the Developers or other Players. The fault lies with you choosing the wrong gaming genre for the kind of game you prefer.
Stop trying to change MMORPGs into solo video games.
There are two sides to that coin.
First, your point. The MMORPG is for playing with others. Blah blah blah anti-solo blah blah blah.
But the other side is that there are a great many people who want to play a game in an interactive, persistant, living world and not be forced into social situations to get beyond abritrary roadblocks. I, for one, love MMORPGs for the sense that there is always more to do than in solo games. Not to mention that the more popular MMOs usually have more content available to the player.
There are times I want to solo and times I want to group. Normal progression shouldn't have "choke points" that force group play. Extra or side content, not a problem. But main class storyline quests? Thats just bad design.
There's a reason why WoW reached millions of subs...
...And now they are loosing them all because the game has been dumbed down far to much, around 800k are leaving per quarter. They already need server merges for some realms because they have become empty.
The "heroic" quests are for groups, you don't even need to do them as there are enough normal quests to level on. There are also "bonus" quests which are soloable but harder, you don't need those either.
But really, if your finding TOR to hard then you need to go back to wow...
I would agree, wow was dumbed down A LOT. Mostly because the casual players couldn't grasp certain concepts, again they don't care about the players so long as they're putting money in their pocket. They want to put all players on each other's level so that the casual players will have a chance too. Great idea? Sure if it's money you want.
SuperXero89, you keep defending WoW in a manner that makes me think that you don't care about what you want or what the players want, that you're happy to see that WoW has only done for them what was in their best interest and profited off of it.
This makes me wonder what has happened to mmo's that prevents people from grouping up. The fact that the quest may not say "requires more than one person" or the fact that people have become so socially inept that the act of asking someone for help makes them cower in a corner. Regardless this is a sign that mmo's are turning in online singleplayer rpg's where interaction only occurs in instanced pvp/dungeons. When will a true multiplayer experience come around again?
When People stop acting like they suffer from an anti-social disorder and group up again. It's all up to the Players themselves really.
Oh... and for the record.... I actually DO suffer from anti-social disorders and anxiety, paranoia, depression... so I can say the above with experience. I have more issues with playing a MMORPG than most other People will ever have.
And I of all people can and do group up in MMORPGs, so I know it is indeed very possible.
Comments
Yea, i know what you mean.
sure the boss was insanely hard, but then again i welcomed the challenge, that i have not seen in many MMO's in the past. Even tho it was insane as i said..
I just gave up on making sugestion for SWTOR, I'm always greeted with raving fanboys without a coherent thought. Helps if you don't mention WoW by comparison.
Guess they should have used beta testers instead of fanboys for this game
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Ah.. people complaining about their classes being to weak.. goes hand in hand with a mmo
The force using classes are far from gimped, one is slightly weaker than other classes similar to it but by no means gimp. The rest are some of the best classes in the game. Anyone expecting to play any class in TOR and it be a 1, 2, 3 class is going to be disappointed.
______
Jedi Knight / Sith Juggernaut - weak compared to the other tanks but still an enjoyable class. buff incoming in a patch
Jedi Sentinal / Sith Marauder - starts out squishy but gets incredibly strong by level 50, not much less defense than a juggernaut but much much more damage, one of the highest DPS classes currently in game. Not a class for the lazy as you have to keep track of quite a lot with this one but played welll it can outshine almost anything.
Jedi Consular / Sith Sorcerer - healz, bubbles, good damage, great CC abilities, easy to play, the newbie class. Class is solid all the way through the game.
Jedi Shadow / Sith Assassin - starts out strong even seeing 3-4k crits in the teens during pvp, from mid to max level it becomes an unstoppable killing machine. If any class was to be considered OP then this one would be it. Such a fun class to play.
Agree with OP, this was a concern in beta as well.
The raving fanboy crowd, who had no idea what was talked about could not stand for "trash talk" and jumped in on the argument.
Wereas those of us who actually had a character past 30, ( and it gets worse ), agreed that perhaps difficulty was ramped up a tad to high.
Not for an MMO player with a couple of years under his belt, it is possible to adapt, overcome most encounter using your entire tool box.
But, I just do not see the WoW crowd doing that, some of them of course.
I kind of liked it to be honest, at times, hated it at times, I did not at all feel like a hero sneeking around mobs because any encounter, any trash group with 2 silvers in them, could actually send me to the morgue if they caught me unprepared.
There was a sence of achievment though once the job was done!
And its not like this is a 150 MILLION dollar production or anything, so they can freely adopt the "like it or beat it" approach.
Wich is nice.
Benedict
33 Commando
Chuundar EU
PS. I would very much like to see the trashtalking people in this thread come back once they have a char in the mid 30's and stand by what they said, if they can be honest about it, allthough I realise that the most powerful tool in the fanboy toolbox is the ability to lie to yourself, please try? DS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but I can't empathize with you. Mmorpgs are too easy now adays. Don't get me wrong, I'm not closed minded. I'm very open to new ideas, new ways of doing things. But I do miss the old school EverQuest feel. I'm not a fan boy, maybe I'm a bit biased as it was the first mmorpg I played. But when you actually killed a raid encounter, or completed a quest in that game, you felt like you actually accomplished something.
I just don't feel that anymore with these games. I played wow till the end of 4.2, did all the heroic firelands content etc. I can't really speak for swtor as I'm buying my copy later today to check it out. But if it's more difficult than wow then it's taking a step in the right direction in my opinion.
It's certainly starting to eat at me that's for sure. I played EverQuest, but those days are behind me. I don't mind an unusual challenge here and there, but it's too much effort when I'm wiping every other quest because BioWare's always matching me against overpowing opponents. I finally manage to kill the final boss of Act 1, but I just wiped again in an attempt to kill the first mobs for my next class quest -- ironically more elites. I'm not real sure what BioWare's fascination is with forcing solo players to adapt to killing group mobs, but it's driving me away from the game. I'm really not even sure I can get help with the class quests as you constantly enter phases that say only one jedi knight allowed.. Granted, my skills need upgrading, but I spent almost all my money on buying repairs after wiping to that last boss 45 times, and purchasing skills in this game is crazy expensive.
lol. Sure WoW was successful. But let's take a look at why. They sold out to cater to every type of player. Whether it be hardcore or casual. What do hardcore players that devote their time and energy to learning to play their class better get over the casual players? A small item statistic increase.
Sure WoW is successful, but is that good news for the mmorpg community? No, it's not. Because future mmorpgs to compete with it have to conform to the type of audience that wow appeals to now. This means more of the repetitive garbage that wow saunters around.
Wow is very successful, no problems admitting that. Is it a good game? I'd say that it _was_ and had a lot of potential. But that's all a matter of opinion. WoW being successful should have nothing to do with you liking it or not, you should like it because you personally enjoy it.
Technically speaking, if a quest is rated as solo then it should be possible to complete it solo without a superhuman effort. Otherwise it should be flagged as a +1 or +2 or whatever.
If you're going to use the same labelling on your tin as other games do, then the contents of the tin better be the same. Else add a health warning
I'm not saying quests should all be easier, just that they need to be clearly marked. Otherwise it will generate a storm of pissing and moaning which probably WILL lead to them being dumbed-down across the board... well, that will probably happen later anyway, but getting everyone riled about it at launch just forces it to happen sooner.
I see what you're saying. I'm sure there are things that need fine tuned, like I said, I haven't played it yet so it may be something that's ridiculously hard. Or it may even be something that is supposed to be soloable and is almost impossible. In those particular cases I could sympathize with you. But I do like the sound of a challenge.
You are using your companion, right?
About all I can say... get better gear and L2P. Game isn't hard... characters become relatively less uber as they go along - but c'mon... don't play like a moron.
It's a video game. What do you want for "devoting your time and energy to learning to play their class better?" Real life money? Sometimes I think we, as gamers, need to take a step back and realize that this is all just a time wasting pastime and not relevant to our lives whatsoever. I've never played a game that flat out did not reward players for playing their classes well, but we shouldn't expect the reward for playing our classes at 100% efficiency to be something as drastic as, for example, level progression. At least if BioWare thinks that's the case, they should get rid of gear repair fees and that timer on the medical probe droid. It's the least they could do since I can't just re-load a save every time I die like I would in KOTOR.
Fun is numerous things to numerous people. WoW is THE mainstream MMORPG, and because of that, it caters to all types of players. Smaller titles like EVE Online and Darkfall cater exclusively to niche markets, and I doubt many casual gamers have much interest in those games. SW:TOR on the other hand draws interest from a huge crowd: former WoW players, BioWare RPG fanatics, Star Wars fans, and players from other MMORPGs. It would do well to follow the WoW model and attempt to please the largest amount of people possible. That will go a long way to determining its future success I think. In my opinion, SW:TOR is a VERY good game except for this crippling issue, and even if I don't settle on the Jedi Sentinel for endgame purposes, I'm very much engrossed in its story and at least want to see it through to its end.
...And now they are loosing them all because the game has been dumbed down far to much, around 800k are leaving per quarter. They already need server merges for some realms because they have become empty.
The "heroic" quests are for groups, you don't even need to do them as there are enough normal quests to level on. There are also "bonus" quests which are soloable but harder, you don't need those either.
But really, if your finding TOR to hard then you need to go back to wow...
I have not quite progressed this far yet, but is your level above, same, or below the mobs you're fighting and that boss?
I've been playing a Jedi Sage solo, and I've done soo many Warzones that I am way over leveled for my class story (nearly 10 levels).
I also got a Commando that I am leveling with a friend. We are both several levels above our class quest, and with two people its pretty easy.
Both of my characters are above their usable level in crew skills, and my Commando's armor from crew skills is the freaking best (and it definitely shows)
Heh, I don't think WoW's loosing subs because it has been dumbed down too much. If anything, WoTLK would have been the downfall of WoW years ago, but ironically, WoTLK saw the game's biggest spike in growth. If anything, the drop offs began when idiotic ghost crawler and his hard on for vanilla WoW completely changed the design philosophy for the game, causing players to run into brick walls when attempting heroics and raids. Subsequent nerfs pissed off hardcore players, and at the end of the day, Blizzard ended up pleasing pretty much no one with Cata. In addition, you have plenty of folks who have all just been there and done that. People are getting tired of WoW, and WoW fans deserve another game that caters to their style of play. if BioWare truly wants SW:TOR to succeed they won't listen to the anti-WoW crowd. While they're extremely vocal, they're in the minority, and they all seem to want different things. There's no pleasing them, and any attempt to please them sure won't please the people who actually enjoy WoW.
Outside of that:
Read my post. I'm not even sure the words "heroic quests" came out of my mouth. Far from it. My problem is the power of the mobs you face through solo questing.
No.
Skyrim is a video game. Halo is a video game. Even some parts of WoW and most of LotRO is just a "Interactive Video Game".
SWTOR plays like a MMORPG. A real one. A MMORPG where you will need to work with other Players to complete some of the missions. Yes I was in beta, I experienced what SWTOR was and is and it's refreshing to see a new MMORPG get released that requires Players to work together sometimes. That's how MMORPGs are supposed to be designed.
SWTOR is not a Solo RPG. SWTOR is a MMORPG. It has certain portions that can be soloed, some that can not.
MMOS sometimes can be solo only. MMORPGs are for solo AND group content, not just solo content. There is a difference between the two. If you haven't figured that out by now, or if you refuse to accept it, then that is not the fault of the Developers or other Players. The fault lies with you choosing the wrong gaming genre for the kind of game you prefer.
Stop trying to change MMORPGs into solo video games.
I agree to an extent that the Class end of Act quests need to be lowered in difficulty just a bit. I played both the level 25 Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight Class quests and they both are very difficult but the problem with the Jedi Knight quest is it's just 1 mob where as the sith warrior it's multiple mobs so you can slowly pick them off as if you die they don't respawn plus the vats you can break open that gives you HOTs doesn't hurt either. The Jedi Knight one however will regain full health if you die so if you don't know how to play your class your going to need to group up. I'm not going to go into details but the "Off Tank" skill tree is extremely helpful in getting past most of these Solo quests.
I shouldn't comment... But there is no "e" in ridiculous.
Honestly? I expect a reward that sets you apart from the casual players. Judging from your post, you're one of the casual players, and by that I mean no disrespect. I don't think we'll ever agree on each other's points of view, but that's alright.
I agree that playing the class correctly shouldn't directly reward level progression, as progression is a learning process, even through failure you're supposed to learn and advance. I wasn't trying to say that it should.
If this game truly is just WoW with a Star Wars overhaul, I won't be subscribed past the 1 month mark.
Doesn't better gear do enough to set you apart from casual players? You sound as if you don't think that's enough. I doubt any casual non-raider is ever going to contribute as much to a random PUG as you could with said gear.
Is it something visible that you want -- something that when you walk into town people KNOW and respect that you're a hardcore player who knows everything about his class?
This makes me wonder what has happened to mmo's that prevents people from grouping up. The fact that the quest may not say "requires more than one person" or the fact that people have become so socially inept that the act of asking someone for help makes them cower in a corner. Regardless this is a sign that mmo's are turning in online singleplayer rpg's where interaction only occurs in instanced pvp/dungeons. When will a true multiplayer experience come around again?
There are two sides to that coin.
First, your point. The MMORPG is for playing with others. Blah blah blah anti-solo blah blah blah.
But the other side is that there are a great many people who want to play a game in an interactive, persistant, living world and not be forced into social situations to get beyond abritrary roadblocks. I, for one, love MMORPGs for the sense that there is always more to do than in solo games. Not to mention that the more popular MMOs usually have more content available to the player.
There are times I want to solo and times I want to group. Normal progression shouldn't have "choke points" that force group play. Extra or side content, not a problem. But main class storyline quests? Thats just bad design.
I for one, am glad that swtor is harder and you can die alot. And i hope it stays that way even if it means swtor doesn't get 12 million subs.
I would agree, wow was dumbed down A LOT. Mostly because the casual players couldn't grasp certain concepts, again they don't care about the players so long as they're putting money in their pocket. They want to put all players on each other's level so that the casual players will have a chance too. Great idea? Sure if it's money you want.
SuperXero89, you keep defending WoW in a manner that makes me think that you don't care about what you want or what the players want, that you're happy to see that WoW has only done for them what was in their best interest and profited off of it.
When People stop acting like they suffer from an anti-social disorder and group up again. It's all up to the Players themselves really.
Oh... and for the record.... I actually DO suffer from anti-social disorders and anxiety, paranoia, depression... so I can say the above with experience. I have more issues with playing a MMORPG than most other People will ever have.
And I of all people can and do group up in MMORPGs, so I know it is indeed very possible.