In ToR if anyone is breaking mezzes vs hard mobs.. people are going to die. Period. Now you may not consider it 'skill', but it takes someone with more skill to understand when/how to use their mezzes and for tanks to understand which mobs to hit when they see two or three mezzed. If he picks the wrong one then the person's cooldown on another will not be ready when it's needed.
Reminds me of good old EQ2 days. Really like the thought of this. I was Illusionist as CC was more challenging.
ToR is a more skillful game than Rift is that point. That's all the OP probably is concerned with.
You are right that I want a heavy element of skill (i would prefer sandbox games, but they all fail lately) Rift currently gives me this from being able to configure my class in severalhunded types of ways to suit the situation, but it does lack the fight based skill. I run as healer as it seems to be the toughest, and latlely running a dps healer when i need to do enough damage that passive heals keep tank up.
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Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Professor78
Originally posted by teakbois
Its rift minus the rifts/invasions, with more engaing solo play when you arent in a group.
How many solo/duo dungeons does it currently have. as i love these in rift but only 3 live atm. Sorry lots of questions from me atm, the thought that could be playing it today need to make sure lol I dont think there is much demand for that stuff yet, however Im sure at max level the easy mod dunges can possibly be duoed with 2 players + 2 companions but not sure. SWTOR also has 3 difficulty modes for its dungeons.
Exactly.
In Rift if you 'solo', you have ONE dungeon to do at 50. That's it. You get one dungeon to solo in and honestly, it really wasn't that challenging except for one boss.
The thing is, along the way in Rift as you solo from 1-50 you barely have any areas that are challenging for the solo person. I can remember one 'hero' area with some cyclops guys that had you fight them in an arena which was kind of challenging. But beyond that, there wasn't much stuff to do for the 1-50 guy in Rift that was really worth a challenge.
In ToR, you have your typical quests like Rift, but then you have the daily heroics which if any of these guys claiming "easy" say they solo, they lie... bad. You aren't soloing those unless you are WAY over leveled for them, period.
The thing is.. there are TONS of heroic quests to do with others all around this game. If someone thinks the game is too easy, they should try to solo those heroics and then come back to comment.
With the amount of content available in ToR that far outweighs content in Rift, there isn't any reason to go back there unless you just miss the people you used to play with since all the stuff in Rift you go through is the same like the World Events.
Its also interesting that there are two viable gear up paths, at least pre 50.
First is the standard new item acquisition. The other is through the heavily customizable armor mod system.
Its also worth noting that armor crafters (synthweave, armormech) likely will have drastically different wares for a long time. Each regular crafted item has 1 green version, 3 blue versions and 15 purple versions. It takes a bit of work (or luck) to start getting the purple recipes.
Thanks for that. Im starting to be steared away slightly as there doesnt seem to be much character customisation atm.
Is there pvp specific armor? Or other types of "currency" to purchase different gear?
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At lvl 50 there is one whole planet dedicated to solo players.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
You are right that I want a heavy element of skill (i would prefer sandbox games, but they all fail lately) Rift currently gives me this from being able to configure my class in severalhunded types of ways to suit the situation, but it does lack the fight based skill. I run as healer as it seems to be the toughest, and latlely running a dps healer when i need to do enough damage that passive heals keep tank up.
I played a healer too in Rift. I had a Duracell spec for farming and dps dungeons. It was fun to mash that button, get hit to half health by a ton of mobs then hit one button and instantly be back up to full health. But honestly.. I had all the skills on THREE macros to do that. Literally.
It took NO challenge to stand there and do that. I put the healing bonus on the tank and started spamming.. 99% of the time. That was my impression of Rift.
When I healed, I was Shaman based so had all these HoTs that you kept spamming to prebuff the tank, then drop the big heal. It was pretty easy but it kept me busy because even though it was still only about three or four macros I ever used... I pushed them more often than other classes. But the point was you SAT there and button mashed.
In ToR, I have a 36 Commando. I do not mindless button mash and get away with it. It just doesn't work that way in healing for dungeons and fights there.. especially in PvP.
Firstly, there are NO macro to do that.. load up six or eight skills and the game magically picks which one should be used depending on the order you loaded them in. In ToR, you have to pay attention as a healer because unlike Rift.. a LOT of the dps classes (popular ones) are MELEE. Everyone and their brother is a Jedi Sent/Warrior, Vanguard or BH in the middle of the fray taking lots of damage. There is no Stormcaller class in ToR that sits there and chews up mobs without any consequence. Trooper is the closest but their AoE isn't godly.
So as a healer, you will be using SKILL unlike Rift, trust me. It is not as easy as healing in Rift. Even the support heals aren't as easy as Bard. There is no class in ToR that mashes songs and heals people from doing that... you have to balance when to fight and when to help heal as a support in ToR because you will run out of energy doing one or the other only.
With the amount of content available in ToR that far outweighs content in Rift, there isn't any reason to go back there unless you just miss the people you used to play with since all the stuff in Rift you go through is the same like the World Events.
Thanks for all your replies. Some things do sound intruiging. But there still doesnt seem anything to get my teeth into thats so different. Im guessing you havent played rift in a while. Since as things like the Instant adventure (instant grouping,dynamically scales quests/targets based on size players 1-20) and the massive 7gb patch ember isle that was released, specifically for geared lvl50s.
Im going to give swtor a bit to mature and see how fast the updates/content additions come out. if they can match Rifts pace I will reconsider jumping in
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you will think you like it for the first little while, but it gets boring as hell as you continue to play. I made it to lvl 12 and now im finding it hard to log on. got 6 1/2 hrs into the game so far (i never did beta, been taking my time, not rushing)
I was able to solo the first "heroic" area (some island on the first world).. died a few times, but managed to do all the quests there
I've come to the first instance.. i guess you can call it.. and the ENTIRE THING is EASILY soloable, except the last boss.. Nothing annoys me more then shit like this. I waste a good 25 -30mins clearing everyhting only to find out you cant kill the boss alone. It's not even like im barely surviving the pulls either, they are almost as easy as the mobs roaming around the quest world...and this is in the instance..
I played rift and i was able to make it to max level, and even get all my t1 gear with runes. I dont think I will be able to make it to max lvl in this game
stay away from it.
I predict a large drop in subs after the first 3 months, this is no wow killer... it wont even reach 1/2 of wow's subs.
With the amount of content available in ToR that far outweighs content in Rift, there isn't any reason to go back there unless you just miss the people you used to play with since all the stuff in Rift you go through is the same like the World Events.
Thanks for all your replies. Some things do sound intruiging. But there still doesnt seem anything to get my teeth into thats so different. Im guessing you havent played rift in a while. Since as things like the Instant adventure (instant grouping,dynamically scales quests/targets based on size players 1-20) and the massive 7gb patch ember isle that was released, specifically for geared lvl50s.
Im going to give swtor a bit to mature and see how fast the updates/content additions come out. if they can match Rifts pace I will reconsider jumping in
good decision if I wasn't so burt out on rift i would go back and wait to see how TOR grows.. no reason to leave rift if you are still enjoying it
Originally posted by Professor78 Is there pvp specific armor? Or other types of "currency" to purchase different gear?
Yes there is PvP gear. At level 34 you get the first "PvP" weapon that has some PvP stat on it. There is NO PvP weapon before that time that will give you an added advantage vs anyone else before level 34, which is a GOOD thing.
The first real PvP "gear" I believe with any PvP stats you wear is at level 40.
Now that sounds like you will be getting your head handed to you but not really. If you pug, yeah that MIGHT happen. But honestly in the game now there are very few guilds that are going in there and dominating the other side. I'm pretty sure all those kinds of teams queue the premade option.
So if you want to PvP, it's very accessible although until you level up, you will have less skills than other people. Like if you are a healer going in at 10, you get one or two heals and if you are facing another healer that's 50 with all his heals and buffs.. you won't win that.
BUT, if you talk to a tank ahead of time and ask can he put "Guard" on you, then you can heal him while he beats on stuff very easily. The person will try to kill YOU but the tank tanks half the damage you get so you and him kill that guy. Pretty easy.
Currency is very easy to get. You will have 1000 commendations before you know it just by doing one daily match. It really isn't hard to gear up in PvP as long as you level your character up.
Open world PvP is really fun and in Alderaan (where I'm just leaving) is where I ran into most Sith so the open portion is happening. I hit 36 and just got my "See Sith lurkers" probe which now is more fun because before then as a Trooper you're pretty blind. Now I can pop that and it's funny when you suprise the stealthers.
Since as things like the Instant adventure (instant grouping,dynamically scales quests/targets based on size players 1-20) and the massive 7gb patch ember isle that was released, specifically for geared lvl50s. Im going to give swtor a bit to mature and see how fast the updates/content additions come out. if they can match Rifts pace I will reconsider jumping in
Well good luck.
I played Rift in beta and signed up for six months. My sub ended in October 4th. I have kept up with everything Trion has done and honestly, I didn't see anything really.
They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps". Bonuses like "open Death Rift" are useless because there are tons of them all over all the time and... few do rifts anymore unless they think some loot might drop out. That's the wrong reason for me to be playing a mmo.. because I think loot will drop. If people find that's the main reason they are playing a mmo after time, they really might want to re-evaluate their gaming style because they probably are burnt out but don't know it.
ToR has the Legacy system which is pretty neat and I'm already earning points while I level.. not waiting until I hit 50. I can even switch to my level 10 alt and earn Legacy points which go to my main because it's tied to ALL your toons which is nice.
Rift added more dungeons and more raids since I left. The IA I tried as they were there before I left. They were fun after I did them for three days then they got old because it was a zergfest and ppl were basically fighting for scraps whereever the X on the map was. There was no way I'd pay $15 to zerg around like that just for coinage, which was the only reason people were doing it.. the shards or stones.
Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different.
Anyways, Rift isn't a bad game for those that like that kind of thing.
this right there is why I really can't read or take advice from your posts.. if you feel this game is vastly differn't than other MMOs out there.. well I just don't know what to say..
this right there is why I really can't read or take advice from your posts.. if you feel this game is vastly differn't than other MMOs out there.. well I just don't know what to say..
I'm sure you are probably looking at this game the way a scientist looks at nature.
See.. a scientist looks at nature and sees.. formulas. They see all the stuff that lies underneath nature and looks that from a purely analytical standpoint. When a scientist looks at a cheetah, this is what he sees:
The cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus) is a large-sized feline (family Felidae) inhabiting most of Africa and parts of the Middle East. The cheetah is the only extant member of the genus Acinonyx, most notable for modifications in the species' paws. As such, it is the only felid with non-retractable claws and pads that, by their scope, disallow gripping (therefore cheetahs cannot climb vertical trees, although they are generally capable of reaching easily accessible branches).
The cheetah, however, achieves by far the fastest land speed of any living animalbetween 112 and 120 km/h (70 and 75 mph)[3][4] in short bursts covering distances up to 500 m (1,600 ft), and has the ability to accelerate from 0 to over 100 km/h (62 mph) in three seconds.[5]
When a normal person looks at a cheetah, this is what they see:
I'm pretty sure this is why we see different things. Not bad, it's just you look more for all the stuff that is not really important in the long run instead of just enjoying the thing you are looking at.
They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps".
They give benefits based on what weapons you weild, mount speeds, walking speeds, resistance to elements, ability to summon minor/major rifts for each. And in second PA some 2hr buffs like add 120sp. And some quests will reward you with a whole PA level, so its all tied in quite nicely.
Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, This is my main point, what is there different that SWTOR offers, I really want there to be something different!
even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.
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This is a serious post, don't want any trolling rubbish. I have tried virtually every MMO there is at some point and wondering if I should jump into SWTOR now so not to get left behind. But got burnt with both AOC and FFXIV.
So I am asking any players who have moved from Rift and setting up home in SWTOR. I have put in 1700 hours into rift, and barely scratched the surface on what there is to do, I really do enjoy it that much. But there is one thing that is concerning me, the population seems to be gradually dwindling, and that eventually kills a game for me.
This is the bonus of SWTOR at the moment that I can see, and from all the negatove/possive stuff you read it looks like it could retain a healthy population.
So what has drawn other people in that really liked rift, what is it offering that was missing?
(And the Voiceover stuff doesnt really appeal to me as once I have seen it once, wouldnt really want to again. And wasntl too keen on the same kinda thing in Aion and AOC)
Serious responses only please. Potential Buyer.
If you are just getting burnt out, maybe a new MMO isn't what you need. Find a new style of game or a new hobbie.
Originally posted by Professor78 Originally posted by popinjay
They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps". They give benefits based on what weapons you weild, mount speeds, walking speeds, resistance to elements, ability to summon minor/major rifts for each. And in second PA some 2hr buffs like add 120sp. And some quests will reward you with a whole PA level, so its all tied in quite nicely. Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, This is my main point, what is there different that SWTOR offers, I really want there to be something different!
even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.
I realize that the title of your post " Old Rift players sell me SWTOR" was a toughie. I know how people feel about the "idea" of Rift. The idea of that game was great (rifts) but honestly it failed to deliver on that. It turned into Raid. Now if people are happy with the types of raids in there, that's fine but honestly, there is a world of difference in the types of things you say you are looking for in a game like Rift and one like ToR. The content is vastly different in both games and only if you played it you could see what people are talking about.
I realize I can't "sell you" on ToR. No one can. All anyone who played Rift for six months from beta and played ToR to 36 right now (myself) can do is tell you of what I see which someone at 20 isn't going to be able to tell you about that played Rift that same amount of time.
I don't really think you want to be 'sold' on ToR. I think you actually want to be sold on Rift as in.. "I don't really like Rift anymore, but I don't see anything else I want to play".
I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.
They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps".
They give benefits based on what weapons you weild, mount speeds, walking speeds, resistance to elements, ability to summon minor/major rifts for each. And in second PA some 2hr buffs like add 120sp. And some quests will reward you with a whole PA level, so its all tied in quite nicely.
Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, This is my main point, what is there different that SWTOR offers, I really want there to be something different!
even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.
no matter how you look at the game no matter how much people try to spin it SWTOR is a thempark clone through and through.. Doesn't mean its a bad game at all but if you go in expecting anything more than another basic themepark MMO you will be dissapointed... one thing that bothers me the most coming from rift is how limiting the class system is here.. obviously in rift this was one of its strongest features and having a role for PVP, one for dungeons, one for open world questing, one for open world pvp and be able to switch between them on the fly was such a relief.. going back to a game like this were you are restricted to one role unless you respec in which case you are still restricted to one role really is a let down coming from rift.. Also the talent trees in this game are just awful.. way to many of them are your basic increase this skill by 1-3%
This is a serious post, don't want any trolling rubbish. I have tried virtually every MMO there is at some point and wondering if I should jump into SWTOR now so not to get left behind. But got burnt with both AOC and FFXIV.
So I am asking any players who have moved from Rift and setting up home in SWTOR. I have put in 1700 hours into rift, and barely scratched the surface on what there is to do, I really do enjoy it that much. But there is one thing that is concerning me, the population seems to be gradually dwindling, and that eventually kills a game for me.
This is the bonus of SWTOR at the moment that I can see, and from all the negatove/possive stuff you read it looks like it could retain a healthy population.
So what has drawn other people in that really liked rift, what is it offering that was missing?
(And the Voiceover stuff doesnt really appeal to me as once I have seen it once, wouldnt really want to again. And wasntl too keen on the same kinda thing in Aion and AOC)
Serious responses only please. Potential Buyer.
If you are just getting burnt out, maybe a new MMO isn't what you need. Find a new style of game or a new hobbie.
Sounds like you just need to move on.
With got burnt i mean, I hole in my pocket. A waste of time. AOC with its glitches,lag and bugs. And FFXIV having zero content.
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one thing that bothers me the most coming from rift is how limiting the class system is here.. obviously in rift this was one of its strongest features and having a role for PVP, one for dungeons, one for open world questing, one for open world pvp and be able to switch between them on the fly was such a relief.. going back to a game like this were you are restricted to one role unless you respec in which case you are still restricted to one role really is a let down coming from rift..
The class system is Rift is a good idea, but it just falls short. Mainly because there are only a few viable roles for any particular thing. You certainly cannot play a 'teleporting sniper' with any efficiency in a PvP match due to the things you have to drop out of trees. So the premise they sold the game on is not really true.
Sure you can make a Shaman/Justicar or a Sentinel/Justicar but it's really the same thing. You're a healer doing the same thing is a slightly different way.
The roles that you can invent aren't really that diverse and the biggest contibution I think Rift does in this way is the "shift on the fly" thing where you can change from one style of healer to another but still .. healer. FFXI does the 'soul thing' long before this game as did Runes of Magic.
The only thing Trion gives you was you don't have to go to town to change your class. You don't have that in ToR because you really don't NEED it in ToR. Most people want don't really want to be a Jack of All Trades instead of a Master of One as much as they claim. If that was the case, you wouldn't have so many people leaving Rift as it is since that's the "heart" of the game.
Rift was sold on two things: soul system and rifts. Anything else wasn't listed as "OMG look". So if people aren't staying for that anymore that should be pretty telling especially given the claim that "Trion pushes out content faster than anyone else".
If Rift has the 'best class system', the most 'dynamic content (rifts)', it's company "listens to people unlike others" and pushes out content FASTER than anyone else in mmo history, why are subs bolting left and right with people saying "Sell me on ToR"? /boggle
I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.
since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift? yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..
If Rift has the 'best class system', the most 'dynamic content (rifts)', it's company "listens to people unlike others" and pushes out content FASTER than anyone else in mmo history, why are subs bolting left and right with people saying "Sell me on ToR"? /boggle
because at the end of the day rift is more of the same.. just like with swtor after the story and nice VO its more of the same which is why in a few months people are going to be over in the GW2 forums saying the same thing sell me on GW2
Originally posted by sanosukex Originally posted by popinjay
I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me. since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift?
yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..
Firstly, lets' get facts out of the way.
- I am a Level 36 Commando healer. Fact.
- I have NOT seen endgame nor am I am a rush to get to endgame because there is simply more content I've seen in ToR than at this same level I was at in Rift. Fact.
- There is not only any PvP planet in Rift, there is not any Pvp ZONE in Rift. So saying that there's no "politics" in ToR is a moot argument when it doesn't exist in Rift and that's been out for almost 10 months now. Fact.
- There are no "daily HEROICS" in Rift. Fact. There are dailies but there isn't anything at all heroic about "Go defuse five bombs in a field" when that literally takes you one minute. Literally. Unless they added daily "HEROICS" in Rift with EI, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Crafting is better in ToR than Rift. Fact. It doesn't matter that they both have crafing, it's who's crafting is better and ToR wins hands down. I have yet to find ANYONE who played Rift AND ToR and did both crafting for any length of time and said that Rift is better. I'm 305 Armstech, 295 Scavenging and 220 Investigations and it's FAR superior than anything Trion has. Crafting rifts? Seriously?
- Companions. Next time you play your shaman in Rift, command it to go sell all your grey loot you have in your inventory while you stay out in the field and keep fighting. If your companion comes back with your money, then tell him that you want them to go and craft something while you pick ANOTHER companion to fight instead because you now need a TANK companion vs a HEAL companion. Oh, and make sure your pet actually TALKS to you and understands when you command it to do that. That's immersion and content much better than Rift has. Fact.
- Minigames/sidesgame. ToR has shipboard content with missions that are escorts or destroying objectives. Rift's minigames include... coming soon, after 10 months. ToR has better side stuff. Fact.
- World size/exploration: Take all of Rift's zones every one and put them in a pile. Then go look at ToR and realize that BEFORE you hit 30, you've probably already seen more in ToR than all of Rift.. after 10 months. Fact.
How is ToR's endgame different from Rift's? How the hell would I know, lol? I'm still doing all the content BEFORE endgame so why would I concern myself with what's in another month from now?
To the OP sure go ahead and try it. You know me and and I a huge Rift fanboy. Go try it so you can gain a appreciation f what exactly Trion did with 1/3 of the budget of Bioware.
Go do their open world pvp or should I say complete and utter lack of open world pvp. Hey I guess giving any reward of any form...loot...xp...valor was a bad idea.
^ pick a qq thread any thread. They have not even started debating class differences and trying to get them nerfed yet. They are asking for basic crap like a report afk button. The first month of TOR is the best to get in because NONE of the exploits have been fixed.
SO go in afk or go turn your weekly quest item in over and over and get the quest done in two seconds. Bioware is proving to be god awful slow at fixing exploits. Yeah 6 hour maintenance times oh how I miss those days.
If You feel like dealing with half the basic crap missing from the game then go for it. Right now you are penalized as a healer if you like raid healing, but being dps the rest of the time GET READY TO PAY! Popin can not even try and argue any of these points with me because he knows I am right.
As many have said they keep pushing story because the guts of the game are completely rotten and outdated. Bioware could not pull off what a unknown dev with no real experience could.
Yeah the story might be great, but come 50 a new destination opens up on your map called Planet Azeroth and once you land you are stuck and play by their rules.
Watching this Rift vs SWTOR thread is like watching a couple of Porsche owners argue over who's car is better when they are both the same year and model.
Originally posted by Puremallace To the OP sure go ahead and try it. You know me and and I a huge Rift fanboy. Go try it so you can gain a appreciation f what exactly Trion did with 1/3 of the budget of Bioware.
Go do their open world pvp or should I say complete and utter lack of open world pvp.
So you expect a game that was sold on story as the main feature along with gameplay to have a fully engaged "open world PvP" population.. four days after it's initial launch?
My Pure, you sure don't put any unrealistic expectations on a game other than Rift.
After four days, most of the people playing the game are exploring, doing the quests and leveling. Why would you expect a PvE HEAVY game like ToR is to be full of a level 50 zone where everyone is PvPing?
I "appreciate" what West Virginia does with what little it has compared to New York, but it doesn't mean I want to move there.
- I have NOT seen endgame nor am I am a rush to get to endgame because there is simply more content I've seen in ToR than at this same level I was at in Rift. Fact.
- There is not only any PvP planet in Rift, there is not any Pvp ZONE in Rift. So saying that there's no "politics" in ToR is a moot argument when it doesn't exist in Rift and that's been out for almost 10 months now. Fact.
fact is endgame pvp is going to be the same, there is no reason to pvp other than gear grind.. same as rift same as wow unless you put in a system like DAOC or Lineage 2 PVP at eng game is nothing more than a gear grind
- There are no "daily HEROICS" in Rift. Fact. There are dailies but there isn't anything at all heroic about "Go defuse five bombs in a field" when that literally takes you one minute. Literally. Unless they added daily "HEROICS" in Rift with EI, I have no idea what you are talking about.
when you take into account the world event dailys and 3 solo dungeons and not to leave out all the crafting rifts, raid rifts items, the daily zone event items, the pvp rifts there are TONS of dailys in rift.. to many infact
- Crafting is better in ToR than Rift. Fact. It doesn't matter that they both have crafing, it's who's crafting is better and ToR wins hands down. I have yet to find ANYONE who played Rift AND ToR and did both crafting for any length of time and said that Rift is better. I'm 305 Armstech, 295 Scavenging and 220 Investigations and it's FAR superior than anything Trion has. Crafting rifts? Seriously?
crafting is nothing but a time sink in both games honestly.. im sitting right now racking up the credits from slicing by doing nothing but sitting here sending out my companion while I type this
- Companions. Next time you play your shaman in Rift, command it to go sell all your grey loot you have in your inventory while you stay out in the field and keep fighting. If your companion comes back with your money, then tell him that you want them to go and craft something while you pick ANOTHER companion to fight instead because you now need a TANK companion vs a HEAL companion. Oh, and make sure your pet actually TALKS to you and understands when you command it to do that. That's immersion and content much better than Rift has. Fact.
with the veteran rewards you can just summon a personal vedor and sell all your greys anywhere you want
- Minigames/sidesgame. ToR has shipboard content with missions that are escorts or destroying objectives. Rift's minigames include... coming soon, after 10 months. ToR has better side stuff. Fact.
- World size/exploration: Take all of Rift's zones every one and put them in a pile. Then go look at ToR and realize that BEFORE you hit 30, you've probably already seen more in ToR than all of Rift.. after 10 months. Fact.
I would be fine with TOR's worlds if eveything wasnt phased.. having 200 people in a planet the size of tatooine is just crazy im not sure if its a engine limitaion or what but it makes the games feel so empty and the bigger the planet the more its noticable.. this also destroys world pvp for people who enjoy that
How is ToR's endgame different from Rift's? How the hell would I know, lol? I'm still doing all the content BEFORE endgame so why would I concern myself with what's in another month from now?
you keep trying to sell how differn't this game is but in its core it is not.. does it have differn't things? of course its a differn't game but at its core its a thempark just like the rest of them
Comments
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
How many solo/duo dungeons does it currently have. as i love these in rift but only 3 live atm.
Sorry lots of questions from me atm, the thought that could be playing it today need to make sure lol
I dont think there is much demand for that stuff yet, however Im sure at max level the easy mod dunges can possibly be duoed with 2 players + 2 companions but not sure. SWTOR also has 3 difficulty modes for its dungeons.
Exactly.
In Rift if you 'solo', you have ONE dungeon to do at 50. That's it. You get one dungeon to solo in and honestly, it really wasn't that challenging except for one boss.
The thing is, along the way in Rift as you solo from 1-50 you barely have any areas that are challenging for the solo person. I can remember one 'hero' area with some cyclops guys that had you fight them in an arena which was kind of challenging. But beyond that, there wasn't much stuff to do for the 1-50 guy in Rift that was really worth a challenge.
In ToR, you have your typical quests like Rift, but then you have the daily heroics which if any of these guys claiming "easy" say they solo, they lie... bad. You aren't soloing those unless you are WAY over leveled for them, period.
The thing is.. there are TONS of heroic quests to do with others all around this game. If someone thinks the game is too easy, they should try to solo those heroics and then come back to comment.
With the amount of content available in ToR that far outweighs content in Rift, there isn't any reason to go back there unless you just miss the people you used to play with since all the stuff in Rift you go through is the same like the World Events.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Thanks for that. Im starting to be steared away slightly as there doesnt seem to be much character customisation atm.
Is there pvp specific armor? Or other types of "currency" to purchase different gear?
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
At lvl 50 there is one whole planet dedicated to solo players.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
It took NO challenge to stand there and do that. I put the healing bonus on the tank and started spamming.. 99% of the time. That was my impression of Rift.
When I healed, I was Shaman based so had all these HoTs that you kept spamming to prebuff the tank, then drop the big heal. It was pretty easy but it kept me busy because even though it was still only about three or four macros I ever used... I pushed them more often than other classes. But the point was you SAT there and button mashed.
In ToR, I have a 36 Commando. I do not mindless button mash and get away with it. It just doesn't work that way in healing for dungeons and fights there.. especially in PvP.
Firstly, there are NO macro to do that.. load up six or eight skills and the game magically picks which one should be used depending on the order you loaded them in. In ToR, you have to pay attention as a healer because unlike Rift.. a LOT of the dps classes (popular ones) are MELEE. Everyone and their brother is a Jedi Sent/Warrior, Vanguard or BH in the middle of the fray taking lots of damage. There is no Stormcaller class in ToR that sits there and chews up mobs without any consequence. Trooper is the closest but their AoE isn't godly.
So as a healer, you will be using SKILL unlike Rift, trust me. It is not as easy as healing in Rift. Even the support heals aren't as easy as Bard. There is no class in ToR that mashes songs and heals people from doing that... you have to balance when to fight and when to help heal as a support in ToR because you will run out of energy doing one or the other only.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Thanks for all your replies. Some things do sound intruiging. But there still doesnt seem anything to get my teeth into thats so different. Im guessing you havent played rift in a while. Since as things like the Instant adventure (instant grouping,dynamically scales quests/targets based on size players 1-20) and the massive 7gb patch ember isle that was released, specifically for geared lvl50s.
Im going to give swtor a bit to mature and see how fast the updates/content additions come out. if they can match Rifts pace I will reconsider jumping in
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
DONT BUY THIS GAME!!!!
you will think you like it for the first little while, but it gets boring as hell as you continue to play. I made it to lvl 12 and now im finding it hard to log on. got 6 1/2 hrs into the game so far (i never did beta, been taking my time, not rushing)
I was able to solo the first "heroic" area (some island on the first world).. died a few times, but managed to do all the quests there
I've come to the first instance.. i guess you can call it.. and the ENTIRE THING is EASILY soloable, except the last boss.. Nothing annoys me more then shit like this. I waste a good 25 -30mins clearing everyhting only to find out you cant kill the boss alone. It's not even like im barely surviving the pulls either, they are almost as easy as the mobs roaming around the quest world...and this is in the instance..
I played rift and i was able to make it to max level, and even get all my t1 gear with runes. I dont think I will be able to make it to max lvl in this game
stay away from it.
I predict a large drop in subs after the first 3 months, this is no wow killer... it wont even reach 1/2 of wow's subs.
good decision if I wasn't so burt out on rift i would go back and wait to see how TOR grows.. no reason to leave rift if you are still enjoying it
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
The first real PvP "gear" I believe with any PvP stats you wear is at level 40.
Now that sounds like you will be getting your head handed to you but not really. If you pug, yeah that MIGHT happen. But honestly in the game now there are very few guilds that are going in there and dominating the other side. I'm pretty sure all those kinds of teams queue the premade option.
So if you want to PvP, it's very accessible although until you level up, you will have less skills than other people. Like if you are a healer going in at 10, you get one or two heals and if you are facing another healer that's 50 with all his heals and buffs.. you won't win that.
BUT, if you talk to a tank ahead of time and ask can he put "Guard" on you, then you can heal him while he beats on stuff very easily. The person will try to kill YOU but the tank tanks half the damage you get so you and him kill that guy. Pretty easy.
Currency is very easy to get. You will have 1000 commendations before you know it just by doing one daily match. It really isn't hard to gear up in PvP as long as you level your character up.
Open world PvP is really fun and in Alderaan (where I'm just leaving) is where I ran into most Sith so the open portion is happening. I hit 36 and just got my "See Sith lurkers" probe which now is more fun because before then as a Trooper you're pretty blind. Now I can pop that and it's funny when you suprise the stealthers.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I played Rift in beta and signed up for six months. My sub ended in October 4th. I have kept up with everything Trion has done and honestly, I didn't see anything really.
They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps". Bonuses like "open Death Rift" are useless because there are tons of them all over all the time and... few do rifts anymore unless they think some loot might drop out. That's the wrong reason for me to be playing a mmo.. because I think loot will drop. If people find that's the main reason they are playing a mmo after time, they really might want to re-evaluate their gaming style because they probably are burnt out but don't know it.
ToR has the Legacy system which is pretty neat and I'm already earning points while I level.. not waiting until I hit 50. I can even switch to my level 10 alt and earn Legacy points which go to my main because it's tied to ALL your toons which is nice.
Rift added more dungeons and more raids since I left. The IA I tried as they were there before I left. They were fun after I did them for three days then they got old because it was a zergfest and ppl were basically fighting for scraps whereever the X on the map was. There was no way I'd pay $15 to zerg around like that just for coinage, which was the only reason people were doing it.. the shards or stones.
Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different.
Anyways, Rift isn't a bad game for those that like that kind of thing.
"TO MICHAEL!"
this right there is why I really can't read or take advice from your posts.. if you feel this game is vastly differn't than other MMOs out there.. well I just don't know what to say..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
[quote]Originally posted by sanosukex
I'm sure you are probably looking at this game the way a scientist looks at nature.See.. a scientist looks at nature and sees.. formulas. They see all the stuff that lies underneath nature and looks that from a purely analytical standpoint. When a scientist looks at a cheetah, this is what he sees:
When a normal person looks at a cheetah, this is what they see:
I'm pretty sure this is why we see different things. Not bad, it's just you look more for all the stuff that is not really important in the long run instead of just enjoying the thing you are looking at.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
If you are just getting burnt out, maybe a new MMO isn't what you need. Find a new style of game or a new hobbie.
Sounds like you just need to move on.
even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.
I realize that the title of your post " Old Rift players sell me SWTOR" was a toughie. I know how people feel about the "idea" of Rift. The idea of that game was great (rifts) but honestly it failed to deliver on that. It turned into Raid. Now if people are happy with the types of raids in there, that's fine but honestly, there is a world of difference in the types of things you say you are looking for in a game like Rift and one like ToR. The content is vastly different in both games and only if you played it you could see what people are talking about.
I realize I can't "sell you" on ToR. No one can. All anyone who played Rift for six months from beta and played ToR to 36 right now (myself) can do is tell you of what I see which someone at 20 isn't going to be able to tell you about that played Rift that same amount of time.
I don't really think you want to be 'sold' on ToR. I think you actually want to be sold on Rift as in.. "I don't really like Rift anymore, but I don't see anything else I want to play".
I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.
"TO MICHAEL!"
no matter how you look at the game no matter how much people try to spin it SWTOR is a thempark clone through and through.. Doesn't mean its a bad game at all but if you go in expecting anything more than another basic themepark MMO you will be dissapointed... one thing that bothers me the most coming from rift is how limiting the class system is here.. obviously in rift this was one of its strongest features and having a role for PVP, one for dungeons, one for open world questing, one for open world pvp and be able to switch between them on the fly was such a relief.. going back to a game like this were you are restricted to one role unless you respec in which case you are still restricted to one role really is a let down coming from rift.. Also the talent trees in this game are just awful.. way to many of them are your basic increase this skill by 1-3%
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
With got burnt i mean, I hole in my pocket. A waste of time. AOC with its glitches,lag and bugs. And FFXIV having zero content.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
Sure you can make a Shaman/Justicar or a Sentinel/Justicar but it's really the same thing. You're a healer doing the same thing is a slightly different way.
The roles that you can invent aren't really that diverse and the biggest contibution I think Rift does in this way is the "shift on the fly" thing where you can change from one style of healer to another but still .. healer. FFXI does the 'soul thing' long before this game as did Runes of Magic.
The only thing Trion gives you was you don't have to go to town to change your class. You don't have that in ToR because you really don't NEED it in ToR. Most people want don't really want to be a Jack of All Trades instead of a Master of One as much as they claim. If that was the case, you wouldn't have so many people leaving Rift as it is since that's the "heart" of the game.
Rift was sold on two things: soul system and rifts. Anything else wasn't listed as "OMG look". So if people aren't staying for that anymore that should be pretty telling especially given the claim that "Trion pushes out content faster than anyone else".
If Rift has the 'best class system', the most 'dynamic content (rifts)', it's company "listens to people unlike others" and pushes out content FASTER than anyone else in mmo history, why are subs bolting left and right with people saying "Sell me on ToR"? /boggle
"TO MICHAEL!"
since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift? yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
because at the end of the day rift is more of the same.. just like with swtor after the story and nice VO its more of the same which is why in a few months people are going to be over in the GW2 forums saying the same thing sell me on GW2
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift?
yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..
Firstly, lets' get facts out of the way.
- I am a Level 36 Commando healer. Fact.
- I have NOT seen endgame nor am I am a rush to get to endgame because there is simply more content I've seen in ToR than at this same level I was at in Rift. Fact.
- There is not only any PvP planet in Rift, there is not any Pvp ZONE in Rift. So saying that there's no "politics" in ToR is a moot argument when it doesn't exist in Rift and that's been out for almost 10 months now. Fact.
- There are no "daily HEROICS" in Rift. Fact. There are dailies but there isn't anything at all heroic about "Go defuse five bombs in a field" when that literally takes you one minute. Literally. Unless they added daily "HEROICS" in Rift with EI, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Crafting is better in ToR than Rift. Fact. It doesn't matter that they both have crafing, it's who's crafting is better and ToR wins hands down. I have yet to find ANYONE who played Rift AND ToR and did both crafting for any length of time and said that Rift is better. I'm 305 Armstech, 295 Scavenging and 220 Investigations and it's FAR superior than anything Trion has. Crafting rifts? Seriously?
- Companions. Next time you play your shaman in Rift, command it to go sell all your grey loot you have in your inventory while you stay out in the field and keep fighting. If your companion comes back with your money, then tell him that you want them to go and craft something while you pick ANOTHER companion to fight instead because you now need a TANK companion vs a HEAL companion. Oh, and make sure your pet actually TALKS to you and understands when you command it to do that. That's immersion and content much better than Rift has. Fact.
- Minigames/sidesgame. ToR has shipboard content with missions that are escorts or destroying objectives. Rift's minigames include... coming soon, after 10 months. ToR has better side stuff. Fact.
- World size/exploration: Take all of Rift's zones every one and put them in a pile. Then go look at ToR and realize that BEFORE you hit 30, you've probably already seen more in ToR than all of Rift.. after 10 months. Fact.
How is ToR's endgame different from Rift's? How the hell would I know, lol? I'm still doing all the content BEFORE endgame so why would I concern myself with what's in another month from now?
"TO MICHAEL!"
To the OP sure go ahead and try it. You know me and and I a huge Rift fanboy. Go try it so you can gain a appreciation f what exactly Trion did with 1/3 of the budget of Bioware.
Go do their open world pvp or should I say complete and utter lack of open world pvp. Hey I guess giving any reward of any form...loot...xp...valor was a bad idea.
http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76
^ pick a qq thread any thread. They have not even started debating class differences and trying to get them nerfed yet. They are asking for basic crap like a report afk button. The first month of TOR is the best to get in because NONE of the exploits have been fixed.
SO go in afk or go turn your weekly quest item in over and over and get the quest done in two seconds. Bioware is proving to be god awful slow at fixing exploits. Yeah 6 hour maintenance times oh how I miss those days.
If You feel like dealing with half the basic crap missing from the game then go for it. Right now you are penalized as a healer if you like raid healing, but being dps the rest of the time GET READY TO PAY! Popin can not even try and argue any of these points with me because he knows I am right.
As many have said they keep pushing story because the guts of the game are completely rotten and outdated. Bioware could not pull off what a unknown dev with no real experience could.
Yeah the story might be great, but come 50 a new destination opens up on your map called Planet Azeroth and once you land you are stuck and play by their rules.
Watching this Rift vs SWTOR thread is like watching a couple of Porsche owners argue over who's car is better when they are both the same year and model.
My theme song.
My Pure, you sure don't put any unrealistic expectations on a game other than Rift.
After four days, most of the people playing the game are exploring, doing the quests and leveling. Why would you expect a PvE HEAVY game like ToR is to be full of a level 50 zone where everyone is PvPing?
I "appreciate" what West Virginia does with what little it has compared to New York, but it doesn't mean I want to move there.
"TO MICHAEL!"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html