Gylfi - you confuse me. To enlighten us, can you please define what an MMO is (according to you)? Define it clearly.
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter.
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks.
Originally posted by Gylfi MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter. So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So...when I log in on Monday and chat, trade, join TeamSpeak and raid with other people, the game is MMO.
But when I log in on Tuesday and just turn off all the channels and do some solo quests, the game is no loner MMO?
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter.
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So...when I log in on Monday and chat, trade, join TeamSpeak and raid with other people, the game is MMO.
But when I log in on Tuesday and just turn off all the channels and do some solo quests, the game is no loner MMO?
chat, teamspeak? chatting is not playing. It is like being in a forum. is www.mmorpg.com A MMO?
Raid? Waht raid? you and 2 others? And do you care about their actions or you expect em to act as bots and just do what's expected from their classes? They're bots, you don't PLAY with the people behind them, they can't do ANYTHING that's different from expected, if they do you call 'em idiots.
And let's pretend they are people in your mind. you play with 20 "persons". How is that massive?
Massive is somehow to play with the WHOLE community, massive is to be aware of the community as a coherent entity. You NEVER feel that inside the game, while you did it in EVE, Ultima and DAOC.
LoL if ToR is not an mmo then neither is WoW since the cross server looking for a group system pretty much everyone spend time in raids , instances and battlegrounds and centralised to citys .
Originally posted by veggie_eater Originally posted by Gylfi
Originally posted by Sikhander Gylfi - you confuse me. To enlighten us, can you please define what an MMO is (according to you)? Define it clearly.
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter. So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance? So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks. But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights. Well said...
yes. it is basically a single player RPG with some multi-player/co-op features. thats my big problem with the game, it isnt an MMO, dont call it one. Whats next ? EA/Bioware will want players to pay for true single player RPGS ? it was bad enough they wanted to charge for downloadable content in DA. I played the first one and was done with the series. In fact I am not sure if I will ever play a EA/Bioware game again.
Originally posted by Sovrath As long as I'm enjoying myself I'll pay the sub. What burns me is that whenever I see posts like this I so want to be able to walk into the lives of the poster and start pointing at things and saying "really? This?" And you ask me that?" People are different, why is this so hard to grasp? Some people actualy pay for cars when they live in an area with perfectly good public transportation systems. To me THAT'S a waste of hard earned money. But to each his/her own.
I totally understand your point. But, the flip side is, we are all here because we have an interest in MMOs. And when a company like EA/Bioware comes on the scene and clearly makes a single player RPG with multi-player capability and wants to force this new model on the genre, people will take offense. this is not an MMO. they have no right to call it one. If EA/Bioware wants to start charging for their single player RPGS, fine -- I wont play them, but for those who wish to -- go ahead. You have to understand, this really looks like a step to start charging players for EVERY game thet play. About as stupid as banks charging their customer to use debit cards. Gamers are upset about this -- as they should be. I wont support this game and havent bought a EA/Bioware game in years....and I used to LOVE bioware. NWN is still one of my all time fav games. EA ruined them.
Originally posted by Gylfi chat, teamspeak? chatting is not playing.
It is still interaction, same for raiding or trading. Interaction you said is not there and supposedly being determined by player actions - ie. closing chat channels.
It seems like you wage factual evidence by some arbitrary measures you set for yourself. Same goes for term Massive, which implies quantity but no other properties.
Gylfi - you confuse me. To enlighten us, can you please define what an MMO is (according to you)? Define it clearly.
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter.
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks.
But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights.
Well said...
yes. it is basically a single player RPG with some multi-player/co-op features. thats my big problem with the game, it isnt an MMO, dont call it one. Whats next ? EA/Bioware will want players to pay for true single player RPGS ? it was bad enough they wanted to charge for downloadable content in DA. I played the first one and was done with the series. In fact I am not sure if I will ever play a EA/Bioware game again.
I agree. Tor lacks the massive feel. But then again smal instanced zones tend to do that to a game.
Some of these kids dont know what a world is in an MMO, small instanced zones are all they have seen.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by toddze Originally posted by Tyvolus
Originally posted by veggie_eater
Originally posted by Gylfi
Originally posted by Sikhander Gylfi - you confuse me. To enlighten us, can you please define what an MMO is (according to you)? Define it clearly.
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter. So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance? So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks. But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights.
Well said...
yes. it is basically a single player RPG with some multi-player/co-op features. thats my big problem with the game, it isnt an MMO, dont call it one. Whats next ? EA/Bioware will want players to pay for true single player RPGS ? it was bad enough they wanted to charge for downloadable content in DA. I played the first one and was done with the series. In fact I am not sure if I will ever play a EA/Bioware game again. I agree. Tor lacks the massive feel. But then again smal instanced zones tend to do that to a game. Some of these kids dont know what a world is in an MMO, small instanced zones are all they have seen.
exactly, if you have never been to a beach in Hawaii, you are just fine with the local swimming hole. when you dont know what you are missing, you think this is ok, or *gasp* even good. its sad really.
When I would play Eve, I asked myself the same question, who would pay for this crap with a dark screen and tiny dots on it, but there are people out there who are into spread sheets and such who love the game, I love a game with voice over (Loved the first 20 lvls of AOC) good quests (Vanguard has good ones also), a great story line (SWTOR crushes the comp here no one even close), nice combat (AOC is better but only if you are melee), immersive atmospere (Lotro is also very, very good here) and a huge team to help the game grow (only wow here and they are headed in the wrong direction). So to each his own I guess. A Sandbox lover is gooing to hate themparks and maybe visa versa, a WOW lover may hate SWTOR because of the competition, etc, etc
There's a lot of MMOs I would never pay for, many mmo's I don't like. There's FEW where it seems like the monthly fee is just not justified for what they are providing those that DO enjoy it. SWTOR is one of them or is very close. Others have already gone 'f2p'.
What burns me is that whenever I see posts like this I so want to be able to walk into the lives of the poster and start pointing at things and saying "really? This?" And you ask me that?"
People are different, why is this so hard to grasp? Some people actualy pay for cars when they live in an area with perfectly good public transportation systems. To me THAT'S a waste of hard earned money.
But to each his/her own.
I totally understand your point. But, the flip side is, we are all here because we have an interest in MMOs. And when a company like EA/Bioware comes on the scene and clearly makes a single player RPG with multi-player capability and wants to force this new model on the genre, people will take offense. this is not an MMO. they have no right to call it one. If EA/Bioware wants to start charging for their single player RPGS, fine -- I wont play them, but for those who wish to -- go ahead. You have to understand, this really looks like a step to start charging players for EVERY game thet play. About as stupid as banks charging their customer to use debit cards. Gamers are upset about this -- as they should be. I wont support this game and havent bought a EA/Bioware game in years....and I used to LOVE bioware. NWN is still one of my all time fav games. EA ruined them.
I can see your point but what people are missing is that this isn't a "solo player game".
Oh sure, some can't approach it in any other way nor can they see beyond the initilal story mechanics that are in place.
but I, as a soloer, have grouped more n SWToR than I have in, well, a long time.
So how is that a single player game? It's not that I'm doing everything grouped but there are quests and areas that just require groups.
To that end I am constantly seeing people looking for groups. So those that are having a hard time and think this is just a "solo game" need to either shift their paradigm a bit or need to look harder.
Now, having said that, I don't want every game to be a constant leech on my wallet. As a point of note, I'm not a "cheap" person. I believe in paying for my entertainment.
But if I am getting value for my dollar then it is always worth it.
For instance, I don't have cable. I can afford cable but at this point it's just not worth it to me. So I don't pay what many peopel pay per month in order to access that type of entertaiment.
I also don't have a car as I see it as an extreme waste of money and time. Time being getting it serviced, looking for parking, possible parking tickets (I live in a city) etc.
I do eat out all the time. Some might think that a waste of money and I look at it as I don't have to cook, I don't have to clean dishes and I get a better meal than if I made something myself.
What I'm trying to say is that we all find ways to spend our money in ways that others might not quite understand.
And since I and others find value in the game that Bioware has created (and as long as that sub fee brings us what we perceive as "value") then it will be worth it for us to pay for access to their game.
If a game developer creates something and asks for a fee and it's not of value I just won't buy it. But I'm not going to sit in perplexity at why others might pay for it when clearly I pay for video games and most of my friends think that's a waste of money (and time I might add).
We all have our own idea of value.
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I disagree... its worth maybe $60... but after that monthly to me? Nah... not worth it. So sure, I do sort of agree about it for the monthly payments but at the same time it does have some value, even if its a game I'd buy more likely when its on the bargin bin or down to about half its retail price.
It is still interaction, same for raiding or trading. Interaction you said is not there and supposedly being determined by player actions - ie. closing chat channels.
It seems like you wage factual evidence by some arbitrary measures you set for yourself. Same goes for term Massive, which implies quantity but no other properties.
but i interact with the person, not with the player. It's not game-related interaction. By this criteria, if Monkey Island has a chat room it makes it massive multiplayer, maybe?
I probably won't pay for it, but it's not a single player game, not even a soloer's game. I've been encouraged into grouping (and ended up grouping) more in this game than in any major MMO after Vanguard. In fact, this is a co-op player's game through and through, because even the content not originally intended for a group is more fun and more rewarding when done in a group. There are actual initiatives for grouping here.
Also, the game has nearly all of the standard features any rational definition of an MMO would require. You cannot define what an MMO is to your liking, just going on "how it feels". If I recall correctly, what the UO developers originally meant by MMO was "more than 300 players in an online world". That's it. Of course, they did end up getting more, but still... SWTOR has all the major parts that make up a typical example of the genre (such as trading, co-op play including open world group content areas and world bosses, open world pvp, resource farming and crafting). So questioning whether it's an MMO comes across as mere polemicism to me...
On the other hand, strictly in terms of how it "feels", yeah, to me the game does feel a bit too walled-off and sterile for its own good. The zone instancing really bugs me, I've never made peace with that... The lack of swimming, dynamic weather and day/night cycle still bugs me, I've never made peace with that. Also the fact that the whole game is based on just combat is the biggest letdown for me in terms of this game's design. To me, non-combat activities go a long way to bring in that "world" feeling.
So I'd probably say, sure it's an MMO, but it doesn't feel as free, open, and alive as some other MMOs.
Pretty sure this is one of dem der eye of the beholder things. I don't remember single player RPGs having any kind of social aspect...
You would be correct.
But as I've already stated, I've grouped and been social more in SWToR than I have in a bit. And I constantly see people looking for groups.
So are you saying that even though I am grouping and that people are looking for groups that no one is grouping?
This is a tired mantra.
Get in there and group. It's not hard. If you don't like the game "great". There's definitley stuff not to like. But it's hard to take any arguments for it just being a solo game when there are people who are clearly grouping.
Unless of course people's idea of "grouping" is hand holding to get them to the group. Then I have no answer as I believe that it's one's own responsibility to take care of their own fun.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When I would play Eve, I asked myself the same question, who would pay for this crap with a dark screen and tiny dots on it, but there are people out there who are into spread sheets and such who love the game, I love a game with voice over (Loved the first 20 lvls of AOC) good quests (Vanguard has good ones also), a great story line (SWTOR crushes the comp here no one even close), nice combat (AOC is better but only if you are melee), immersive atmospere (Lotro is also very, very good here) and a huge team to help the game grow (only wow here and they are headed in the wrong direction). So to each his own I guess. A Sandbox lover is gooing to hate themparks and maybe visa versa, a WOW lover may hate SWTOR because of the competition, etc, etc
problem is that the implementation of story in current MMOs contradicts the nature of MMOs.
You pay monthly for a single player game w/ co-op.
Pretty sure this is one of dem der eye of the beholder things. I don't remember single player RPGs having any kind of social aspect...
You would be correct.
But as I've already stated, I've grouped and been social more in SWToR than I have in a bit. And I constantly see people looking for groups.
So are you saying that even though I am grouping and that people are looking for groups that no one is grouping?
This is a tired mantra.
Get in their and group. It's not hard. If you don't like the game "great". There's definitley stuff not to like. But it's hard to take any arguments for it just being a solo game when there are people who are clearly grouping.
Unless of course people's idea of "grouping" is hand holding to get them to the group. Then I have no answer as I believe that it's one's own responsibility to take care of their own fun.
I don't play Swtor, it's not for me...
...but I do like to be challenged when I play games. Granted there are group quests in the game which allow you to socialize with other players, but I hear most of the game is soloable.
So, unless you're having fun with some friends, wouldn't grouping just make the quests trivial and dull?
I will be paying 15 bucks a month for this. I laugh every time I hear anyone state this is a "WoW Clone". Sure they share aspects but this is the least like WoW of any major MMORPG that has hit the market. As for it being a solo game that is the most incorrect statement I have heard in a long time. There are more group quests and things to do during leveling than most MMO's Ever had. By level 10 you have I believe 3 group quests and a flashpoint(instance). As far as reroll value sure I have heard the complaint that only the class story line changes and all the other quests are the same. However with conversation choices you can run through the same quest and have it give you a completely different experience than when you ran through it before. Not to mention if you bored doing reg old quests you can do space combat...which is not as cool as if they say made it like playing tie fighter(would of rocked) but is still fun and better than I was expecting. Anyways let the trolls troll as for me I will be in game having the biggest blast I have had in any game since the first month I played WoW over 5 years ago.
Comments
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter.
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks.
But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights.
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So...when I log in on Monday and chat, trade, join TeamSpeak and raid with other people, the game is MMO.
But when I log in on Tuesday and just turn off all the channels and do some solo quests, the game is no loner MMO?
chat, teamspeak? chatting is not playing. It is like being in a forum. is www.mmorpg.com A MMO?
Raid? Waht raid? you and 2 others? And do you care about their actions or you expect em to act as bots and just do what's expected from their classes? They're bots, you don't PLAY with the people behind them, they can't do ANYTHING that's different from expected, if they do you call 'em idiots.
And let's pretend they are people in your mind. you play with 20 "persons". How is that massive?
Massive is somehow to play with the WHOLE community, massive is to be aware of the community as a coherent entity. You NEVER feel that inside the game, while you did it in EVE, Ultima and DAOC.
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LoL if ToR is not an mmo then neither is WoW since the cross server looking for a group system pretty much everyone spend time in raids , instances and battlegrounds and centralised to citys .
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks.
But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights.
Well said...
yes. it is basically a single player RPG with some multi-player/co-op features. thats my big problem with the game, it isnt an MMO, dont call it one. Whats next ? EA/Bioware will want players to pay for true single player RPGS ? it was bad enough they wanted to charge for downloadable content in DA. I played the first one and was done with the series. In fact I am not sure if I will ever play a EA/Bioware game again.
I totally understand your point. But, the flip side is, we are all here because we have an interest in MMOs. And when a company like EA/Bioware comes on the scene and clearly makes a single player RPG with multi-player capability and wants to force this new model on the genre, people will take offense. this is not an MMO. they have no right to call it one. If EA/Bioware wants to start charging for their single player RPGS, fine -- I wont play them, but for those who wish to -- go ahead. You have to understand, this really looks like a step to start charging players for EVERY game thet play. About as stupid as banks charging their customer to use debit cards. Gamers are upset about this -- as they should be. I wont support this game and havent bought a EA/Bioware game in years....and I used to LOVE bioware. NWN is still one of my all time fav games. EA ruined them.
It is still interaction, same for raiding or trading. Interaction you said is not there and supposedly being determined by player actions - ie. closing chat channels.
It seems like you wage factual evidence by some arbitrary measures you set for yourself. Same goes for term Massive, which implies quantity but no other properties.
Apparently 50 cents a day is a lot of money to OP....
I agree. Tor lacks the massive feel. But then again smal instanced zones tend to do that to a game.
Some of these kids dont know what a world is in an MMO, small instanced zones are all they have seen.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
MMO is massive multiplayer. How can TOR be massive multiplayer if you play with 2 of your roomates and you ignore EVERYONE else and turn off the channel? And if you don't ignore them you just "use" them as bots to kill the mob in front of you? You don't interact with the PLAYERS, you don't care about them, about their choices about their actions, you exploit their damage per seconds to pile them up with yours and beat a critter.
So it's massive multiplayer only on papers, not based on how you actually play. ISn't pragmatism more important than appearance?
So your actual way to play is even less massive multiplayer than neverwinter nights. It's MMO just because as a matter of fact you're in a server with 2k people.. And that's just so they can charge you 15 bucks.
But TOR is exactly like Neverwinter nights.
Well said...
yes. it is basically a single player RPG with some multi-player/co-op features. thats my big problem with the game, it isnt an MMO, dont call it one. Whats next ? EA/Bioware will want players to pay for true single player RPGS ? it was bad enough they wanted to charge for downloadable content in DA. I played the first one and was done with the series. In fact I am not sure if I will ever play a EA/Bioware game again.
I agree. Tor lacks the massive feel. But then again smal instanced zones tend to do that to a game.
Some of these kids dont know what a world is in an MMO, small instanced zones are all they have seen.
exactly, if you have never been to a beach in Hawaii, you are just fine with the local swimming hole. when you dont know what you are missing, you think this is ok, or *gasp* even good. its sad really.
Lol thats alot of originally posted by's
When I would play Eve, I asked myself the same question, who would pay for this crap with a dark screen and tiny dots on it, but there are people out there who are into spread sheets and such who love the game, I love a game with voice over (Loved the first 20 lvls of AOC) good quests (Vanguard has good ones also), a great story line (SWTOR crushes the comp here no one even close), nice combat (AOC is better but only if you are melee), immersive atmospere (Lotro is also very, very good here) and a huge team to help the game grow (only wow here and they are headed in the wrong direction). So to each his own I guess. A Sandbox lover is gooing to hate themparks and maybe visa versa, a WOW lover may hate SWTOR because of the competition, etc, etc
There's a lot of MMOs I would never pay for, many mmo's I don't like. There's FEW where it seems like the monthly fee is just not justified for what they are providing those that DO enjoy it. SWTOR is one of them or is very close. Others have already gone 'f2p'.
You should have made this into a poll and skipped all the replies.
You would see that a vast majority will happily pay $15 a month for the type of quality entertainment value this game offers.
And for those who are delusional enough to say this game will be F2P in a year.... how's life in your tin foil hat? At least your heads are warm.
I'd say more like 2-3 years to f2p, but that's assuming they don't fix the current issues with it's massively feel.
iknorite? ...as if it would take that long. pffft
I can see your point but what people are missing is that this isn't a "solo player game".
Oh sure, some can't approach it in any other way nor can they see beyond the initilal story mechanics that are in place.
but I, as a soloer, have grouped more n SWToR than I have in, well, a long time.
So how is that a single player game? It's not that I'm doing everything grouped but there are quests and areas that just require groups.
To that end I am constantly seeing people looking for groups. So those that are having a hard time and think this is just a "solo game" need to either shift their paradigm a bit or need to look harder.
Now, having said that, I don't want every game to be a constant leech on my wallet. As a point of note, I'm not a "cheap" person. I believe in paying for my entertainment.
But if I am getting value for my dollar then it is always worth it.
For instance, I don't have cable. I can afford cable but at this point it's just not worth it to me. So I don't pay what many peopel pay per month in order to access that type of entertaiment.
I also don't have a car as I see it as an extreme waste of money and time. Time being getting it serviced, looking for parking, possible parking tickets (I live in a city) etc.
I do eat out all the time. Some might think that a waste of money and I look at it as I don't have to cook, I don't have to clean dishes and I get a better meal than if I made something myself.
What I'm trying to say is that we all find ways to spend our money in ways that others might not quite understand.
And since I and others find value in the game that Bioware has created (and as long as that sub fee brings us what we perceive as "value") then it will be worth it for us to pay for access to their game.
If a game developer creates something and asks for a fee and it's not of value I just won't buy it. But I'm not going to sit in perplexity at why others might pay for it when clearly I pay for video games and most of my friends think that's a waste of money (and time I might add).
We all have our own idea of value.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I disagree... its worth maybe $60... but after that monthly to me? Nah... not worth it. So sure, I do sort of agree about it for the monthly payments but at the same time it does have some value, even if its a game I'd buy more likely when its on the bargin bin or down to about half its retail price.
but i interact with the person, not with the player. It's not game-related interaction. By this criteria, if Monkey Island has a chat room it makes it massive multiplayer, maybe?
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Pretty sure this is one of dem der eye of the beholder things. I don't remember single player RPGs having any kind of social aspect...
I probably won't pay for it, but it's not a single player game, not even a soloer's game. I've been encouraged into grouping (and ended up grouping) more in this game than in any major MMO after Vanguard. In fact, this is a co-op player's game through and through, because even the content not originally intended for a group is more fun and more rewarding when done in a group. There are actual initiatives for grouping here.
Also, the game has nearly all of the standard features any rational definition of an MMO would require. You cannot define what an MMO is to your liking, just going on "how it feels". If I recall correctly, what the UO developers originally meant by MMO was "more than 300 players in an online world". That's it. Of course, they did end up getting more, but still...
SWTOR has all the major parts that make up a typical example of the genre (such as trading, co-op play including open world group content areas and world bosses, open world pvp, resource farming and crafting). So questioning whether it's an MMO comes across as mere polemicism to me...
On the other hand, strictly in terms of how it "feels", yeah, to me the game does feel a bit too walled-off and sterile for its own good. The zone instancing really bugs me, I've never made peace with that... The lack of swimming, dynamic weather and day/night cycle still bugs me, I've never made peace with that. Also the fact that the whole game is based on just combat is the biggest letdown for me in terms of this game's design. To me, non-combat activities go a long way to bring in that "world" feeling.
So I'd probably say, sure it's an MMO, but it doesn't feel as free, open, and alive as some other MMOs.
You would be correct.
But as I've already stated, I've grouped and been social more in SWToR than I have in a bit. And I constantly see people looking for groups.
So are you saying that even though I am grouping and that people are looking for groups that no one is grouping?
This is a tired mantra.
Get in there and group. It's not hard. If you don't like the game "great". There's definitley stuff not to like. But it's hard to take any arguments for it just being a solo game when there are people who are clearly grouping.
Unless of course people's idea of "grouping" is hand holding to get them to the group. Then I have no answer as I believe that it's one's own responsibility to take care of their own fun.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
problem is that the implementation of story in current MMOs contradicts the nature of MMOs.
You pay monthly for a single player game w/ co-op.
I think it's a swindle, a thievery scam.
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I don't play Swtor, it's not for me...
...but I do like to be challenged when I play games. Granted there are group quests in the game which allow you to socialize with other players, but I hear most of the game is soloable.
So, unless you're having fun with some friends, wouldn't grouping just make the quests trivial and dull?
I will be paying 15 bucks a month for this. I laugh every time I hear anyone state this is a "WoW Clone". Sure they share aspects but this is the least like WoW of any major MMORPG that has hit the market. As for it being a solo game that is the most incorrect statement I have heard in a long time. There are more group quests and things to do during leveling than most MMO's Ever had. By level 10 you have I believe 3 group quests and a flashpoint(instance). As far as reroll value sure I have heard the complaint that only the class story line changes and all the other quests are the same. However with conversation choices you can run through the same quest and have it give you a completely different experience than when you ran through it before. Not to mention if you bored doing reg old quests you can do space combat...which is not as cool as if they say made it like playing tie fighter(would of rocked) but is still fun and better than I was expecting. Anyways let the trolls troll as for me I will be in game having the biggest blast I have had in any game since the first month I played WoW over 5 years ago.