In the OP Aion is brought up, a bad choice for him to play since it had no PVE servers, the only way was open world PVP and yes, ganking was a regular thing yet I managed to find ways to level up to 41 and it was the grindy, boring nature of the game that drove me away, not the ganking.
That said, it certainly wasn't competitive PVP which very few MMORPG's have, the typical game mechanic limitations were in place. in Aion specifically spells couldn't really land on anything (NPC or player) 4 - 5 levels above you. I recall one time my son and I fought an enemy healer type character to a draw. He couldn't kill us, we couldn't kill him despite 20 minutes of trying between both sides.
Most other level based MMORPG's I've played are designed similarly, and the lower level player's option is to flee or make sure they hunt in out of the way places where they aren't discovered.
Now, what the OP seemed to be asking was in a PVP server environment, why can't people play "fair" and I understand his line of reasoning.
Although a carebear in playstyle, I regularly play on PVP servers for the challenge it adds to generally boring PVE content.
But I don't gank. I dunno, there's not real fun in it to me, knowing I beat someone strictly because of my levels and perhaps knowing that if the odds were more even they'd probably destroy me. (because truth is, I suck at PVP, too old and slow) It's just not fair in my eyes.
But difference between OP and me is i don't expect other people to play the same way i do. There are those who enjoy killing anything viewed as an enemy, and if I'm in a PVP game environment their play style is as valid. For many people they are denying resources or advancement to the other side.
I just try very hard to avoid their attempts to kill me, and most games allow for it. I had no issues on PVP servers in WOW, (back when people actually used to gank you on PVP servers) AION, Rift, etc. Heck, I played EVE for over 3.5 years and had fewer kills in that time than some players get in a couple of days. (But I didn't lose all that many ships in EVE either.)
I do recall AOC being a problem, mostly because I could never read the quest givers text without racing through it w/o reading because I didn't want to be ganked while standing their reading. But still I got a character up into the lower 50's before finally leaving due to boring gameplay more than anything else.
Because of this I will likely roll on a PVE server in SWTOR so I can really enjoy the storyline, and maybe one day reroll on a PVP server,
One final note to the OP, if you are being repetitively being killed you need to find alternate spots to level, or call in friends/realm mates to help, (I did that a lot in Aion) and never, ever send a message to your opponent complaining about their behaviour, they thrive on tears.
In EVE many corporations insist on a policy of saying nothing more to an opponent besides the simple phrase "Good Fight" even when you were rolled 20-1.
In the OP Aion is brought up, a bad choice for him to play since it had no PVE servers, the only way was open world PVP and yes, ganking was a regular thing yet I managed to find ways to level up to 41 and it was the grindy, boring nature of the game that drove me away, not the ganking.
That said, it certainly wasn't competitive PVP which very few MMORPG's have, the typical game mechanic limitations were in place. in Aion specifically spells couldn't really land on anything (NPC or player) 4 - 5 levels above you. I recall one time my son and I fought an enemy healer type character to a draw. He couldn't kill us, we couldn't kill him despite 20 minutes of trying between both sides.
Most other level based MMORPG's I've played are designed similarly, and the lower level player's option is to flee or make sure they hunt in out of the way places where they aren't discovered.
Now, what the OP seemed to be asking was in a PVP server environment, why can't people play "fair" and I understand his line of reasoning.
Although a carebear in playstyle, I regularly play on PVP servers for the challenge it adds to generally boring PVE content.
But I don't gank. I dunno, there's not real fun in it to me, knowing I beat someone strictly because of my levels and perhaps knowing that if the odds were more even they'd probably destroy me. (because truth is, I suck at PVP, too old and slow) It's just not fair in my eyes.
But difference between OP and me is i don't expect other people to play the same way i do. There are those who enjoy killing anything viewed as an enemy, and if I'm in a PVP game environment their play style is as valid. For many people they are denying resources or advancement to the other side.
I just try very hard to avoid their attempts to kill me, and most games allow for it. I had no issues on PVP servers in WOW, (back when people actually used to gank you on PVP servers) AION, Rift, etc. Heck, I played EVE for over 3.5 years and had fewer kills in that time than some players get in a couple of days. (But I didn't lose all that many ships in EVE either.)
I do recall AOC being a problem, mostly because I could never read the quest givers text without racing through it w/o reading because I didn't want to be ganked while standing their reading. But still I got a character up into the lower 50's before finally leaving due to boring gameplay more than anything else.
Because of this I will likely roll on a PVE server in SWTOR so I can really enjoy the storyline, and maybe one day reroll on a PVP server,
One final note to the OP, if you are being repetitively being killed you need to find alternate spots to level, or call in friends/realm mates to help, (I did that a lot in Aion) and never, ever send a message to your opponent complaining about their behaviour, they thrive on tears.
In EVE many corporations insist on a policy of saying nothing more to an opponent besides the simple phrase "Good Fight" even when you were rolled 20-1.
Finally, a sensible response to the OP .....
Agreed. There is an obvious difference between a response that is both informative, constructive and yet at the same time, can disagree with the op, but it's done with class and taste and maturity. Like this response. Wish there were more like this rather then the, "you don't like ganking, well go f yourself" responses.
pve players are dictating what pvp is today thats why we have so much instanced pvp. pve players get the pve content they want and then complain about the content pvp'er get even though they dont really like pvp.
If that is true, it's wrong. PVE and PVP are two very different play styles. A player who enjoy PVE but not PVP should respect PVP players for the type of game style they enjoy. And you seem to be one who is very passionate about PVP. I respect that. Honestly. And you and others of this thread have given me a lot to think about.
If PVP playstyle involes ganking and it's a necsssary part of PVP, then I won't be playing PVP much. I simply don't get the need for ganking. I do enjoy faction PVP, war pvp, and so on, but to have a higher level player follow me around and gank me. Maybe I just don't get it. And that is my problem.
But PVE should not dicate PVP content or game style, I agree with you on that point.
There are two major cases:
1. Faction PvP
In this case, being a high level player killing low level players is a meaningful duty of any high level player in the opposing faction. If your own faction's high levels are not protecting your low level players then they are not doing their job and taking responsability for their faction.
Precisely for this reason and the feel of having a real war, three factions open-PvP games are often seen like the ideal of PvP-focused MMORPGs. If you want to gank a lot of low level players, then you are doing your own faction a great favor.
2. Free for all PvP
From my experience here, the joy of ganking low-level players comes out of just trying to get your kill count up (which is fun due to just a number going up), getting a super-evil color on your name (similar to the number argument) or just waiting to see which higher level player or equal level player or group of players will come to stop the killing spree.
Another, less "honourable" one, is the hope that the player you just killed is being whiny in an amusing way. From what I heard, many curse in very broken English: such as telling the ganker that they will do things with their mother.
In other words: the kill of a low level player is not in itself the fun part, instead the fun part comes from what happens after it.
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
It seems none of you are understanding PVP is a FIGHT ( noticei said Fight witch equates to both sides having a chance to win) between 2 or more factions.. Ganking is a high or max lvl character going into the first pvp zone and killing players who no matter what they do could never win and killing them over and over. This is not pvp its a d-bag who would get there ass kicked in a real fight.
People bitch and moan about balance in pvp yet what does it matter win pvp consists of killing ppl 20, 30 40 lvls below you????
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
Since I assume you are talking about free for all PvP games and not faction ones, then I will point out two setbacks with PvE servers:
1. Far less different areas in which you can PvP. Having a different area and adapting your PvP to the new area (such as main player routes, main npc shops, different terrains) is enjoyable.
2. The hunt of world bosses becomes a mess depending on which mob-claiming system the game has. "First hit gets all loot", "Highest dps gets all loot", "the one having aggro on mob gets all loot", etc all have their major problems in a PvE server.
I'm not sure why people are even bringing up PvP or PvE servers. The OP clearly stated he enjoys the PvE aspects of SWTOR, most likely on PvE servers. He compared SWTOR PvE to Aion PvE and since I've played both, instantly recognized his agitation with Aion's so called PvE design. You see, SWTOR has open PvP, even on PvE servers, but its in specific areas only. Meaning people who don't like being ganked while doing missions, like in Aion, can do so in SWOTR without worry.
With that being said, SWTOR along with DAoC and WoW are probably three of only a few games to ever get PvP right, on PvE servers.
well you picked 1 good PVP game
the other 2 are average to bad at best, thank god RIFT exists to make them look half decent
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
And the game which allows that and even rewards it is simply a badly designed game.
We can all vail and lament how the humanity is disgusting and that people are bad, but this will not change one single thing. Just like in real life, rules are there for a reason. Just like in sports, the rules are there for a reason.
A game whose rules allow and even encourage the players to ruin the fun for everybody and ultimately themselves is just a badly designed game. There is nothing mystical or philosophical or even psychological about it.
Too many "open PvP" games think that it is enough just to enable players to kill each other and that's it. Well it's not. It's simple anarchy caused by lazyness and ignorance of the game designers. Take soccer and remove all rules from it except goal scoring, up to and including weapon use, and you'll see what happens. The rules are not there to ruin the fun but to make the game more fun.
The trouble is is that the devs making AAA mmos usually detest and simply do not understand PvP. Their head are still firmly up their wannabe-movie-director asses I see. They've been ganked a few times in EQ and now they hate open PvP but have to include it for the players they secretly consider subhuman psychos. It is almost as if I can hear them now: "Yeah, guess we'll have to open some PvP servers for those nasty people. Who cares. Let them kill each other, they are all gankers anyway."
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
Exactly!!! But the PVPers are arguing their point stating that it is not harrassement but rather a fundemental part of the PVP game style and to accept it. But I do agree with you, I also play PVP on a PVE server, where it's my choice and not forced to.
It does seem childish and harrassing in many cases, but I'm trying to keep an open mind to understand their points. Some are very well stated and that makes me believe that maybe, we just don't understand their game style.
I used to hate cats, then I got one. I can't believe how wrong I was. Just saying that when we close our minds we limit ourselves to other possibilities. From reading a lot of these post by the PVP'ers, I'm thinking most of them are not gankers, and just love the PVP style of game play. I respect that.
It seems none of you are understanding PVP is a FIGHT ( noticei said Fight witch equates to both sides having a chance to win) between 2 or more factions.. Ganking is a high or max lvl character going into the first pvp zone and killing players who no matter what they do could never win and killing them over and over. This is not pvp its a d-bag who would get there ass kicked in a real fight.
People bitch and moan about balance in pvp yet what does it matter win pvp consists of killing ppl 20, 30 40 lvls below you????
In faction mmorpgs, killing opposing faction members regardless of levels is an important method to slow down the power-gaining of enemy factions.
As for games in which there is free for all open pvp: I already gave reasons above for why that can be enjoyable. As for being a douchebag: ksing is the major douchebag problem in PvE servers; that rarely happens in PvP servers.
I've been playing MMO's now since eq1. Years and years and years. And, the one thing I've never enjoyed is being ganked. Who would? I am primarily a PVE player, but I also enjoy the occasional PVP matches (in moderate doses, cuz PVP bores me very quickly. Kill you, kill me, kill you, kill me, rinse and repeat - yawn).
Now before you say .. "just because you don't like PVP doesn't mean everyone does replies", I know, I KNOW!!! I am not saying PVP is bad, wrong, right, etc... it's just not for me. But more power to those who enjoy it. Choice in games is great. Although it does appear that having a good PVE and PVP game together is very difficult, or so it would seem.
Now, this is not about PVE vs PVP. No, this is simply about a specific portion of PVP - open world and ganking.
I remember playin AION for a bit. Was really enjoying it. Then I went into an open world area, and got killed by this player. So I sent him a tell stating, you're good, I admit it, you win. Can I now go and explore. Nope. Killed me a few times afterwards. From that moment on, this player would follow me around and instantly kill me. He was several levels above me. Mr. Gank. I could not understand why a person would enjoy this type of childish game play.
Intersting enough, my bro in law is a psychologist, he feels that this type of behavior is very similar to the 'bully' syndrome in children. They get no respect or love in real live, so they play games to feel strong, mean, tough and thereby .. gank and bully in games.
Needless to say, I quit the game because any game that approvess this type of game play obivously is not for me.
Now I'm enjoying SWTOR. Is it perfect, not even close, but having fun, for now. I also read a lot of hate threads regarding SWTOR not having open world PVP and thereby ganking.
Maybe, SWTOR is yet another example of gaming companies realizing that ganking needs to be removed from game play, completely. If so, I hope more new games catch on to this because I for one, couldn't be happier about it.
Sorry gankers, but maybe, just maybe -- your days are numbered.
Some people have a hard time realizing that world PvP is actually a desired feature for some gamers. Ganking happens to go with that, and I am perfectly fine with it, though I never gank lower-level players myself.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
This echoes most of my sentiments perfectly.
I say most only because I do understand that there are some fights that can't be won and no fight should be expected to be fair.
I wouldn't presume to say that there should be a ruleset banning it on PvP servers though as there are people who do enjoy the chaos found in the effects of ganking.
I don't think that you will see Ganking going away anytime soon regardless of the game in question.
What could probably stand to go away is the level disparities allowed of the attackers.
There is an entire contingent of players on those servers who feel that running around pwning lowbies is acceptable because it happened to them when they were coming up in levels.
In AC, there were huge numbers of players that would hang around starting areas killing and robbing new players on the Darktide server claiming it was tradition.
Wait a minute, aren't there PvE servers where you can't be ganked? If so I really don't see your problem because it seems you have picked a PvP server, where it clearly says it is for open world PvP, and then you are complaining that people are attacking you?
So I understand that you don't like this behaviour but that is why the devs. created the PvE servers. However there are us who actually like the added risk of being killed by players, which are far more dangerous and unpredictable than AI mobs, so why would you want to stop us from having fun when there is clearly another option for you?
I don't think you understood my point. I did pick a PVE server, my post was a resposne to all the complaints of no 'ganking' allowed, a specific portion of PVP.
What I don't understand, is why you would have fun Ganking? So I am not saying stop PVP, what I am saying is make it more fun by simply removing the ganking portion of it. That's all.
Because sometimes when you're ganked... they don't win. Those moments are *why* a lot of us enjoy the risk of being ganked. Do you realize how amazing it feels to turn the tables like that on someone? My sentinel was jumped by a sith assassin and I tried to run, but he wouldn't let me get away... finally I stopped running and went FINE you want a fight you got it buddy!
Some of us enjoy the risk & reward... you only see the risk
I remember playin AION for a bit. Was really enjoying it. Then I went into an open world area, and got killed by this player. So I sent him a tell stating, you're good, I admit it, you win. Can I now go and explore. Nope. Killed me a few times afterwards. From that moment on, this player would follow me around and instantly kill me. He was several levels above me. Mr. Gank. I could not understand why a person would enjoy this type of childish game play.
Just for info: The ganker couldn't read the message you sent him. In Aion you can't send a message to an opposite faction player. Everything you say is displayed in gibberish to them.
Furthermore, more than just for the PVP, RPG lore wise you are the enemy so it is normal for him to hunt you. Of course most reasonable players would just kill you 1 or 2 times at most, especially since you don't get any xp and points after the first kills, and perhaps if he could read the message you sent him he would have stopped. Perhaps not.
But really, it is sad that you didn't know how or didn't want to play this part of the game, because this is one area that brings the community together in mmos: what you do in this case is call your faction and your guild to support you. People and friends will come and help you to get rid of the jackass and this also creates bonds between people.
Such situations are great and amount to 50% of the fun these games provide. It also distracts from the repetitive PVE that can get boring at times.
But if you are the kind of mmo player that doesn't want to interact with the community and plays it like a solo game... it's your loss. Really.
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
This echoes most of my sentiments perfectly.
I say most only because I do understand that there are some fights that can't be won and no fight should be expected to be fair.
I wouldn't presume to say that there should be a ruleset banning it on PvP servers though as there are people who do enjoy the chaos found in the effects of ganking.
I don't think that you will see Ganking going away anytime soon regardless of the game in question.
What could probably stand to go away is the level disparities allowed of the attackers.
There is an entire contingent of players on those servers who feel that running around pwning lowbies is acceptable because it happened to them when they were coming up in levels.
In AC, there were huge numbers of players that would hang around starting areas killing and robbing new players on the Darktide server claiming it was tradition.
A problem with disallowing "level disparities", is that people will start abusing low level players as means to go spy on an opponent or camp different areas. This "immortality" would either force other players to create low level characters as well to drive the alts away, or simply just live with that abuse.
The only good way I see of solving it is by making the game faction-PvP based and making sure there is one system in place so that every low level player matters as long as they are reasonably active. Either that or give a significant reward to people who drive away enemy factions from your low level players. RF Online did it rather well in my opinion, but it was unfortunely plagued by other problems:&.
I remember playin AION for a bit. Was really enjoying it. Then I went into an open world area, and got killed by this player. So I sent him a tell stating, you're good, I admit it, you win. Can I now go and explore. Nope. Killed me a few times afterwards. From that moment on, this player would follow me around and instantly kill me. He was several levels above me. Mr. Gank. I could not understand why a person would enjoy this type of childish game play.
Just for info: The ganker couldn't read the message you sent him. In Aion you can't send a message to an opposite faction player. Everything you say is displayed in gibberish to them.
Furthermore, more than just for the PVP, RPG lore wise you are the enemy so it is normal for him to hunt you. Of course most reasonable players would just kill you 1 or 2 times at most, especially since you don't get any xp and points after the first kills, and perhaps if he could read the message you sent him he would have stopped. Perhaps not.
But really, it is sad that you didn't know how or didn't want to play this part of the game, because this is one area that brings the community together in mmos: what you do in this case is call your faction and your guild to support you. People and friends will come and help you to get rid of the jackass and this also creates bonds between people.
Such situations are great and amount to 50% of the fun these games provide. It also distracts from the repetitive PVE that can get boring at times.
But if you are the kind of mmo player that doesn't want to interact with the community and plays it like a solo game... it's your loss. Really.
WHAT????? Gibberish. Are you serious? Why? I never knew that. Could explain why the player continued to kill me. I mean, as you say , perhaps not, but at least it partially explains it. I thought they were ignoring me, as anyone else would think. What is the reason for this? Not to communicate or share secrets with the enemy I guess. Wow. Thanks.
WHAT????? Gibberish. Are you serious? Why? I never knew that. Could explain why the player continued to kill me. I mean, as you say , perhaps not, but at least it partially explains it. I thought they were ignoring me, as anyone else would think. What is the reason for this? Not to communicate or share secrets with the enemy I guess. Wow. Thanks.
Yes, Elyos and Asmodian don't speak the same language.
There are however translators for the gibberish characters, for example if your search google for "Aion translator" this is one, there are many others:
Originally posted by Angier2758 Some of us enjoy the risk & reward... you only see the risk
Where is the risk for 5 high lvl guys engaging 1 lowbie?
The common misconception of the risk vs reward rubbish - we increase the risk but also increase the rewards to make the risk appealing! Result? Less people are risking because it hits their risk tolerance barrier, those who do are mitigating the risk and people complain further that the rewards are not reflecting the risk.
This way of thinking simply does not work and basically ruins the whole game.
I remember playin AION for a bit. Was really enjoying it. Then I went into an open world area, and got killed by this player. So I sent him a tell stating, you're good, I admit it, you win. Can I now go and explore. Nope. Killed me a few times afterwards. From that moment on, this player would follow me around and instantly kill me. He was several levels above me. Mr. Gank. I could not understand why a person would enjoy this type of childish game play.
Just for info: The ganker couldn't read the message you sent him. In Aion you can't send a message to an opposite faction player. Everything you say is displayed in gibberish to them.
Furthermore, more than just for the PVP, RPG lore wise you are the enemy so it is normal for him to hunt you. Of course most reasonable players would just kill you 1 or 2 times at most, especially since you don't get any xp and points after the first kills, and perhaps if he could read the message you sent him he would have stopped. Perhaps not.
But really, it is sad that you didn't know how or didn't want to play this part of the game, because this is one area that brings the community together in mmos: what you do in this case is call your faction and your guild to support you. People and friends will come and help you to get rid of the jackass and this also creates bonds between people.
Such situations are great and amount to 50% of the fun these games provide. It also distracts from the repetitive PVE that can get boring at times.
But if you are the kind of mmo player that doesn't want to interact with the community and plays it like a solo game... it's your loss. Really.
WHAT????? Gibberish. Are you serious? Why? I never knew that. Could explain why the player continued to kill me. I mean, as you say , perhaps not, but at least it partially explains it. I thought they were ignoring me, as anyone else would think. What is the reason for this? Not to communicate or share secrets with the enemy I guess. Wow. Thanks.
I know extremely little about Aion. So far I understand it is somewhat faction-based, so I will ask this: if the players from opposing faction were going near you and you noticed they were much higher in level, why didn't you run for your life and call for back-up from your own faction?
Some of us enjoy the risk & reward... you only see the risk
Where is the risk for 5 high lvl guys engaging 1 lowbie?
The common misconception of the risk vs reward rubbish - we increase the risk but also increase the rewards to make the risk appealing! Result? Less people are risking because it hits their risk tolerance barrier, those who do are mitigating the risk and people complain further that the rewards are not reflecting the risk.
This way of thinking simply does not work and basically ruins the whole game.
The risk is that lowbie will use his communitive powers to persuade a group of 10 people to hunt those 5 people who came too near that lowbie area.
IMO harrassment is agianest the law for a reason.... ganking is simply a form of virtual harassment. Ganking is not part of the games systems AS INTENDED.
IMO harrassment is agianest the law for a reason.... ganking is simply a form of virtual harassment. Ganking is not part of the games systems AS INTENDED.
If it wasn't something the devs wanted the playerbase to be a part of, it wouldn't be there. It's very simple to make someone never have a PvP flag.
Comments
Finally, a sensible response to the OP .....
Agreed. There is an obvious difference between a response that is both informative, constructive and yet at the same time, can disagree with the op, but it's done with class and taste and maturity. Like this response. Wish there were more like this rather then the, "you don't like ganking, well go f yourself" responses.
There are two major cases:
1. Faction PvP
In this case, being a high level player killing low level players is a meaningful duty of any high level player in the opposing faction. If your own faction's high levels are not protecting your low level players then they are not doing their job and taking responsability for their faction.
Precisely for this reason and the feel of having a real war, three factions open-PvP games are often seen like the ideal of PvP-focused MMORPGs. If you want to gank a lot of low level players, then you are doing your own faction a great favor.
2. Free for all PvP
From my experience here, the joy of ganking low-level players comes out of just trying to get your kill count up (which is fun due to just a number going up), getting a super-evil color on your name (similar to the number argument) or just waiting to see which higher level player or equal level player or group of players will come to stop the killing spree.
Another, less "honourable" one, is the hope that the player you just killed is being whiny in an amusing way. From what I heard, many curse in very broken English: such as telling the ganker that they will do things with their mother.
In other words: the kill of a low level player is not in itself the fun part, instead the fun part comes from what happens after it.
Ganking is not PVP. I enjoy PVP when you actually fight and are challenged. Killing someone severals level below you just because he is there, is just childish, doing repetitevly is harrassement.
Unfortunatly most MMO PVP servers are filled with these kind of players who love killing peoples below them just because they can. That's why i play on a PVE server where you can still PVP but on even ground.
It seems none of you are understanding PVP is a FIGHT ( noticei said Fight witch equates to both sides having a chance to win) between 2 or more factions.. Ganking is a high or max lvl character going into the first pvp zone and killing players who no matter what they do could never win and killing them over and over. This is not pvp its a d-bag who would get there ass kicked in a real fight.
People bitch and moan about balance in pvp yet what does it matter win pvp consists of killing ppl 20, 30 40 lvls below you????
Since I assume you are talking about free for all PvP games and not faction ones, then I will point out two setbacks with PvE servers:
1. Far less different areas in which you can PvP. Having a different area and adapting your PvP to the new area (such as main player routes, main npc shops, different terrains) is enjoyable.
2. The hunt of world bosses becomes a mess depending on which mob-claiming system the game has. "First hit gets all loot", "Highest dps gets all loot", "the one having aggro on mob gets all loot", etc all have their major problems in a PvE server.
well you picked 1 good PVP game
the other 2 are average to bad at best, thank god RIFT exists to make them look half decent
Best PVP is
EVE / UO for FFA
DAOC for large scale objective based
GW for small scale
WOW really?!?!
And the game which allows that and even rewards it is simply a badly designed game.
We can all vail and lament how the humanity is disgusting and that people are bad, but this will not change one single thing. Just like in real life, rules are there for a reason. Just like in sports, the rules are there for a reason.
A game whose rules allow and even encourage the players to ruin the fun for everybody and ultimately themselves is just a badly designed game. There is nothing mystical or philosophical or even psychological about it.
Too many "open PvP" games think that it is enough just to enable players to kill each other and that's it. Well it's not. It's simple anarchy caused by lazyness and ignorance of the game designers. Take soccer and remove all rules from it except goal scoring, up to and including weapon use, and you'll see what happens. The rules are not there to ruin the fun but to make the game more fun.
The trouble is is that the devs making AAA mmos usually detest and simply do not understand PvP. Their head are still firmly up their wannabe-movie-director asses I see. They've been ganked a few times in EQ and now they hate open PvP but have to include it for the players they secretly consider subhuman psychos. It is almost as if I can hear them now: "Yeah, guess we'll have to open some PvP servers for those nasty people. Who cares. Let them kill each other, they are all gankers anyway."
Exactly!!! But the PVPers are arguing their point stating that it is not harrassement but rather a fundemental part of the PVP game style and to accept it. But I do agree with you, I also play PVP on a PVE server, where it's my choice and not forced to.
It does seem childish and harrassing in many cases, but I'm trying to keep an open mind to understand their points. Some are very well stated and that makes me believe that maybe, we just don't understand their game style.
I used to hate cats, then I got one. I can't believe how wrong I was. Just saying that when we close our minds we limit ourselves to other possibilities. From reading a lot of these post by the PVP'ers, I'm thinking most of them are not gankers, and just love the PVP style of game play. I respect that.
In faction mmorpgs, killing opposing faction members regardless of levels is an important method to slow down the power-gaining of enemy factions.
As for games in which there is free for all open pvp: I already gave reasons above for why that can be enjoyable. As for being a douchebag: ksing is the major douchebag problem in PvE servers; that rarely happens in PvP servers.
Some people have a hard time realizing that world PvP is actually a desired feature for some gamers. Ganking happens to go with that, and I am perfectly fine with it, though I never gank lower-level players myself.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
This echoes most of my sentiments perfectly.
I say most only because I do understand that there are some fights that can't be won and no fight should be expected to be fair.
I wouldn't presume to say that there should be a ruleset banning it on PvP servers though as there are people who do enjoy the chaos found in the effects of ganking.
I don't think that you will see Ganking going away anytime soon regardless of the game in question.
What could probably stand to go away is the level disparities allowed of the attackers.
There is an entire contingent of players on those servers who feel that running around pwning lowbies is acceptable because it happened to them when they were coming up in levels.
In AC, there were huge numbers of players that would hang around starting areas killing and robbing new players on the Darktide server claiming it was tradition.
Because sometimes when you're ganked... they don't win. Those moments are *why* a lot of us enjoy the risk of being ganked. Do you realize how amazing it feels to turn the tables like that on someone? My sentinel was jumped by a sith assassin and I tried to run, but he wouldn't let me get away... finally I stopped running and went FINE you want a fight you got it buddy!
Some of us enjoy the risk & reward... you only see the risk
Just for info: The ganker couldn't read the message you sent him. In Aion you can't send a message to an opposite faction player. Everything you say is displayed in gibberish to them.
Furthermore, more than just for the PVP, RPG lore wise you are the enemy so it is normal for him to hunt you. Of course most reasonable players would just kill you 1 or 2 times at most, especially since you don't get any xp and points after the first kills, and perhaps if he could read the message you sent him he would have stopped. Perhaps not.
But really, it is sad that you didn't know how or didn't want to play this part of the game, because this is one area that brings the community together in mmos: what you do in this case is call your faction and your guild to support you. People and friends will come and help you to get rid of the jackass and this also creates bonds between people.
Such situations are great and amount to 50% of the fun these games provide. It also distracts from the repetitive PVE that can get boring at times.
But if you are the kind of mmo player that doesn't want to interact with the community and plays it like a solo game... it's your loss. Really.
A problem with disallowing "level disparities", is that people will start abusing low level players as means to go spy on an opponent or camp different areas. This "immortality" would either force other players to create low level characters as well to drive the alts away, or simply just live with that abuse.
The only good way I see of solving it is by making the game faction-PvP based and making sure there is one system in place so that every low level player matters as long as they are reasonably active. Either that or give a significant reward to people who drive away enemy factions from your low level players. RF Online did it rather well in my opinion, but it was unfortunely plagued by other problems:&.
WHAT????? Gibberish. Are you serious? Why? I never knew that. Could explain why the player continued to kill me. I mean, as you say , perhaps not, but at least it partially explains it. I thought they were ignoring me, as anyone else would think. What is the reason for this? Not to communicate or share secrets with the enemy I guess. Wow. Thanks.
Yes, Elyos and Asmodian don't speak the same language.
There are however translators for the gibberish characters, for example if your search google for "Aion translator" this is one, there are many others:
http://www.mybloodyfinger.com/aion/
Where is the risk for 5 high lvl guys engaging 1 lowbie?
The common misconception of the risk vs reward rubbish - we increase the risk but also increase the rewards to make the risk appealing! Result? Less people are risking because it hits their risk tolerance barrier, those who do are mitigating the risk and people complain further that the rewards are not reflecting the risk.
This way of thinking simply does not work and basically ruins the whole game.
ok the way i read it.
he doesnt like ganks. being killed by people so high above your lvl that you have no chance of anything but dieing. rinse repeat.
pvp is fine when you can actualy do stuff. you get to use your skills, they work on the people trying to hit you.
I know extremely little about Aion. So far I understand it is somewhat faction-based, so I will ask this: if the players from opposing faction were going near you and you noticed they were much higher in level, why didn't you run for your life and call for back-up from your own faction?
The risk is that lowbie will use his communitive powers to persuade a group of 10 people to hunt those 5 people who came too near that lowbie area.
People still make threads like this?
If you don't like to get ganked, play on a PVE server. It's not like they can't do the instanced PvP content.
tl;dr - It's fine, L2P.
.. But in a good way.
IMO harrassment is agianest the law for a reason.... ganking is simply a form of virtual harassment. Ganking is not part of the games systems AS INTENDED.
If it wasn't something the devs wanted the playerbase to be a part of, it wouldn't be there. It's very simple to make someone never have a PvP flag.
See: PVE Servers.
.. But in a good way.
The problem isnt the ganking itself, but the harsh penalities that come with it.
I know a lot of people that dispised to level on pvp servers but enjoyed as hell to get ganked several times a day at DC Universe's pvp server.