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My Commentary to Bioware When I Cancelled My Subscription
Ecnali
Member CommonPosts: 49
I just cancelled my SWTOR subscription. I hope it doesn't come off as mean or harsh. These are, for me anyway, legitimate grievances. It's very lengthy. They asked, I provided my reasons. Let the flaming begin!
My comments to Bioware as to why I cancelled my subscription:
Actually, I love your game, at least, the Story Line, the acting, the ease of leveling. But there are a few things which are major annoyances. The first being the inability to place my quick slot bars where I want, the inability to move any panel to a place I want, and the fact that when I open a panel, and then open another panel and then a third, two panels move around on their own and one closes. I opened them for a reason; I'd like them all open. Also, I find that I've had to reset my chat rooms every time I log in, I've had to reset some of my preferences every time I log in. Basically, your HUD/UI elements were poorly designed - for me. What I would have liked is the ability to 'move' my 'target' to be in the the top center of the screen; my map to be in the top right hand corner, my chat rooms to be in my lower left - basically I want to be able to position the HUD elements myself where I want them. The fact that my character panel is tied to the bottom of the center quickslot bars as well as my target panel drive me up the wall. I really wish Bioware had taken the time to look at other MMOs; consider Lord of the Rings Online. In LOTRO, you bring up your inventory, the vault, or your character sheet, and some you can resize, all can be moved to ones favorite spot, and after you close it, it then reopens just where you left it, i.e. the window pops back in the shape and form where you just left it. Also in LOTRO, the quick slot bars can be moved wherever you want, can be horizontal or vertical, and four of the quick slot bars (the first four) are tied to the 'regular numbers', 'shift' + numbers, 'ctrl' + numbers, and 'alt' + numbers. with two other quickslot bars that you can hot key on your own. Plus the pet quick slot bar can be moved wherever you want. In SWTOR you can't even move the pet bar skills within the pet slot bar - they are stuck where SWTOR placed them.
The other major issue I have with SWTOR is crafting, which is abysmal. I only say this as I come from the Star Wars Galaxies way of crafting and every other MMO crafting system is just bad in comparison to SWG's. SWTOR is just another crafting WoW clone; not as poorly designed as the Rift crafting system, but not nearly as elegant as the LOTRO crafting system, which, let's be blunt, is yet another simplistic and mind numbingly tedious WoW clone of crafting. Also, It's very annoying that I have to 'pay' to run missions instead of being able to quest or harvest or craft EVERYTHING on my own, or have my crew do it. Yes, I understand that the gathering skills are harvestable, but the missioning skills cost coin, and at the lower levels, it's serious coin. I craft to make coin, not to spend coin.
Bottom line, all these issues are issues that I realize cannot be addressed by Bioware; you are stuck with the system you made, at least when it comes to crafting. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to remake the HUD/UI elements to moveable and somewhat resizeable, but I seriously doubt that the effort to do that is forthcoming or high on your list. So, I'm not going to play the game. I'll keep my eyes and ears open though and hopefully IF you decide to ... 'open' up the HUD/UI elements to 'dealer's choice', I will probably come back to the game. Good luck! I really loved KOTOR and KOTORII, and hope that your subscription base for SWTOR doesn't immediately halve by the end of the first three months. As I said, the story is great, questing is great, acting is great; but the HUD/UI elements for me make the game unplayable. That, and the fact that one cannot search the forums is something I find to be very untenable, and in my opinion completely unreasonable and unprofessional. Good luck, and may the Force be with you.
Comments
Good post, you adressed the issues you had in a clear manner.
I don't agree with everything, but I like the fact that you did this when you quit. I really feel that Bioware will listen to their gamers...unlike Blizzard.
Well, I won't stop playing the game any time soon but I do agree with your reasons and actually feel the same, except that they arent game breakers for me.
The crafting as you said wont probably change anytime soon but I have failth in some UI changes sooner rather than later.
Hey OP, that was a well thought out response. I don't entirely agree with you though and think you might be cutting things off too quickly. I am certain a more flexible UI is going to be in a patch soon. It is something we all ask for, though, for me, is not game breaking in anyway.
On the crafting, to each thier own but I do not agree with your position and rather enjoy the crafting in the game.
Regardless, you did the right thing in crafting a thoughtful response to why you cancelled your sub. I wish you luck in finding a game that is for you.
Bioware's response:
"Could we have that in cinematics?"
OK, joking. I did read that. Agree on many points, though some are not as important to me and others are more so.
Try to lvl up one character with three gathering professions.
By lvl 20 you will have around 250k just by selling the mats on the GTM.
Crafting in this game is pointless, the endgame daily gear is a hundred times better than the best crafted gear.
Edit: In a game with good crafting and a real economy, selling the raw materials would be the worst money maker, not the best
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
I agree except that it's not a gamebreaker for me.
Also I don't think the crafting system is a WoW clone... that's being a little simplistic.
tl;dr
I quit because of the UI and crafting. Thanks for sharing.
^ dunno about that..... also I have a feeling they haven't implemented legendary craftables yet.
When I closed my subscription I was a lot less eloquent, I just wrote, "I can't find it in me to pay monthly for what is essentially a single player game.". I was a bit more descriptive than that, detailing the fact that companions make duoing/grouping rather pointless, the space game is a solo experience, and that with the exception of the group/flashpoint encounters, the whole questing path is soloable.
Seriously. When I start paying monthly for a single player game then the state of gaming has finally hit an all time low, fueled by corporate greed. And before others turn up to whine, saying that grouping is a major part, I call bull**** on that. It's at best an hour out of every 12.
Well the problem is certainly you, not the game. If the group content is there, and very similar quality to the other games of the same genre, then how is not a personal issue?
Unless you also said the same thing to blizzard and trion when you quit their games as well. I cant think of an MMO released since FFXI where the leveling wasnt focused almost entirely on soloing.
Did they respond with, "Well, I suggest actually making some friends?" Seriously, every MMO will be a single player game if you don't actually go out and PLAY with people. I'm having a great time in this game, and it's because I have a group of people that I run heroic missions with every day, as well as flashpoints. Of course you can play the game solo if you want to, because every themepark worth their salt will allow that to happen in order to appeal to the casual masses, which make up a substantial part of the player base these days. But you only have yourself to blame if you take that option when you don't want to.
This game gives you MORE, not less, opportunity and reason to group with people. Just because you refuse to actually do that isn't the fault of the developer. The whole "Single Player RPG" argument is absolutely silly and baseless.
These are gamebreakers for you? Wow, tough crowd.
Crafting in this game is awesome and this coming from someone who dabbles in crafting but always ends up behind my character's level in WoW, EQ2, Lotro, etc. For once I was able to max out crafting before endgame and every level I was able to use something I was crafting, unlike other games where I just craft an item for skill gains. Plus, NOT having to do it myself and having my companions do it is just awesome, less boring downtime crafting something.
The UI, moot point since it's the biggest pet peeve for many like you and obviously is their number one priority for changes. Learn to adapt, I have and I enjoy all that you stated but I'm not going to let it ruin the game for me. It's not THAT bad. It's ten times better than AoC's or Lotro's UI in looks and information given.
Anyway, I just don't see how these 2 points would make someone quit, it's like someone returning a shirt to the store because it had a string hanging from it.
I have to agree with the OP just aren't gamebreakers for me. Makes no sense whatsoever that in this day and age BW would not allow for customizable UI. Really shortsighted.
Also, crafting in this game really is a joke. It is like the complete opposite of EQ2 crafting when that game launched. Whereas EQ2 went overboard on the crafting aspect this game went in the entirely opposite direction being as simplistic and uninspiring as can be. Feels like it was simply tacked on.
Although least it isn't comically bad like Warhammer or essentially useless besides for exploiting purposes like AOC was at launch.
I will say that I do actually use a few items I have crafted so at least it serves a purpose albeit rather minor. This is not a game for a someone that enjoys crafting in mmos. Not by a long shot.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
UI = everyone agrees and id be shocked if its not greatly improved within the next month or two. We havent had out first real patch yet and if its not in the first patch Im betting it will be in the second. if not, you will have lots of company in the MMO unemployment line.
As for crafting, most like the system. I like the fact its less mindless than WoW/Rift/LOTRO. The endgame gear needs serious work, that we all agree on. But as Im leveling I make better gear via crafting than I get via questing in most cases, for both me and my companion.
From what sources tell me...good things are coming, and Bioware is actively listening.
OP check back in a couple months
I agree with you about the UI. It's a not big enough reason for me to quit, but to each his own.
I disagree with you about the crafting. I love the crafting and gathering in this game.
Er, because the grouping content in other games is equally abysmal so its really not personal at all, bad group mechanics are just plain bad, regardless how many MMO's saddle us with them.
Back to the OP, he's never going to find a game that makes him happy, particularly with regards to crafting. SWG broke the mold in that regard and we'll likely never see a MMO that sort of in depth crafting ever again, was a once in a lifetime experience apparently.
All you can really do these days is play MMORPG's for what they have that is fun to you, and not focus on what they lack (because they lack oh so much) and enjoy them for the month or two that they are entertaining.
The era of the long term MMO experience is probably dead as well.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think EQ2's system is better on paper than in practice. Its agonizing to level crafting. Its going 4-5-6, 4-5-6, 5-6-4, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 6-4-5, etc for hours. And they made it so the most useful stuff (the only stuff worth using at max level) is now shared amongst crafters.
Its awesome all the stuff they added in while Domino was the tradeskill dev (epic quests and the like) but overall the eq2 crafting system isnt all that great. Vanguards is better (but also tedious to level) and swg was obviously the MMO that NAILED it.
While it was tacked on, so was WoW, LOTRO and Rift. At least its a step above those games IMO.
Well, what would be an example of bad group mechanics? And what would be an example of good group mechanics? And please keep in mind the purpose of these games: To appeal to the largest segment of population in order to bring in the most money. In other words...making the game as enjoyable for casuals as it is for the hardcore players. So, unless you want to be considered a "niche" game, you better have aspects in place to appeal to both segments of the gaming population.
Should have included a tl;dr summary tbh.
Note the second paragraph. If he dislikes grouping in Themepark MMOs then i could see his point. There hasnt been better grouping Mechanics in an MMO since 1999, and FFXI was the last one that was close. But i find grouping fun in the WoW/EQ2 type games as well.
And how exactly do you 'go out and play with people' if the other people don't want to go out and play either? The whole game is solo based, you don't need another person because you have a companion that does the same job, and if you can't manage the quests like that then your gameplay skills need some serious work.
Quest chains kill grouping. Fact. You have to find someone who is on the exact same place on the exact same chain or it's not going to work. You either have to wait for them to catch up or vice versa and if you can play the game alone, why would people want to do that? I suppose it's good if you have friends that play MMO's, but the friends I have neither have the time nor the incination to join me in them.
So with that said, how does this game give you more reasons to group with people? Flashpoints and Group quests are the only reasons to group, but they're so few and far between, as well as only doable once per day, that they're hardly worth mentioning. Besides the fact that if you've already done them, your quest chains have lead you to other group quests and flashpoints, so in effect it becomes just another one time quest like the rest of the chains.
Please, enlighten me, how is this game giving me so much more reason than any other to group with people? What am I missing? And please.. don't say social points.
Thanks for the effort and your post, hopefully BW will listen. The Devs ran and hid in beta after we told them repeatedly, for months, to make the UI changeable, modable or even scalable. Maybe after people leave and subs decline they'll take the hint.
"Most successful" F2P MMO in history is what it's beginning to look like.
There are far more group quests in SWTOR than WoW and Rift combined. And no, most people can not solo a heroic 2 at level. And no one can solo a Heroic 4. While the incentive my not necessarily be there, the option at least is, which is more than one can say about the similar styled games.
Also, its more efficient to do the regular quest chains grouped.