The fact that WoW and EVE are still top dogs after all these years pretty much proves that it's the developers who have been failing. The criticism on these forums simply reflects that.
People don't expect all the things the OP listed, just an enjoyble alternative to what is already out there. Players are generally fairly tolerant about balance, content and game stability for a new release as long as they can see some potential. But naturally if an MMO is very similar to something that's already out there and works fine, those factors become fair game.
It is indeed possible that the "blame" may be somewhat divided between customers (expecting everything) and developers (not delivering enough). That's almost a sure bet.
But when we're running at zero-for-the-last-seven-years--is every developer in the world terrible, slow, lazy, uncreative?
Or are the players just all too eager to light the pile of sticks around the stake the dev is chained to?
I think there is only a very small minority that like to light bonfires just to watch new MMOs burn. Most would love to see a new MMO that really delivers. However, I have noticed that a lot of people get hyped to an absurd degree about each, and seemingly every, new release. Perhaps that frenzied anticipation does lead to a more vitriolic response when the new game turns out to be nothing special.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Vegetto The easiest solution is often the best.
So your proposal is to convert a themepark to a sandbox at the cap? Okay, but you can't see the majoity of your senior players objecting to suddenly shifting the game to an entirely different one?
No, i meant in general. SWTOR can't change now, it is what it is, unless they do a 'New Game Experience'
Well they seem to be drooling over GW2. But I suspect they're going to be upset once they play it and realize the Devs were just over exaggerating about feature X. Then they can head on over to MMORPG.com and complain about it.
Circle of life in the world of mmos.
Hard to exaggerate about features people have tested at shows, that's one thing people always forget - GW2 was not some secret project that no one knows anything about, despite how you try to paint it as such. I've not heard one source say they've lied or exaggerated about a single thing so far. Does that mean people expect the game to be perfect? No, but we can safely expect the game to be what it says it's going to be.
I disagree, Looking here I am curious to know if you all have read this.
They basically say that they have Kill X quest. Whether or not the events that follow are insignificant if they end up being, "Well you failed that DE now try it again only this time at the castel.".
You obviously have reading comprehension problems, and wow, what a shock that you disagree.
Well they seem to be drooling over GW2. But I suspect they're going to be upset once they play it and realize the Devs were just over exaggerating about feature X. Then they can head on over to MMORPG.com and complain about it.
Circle of life in the world of mmos.
Hard to exaggerate about features people have tested at shows, that's one thing people always forget - GW2 was not some secret project that no one knows anything about, despite how you try to paint it as such. I've not heard one source say they've lied or exaggerated about a single thing so far. Does that mean people expect the game to be perfect? No, but we can safely expect the game to be what it says it's going to be.
A couple dozen people testing out a new feature in a controlled environment doesn't prove a thing. When the game is released and the servers are stuffed for with hundreds of thousands of players, we'll see how it all works out. A simple stroll down memory lane will show you that no MMO has lived up to it's hype.
Yeah, you're right. No one's going to enjoy GW2 because other MMOs have tried to stick to WoW's design and sucked monkey balls. Do you have a church where I could give donations for this kind of wisdom?
Well they seem to be drooling over GW2. But I suspect they're going to be upset once they play it and realize the Devs were just over exaggerating about feature X. Then they can head on over to MMORPG.com and complain about it.
Circle of life in the world of mmos.
Hard to exaggerate about features people have tested at shows, that's one thing people always forget - GW2 was not some secret project that no one knows anything about, despite how you try to paint it as such. I've not heard one source say they've lied or exaggerated about a single thing so far. Does that mean people expect the game to be perfect? No, but we can safely expect the game to be what it says it's going to be.
A couple dozen people testing out a new feature in a controlled environment doesn't prove a thing. When the game is released and the servers are stuffed for with hundreds of thousands of players, we'll see how it all works out. A simple stroll down memory lane will show you that no MMO has lived up to it's hype.
Yeah, you're right. No one's going to enjoy GW2 because other MMOs have tried to stick to WoW's design and sucked monkey balls. Do you have a church where I could give donations for this kind of wisdom?
Well they seem to be drooling over GW2. But I suspect they're going to be upset once they play it and realize the Devs were just over exaggerating about feature X. Then they can head on over to MMORPG.com and complain about it.
Circle of life in the world of mmos.
Hard to exaggerate about features people have tested at shows, that's one thing people always forget - GW2 was not some secret project that no one knows anything about, despite how you try to paint it as such. I've not heard one source say they've lied or exaggerated about a single thing so far. Does that mean people expect the game to be perfect? No, but we can safely expect the game to be what it says it's going to be.
I disagree, Looking here I am curious to know if you all have read this.
They basically say that they have Kill X quest. Whether or not the events that follow are insignificant if they end up being, "Well you failed that DE now try it again only this time at the castel.".
You obviously have reading comprehension problems, and wow, what a shock that you disagree.
what happens when you fail a dynamic event, in the case of the one posted the castel gets over ran by zombies if you fail to kill them, is irralavent when what you're doing is killing X amount of zombies the whole time.
Anet needs to be more straight forward when it comes to DE Imo.
No, I understand that going by the past, GW2 will be a major disappointment to people because of that fact. You're a genius, I think I already said that.
Well they seem to be drooling over GW2. But I suspect they're going to be upset once they play it and realize the Devs were just over exaggerating about feature X. Then they can head on over to MMORPG.com and complain about it.
Circle of life in the world of mmos.
Hard to exaggerate about features people have tested at shows, that's one thing people always forget - GW2 was not some secret project that no one knows anything about, despite how you try to paint it as such. I've not heard one source say they've lied or exaggerated about a single thing so far. Does that mean people expect the game to be perfect? No, but we can safely expect the game to be what it says it's going to be.
I disagree, Looking here I am curious to know if you all have read this.
They basically say that they have Kill X quest. Whether or not the events that follow are insignificant if they end up being, "Well you failed that DE now try it again only this time at the castel.".
You obviously have reading comprehension problems, and wow, what a shock that you disagree.
what happens when you fail a dynamic event, in the case of the one posted the castel gets over ran by zombies if you fail to kill them, is irralavent when what you're doing is killing X amount of zombies the whole time.
Anet needs to be more straight forward when it comes to DE Imo.
Why? They're dynamic, meaning that they can change at any time. If you arrive either at the beginning or the end of a DE, you won't be killing the same amount of zombies that another person has, and your rewards could be drastically different, nor are there any static NPC quest givers, nor are there a set number of zombies to kill. He's not saying that there are Kill "X" quests, if you read it more carefully you would see that, but I think people are tired of trying to explain things to a troll.
I haven’t read ever post yet, so if this is a repeat I apologies. I think the fault lies with the NDA. I think the public thinks these games just haven’t come far enough before being released. Now I haven’t looked in to Mincraft, but from the few articles I’ve read, The public was along for the developmental ride, may not A to Z probably more like L to Z. But that witness to accomplishment lead to trust and certainty in the product. Now I’m not saying there should be an open beta right from Alpha. But video’s of actual QA testing, nothing scripted or manufactured for PR purposes. And maybe weekend hands on invitationals of 3000, say 1000 each day Fri, Sat, and Sun. After the first one they may come back and say, “Its a small empty world, but I found my avatar responsive to the controls.”
My Number 1 concern or issue with a game is how it feels in my hands. If a game had a performance issue back in 2008 that wasn’t identified, or worse was and went ignored. Then that house deserves all that it gets. Imagine baking a cake and leaving out the salt and sugar, I’m not talking substitute I mean leave out or ignore. In the end it may look like a cake but it sure wont taste any good. Long before the game get complicated it should be test driven, and that ride should be smooth and flawless. Then it must be protected.
Then you move on to content. Then every step of the way the Devs can say we are gonna do this and why. If the reason is sound and technically valid it will go over well with the public. But if every reason is “well its cheaper”, and I don’t mean make up some fake reason to hide “well its cheaper”. The may say sure go ahead and spend that money on something else, or they more likely will say go ahead and make your cut rate game and I hope your kids enjoy playing with it.
We don’t want the competition to see what we have. If the public plays it before it’s released, why would they buy it? We don’t care what they want or think, they’ll take what we give them and like it. None of these are valid business practices, but they are whats in place. A games customers should know how far a game has come, and how much effort is being made on their behalf. True confidence building is what is needed here. Gamers don’t trust game houses, and I’m sorry but that is for good reason. I see full disclosure as the only way to earn it.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I don't understand the mentality that staying quiet will help this floundering genre.
I don't understand the mentality that makes you believe you're helping. Is it just hubris?
If enough people voice their displeasure - which mainly should be done with their wallets,but it also doesnt hurt to come here and voice your opinion in case anyone in the industry is listening - then yes,it does help.if the current formula is becoming stale(which I believe it is) then the industry needs to know about it and then proceed back to the drawing board. OP: if features have already been out in past MMOs then yes,I expect those features to be ready to go in a AAA release.people are spending their money,if companies want it from us then they're going to have to step it up and deliver.In terms of a themepark MMO release like ToR,they had so much canvas to draw from with the past 10 years of the same ol sh*t and yet the game has bare minimum features.Today,you won't be keeping customers doing that.
See... that right there just isn't true in regards to SWTOR. Do you really expect developers to take anyone on this site seriously when they say things like that? Honestly, if I were an MMO developer, I would not come to this site for anything. All you find here is negativity. You have to literally dig through hundreds and hundreds of hate posts before you find any real constructive criticism.
I think it's true.. ToR released with not much going for it as a "AAA title".
I thought the features were pretty lax for all that money in years in development too. I mean, no choice of starting area? Come on. Their own linear focus on story-telling crippled replay valule for me..
Comments
I think there is only a very small minority that like to light bonfires just to watch new MMOs burn. Most would love to see a new MMO that really delivers. However, I have noticed that a lot of people get hyped to an absurd degree about each, and seemingly every, new release. Perhaps that frenzied anticipation does lead to a more vitriolic response when the new game turns out to be nothing special.
Okay, but you can't see the majoity of your senior players objecting to suddenly shifting the game to an entirely different one?
No, i meant in general. SWTOR can't change now, it is what it is, unless they do a 'New Game Experience'
You obviously have reading comprehension problems, and wow, what a shock that you disagree.
Yeah, you're right. No one's going to enjoy GW2 because other MMOs have tried to stick to WoW's design and sucked monkey balls. Do you have a church where I could give donations for this kind of wisdom?
Stumped?
what happens when you fail a dynamic event, in the case of the one posted the castel gets over ran by zombies if you fail to kill them, is irralavent when what you're doing is killing X amount of zombies the whole time.
Anet needs to be more straight forward when it comes to DE Imo.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
No, I understand that going by the past, GW2 will be a major disappointment to people because of that fact. You're a genius, I think I already said that.
Why? They're dynamic, meaning that they can change at any time. If you arrive either at the beginning or the end of a DE, you won't be killing the same amount of zombies that another person has, and your rewards could be drastically different, nor are there any static NPC quest givers, nor are there a set number of zombies to kill. He's not saying that there are Kill "X" quests, if you read it more carefully you would see that, but I think people are tired of trying to explain things to a troll.
I haven’t read ever post yet, so if this is a repeat I apologies. I think the fault lies with the NDA. I think the public thinks these games just haven’t come far enough before being released. Now I haven’t looked in to Mincraft, but from the few articles I’ve read, The public was along for the developmental ride, may not A to Z probably more like L to Z. But that witness to accomplishment lead to trust and certainty in the product. Now I’m not saying there should be an open beta right from Alpha. But video’s of actual QA testing, nothing scripted or manufactured for PR purposes. And maybe weekend hands on invitationals of 3000, say 1000 each day Fri, Sat, and Sun. After the first one they may come back and say, “Its a small empty world, but I found my avatar responsive to the controls.”
My Number 1 concern or issue with a game is how it feels in my hands. If a game had a performance issue back in 2008 that wasn’t identified, or worse was and went ignored. Then that house deserves all that it gets. Imagine baking a cake and leaving out the salt and sugar, I’m not talking substitute I mean leave out or ignore. In the end it may look like a cake but it sure wont taste any good. Long before the game get complicated it should be test driven, and that ride should be smooth and flawless. Then it must be protected.
Then you move on to content. Then every step of the way the Devs can say we are gonna do this and why. If the reason is sound and technically valid it will go over well with the public. But if every reason is “well its cheaper”, and I don’t mean make up some fake reason to hide “well its cheaper”. The may say sure go ahead and spend that money on something else, or they more likely will say go ahead and make your cut rate game and I hope your kids enjoy playing with it.
We don’t want the competition to see what we have. If the public plays it before it’s released, why would they buy it? We don’t care what they want or think, they’ll take what we give them and like it. None of these are valid business practices, but they are whats in place. A games customers should know how far a game has come, and how much effort is being made on their behalf. True confidence building is what is needed here. Gamers don’t trust game houses, and I’m sorry but that is for good reason. I see full disclosure as the only way to earn it.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I don't understand the mentality that makes you believe you're helping. Is it just hubris?
If enough people voice their displeasure - which mainly should be done with their wallets,but it also doesnt hurt to come here and voice your opinion in case anyone in the industry is listening - then yes,it does help.if the current formula is becoming stale(which I believe it is) then the industry needs to know about it and then proceed back to the drawing board. OP: if features have already been out in past MMOs then yes,I expect those features to be ready to go in a AAA release.people are spending their money,if companies want it from us then they're going to have to step it up and deliver.In terms of a themepark MMO release like ToR,they had so much canvas to draw from with the past 10 years of the same ol sh*t and yet the game has bare minimum features.Today,you won't be keeping customers doing that.
See... that right there just isn't true in regards to SWTOR. Do you really expect developers to take anyone on this site seriously when they say things like that? Honestly, if I were an MMO developer, I would not come to this site for anything. All you find here is negativity. You have to literally dig through hundreds and hundreds of hate posts before you find any real constructive criticism.
I think it's true.. ToR released with not much going for it as a "AAA title".I thought the features were pretty lax for all that money in years in development too. I mean, no choice of starting area? Come on. Their own linear focus on story-telling crippled replay valule for me..
Simple idea : If a game company said its going to give us Feature A , then they better give me Feature A that is finished.
I don't care about Feature B and how good it is, unless Feature A that was promised is in actual working order.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.