If descriptive names are no big deal, why do casuals insist on calling coop rpgs mmos? Just so they can feel good and pretend like they are playing MMOs? Casuals are just wannabe elitists, just like all those middle class people that go to the opera to be like rich people. "Look at us we play MMOs in persistent worlds!" At least for once in their useless lazy lives they can make the claim to using their imagination...
Except they still are MMOs, taking place in a persistent world.
Just because they optimize for the interesting parts of MMO gameplay and shave off the undesirable doesn't make them magically not have massive player counts in persistent worlds.
What interesting MMO gameplay? They are using lobby based or at best guildwars style gameplay and some MOBA arenas. Those are not MMO features. Guildwars fucking admits its not an MMO.
You are right though they have a few persistent areas where people barely interact at all. So I guess we can call them MMOs if we think that that is an acceptable example.
This whole argument has always been about definitions. You have a definition so broad as to be entirely meaningless and useless and I have one you can apply practically to differentiate between different experiences.
You say MMOs and I would rather call that stuff MOs.
What interesting MMO gameplay? They are using lobby based or at best guildwars style gameplay and some MOBA arenas. Those are not MMO features. Guildwars fucking admits its not an MMO.
You are right though they have a few persistent areas where people barely interact at all. So I guess we can call them MMOs if we think that that is an acceptable example.
This whole argument has always been about definitions. You have a definition so broad as to be entirely meaningless and useless and I have one you can apply practically to differentiate between different experiences.
You say MMOs and I would rather call that stuff MOs.
Who gives a rats ass except for some purist minority? They are close enough for the rest of us and so they are called MMORPGs. Majority undestands and continue on with their lives happily. Why can't you? It is your problem not ours.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
What interesting MMO gameplay? They are using lobby based or at best guildwars style gameplay and some MOBA arenas. Those are not MMO features. Guildwars fucking admits its not an MMO.
You are right though they have a few persistent areas where people barely interact at all. So I guess we can call them MMOs if we think that that is an acceptable example.
This whole argument has always been about definitions. You have a definition so broad as to be entirely meaningless and useless and I have one you can apply practically to differentiate between different experiences.
You say MMOs and I would rather call that stuff MOs.
Who gives a rats ass except for some purist minority? They are close enough for the rest of us and so they are called MMORPGs. Majority undestands and continue on with their lives happily. Why can't you? It is your problem not ours.
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk "Depth" and "complexity" are two commonly used terms in game design theory. I believe there is a good article (on Gamasutra, or somewheres) explaining the difference. In short, "complexity" is the number of game design elements while "depth" is the number of ways these elements can interact...
Good points and thanks for sharing. I agree, give me depth!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Now wouldn't that be a grand ol' time?
They are not pretending anything. All they want is to play a good game. That is it. MMORPGs became big when they started to be better as games, not as simulators. The small minority had little to do with that.
I never liked old MMOs because they sucked as games and I'm a gamer. I would also much rather play a pen & paper rpg for that "world feel" and roleplay.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
" I PAY 15 A MOUTH! I SHOULDENT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GO IN HERE! CHANGE IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!"
You do know the word is "month?" It wouldn't bother me if it was a simple typo but reading it for the third time is no longer funny.
Is that what you do? Go around searching posts and correcting peoples spelling? If you have nothing to add to this dissusion then take the fuck off ass. i hate people like you.
I like to read, not post. People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult. If you don't want to look like an idiot, learn to spell your language.
" I PAY 15 A MOUTH! I SHOULDENT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GO IN HERE! CHANGE IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!"
You do know the word is "month?" It wouldn't bother me if it was a simple typo but reading it for the third time is no longer funny.
Is that what you do? Go around searching posts and correcting peoples spelling? If you have nothing to add to this dissusion then take the fuck off ass. i hate people like you.
I like to read, not post. People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult. If you don't want to look like an idiot, learn to spell your language.
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Now wouldn't that be a grand ol' time?
They are not pretending anything. All they want is to play a good game. That is it. MMORPGs became big when they started to be better as games, not as simulators. The small minority had little to do with that.
I never liked old MMOs because they sucked as games and I'm a gamer. I would also much rather play a pen & paper rpg for that "world feel" and roleplay.
My Japanese teacher explained it thusly:
"Some people are really in love with the IDEA of learning Japanese but they are not too keen on the reality."
So it is with co op or single player focused "MMOs" full of instances and phasing.
The people this thread was about like the idea of playing MMOs, probably imagining a scene out of LotR, and of course they are also the people that have never read the books or only did so when they movies came out and whined about 200 pages of walking.
But of course the reality is that its not always like that. LotR movies showed only the most exciting parts of the books which showed only the more exciting parts of middle earth and they focused you on the heroes instead of say, the black smiths or the civilians or the soldiers even getting massacred on the field of battle. And of course the movie only lasted a few hours. So they went to MMOs expecting the experience to be the same as watching a movie except that it kept going and of course there are thousands expecting to be the hero. Well tough shit. That's what single player games were for. Except of course its not as cool as it was in the movie even there.
Honestly its like the people on this website don't understand basic psychology like false consciousness and self deception.
I like to read, not post. People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult. If you don't want to look like an idiot, learn to spell your language.
LOL .. you want to play grammar police? May be you should learn to write properly in ENGLISH first.
"learn to spell IN your langauge"
"People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult" ????
"is poorer than mine ... was in elementary school .. make it quite difficult" .. have you heard of sentence structure?
If descriptive names are no big deal, why do casuals insist on calling coop rpgs mmos? Just so they can feel good and pretend like they are playing MMOs? Casuals are just wannabe elitists, just like all those middle class people that go to the opera to be like rich people. "Look at us we play MMOs in persistent worlds!" At least for once in their useless lazy lives they can make the claim to using their imagination...
LOL .. who is insisting on anything? You are the only one who is insisting the term CORPG should be used. The market just flow and evolve. Few in the world cares about labels on games. Most casuals never heard of CORPG. If they learn that WOW is a MMORPG, it is already a revelation to them.
The developers, retailers and everyone involves in the business has NO incentives to confuse them by adding more terms. You place too much emphasis on a FORUM where only a very minority of the casual even are aware of.
And now you are calling them names like "lazy"??? More then not, they have BUSY LIVES. And that is why they do not devote their lives to merely GAMES.
GAMES are good entertainment but they are not lives. Get a grip.
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Now wouldn't that be a grand ol' time?
Nah. The majority calls them MMOs beacuse they don't care the rat ass about the small distinctions that you care so muh about.
You think they care about some world is persistent or not? If it is fun, they will play it. Not everyone is out to get you.
And that "vision" you talked about .. it has been tried. UO and EQ did NOT resonate with the market as much as the more casual MMOs. No SANE developers is going back to the old days when they want a big audience.
And what are you complaining about, there are tons of indie efforts (like Darkfall) trying to get your niche business.
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Now wouldn't that be a grand ol' time?
Nah. The majority calls them MMOs beacuse they don't care the rat ass about the small distinctions that you care so muh about.
You think they care about some world is persistent or not? If it is fun, they will play it. Not everyone is out to get you.
And that "vision" you talked about .. it has been tried. UO and EQ did NOT resonate with the market as much as the more casual MMOs. No SANE developers is going back to the old days when they want a big audience.
And what are you complaining about, there are tons of indie efforts (like Darkfall) trying to get your niche business.
Oh yes, i forgot, wow has 16million+ players, there is no Aion and Rift announced a million subs record...
I mean, and i am sure i am repeating myself, the point is not that this or that approach is bad, but that in my opinion we are now kinda in that area when a "casual player" really can choose between playing Skyrim and that new SW thing, and there is no difference from his PoV, only that he pays just for the box or for the box AND a monthly sub.
I mean, and i am sure i am repeating myself, the point is not that this or that approach is bad, but that in my opinion we are now kinda in that area when a "casual player" really can choose between playing Skyrim and that new SW thing, and there is no difference from his PoV, only that he pays just for the box or for the box AND a monthly sub.
And i dont think that that is enough.
Flame on!
Last time I look, i can't go to a SKYRIM dungeon with a group. And that is what justify my $15 a month to Blizz.
Moreover, SKYRIM does need some more interesting mechanics for boss fight. I don't find as much variety in SKYRIM mechanics, compared to MMO boss fights.
There is a new iOS game, called Raid Leader, which is a SP game but you command a party and they claim it is about interesting boss fights. I hope there are more SP games like that.
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
Farmville is not making as much as WOW, is it?
And if you don't think numbers have some influence of the future of the market, you are born yesterday. Market does develop to serve consumer segments that are LARGE ENOUGH though.
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
Farmville is not making as much as WOW, is it?
And if you don't think numbers have some influence of the future of the market, you are born yesterday. Market does develop to serve consumer segments that are LARGE ENOUGH though.
What did i just say? Please refer to the post YOU quoted. And just so you know that IF Farmville was charging a monthy fee, you dont think they would blow WoW out of the water in revenew? Who was born yesterday?
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
That is like saying all console games will turn into iPhone games in 5 years.
AAA big budget games will always be around because they offer an experience you cannot get from these casual games.
Why not. Console games have turned into MMOs. Whos to say whats goin to happen. MMOs use to be major time sinks but over the years have devloped into what you see today. How do you know what the next stage of its evolution will turn out.
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
Farmville is not making as much as WOW, is it?
And if you don't think numbers have some influence of the future of the market, you are born yesterday. Market does develop to serve consumer segments that are LARGE ENOUGH though.
What did i just say? Please refer to the post YOU quoted. And just so you know that IF Farmville was charging a monthy fee, you dont think they would blow WoW out of the water in revenew? Who was born yesterday?
63,370,436 monthly active subs..... how many does WoW have again?
So no i say this again....... IF shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL MMOs will look like Farmville.
Number of people != money. IF farmville was charging a monthly fee, they will have 1/100 of their users right now. Just look at DDO/LOTRO/STO for the reverse effect.
If you think that Farmville will have the SAME number of active users if they charge $15 a month .. now who is naive?
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
Farmville is not making as much as WOW, is it?
And if you don't think numbers have some influence of the future of the market, you are born yesterday. Market does develop to serve consumer segments that are LARGE ENOUGH though.
What did i just say? Please refer to the post YOU quoted. And just so you know that IF Farmville was charging a monthy fee, you dont think they would blow WoW out of the water in revenew? Who was born yesterday?
63,370,436 monthly active subs..... how many does WoW have again?
So no i say this again....... IF shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL MMOs will look like Farmville.
Number of people != money. IF farmville was charging a monthly fee, they will have 1/100 of their users right now. Just look at DDO/LOTRO/STO for the reverse effect.
If you think that Farmville will have the SAME number of active users if they charge $15 a month .. now who is naive?
1/00? have you seen some of the people that play Farmville? tap the person infront of you and ask them if they play farmville. 1 in 4 will say yep. even if they lost half of there sub base thats still 31,685,218 subs... even if they charged 5 bucks a month who cares. were talking sub numbers. You said it yourself " And If you dont think numbers have some influance on the future of the market, you were born yesterday" i didnt say that YOU did.
The problem is that the game is fucking boring. Ofc we should be able to fucking be able to jump right in and have fun. What kind of a sick fuck comes home from work only to work even more without getting paid.
Do you even know the definition of an MMO? It sure as hell ain't "checklist online". I played DAoC back in the days, massive open frontiers with castle to siege and armies to crush (MASSIVE). No other game has come close to the feeling that DAoC gave. And you've got the fucking nerve to tell me and many others that we don't want MMO's? And you cetegorise SWToR as an MMO? Don't make me laugh.
You talk a about not wanting a challenge. What you call a challenge is this - Monster has a million HP, get it down to zero by mashing a boring rotation over and over again. Problem is people like you don't know how to separate tedium from challenge.
You also mention SWToR and exploration, again don't make me laugh. Walking through empty expanses for no reason other than "TIME SINK" ain't exploration.
The problem is that the game is fucking boring. Ofc we should be able to fucking be able to jump right in and have fun. What kind of a sick fuck comes home from work only to work even more without getting paid.
Do you even know the definition of an MMO? It sure as hell ain't "checklist online". I played DAoC back in the days, massive open frontiers with castle to siege and armies to crush (MASSIVE). No other game has come close to the feeling that DAoC gave. And you've got the fucking nerve to tell me and many others that we don't want MMO's? And you cetegorise SWToR as an MMO? Don't make me laugh.
You talk a about not wanting a challenge. What you call a challenge is this - Monster has a million HP, get it down to zero by mashing a boring rotation over and over again. Problem is people like you don't know how to separate tedium from challenge.
You also mention SWToR and exploration, again don't make me laugh. Walking through empty expanses for no reason other than "TIME SINK" ain't exploration.
Last time I look, i can't go to a SKYRIM dungeon with a group. And that is what justify my $15 a month to Blizz.
Well, it is a close one, considering that LFG/R/ASDF with its ease of getting a group AND the reduced requirements within these services creates a situation, where the other players are just more or less expendable "companions", bringing us back to the single player problem.
And im not against lfg or any other service, its just the overall state of the games which makes it a easy target...
Game developers obvious don't think you're real enough...
Actually it's that there aren't enough of them to be a smart investment for the millions of dollars it takes to create a AAA MMORPG.
Sad, but true.
Investment size = potential/expected player base.
Sandbox MMOs are thusly made by Indie devs. Though eventually I think we'll start to see a shift back towards the center, as we've gone very far off the deepend.
Check out the stats on Dark Age of Camelot at the bottom of the page:
Game developers obvious don't think you're real enough...
Actually it's that there aren't enough of them to be a smart investment for the millions of dollars it takes to create a AAA MMORPG.
Sad, but true.
Investment size = potential/expected player base.
Sandbox MMOs are thusly made by Indie devs. Though eventually I think we'll start to see a shift back towards the center, as we've gone very far off the deepend.
Check out the stats on Dark Age of Camelot at the bottom of the page:
Comments
What interesting MMO gameplay? They are using lobby based or at best guildwars style gameplay and some MOBA arenas. Those are not MMO features. Guildwars fucking admits its not an MMO.
You are right though they have a few persistent areas where people barely interact at all. So I guess we can call them MMOs if we think that that is an acceptable example.
This whole argument has always been about definitions. You have a definition so broad as to be entirely meaningless and useless and I have one you can apply practically to differentiate between different experiences.
You say MMOs and I would rather call that stuff MOs.
Who gives a rats ass except for some purist minority? They are close enough for the rest of us and so they are called MMORPGs. Majority undestands and continue on with their lives happily. Why can't you? It is your problem not ours.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Its never the majorities responsibility is it? That's cool. I am fixing the problem myself since people with money have no vision or imagination.
Like I said majority calls them MMOs because they want to pretend that they are playing something besides a MOBA or srpg. After all, how could they justify the ridiculous amount of money they pay for the games otherwise?
Its not your fault. All humans are just the product of their experiences. Some people simply haven't experienced anything better so how can they realize that what they have is trivial and easy? It was the minority that saw the possibilities of the internet and created something new and beautiful. The masses just came in and diluted that vision until it was just a boring carbon copy of what came before, but they kept a few features as gimmicks so that people would pay out the ass.
I was thinking, maybe we should play a little game. The whiny minority will innovate again, and build something amazing, and make some videos for you all to watch and then instead of just handing it to you we will say: "Make it yourself." And then you will just be like: "Fuck."
Now wouldn't that be a grand ol' time?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
They are not pretending anything. All they want is to play a good game. That is it. MMORPGs became big when they started to be better as games, not as simulators. The small minority had little to do with that.
I never liked old MMOs because they sucked as games and I'm a gamer. I would also much rather play a pen & paper rpg for that "world feel" and roleplay.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I like to read, not post. People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult. If you don't want to look like an idiot, learn to spell your language.
Thanks for your opinion. Now move the hell on.
My Japanese teacher explained it thusly:
"Some people are really in love with the IDEA of learning Japanese but they are not too keen on the reality."
So it is with co op or single player focused "MMOs" full of instances and phasing.
The people this thread was about like the idea of playing MMOs, probably imagining a scene out of LotR, and of course they are also the people that have never read the books or only did so when they movies came out and whined about 200 pages of walking.
But of course the reality is that its not always like that. LotR movies showed only the most exciting parts of the books which showed only the more exciting parts of middle earth and they focused you on the heroes instead of say, the black smiths or the civilians or the soldiers even getting massacred on the field of battle. And of course the movie only lasted a few hours. So they went to MMOs expecting the experience to be the same as watching a movie except that it kept going and of course there are thousands expecting to be the hero. Well tough shit. That's what single player games were for. Except of course its not as cool as it was in the movie even there.
Honestly its like the people on this website don't understand basic psychology like false consciousness and self deception.
LOL .. you want to play grammar police? May be you should learn to write properly in ENGLISH first.
"learn to spell IN your langauge"
"People whose grammar in their mother tongue is poorer than mine was in elementary school in a second language make it quite difficult" ????
"is poorer than mine ... was in elementary school .. make it quite difficult" .. have you heard of sentence structure?
LOL .. who is insisting on anything? You are the only one who is insisting the term CORPG should be used. The market just flow and evolve. Few in the world cares about labels on games. Most casuals never heard of CORPG. If they learn that WOW is a MMORPG, it is already a revelation to them.
The developers, retailers and everyone involves in the business has NO incentives to confuse them by adding more terms. You place too much emphasis on a FORUM where only a very minority of the casual even are aware of.
And now you are calling them names like "lazy"??? More then not, they have BUSY LIVES. And that is why they do not devote their lives to merely GAMES.
GAMES are good entertainment but they are not lives. Get a grip.
Nah. The majority calls them MMOs beacuse they don't care the rat ass about the small distinctions that you care so muh about.
You think they care about some world is persistent or not? If it is fun, they will play it. Not everyone is out to get you.
And that "vision" you talked about .. it has been tried. UO and EQ did NOT resonate with the market as much as the more casual MMOs. No SANE developers is going back to the old days when they want a big audience.
And what are you complaining about, there are tons of indie efforts (like Darkfall) trying to get your niche business.
Oh yes, i forgot, wow has 16million+ players, there is no Aion and Rift announced a million subs record...
I mean, and i am sure i am repeating myself, the point is not that this or that approach is bad, but that in my opinion we are now kinda in that area when a "casual player" really can choose between playing Skyrim and that new SW thing, and there is no difference from his PoV, only that he pays just for the box or for the box AND a monthly sub.
And i dont think that that is enough.
Flame on!
Last time I look, i can't go to a SKYRIM dungeon with a group. And that is what justify my $15 a month to Blizz.
Moreover, SKYRIM does need some more interesting mechanics for boss fight. I don't find as much variety in SKYRIM mechanics, compared to MMO boss fights.
There is a new iOS game, called Raid Leader, which is a SP game but you command a party and they claim it is about interesting boss fights. I hope there are more SP games like that.
If shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL mmos will look like farmville. Now is that something we want?
That is like saying all console games will turn into iPhone games in 5 years.
AAA big budget games will always be around because they offer an experience you cannot get from these casual games.
Farmville is not making as much as WOW, is it?
And if you don't think numbers have some influence of the future of the market, you are born yesterday. Market does develop to serve consumer segments that are LARGE ENOUGH though.
What did i just say? Please refer to the post YOU quoted. And just so you know that IF Farmville was charging a monthy fee, you dont think they would blow WoW out of the water in revenew? Who was born yesterday?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_play_Farmville_globally
63,370,436 monthly active subs..... how many does WoW have again?
So no i say this again....... IF shear numbers dictates how the genre will evolve then in 5 years time ALL MMOs will look like Farmville.
Why not. Console games have turned into MMOs. Whos to say whats goin to happen. MMOs use to be major time sinks but over the years have devloped into what you see today. How do you know what the next stage of its evolution will turn out.
Number of people != money. IF farmville was charging a monthly fee, they will have 1/100 of their users right now. Just look at DDO/LOTRO/STO for the reverse effect.
If you think that Farmville will have the SAME number of active users if they charge $15 a month .. now who is naive?
1/00? have you seen some of the people that play Farmville? tap the person infront of you and ask them if they play farmville. 1 in 4 will say yep. even if they lost half of there sub base thats still 31,685,218 subs... even if they charged 5 bucks a month who cares. were talking sub numbers. You said it yourself " And If you dont think numbers have some influance on the future of the market, you were born yesterday" i didnt say that YOU did.
The problem is that the game is fucking boring. Ofc we should be able to fucking be able to jump right in and have fun. What kind of a sick fuck comes home from work only to work even more without getting paid.
Do you even know the definition of an MMO? It sure as hell ain't "checklist online". I played DAoC back in the days, massive open frontiers with castle to siege and armies to crush (MASSIVE). No other game has come close to the feeling that DAoC gave. And you've got the fucking nerve to tell me and many others that we don't want MMO's? And you cetegorise SWToR as an MMO? Don't make me laugh.
You talk a about not wanting a challenge. What you call a challenge is this - Monster has a million HP, get it down to zero by mashing a boring rotation over and over again. Problem is people like you don't know how to separate tedium from challenge.
You also mention SWToR and exploration, again don't make me laugh. Walking through empty expanses for no reason other than "TIME SINK" ain't exploration.
Ahhhh... what?
Well, it is a close one, considering that LFG/R/ASDF with its ease of getting a group AND the reduced requirements within these services creates a situation, where the other players are just more or less expendable "companions", bringing us back to the single player problem.
And im not against lfg or any other service, its just the overall state of the games which makes it a easy target...
Check out the stats on Dark Age of Camelot at the bottom of the page:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3009/postmortem_mythic_entertainments_.php?page=3
I heard that AA budget was aound 25 mil....
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