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What I've realised is people who are playing MMOs, do not actually want to play MMOs...

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  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus

     

    Fact is, niether you or I set the standard for a definition of an "MMO". The industry does.

    And who influances the industry? I thought gamers with the fat pockets influance the industy. if that is indeed the case, then the fact is that you and i set the standered for the definition of what an MMO is. only problem is the money that influenes the industry is coming from the casuals.

    What I'm saying... is that we don't' control when a company makes a game and places the term "MMORPG" on the box. The company makes this decision based on the general definition of what an MMO is. We don't "influance" them to put that title on the box. You get it?

     

    But we do have influence on WHAT is being made do we not? IF the co desides its a MMO or not is besides the point. you could call skyrin an MMO if they wanted to. the point is that its WE who decide whats being made and those in charge atm are the casuals. causals want easy games to play and they want them in the MMO genre so guess what. there being made.

     

    massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world. They are, however, not necessarily games played on personal computers. Most of the newer game consoles, including the PSPPlayStation 3Xbox 360Nintendo DS and Wii can access the Internet and may therefore run MMO games. Additionally, mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as AndroidiOS and Windows Phone are seeing an increase in the number of MMO games available.

    MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.

    And of course the money is coming from the casuals. It takes us longer to complete content. While a "hardcore" might blow through TOR's content in say, two weeks to a month, it will take me at least six months to a year. I will spend more money and am less likely to quit cause I ran out of things to do. If you were trying to make money, wouldn't you aim at the latter? 

     

    THIS couldent be farther from the truth. infact its the casuals that are the first to jump ship from an MMO. MMOs are throwaway games to them. They made them so easy, so liner that a casual can have 2 or 3 or even 4 Theampark MMOs qued up and play one each day.

     

    They dont want to invest time into a good MMO so they have them dumbed down to accommodate them and there play style. say what you want but its been my experience that the casual is the FIRST to go in MMOs.

    LOL at this. i have to go to the store but dont you worry. ill be back to respond to this.

    I await with bated breath....

    thank you for holding.

    All that waiting for that? It's two different arguements. I know the TYPE of MMO's that are coming out are determined by the players. What they're paying for, and what the casuals want. I get that.

     

    What the other argument was about is what is defined as an MMORPG as opposed to say, a CORPG. You're off point.  Some people are saying that these games coming out are not MMO's but rather CORPG's. What I was saying was that is a company, say Bioware choses to put the term MMORPG on the box, we don't control that. We don't control the fact that the company is not calling it a "CORPG" Understand? It's literal. Don't get mad at the casuals for the companies calling the games MMORPG's of that's not what you think it is. Not our fault. 

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by Cuathon


    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by Cuathon

    So many people miss the point of the OP. Casuals come in and say they want to play casual leisure games. As if the OP doesn't know this. He does know it. That's why he thinks its weird that they play MMOs. Instead of something like Diablo.

    I think the world would be a better place if they had made WoW a more Diablo type game. Like started with Diablo and added the WoW style graphics and push from there to more uninstanced areas and adding some features from EQ. Starting with EQ and constantly pushing towards Diablo is starting with the wrong end and ruining the MMO genre when there was a much faster and more intuitive way to do it without crapping on a genre that was never intended for casuals.

    Ok, I am the "casual" you speak of and I don't want a CORPG. I want an MMO. Just because I want some conveniences also, doesn't mean I don't want to interact with other players. We've talked about this before. Diablo and other CORPG's only have your group in the area, no others. I don't want that. I like TOR where I run across others all the time. 

     

    Just because we don't want your style of MMO, doesn't mean we don't want an MMO. 

     

    And it's completely your opinion that the MMO genre was not intended for casuals. Casuals spend more time and money on MMO's as they don't burn through the content, bitch and un-sub as fast as hardcore gamers. I don't need to prove I'm correct about that... just look where the money is going. Look where the genre is going. I'm as happy as can be with what is coming out and someone else is not. That proves I'm correct....lol

    If you read the post I talked about that. You don't want an MMO. You want a corpg with SOME mmo FEATURES. That is not the same as wanting an MMO. Running across other people is a  feature of MMOs but the way that casuals interact in MMOs was not how it was intended to be.

    You literally made an argument ad populum. Intentionally. "I'm right because the majority wants this." The majority also doesn't want an MMO.

    If you played early, read : real, MMOs you would know that the genre was not intended for casuals.

    99% of the people on this forum are so fucking ignorant about social dynamics. They have no idea what colonization of niche genres means.

    SUM 41 and New Found Glory are not punk bands. I love their music but its not punk. Its mainstream pop colonizing punk because they liked 20% of the features of punk. Punk was developed as working class every man music with low production values and musicians who can't play that well and singers who couldn't hack it in mainstream music of the time. Pop punk is a mainly middle class and upper class genre with high production values and big concerts and tours and CDs from major publishing countries.

    These pop punk bands are not punk bands. Pop punk isn't an ideal name but at least people do not constantly refer to these bands as "punk" with no qualifiers. Except little kids who don't actually know anything but what they hear on the radio. All the marketing companies telling them they are cool and original and have taste, but they are really listening to the same old pop with a slightly darker tone so that the industry can position their bands as edgey and different.

    Hell, even Milo Auckerman is embarrassed by all this hot topic industry pushed bullshit and his band The Descendants are practically the godfathers of pop punk who originated the girl and food focus of the genre.

    Its fine though. The word MMORPG has been so diluted that its unlikely for console kiddies and casuals ever to accept the distinction between having MMO features and being an MMO. Every creative industry has this problem so its pretty clear its not going away. The world views of social colonizers are never going to be inline with the minorities they consume.

    No, no .... just no. This is so easy to see and I can't believe I didn't notice it before. 

     

    It's funny you always bring up music, cause that's the clear give away. You just hate the mainstream. You liked the old MMO's cause they were bascially like underground music. Only some people really knew what they were. Only select people played them. Then, a game like WoW comes out and brings all these people to the party, you didn't want to know about it. It's like a punk band who sells out. I bet you hate Real Big Fish also?

     

    Not talking about you, but my 22 y/o brother in law is the same way. Hates almost everything. Anything on the radio is crap, new metal is crap, he only listens to these Nordic Metal bands that a handfull of people have heard of. He hates "casual gamers" or anything mainstream for that matter... he's a hipster.  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hipster

     

    Fact is, niether you or I set the standard for a definition of an "MMO". The industry does. You have every right to not play the game, but refusing to accept the fact that these games are MMO's, just because they're not the underground non-mainstream MMO's you want is ridiculous. You say we don't want MMO's... that's crazy. How do you know what I want? I want an MMO, perhaps just not an MMO by your definition, which is obviously far off from the industries deffinition. 

     

    oh... and by the way... a CORPG with MMO elements is an MMORPG...lol



    No, I have listened to thousands of hours of SUM 41. Its still not punk. I listen to and/or play what I like regardless of genre. I just object to calling things by the wrong name. I played WoW for 10 hours a day, and I hated the crafting but I enjoyed my time. Its still not an MMORPG in its current state.

     

    A coop rpg is not an MMO just because it has a few features. Its still a co op rpg.

    No it's not. I have provided you in the past with the definition of a CORPG as well as it could be defined... and you agreed. Blew my mind, but you did. Now... when you add a new feature or playstyle to a game, it becomes a new paradigm, or model if you will. So.. if you take a CORPG add a persistant world with more people and more then just groups in an instance (if you will)... it becomes an MMORPG. You have taken a Co-operative game played by a group of folks and opened it up to a potentially massive audience, hence the term, MMORPG. 

     

    You're stuck on the fact that you just won't call them MMORPG cause they're not what YOU like. I can call something what it is, even if I don't like it. I mean, those revolting smart cars are still cars... even though i hate them and wouldn't be caught dead in one. They still meet the definition of a car. Like it or not, these games meet the definition of a MMORPG, and do not meet the definition of a CORPG. Don't say they're somewhere in between, cause they are not. 

     

    At this point, you're arguing out of pure emotion and hatred for these types of games, refusing them to calling them MMO's. 

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,319

    I'm going to go back to the OPs main thought which was basically "other peoples ideas of fun ruined my beloved genre" and add to that a bit.

     

    FPSs, anyone?

     

    I cut my teeth on Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny and Doom. Once upon a time, FPSs were great single-player experiences; then came games like Quake which added multi-player options onto the single player game.

    Today, the typical FPS contains a 5 hour single-player "campaign" which is basically a tutorial to get you ready for multiplayer. Also, these games follow the standard pricing model of all current-gen games. Of course, they'll sell me more multi-player maps if I get bored of what they originally released.

     

    I don't like this idea. What was the last single-player-focused FPS, and how did it sell in comparison to MW3 or BF3?

     

    Now, I could sit on forums all day, lamenting the loss of this greatly beloved genre of mine. Or, I could refuse to buy these new abominations and find something else that is fun while occasionally picking up a select title once it has hit the bargain bin.

     

    The milk has been spilled.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    I'm done with this. All I can say is have fun being unhappy folks. I will be enjoying games, regardless of what they're being called...lol.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Wow, this thread has seriously turned in to a "Naga stole my bike" thread.

    And instead of going to the authorities to get it back, they try to confront the big guy themselves.

    But we all know what happens next:

     

    And guess who's still got the bike?

    You must not have finished watching Friday. didnt Devo get, how do they put it... oh thats right. KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT! Dude got his bike and his chain back.

    I tell you what. Just like the movie, if you truly want your bike back, you are going to have to wait until someone does the dirty work you couldn't do and lay me out. Then you can get it back while I'm down.

    Until then, you wan't some of this old man?!

    Old man my ass

    Trust me if i had the bucks it would have been done alrady. win or loose i would go to battle. in time someone WILL come along and knock these theamparks dick in the dirt and when they do ill be there to get my shit back.

     

    I dare you to say it will never happen. The sec you do ill bitch slap the rotted ass tooth out your face. Im sure games like EQ and UO thought the same thing when Blizzard came along with WOW. Now look at this mess.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus

     

    Fact is, niether you or I set the standard for a definition of an "MMO". The industry does.

    And who influances the industry? I thought gamers with the fat pockets influance the industy. if that is indeed the case, then the fact is that you and i set the standered for the definition of what an MMO is. only problem is the money that influenes the industry is coming from the casuals.

    What I'm saying... is that we don't' control when a company makes a game and places the term "MMORPG" on the box. The company makes this decision based on the general definition of what an MMO is. We don't "influance" them to put that title on the box. You get it?

     

    But we do have influence on WHAT is being made do we not? IF the co desides its a MMO or not is besides the point. you could call skyrin an MMO if they wanted to. the point is that its WE who decide whats being made and those in charge atm are the casuals. causals want easy games to play and they want them in the MMO genre so guess what. there being made.

     

    massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world. They are, however, not necessarily games played on personal computers. Most of the newer game consoles, including the PSPPlayStation 3Xbox 360Nintendo DS and Wii can access the Internet and may therefore run MMO games. Additionally, mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as AndroidiOS and Windows Phone are seeing an increase in the number of MMO games available.

    MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.

    And of course the money is coming from the casuals. It takes us longer to complete content. While a "hardcore" might blow through TOR's content in say, two weeks to a month, it will take me at least six months to a year. I will spend more money and am less likely to quit cause I ran out of things to do. If you were trying to make money, wouldn't you aim at the latter? 

     

    THIS couldent be farther from the truth. infact its the casuals that are the first to jump ship from an MMO. MMOs are throwaway games to them. They made them so easy, so liner that a casual can have 2 or 3 or even 4 Theampark MMOs qued up and play one each day.

     

    They dont want to invest time into a good MMO so they have them dumbed down to accommodate them and there play style. say what you want but its been my experience that the casual is the FIRST to go in MMOs.

    LOL at this. i have to go to the store but dont you worry. ill be back to respond to this.

    I await with bated breath....

    thank you for holding.

    All that waiting for that? It's two different arguements. I know the TYPE of MMO's that are coming out are determined by the players. What they're paying for, and what the casuals want. I get that.

     

    What the other argument was about is what is defined as an MMORPG as opposed to say, a CORPG. You're off point.  Some people are saying that these games coming out are not MMO's but rather CORPG's. What I was saying was that is a company, say Bioware choses to put the term MMORPG on the box, we don't control that. We don't control the fact that the company is not calling it a "CORPG" Understand? It's literal. Don't get mad at the casuals for the companies calling the games MMORPG's of that's not what you think it is. Not our fault. 

    Does it make it right?

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by Praetalus

     

    Fact is, niether you or I set the standard for a definition of an "MMO". The industry does.

    And who influances the industry? I thought gamers with the fat pockets influance the industy. if that is indeed the case, then the fact is that you and i set the standered for the definition of what an MMO is. only problem is the money that influenes the industry is coming from the casuals.

    What I'm saying... is that we don't' control when a company makes a game and places the term "MMORPG" on the box. The company makes this decision based on the general definition of what an MMO is. We don't "influance" them to put that title on the box. You get it?

     

    But we do have influence on WHAT is being made do we not? IF the co desides its a MMO or not is besides the point. you could call skyrin an MMO if they wanted to. the point is that its WE who decide whats being made and those in charge atm are the casuals. causals want easy games to play and they want them in the MMO genre so guess what. there being made.

     

    massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world. They are, however, not necessarily games played on personal computers. Most of the newer game consoles, including the PSPPlayStation 3Xbox 360Nintendo DS and Wii can access the Internet and may therefore run MMO games. Additionally, mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as AndroidiOS and Windows Phone are seeing an increase in the number of MMO games available.

    MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.

    And of course the money is coming from the casuals. It takes us longer to complete content. While a "hardcore" might blow through TOR's content in say, two weeks to a month, it will take me at least six months to a year. I will spend more money and am less likely to quit cause I ran out of things to do. If you were trying to make money, wouldn't you aim at the latter? 

     

    THIS couldent be farther from the truth. infact its the casuals that are the first to jump ship from an MMO. MMOs are throwaway games to them. They made them so easy, so liner that a casual can have 2 or 3 or even 4 Theampark MMOs qued up and play one each day.

     

    They dont want to invest time into a good MMO so they have them dumbed down to accommodate them and there play style. say what you want but its been my experience that the casual is the FIRST to go in MMOs.

    LOL at this. i have to go to the store but dont you worry. ill be back to respond to this.

    I await with bated breath....

    thank you for holding.

    All that waiting for that? It's two different arguements. I know the TYPE of MMO's that are coming out are determined by the players. What they're paying for, and what the casuals want. I get that.

     

    What the other argument was about is what is defined as an MMORPG as opposed to say, a CORPG. You're off point.  Some people are saying that these games coming out are not MMO's but rather CORPG's. What I was saying was that is a company, say Bioware choses to put the term MMORPG on the box, we don't control that. We don't control the fact that the company is not calling it a "CORPG" Understand? It's literal. Don't get mad at the casuals for the companies calling the games MMORPG's of that's not what you think it is. Not our fault.

    Does it make it right?

     Does it matter?

     

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Wow, this thread has seriously turned in to a "Naga stole my bike" thread.

    And instead of going to the authorities to get it back, they try to confront the big guy themselves.

    But we all know what happens next:

     

    And guess who's still got the bike?

    You must not have finished watching Friday. didnt Devo get, how do they put it... oh thats right. KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT! Dude got his bike and his chain back.

    I tell you what. Just like the movie, if you truly want your bike back, you are going to have to wait until someone does the dirty work you couldn't do and lay me out. Then you can get it back while I'm down.

    Until then, you wan't some of this old man?!

    Old man my ass

    Trust me if i had the bucks it would have been done alrady. win or loose i would go to battle. in time someone WILL come along and knock these theamparks dick in the dirt and when they do ill be there to get my shit back.

     

    I dare you to say it will never happen. The sec you do ill bitch slap the rotted ass tooth out your face. Im sure games like EQ and UO thought the same thing when Blizzard came along with WOW. Now look at this mess.

     Just because you've finally peaked my curiousity, E-pac, it  will never happen...

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by Praetalus

    All that waiting for that? It's two different arguements. I know the TYPE of MMO's that are coming out are determined by the players. What they're paying for, and what the casuals want. I get that.

     

    What the other argument was about is what is defined as an MMORPG as opposed to say, a CORPG. You're off point.  Some people are saying that these games coming out are not MMO's but rather CORPG's. What I was saying was that is a company, say Bioware choses to put the term MMORPG on the box, we don't control that. We don't control the fact that the company is not calling it a "CORPG" Understand? It's literal. Don't get mad at the casuals for the companies calling the games MMORPG's of that's not what you think it is. Not our fault.

    Does it make it right?

     Does it matter?

     

    To some.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by bossalinie


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Wow, this thread has seriously turned in to a "Naga stole my bike" thread.

    And instead of going to the authorities to get it back, they try to confront the big guy themselves.

    But we all know what happens next:

     

    And guess who's still got the bike?

    You must not have finished watching Friday. didnt Devo get, how do they put it... oh thats right. KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT! Dude got his bike and his chain back.

    I tell you what. Just like the movie, if you truly want your bike back, you are going to have to wait until someone does the dirty work you couldn't do and lay me out. Then you can get it back while I'm down.

    Until then, you wan't some of this old man?!

    Old man my ass

    Trust me if i had the bucks it would have been done alrady. win or loose i would go to battle. in time someone WILL come along and knock these theamparks dick in the dirt and when they do ill be there to get my shit back.

     

    I dare you to say it will never happen. The sec you do ill bitch slap the rotted ass tooth out your face. Im sure games like EQ and UO thought the same thing when Blizzard came along with WOW. Now look at this mess.

     Just because you've finally peaked my curiousity, E-pac, it  will never happen...

    We'll see

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    WTF dude, talk about being a total ball buster..."we'll see"? After that previous post??!! You totally trolled me...

     

    Honestly, i believe that the game some are looking for is right around the corner. I know it will be great for some and I hope more pour out. I have no problem with saying that they won't be for me...and at the same time will still call you all fellow MMORPGers. I refuse to turm thisgenre into  subclasses based on small differences. The core still exists in all the MMOs being made. Whether we like them all or not is just personal preference.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    WTF dude, talk about being a total ball buster..."we'll see"? After that previous post??!! You totally trolled me...

     

    Honestly, i believe that the game some are looking for is right around the corner. I know it will be great for some and I hope more pour out. I have no problem with saying that they won't be for me...and at the same time will still call you all fellow MMORPGers. I refuse to turm thisgenre into  subclasses based on small differences. The core still exists in all the MMOs being made. Whether we like them all or not is just personal preference.

    ROFL!

     

    Well lets hope for a brighter tomorrow.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749

    Originally posted by TruthXHurts

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I live in an expansive non-virtual world. I cut firewood weekly through the spring and fall (winter sometimes too). I build fences and barns. I raise goats and horses (and a llama even). I have a garden larger than the typical suburban housing lot. I also have a 40hr job in a factory.

    I don't want to do these things in a virtual world. I want to play games. Sometimes, I want to play them with other people.

     

    I understand why some people want sandbox games because I enjoy all of the items I listed above and I'm sure some people can't experience them in the real world. But to say that only sandboxes are true MMOs and everyone else is destroying your sandcastle with their desire for fun gameplay that isn't what you call fun? Grow up.

    Have you ever considered buying an XBOX 360 instead of ruining an entire genre because you don't have time to enjoy it anymore?

    I find MMOs to be entertaining, casual MMOs even more so.  Who the hell are you to tell me how and where I should get that entertainment.  Casuals aren't ruining the genre, you're just butt sore because your play style is no longer relevant.  I'm not happy that you're on the losing end of social darwinism, but neither am I going to be sad or disappointed that we're on the winning end.

    image
  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Originally posted by TruthXHurts


    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I live in an expansive non-virtual world. I cut firewood weekly through the spring and fall (winter sometimes too). I build fences and barns. I raise goats and horses (and a llama even). I have a garden larger than the typical suburban housing lot. I also have a 40hr job in a factory.

    I don't want to do these things in a virtual world. I want to play games. Sometimes, I want to play them with other people.

     

    I understand why some people want sandbox games because I enjoy all of the items I listed above and I'm sure some people can't experience them in the real world. But to say that only sandboxes are true MMOs and everyone else is destroying your sandcastle with their desire for fun gameplay that isn't what you call fun? Grow up.

    Have you ever considered buying an XBOX 360 instead of ruining an entire genre because you don't have time to enjoy it anymore?

    I find MMOs to be entertaining, casual MMOs even more so.  Who the hell are you to tell me how and where I should get that entertainment.  Casuals aren't ruining the genre, you're just butt sore because your play style is no longer relevant.  I'm not happy that you're on the losing end of social darwinism, but neither am I going to be sad or disappointed that we're on the winning end.

    ROFL scroll back a few pages to the part where i called people like you Smug

     

    Feeling good about your self? Glad to see some people are getting what they want.

  • lobsterbotlobsterbot Member Posts: 5

    Certain things in games are being phased out in MMORPGs because the larger player base for new MMORPGs cater to the larger audience, Casual Gamers. There is still a large audience of Hardcore/Semi-Hardcore players out there, except they pick an MMORPG and stick with it. For the most part, Casual gamers are short sighted and fickle in choosing their MMORPG of choice. They would rather have fancy graphics and easy to pick up controls than sit down for hours and learn about the game's content. Unfortunately, MMORPGs are catering to the new audience instead of the old audience.

     

    I would venture to say that the Casual Gamer Audience is killing the MMORPG model and turning it into a mixture of Social Media and an MMO environment.

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I'm going to go back to the OPs main thought which was basically "other peoples ideas of fun ruined my beloved genre" and add to that a bit.

     

    FPSs, anyone?

     

    I cut my teeth on Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny and Doom. Once upon a time, FPSs were great single-player experiences; then came games like Quake which added multi-player options onto the single player game.

    Today, the typical FPS contains a 5 hour single-player "campaign" which is basically a tutorial to get you ready for multiplayer. Also, these games follow the standard pricing model of all current-gen games. Of course, they'll sell me more multi-player maps if I get bored of what they originally released.

     

    I don't like this idea. What was the last single-player-focused FPS, and how did it sell in comparison to MW3 or BF3?

     

    Now, I could sit on forums all day, lamenting the loss of this greatly beloved genre of mine. Or, I could refuse to buy these new abominations and find something else that is fun while occasionally picking up a select title once it has hit the bargain bin.

     

    The milk has been spilled.

    +1- while I'm in the same boat as the OP (and I certainly have made posts whining about the current state of MMORPGs) it's better in the end to just leave the genre. If they don't make what you want, stop paying for it. By and large it's what I've done because MMORPGs don't offer the community and social nature that I desire from this genre and other genres are just better at being games or offering specific playstyles I'm looking for; it's a shame I can't scratch that online socializing itch because there's no game for it currently, though.

     

    Just as an aside, I find it odd that players flock to the MMORPG genre for the "game" aspect as MMORPGs (all of them I've played- even my beloved EQ1 and CoX) were shitty as far as the game part went. They excelled at offering the social interaction for those that sought it. Just due to form of a MMORPG they will always be shitty RPGs compared to single-player RPGs so it boggles my mind that there are so many players out there that keep buying these shallow, watered down, and just generic themepark MMOs for things such as story and gameplay when they will always be worse in those aspects than their console counterparts. The best parts of MMORPGs imo wasn't what they offered as content in the game, but rather the time you spent with other players- the content was nothing more than the context to enjoy other people in.

  • aranhaaranha Member UncommonPosts: 171

    Theres only one thing i currently love about the current state of the mmorpg market and the casual kids WoW brought to this market.

    At this state in the mmorpg flow a indy company with a rock solid sandbox ala SWG style could boom the market! Hopefully that day will come when indy devs come to realise this huge gap in the market and grow into something solid,

    Hopefully...

    The only game company that i still trust in is Arenanet for their amasing work with GW1 but that may change if they are going soft with GW2!

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,152

    I completly agree with the OP.

    It is partly due to todays cullture, even across the globe, people are consumed by instant gratification. First it was making thier lives easier, but now its in everything. Even in our video games!

    Everywhere you go ts the same thing, instant this and instant that. Nobody wants to spend anytime working at anything, not in thier lives and certainly not in thier games.

    The game companies have simply catered to what the people are like these days, its very sad.....

    image
  • SuraknarSuraknar Member UncommonPosts: 852

    Originally posted by tixylix

    They want to play something like Guild Wars or Diablo where you have social hubs and instanced questing areas. They want an experience that is quick to get into and rewards them constantly for doing nothing like all the ribbons you get in BF3. They don't want to explore vast worlds, have a challenge or do any world content. They certainlly are not interested in the idea of a virtual seamless world like what MMOs tried to offer in the past.

    For me an MMO has to have a persistent world that can have a MASSIVE amount of players in any one area. That is the basis of the gameplay because if Planetside 2 only offered 64 player fights and then a social hub to visit it wouldn't be an MMO. Yet we have games these days calling themselves MMOs and they lack any of this. 

    [...]

    I agree, with much you have said, saddly.

    However, it was to be expected. TOR was made based on WoW's model and it attracted WOW kind of players, who for the most part have a different definition of what an MMO is.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • AcmegamerAcmegamer Member UncommonPosts: 337

     Which is why I complain that game developers of mmorpgs  have been wrongfully catering to players who should be playing FPS or MOBAs. The mmorpg game genre is nolonger the genre it should be because game developers are catering to FPS and MOBA genre game players. :(

     

      Nothing wrong with those genre of games and when I am in the mood to play a FPS or MOBA I play those. When I want to come immerse myself in a living, breathing, mmorpg, this is nolonger possible. :( Those players who are in reality seeking a FPS or MOBA are playing my genre of game and pushing for it to be changed into something that is "not" a mmorpg. 

     

     One of the biggest issues is that for players of those genre of games, it is all about the destination and not the journey. This drive for destination has ruined the mmorpg genre. Some day I hope for this to snap back and we'll start to see great mmorpgs.

     

     

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by DarLorkar
    You know what i think the difference is between people that call themselves "old timers" and what they call the new crowd of casual gamers?
    Old timers were looking for friends.
    Casual people are looking for fun.
    2 total different mind sets. Yes, they can combine a bit. But just think of that.
    One set is more interested in making long term commitments by looking for friends that game.
    And the other is looking for a fun game to play. And  will drop the  game as soon as the fun stops, with no, or small  amount of thought given, to the people that they may have met while playing.
    Both gamers, but the mind sets will always set them apart from each other. And the casual is where the investors and dev's are spending the cash.
    And i really do not see it ever going back to the old way. And yes on topic:) because the 2 groups see what defines a MMO  as completely different as their reasons to game. And neither can really see that they are both right, and wrong.

    Good thoughts, Dar. I fall into the "fun over friends" club. I never did play MMOs to make friends. I guess that's why I never liked forced grouping to advance. I did make some friends along the way, but they never were the reason to either leave or stay for a game.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    Originally posted by aranha

    Theres only one thing i currently love about the current state of the mmorpg market and the casual kids WoW brought to this market.

    At this state in the mmorpg flow a indy company with a rock solid sandbox ala SWG style could boom the market! Hopefully that day will come when indy devs come to realise this huge gap in the market and grow into something solid,

    Hopefully...

    The only game company that i still trust in is Arenanet for their amasing work with GW1 but that may change if they are going soft with GW2!

    The "casual kids"? Most of the "casuals" I'm seeing are not kids. They're like me, 30's, kid, wife, job. Most of the Hardcore sandbox players I see tend to be teens to 20's, school, college, etc. You know, the folks with a little more time on their hands. There's nothing wrong with that, I would love to have more time. But I don't.  It shouldn't be a negative to be a casual player. 

     

    Also, why do I not hear you sandbox folks talking about or attempting to help these small games like Xyson Online and Wurm Online? They could be the exact game you're talking about, yet, I hear no one talking them up or trying to get some support. You could be donating to these smaller developers who are trying to make the game you want, instead, time is spent being angry at the folks who are getting what they want..... 

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    Originally posted by Suraknar

    Originally posted by tixylix

    They want to play something like Guild Wars or Diablo where you have social hubs and instanced questing areas. They want an experience that is quick to get into and rewards them constantly for doing nothing like all the ribbons you get in BF3. They don't want to explore vast worlds, have a challenge or do any world content. They certainlly are not interested in the idea of a virtual seamless world like what MMOs tried to offer in the past.

    For me an MMO has to have a persistent world that can have a MASSIVE amount of players in any one area. That is the basis of the gameplay because if Planetside 2 only offered 64 player fights and then a social hub to visit it wouldn't be an MMO. Yet we have games these days calling themselves MMOs and they lack any of this. 

    [...]

    I agree, with much you have said, saddly.

    However, it was to be expected. TOR was made based on WoW's model and it attracted WOW kind of players, who for the most part have a different definition of what an MMO is.

    I wouldn't have a problem with SWTOR too much but there are Three things that really kill it for me...

    1. Fleets

    Why have them when we have all these cities? Now thanx to the fleets they just sit there empty and dead.

    2. Spaceport travel

    I don't understand why we have to go to a class hanger, to our ship,to the galaxy map, back to another class hanger and into the spaceport. Why not just have the SWG system where it basically is one click to travel to another planet or to get into your ship?

    3. Forced Taxis

    What is the point of having a force taxi that takes you across a tiny gap in Tatooine for example? Like the world exists between Anchorhead and the rest of the planet, so why not let me just go across it myself if I want to? I know why they did it so enemies cannot get into the city, but I'm on a PVP server and that is part of the fun! Even if they couldn't allow it why not let it so the friendlys can go across it but the enemies cannot?

     

    Just weird design decisions like this which make me hate the world design.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by aranha

    Theres only one thing i currently love about the current state of the mmorpg market and the casual kids WoW brought to this market.

    At this state in the mmorpg flow a indy company with a rock solid sandbox ala SWG style could boom the market! Hopefully that day will come when indy devs come to realise this huge gap in the market and grow into something solid,

    Hopefully...

    The only game company that i still trust in is Arenanet for their amasing work with GW1 but that may change if they are going soft with GW2!

    The "casual kids"? Most of the "casuals" I'm seeing are not kids. They're like me, 30's, kid, wife, job. Most of the Hardcore sandbox players I see tend to be teens to 20's, school, college, etc. You know, the folks with a little more time on their hands. There's nothing wrong with that, I would love to have more time. But I don't.  It shouldn't be a negative to be a casual player. 

     

    Also, why do I not hear you sandbox folks talking about or attempting to help these small games like Xyson Online and Wurm Online? They could be the exact game you're talking about, yet, I hear no one talking them up or trying to get some support. You could be donating to these smaller developers who are trying to make the game you want, instead, time is spent being angry at the folks who are getting what they want..... 

    id like to see you play Theamparks that look and feel like these two games. We might as well go back to EQ and UO and just be happy. In fact we should just go back to MUDs. Not buying it. You know what we want so dont insult us with such asinine statemants. You know for a fact that you wouldent play Theams that play that shitty, why should we have to.

  • rdashrdash Member Posts: 121

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    I completly agree with the OP.

    It is partly due to todays cullture, even across the globe, people are consumed by instant gratification. First it was making thier lives easier, but now its in everything. Even in our video games!

    Everywhere you go ts the same thing, instant this and instant that. Nobody wants to spend anytime working at anything, not in thier lives and certainly not in thier games.

    The game companies have simply catered to what the people are like these days, its very sad.....

    Wait, it's sad that games cater to people who play for fun? It's sad that they are not second job? It's sad that after a day of hard work you can play for an hour and get something out of it? Because, you know, entertainment was always about it. It's not like you have to jump on treadmill to watch movie or read a book. People have limited fun time, don't be surprised if they don't want to spend it working, most of them have more than enough of RL work.

    It wouldn't be as bad if by work you meant overcoming challenge, because quite a lot of players (casual ones included) truly enjoy that. But the problem is, people use this argument to defend grind and time sinks. That's the worst kind of work - not used to better yourself, but to force yourself to do mind numbingly boring stuff, that doesn't pass as entertainment even by most inclusive definitions of it.

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