Nice try trying to tell everyone that they like what you like though. That took balls.
All the science supports what I said. the brain is far more efficient when its not multitasking thus it can process story information better. Again disputing this is like disputting with MIT.
Efficiency has nothing to do with personal preference.
WRONG!
so there is a word called 'scientific fact' and if something passes the cretria of the scientific process its considered fact and not personal perference. They have attached wires to peoples brain and studied this question in detail from many different univeristies and despite how much people want to think otherwise its true. When you are focused on one thing at a time you process the information better...peroid REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE. I watched a two hour program on Frontline about this question.
You're clearly trying to argue something completely unrelated to what I'm saying. So I think we're done here.
so there is a word called 'scientific fact' and if something passes the cretria of the scientific process its considered fact and not personal perference. They have attached wires to peoples brain and studied this question in detail from many different univeristies and despite how much people want to think otherwise its true. When you are focused on one thing at a time you process the information better...peroid REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE. I watched a two hour program on Frontline about this question.
Your first mistake was assuming anyone (besides me of course) on MMORPG.com is logical and actually cares about fact.
Facts are whatever we (they) want them to be - you just have to believe hard enough and use as many catch phrase buzz words as possible like "fail" "wowclone" "themepark" etc.
so there is a word called 'scientific fact' and if something passes the cretria of the scientific process its considered fact and not personal perference. They have attached wires to peoples brain and studied this question in detail from many different univeristies and despite how much people want to think otherwise its true. When you are focused on one thing at a time you process the information better...peroid REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE. I watched a two hour program on Frontline about this question.
Your first mistake was assuming anyone (besides me of course) on MMORPG.com is logical and actually cares about fact.
Facts are whatever we (they) want them to be - you just have to believe hard enough and use as many catch phrase buzz words as possible like "fail" "wowclone" "themepark" etc.
His first mistake was completely changing the subject. Trying to bring up efficiency of brain processing when I only mentioned that different people enjoy different things. Replying to "I like hot dogs" with "Hot dogs are made from many unhealthy ingredients" doesn't make "I like hot dogs" any less true.
so there is a word called 'scientific fact' and if something passes the cretria of the scientific process its considered fact and not personal perference. They have attached wires to peoples brain and studied this question in detail from many different univeristies and despite how much people want to think otherwise its true. When you are focused on one thing at a time you process the information better...peroid REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE. I watched a two hour program on Frontline about this question.
Your first mistake was assuming anyone (besides me of course) on MMORPG.com is logical and actually cares about fact.
Facts are whatever we (they) want them to be - you just have to believe hard enough and use as many catch phrase buzz words as possible like "fail" "wowclone" "themepark" etc.
His first mistake was completely changing the subject. Trying to bring up efficiency of brain processing when I only mentioned that different people enjoy different things. Replying to "I like hot dogs" with "Hot dogs are made from many unhealthy ingredients" doesn't make "I like hot dogs" any less true.
Let me tell you something about MMORPG STORY. STORY is not a "pillar". It's a "pill". A big damn sleeping pill.
I don´t agree with you.
Story can be interesting but you should leave the background story in the background. Forcing it down people throats at all time isn´t good but story is still a very important thing.
With no story a game is just randomly generated stuff and that ain´t fun. You should feel that the world makes sense and tthat there are reasons behind everything, but you should also be able to ignore all that if you feel like it.
Singel MMOs with story like TOR work great since you are playing those a shorter period, in a MMO I however think that the story needs to be more subtile and less in the focus that Bioware made here. Otherwise it tends to get annoying in the long run.
The problem is not the story as such but how you present it to the players.
In my dream world I would like to see it possible to create a survey of most MMO players to the question of 'do you care about the story line' AND have them answer questions about the existing storyline just to make sure they are being honest.
Reason is I have only met one MMO player who read the story lines. The arguement of course has been 'well if the story was any good' well the only way to know if the story is any good is to have actually read it and most people I know dont do that and for good reason. games are for DOING, movies are for watching.
Doing is just one part of what games are about. Games are for entertainment, and many people find good stories entertaining. Maybe the people you know just dont like to read (or are possibly not very good at it...I notice a lot of that particularly in the US).
Story may not be everyone's thing, just like PvP isn't everyone's thing, or crafting isn't everyone's thing. So maybe its not your group of friends' thing. Thats in no way an accurate representation of everyone.
Turns out this is wrong.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
Millions play and like mass effect, fallout 3 and other story driven games. So i will say you are wrong. And i am sure the investors r quite happy of how mass effect turned out.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
Millions play and like mass effect, fallout 3 and other story driven games. So i will say you are wrong. And i am sure the investors r quite happy of how mass effect turned out.
You people amaze me.
He never said it was the only way people enjoyed story, just that non-interactive story telling (i.e. movies, books) is scientifically proven to be more engaging when it comes to how, chemically, the brain processes the information.
so there is a word called 'scientific fact' and if something passes the cretria of the scientific process its considered fact and not personal perference. They have attached wires to peoples brain and studied this question in detail from many different univeristies and despite how much people want to think otherwise its true. When you are focused on one thing at a time you process the information better...peroid REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE. I watched a two hour program on Frontline about this question.
Your first mistake was assuming anyone (besides me of course) on MMORPG.com is logical and actually cares about fact.
Facts are whatever we (they) want them to be - you just have to believe hard enough and use as many catch phrase buzz words as possible like "fail" "wowclone" "themepark" etc.
I am starting to think I am being trolled.
I simply stated in my response what was factual in my position and what was my opinion. Someone else told me I was wrong. Was I not suppose to repond to that? Here at MMORPG. conversations about facts and opinions are EXTREEMLY common I was just helping to clarify so that people do not get confused and yet here we are anyway.
never the less, its not opinion. The story teller can give you a much deeper story and a better story telling experience if they have your undivided attention and one can easily extrapolate from the facts that its logical that as a result movies and books will always provide a better story telling experience.
many people however WANT it to not be true, although they havent ever experienced it they BELIEVE its possible that a game can provide as good as or better than movie based experience. The only trouble is they have zero evidence to back up their assumption
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Fadedbomb
A highly flawed arguement. Oh, and SWTOR IS, in fact, below 1million subscribers as of last week. You can check this by looking @ xfire's numbers and then multiplying by 5 (to account for people not online, and for people not using xfire) as a way to "Generously" guess.
This is all it takes to become "fact" on MMORPG.com? Amazing.
Apparently, when you have nothing else to support an argument, XFire can be used to support whatever your argument happens to be.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
uh, and maybe you should play the game before commting on it, just a thought, the missions actually DO differ, a fact you would have noticed at about lvl 10 at least ^^
uh and btw, thats what gaming is about.
A interacts with B. what else should there be?
and if you want to have more than one room, you have to send people from C to D....
"uhhhhh all cars are having 4 wheels and steering wheels! wtf is this shit i want sth new! i won't drive the new porsche i will stick to my trabant!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I'm also a very long time MMO vet. I definitely care about opinions (constructive ones anyway). Helps me decide whether I might want to try a game or not. I gave SWTOR a try mostly because of people at my job who seem to really enjoy it.
S'not a bad game. Still kind of new to it, but I like the story bits. I was expecting a total clone of WoW from what I've heard here but, it does seem to differ a lot more than many other games out there at the moment.
Off topic because the topic was about personal enjoyment not about brain effeciency but I would have to disagree with Sean.
I've taken numerous classes on theories of learning, motor learning, schema theory, skill acquisition... By far the majority of studies I have read have shown that brain processing and effiiciency works along a bell curve model, where some distractions such as enjoyable background music or white noise actually improves brain processing and function by stimulating additional areas of the brain. While too much distraction will decrease performance.
The theory that was developed to explain this states that the more areas of your brain you can get involved in a task the more likely it will be to be stored in long term memory. Study typically involves movement and sight, but enjoyable background noise gets auditory centers and emotive centers involved as well. And many many studies have shown that when emotional areas are involved memory and learning are greatly enhanced. The addition of colours into study/learning as well seems to increase learning and processing by stimulating arousal.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Doing is just one part of what games are about. Games are for entertainment, and many people find good stories entertaining. Maybe the people you know just dont like to read (or are possibly not very good at it...I notice a lot of that particularly in the US).
Story may not be everyone's thing, just like PvP isn't everyone's thing, or crafting isn't everyone's thing. So maybe its not your group of friends' thing. Thats in no way an accurate representation of everyone.
Turns out this is wrong.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
You know...
I don't like SWTOR's focus on story, I never did. I just don't think the way they did it works well in an MMORPG.
But statements like the one above, even though they technically agree with me...they just hurt my argument. Saying that interactive stories are a "silly fools path?" Come on...really?
Interactive stories have been a part of video games since the dawn of the RPG genre. Saying they are a fool's path is such a ridiculous and extremist argument that it makes the rest of us who think the SWTOR's methods just don't work well with MMORPGs look bad.
Doing is just one part of what games are about. Games are for entertainment, and many people find good stories entertaining. Maybe the people you know just dont like to read (or are possibly not very good at it...I notice a lot of that particularly in the US).
Story may not be everyone's thing, just like PvP isn't everyone's thing, or crafting isn't everyone's thing. So maybe its not your group of friends' thing. Thats in no way an accurate representation of everyone.
Turns out this is wrong.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
You know...
I don't like SWTOR's focus on story, I never did. I just don't think the way they did it works well in an MMORPG.
But statements like the one above, even though they technically agree with me...they just hurt my argument. Saying that interactive stories are a "silly fools path?" Come on...really?
Interactive stories have been a part of video games since the dawn of the RPG genre. Saying they are a fool's path is such a ridiculous and extremist argument that it makes the rest of us who think the SWTOR's methods just don't work well with MMORPGs look bad.
it is my opinion that its exactly that. Its my opinion that often people THINK they like a game because of the story but what really makes it enjoyable is the game play.
Personally, I have never followed a story in a game and I never cared to. I know one person in my gaming life who does (not claims that he does but actually does). Granted my pool of people isnt that large.
Now understand trying to solve a puzzle that is in the story is fine, its not the story of the puzzle that draws you in though, its the inteaction of solving the puzzle that does and there is a difference
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Doing is just one part of what games are about. Games are for entertainment, and many people find good stories entertaining. Maybe the people you know just dont like to read (or are possibly not very good at it...I notice a lot of that particularly in the US).
Story may not be everyone's thing, just like PvP isn't everyone's thing, or crafting isn't everyone's thing. So maybe its not your group of friends' thing. Thats in no way an accurate representation of everyone.
Turns out this is wrong.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
You know...
I don't like SWTOR's focus on story, I never did. I just don't think the way they did it works well in an MMORPG.
But statements like the one above, even though they technically agree with me...they just hurt my argument. Saying that interactive stories are a "silly fools path?" Come on...really?
Interactive stories have been a part of video games since the dawn of the RPG genre. Saying they are a fool's path is such a ridiculous and extremist argument that it makes the rest of us who think the SWTOR's methods just don't work well with MMORPGs look bad.
it is my opinion that its exactly that. Its my opinion that often people THINK they like a game because of the story but what really makes it enjoyable is the game play.
Personally, I have never followed a story in a game and I never cared to. I know one person in my gaming life who does (not claims that he does but actually does). Granted my pool of people isnt that large
Look, I know where you are coming from. Some crappy games try to hide behind a passable story to survive.
But your viewpoint essentially dismisses an entire artform. Look at games like Heavy Rain. It's pretty much ALL story with interactive elements. BUT the interactive elements really add something to the story. Its interactive elements are weaved into the story in a way that makes the whole experience better.
The problem happens when a game's interactive elements and story completely clash...like SWTOR.
Comments
You're clearly trying to argue something completely unrelated to what I'm saying. So I think we're done here.
Your first mistake was assuming anyone (besides me of course) on MMORPG.com is logical and actually cares about fact.
Facts are whatever we (they) want them to be - you just have to believe hard enough and use as many catch phrase buzz words as possible like "fail" "wowclone" "themepark" etc.
His first mistake was completely changing the subject. Trying to bring up efficiency of brain processing when I only mentioned that different people enjoy different things. Replying to "I like hot dogs" with "Hot dogs are made from many unhealthy ingredients" doesn't make "I like hot dogs" any less true.
Pink slime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don´t agree with you.
Story can be interesting but you should leave the background story in the background. Forcing it down people throats at all time isn´t good but story is still a very important thing.
With no story a game is just randomly generated stuff and that ain´t fun. You should feel that the world makes sense and tthat there are reasons behind everything, but you should also be able to ignore all that if you feel like it.
Singel MMOs with story like TOR work great since you are playing those a shorter period, in a MMO I however think that the story needs to be more subtile and less in the focus that Bioware made here. Otherwise it tends to get annoying in the long run.
The problem is not the story as such but how you present it to the players.
In my dream world I would like to see it possible to create a survey of most MMO players to the question of 'do you care about the story line' AND have them answer questions about the existing storyline just to make sure they are being honest.
Reason is I have only met one MMO player who read the story lines. The arguement of course has been 'well if the story was any good' well the only way to know if the story is any good is to have actually read it and most people I know dont do that and for good reason. games are for DOING, movies are for watching.
Doing is just one part of what games are about. Games are for entertainment, and many people find good stories entertaining. Maybe the people you know just dont like to read (or are possibly not very good at it...I notice a lot of that particularly in the US).
Story may not be everyone's thing, just like PvP isn't everyone's thing, or crafting isn't everyone's thing. So maybe its not your group of friends' thing. Thats in no way an accurate representation of everyone.
Turns out this is wrong.
Story telling is best when the audience has complete attention. You can only have complete attention when you are not doing other things. This is not opinion this is fact. Thus story telling will ALWAYS be better as movies, books and the like. We are not aware of it but we play games to interact and create in areas we lack in real life. We CREATE stories but we do not look for games to fill our story telling needs.
The first part of what I am saying is fact, the second part of what I am saying just makes sense to me and like I said, I have only met one person in my entire gaming life who actually cares at all about the story.
Interactive stories are a silly fools path and I pitty the fool who invests in them
Millions play and like mass effect, fallout 3 and other story driven games. So i will say you are wrong. And i am sure the investors r quite happy of how mass effect turned out.You people amaze me.
He never said it was the only way people enjoyed story, just that non-interactive story telling (i.e. movies, books) is scientifically proven to be more engaging when it comes to how, chemically, the brain processes the information.
I am starting to think I am being trolled.
I simply stated in my response what was factual in my position and what was my opinion. Someone else told me I was wrong. Was I not suppose to repond to that? Here at MMORPG. conversations about facts and opinions are EXTREEMLY common I was just helping to clarify so that people do not get confused and yet here we are anyway.
never the less, its not opinion. The story teller can give you a much deeper story and a better story telling experience if they have your undivided attention and one can easily extrapolate from the facts that its logical that as a result movies and books will always provide a better story telling experience.
many people however WANT it to not be true, although they havent ever experienced it they BELIEVE its possible that a game can provide as good as or better than movie based experience. The only trouble is they have zero evidence to back up their assumption
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Amazing.
Apparently, when you have nothing else to support an argument, XFire can be used to support whatever your argument happens to be.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
{mod edit}
uh, and maybe you should play the game before commting on it, just a thought, the missions actually DO differ, a fact you would have noticed at about lvl 10 at least ^^
uh and btw, thats what gaming is about.
A interacts with B. what else should there be?
and if you want to have more than one room, you have to send people from C to D....
"uhhhhh all cars are having 4 wheels and steering wheels! wtf is this shit i want sth new! i won't drive the new porsche i will stick to my trabant!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I'm also a very long time MMO vet. I definitely care about opinions (constructive ones anyway). Helps me decide whether I might want to try a game or not. I gave SWTOR a try mostly because of people at my job who seem to really enjoy it.
S'not a bad game. Still kind of new to it, but I like the story bits. I was expecting a total clone of WoW from what I've heard here but, it does seem to differ a lot more than many other games out there at the moment.
Off topic because the topic was about personal enjoyment not about brain effeciency but I would have to disagree with Sean.
I've taken numerous classes on theories of learning, motor learning, schema theory, skill acquisition... By far the majority of studies I have read have shown that brain processing and effiiciency works along a bell curve model, where some distractions such as enjoyable background music or white noise actually improves brain processing and function by stimulating additional areas of the brain. While too much distraction will decrease performance.
The theory that was developed to explain this states that the more areas of your brain you can get involved in a task the more likely it will be to be stored in long term memory. Study typically involves movement and sight, but enjoyable background noise gets auditory centers and emotive centers involved as well. And many many studies have shown that when emotional areas are involved memory and learning are greatly enhanced. The addition of colours into study/learning as well seems to increase learning and processing by stimulating arousal.
This thread is not innovative.
[mod edit]
You know...
I don't like SWTOR's focus on story, I never did. I just don't think the way they did it works well in an MMORPG.
But statements like the one above, even though they technically agree with me...they just hurt my argument. Saying that interactive stories are a "silly fools path?" Come on...really?
Interactive stories have been a part of video games since the dawn of the RPG genre. Saying they are a fool's path is such a ridiculous and extremist argument that it makes the rest of us who think the SWTOR's methods just don't work well with MMORPGs look bad.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
[mod edit]
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
[mod edit]
it is my opinion that its exactly that. Its my opinion that often people THINK they like a game because of the story but what really makes it enjoyable is the game play.
Personally, I have never followed a story in a game and I never cared to. I know one person in my gaming life who does (not claims that he does but actually does). Granted my pool of people isnt that large.
Now understand trying to solve a puzzle that is in the story is fine, its not the story of the puzzle that draws you in though, its the inteaction of solving the puzzle that does and there is a difference
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Look, I know where you are coming from. Some crappy games try to hide behind a passable story to survive.
But your viewpoint essentially dismisses an entire artform. Look at games like Heavy Rain. It's pretty much ALL story with interactive elements. BUT the interactive elements really add something to the story. Its interactive elements are weaved into the story in a way that makes the whole experience better.
The problem happens when a game's interactive elements and story completely clash...like SWTOR.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
My gaming blog
[mod edit]
My gaming blog
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
My gaming blog