It's too late, doesn't matter is SWTOR is succesful or not. New devs and investors hardly know how EQ or UO were 10 years ago. The spirit of those MMOs are gone and forgotten. They just know one thing "WOW made a fortune" and that's the spirit that leads them.
If World of Warcraft had tanked when it came out, the MMO genre would have stayed a fringe niche
Uhm...
No, not really
WOW was not first, nor is it most sucessful MMO (That honors goes to Lineage)
And to Everquest for bringing MMO to mainstream (as well as Second Life)
WOW was simply a huge popular fad.
Its same like saying that without MTV music videos would never been popular.
No, I agree with him.
It doesn't matter that it wasn't first. It did take the stigma away from mmo's in general. Lineage may have been huge but in the east, not in the west.
mmo's were for the geeky. The only thing i ever saw concering mmo's was how people were spending too much time in Everquest and buying virtual goods and essentially a lot of bad TV reports about how Everquest was causing problems in people's lives.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It doesn't matter that it wasn't first. It did take the stigma away from mmo's in general. Lineage may have been huge but in the east, not in the west.
mmo's were for the geeky. The only thing i ever saw concering mmo's was how people were spending too much time in Everquest and buying virtual goods and essentially a lot of bad TV reports about how Everquest was causing problems in people's lives.
In all fairness, WoW shares the same stigma. This hasn't changed. The WoW episode of South Park is a perfect example.
It doesn't matter that it wasn't first. It did take the stigma away from mmo's in general. Lineage may have been huge but in the east, not in the west.
mmo's were for the geeky. The only thing i ever saw concering mmo's was how people were spending too much time in Everquest and buying virtual goods and essentially a lot of bad TV reports about how Everquest was causing problems in people's lives.
In all fairness, WoW shares the same stigma. This hasn't changed. The WoW episode of South Park is a perfect example.
Well I wouldn't go as far as to say that everyone and their mother is playing WoW. I realize gamers think that video games are common place but from what I've seen it's more games like angry birds or puzzle type games.
For the most part i would never tell anyone I play mmo's or RPG's because it's looked at as too geeky.
Still, WoW has put them more in the everyday spotlight and there are people who are trying them "just because" or a friend brought them in.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't worry a bit. I've seen the beast for what it is and others have seen it too. Metactritic user score is scathing and for some reason the reviewers have started feeling a need to appologize for the score they've gven it. It'll do it's run and that's going to be it. Its basic structure is not conductive for long-term retention.
I'd panic and run around in a circle if there were no alternatives on the horizon, but there are, and I'm sure at least one of them will be succesful enough to survive and flourish. I don't give a rat's ass about SW:TOR's success or failure, in fact. If someone wants to replay dull cutscenes explaining exactly why he needs to kill those ten rats and considers that killing Revan for his uber pants does justice to the IP, them let them. I just don't want to know about it.
I know many people who don't like SW:TOR (the evil, icoherent "haters") fear that it's going to be the next WoW and screw up mmo development for the nex ten years. It is not. WoW had many things goring for it at that particular time, it offered stuff that other rpgs couldn't match. SW:TOR does not offer anything but the IP and it does so badly. It's a novelty game and frankly I don't believe EA's report. They're cooking the numbers because they can't afford to fail so big. All the trend watchers point to one thing - SW:TOR's playerbase is shrinking. We might discuss how fast or whatever else, but it's not gaining more players than it's loosing. This combined with the fact that they sold less copies than they expected (no, i don't believe they're happy with 2 mil, not by far) tells me all I need to know.
I don't worry a bit. I've seen the beast for what it is and others have seen it too. Metactritic user score is scathing and for some reason the reviewers have started feeling a need to appologize for the score they've gven it. It'll do it's run and that's going to be it. Its basic structure is not conductive for long-term retention.
I'd panic and run around in a circle if there were no alternatives on the horizon, but there are, and I'm sure at least one of them will be succesful enough to survive and flourish. I don't give a rat's ass about SW:TOR's success or failure, in fact. If someone wants to replay dull cutscenes explaining exactly why he needs to kill those ten rats and considers that killing Revan for his uber pants does justice to the IP, them let them. I just don't want to know about it.
I know many people who don't like SW:TOR (the evil, icoherent "haters") fear that it's going to be the next WoW and screw up mmo development for the nex ten years. It is not. WoW had many things goring for it at that particular time, it offered stuff that other rpgs couldn't match. SW:TOR does not offer anything but the IP and it does so badly. It's a novelty game and frankly I don't believe EA's report. They're cooking the numbers because they can't afford to fail so big. All the trend watchers point to one thing - SW:TOR's playerbase is shrinking. We might discuss how fast or whatever else, but it's not gaining more players than it's loosing. This combined with the fact that they sold less copies than they expected (no, i don't believe they're happy with 2 mil, not by far) tells me all I need to know.
OP, your analogy with the hotdog stands and McDonalds chains is completely illogical. Much like a city, MMO players are made up of many different opinions and groups - not some mob who simply flocks to one thing or another. Yes, many people will go to the hamburger stands of your analogy - WoW, SWTOR, Rift, etc. - but that still leaves many people looking for another game.
The biggest reason sandbox fans don't have a game? They can't find anything that will make them happy. Seriously, there are sandbox games out there, and if they're the end-all-be-all of online gaming, why aren't their fans playing them?
WURM Online is an almost completely open fantasy sandbox game. Yet, it has terrible graphics because it is from a small indie developer as well as having a developing - not yet implemented - list of features. Many people avoid it because of those reasons, failing to realize that games are powered and created by money. This is especially true of games made by indie developers.
EVE Online is an open space sandbox game. People complain about the setting and genre, as well as cash shops, as reasons for not playing it; when CCP takes action to improve parts of the game for people who are on the fence about it, such as adding full-body avatars, people further complain about changes to it (even when they're not playing it).
'A Tale in the Desert' has been going on for years. It's been through several incarnations, and people obviously enjoy it to some extent. Yet, it's not combat based. It's all about groupwork and crafting - so even though it's a sandbox, completely dictated by what the players accomplish, people avoid it because it's not the sandbox they want.
I could go on and on about existing games that sandbox fans could play. The point is, these games become successful because people pay for them. People want to play them so much, they'll put money down. This not only fuels the development of that game, but attracts other people to try and mimic that success.
Want to know why no AAA developer is making any sandbox games? Because fans of the genre itself won't even put any money towards the cheaper, already existing games out there. SWTOR reinforces that people will pay for things they actually want to play.
I don't worry a bit. I've seen the beast for what it is and others have seen it too. Metactritic user score is scathing and for some reason the reviewers have started feeling a need to appologize for the score they've gven it. It'll do it's run and that's going to be it. Its basic structure is not conductive for long-term retention.
I'd panic and run around in a circle if there were no alternatives on the horizon, but there are, and I'm sure at least one of them will be succesful enough to survive and flourish. I don't give a rat's ass about SW:TOR's success or failure, in fact. If someone wants to replay dull cutscenes explaining exactly why he needs to kill those ten rats and considers that killing Revan for his uber pants does justice to the IP, them let them. I just don't want to know about it.
I know many people who don't like SW:TOR (the evil, icoherent "haters") fear that it's going to be the next WoW and screw up mmo development for the nex ten years. It is not. WoW had many things goring for it at that particular time, it offered stuff that other rpgs couldn't match. SW:TOR does not offer anything but the IP and it does so badly. It's a novelty game and frankly I don't believe EA's report. They're cooking the numbers because they can't afford to fail so big. All the trend watchers point to one thing - SW:TOR's playerbase is shrinking. We might discuss how fast or whatever else, but it's not gaining more players than it's loosing. This combined with the fact that they sold less copies than they expected (no, i don't believe they're happy with 2 mil, not by far) tells me all I need to know.
Hyperbole much?
I'm bored. I tend to do that when I'm bored... Yawn, jeez I'm playing Settlers II 10 year edition cause there's nothing else interesting out atm... that's how bored I am!
OP - Its clear that what you are looking for is a sandbox game. The thing is, these games are rarely successful monetarily. They do not appeal to the mainstream gamer and are often seen as inaccessible to most people. Gamers log in, realize that there is virtually no direction, and then log out in frustration. While I understand that this appeals to you (and even myself at times), you have to understand that it may not appeal to the majority. It just isn't where the 'smart' money is... and make no mistake, EVERY game company is after the money.
The reason that SWTOR's success is good for the industry is because, other than Wow and maybe Rift, almost no other ventures, some of which have been "different" and had big IPs behind them, have been particularly successful at all.
At least now the game makers know that there's still a market for new MMOs whereas before SWTOR a game maker might have decided to stick to console games or single player rpgs.
All we know is that it has been a MONTH and the game hasn't faceplanted yet. Isn't this just a little too early to call SWTOR a massive success and mourn its impact on the industry's future?
If SWTOR still has 1.7 million subscribers in July, then call me. But for now, I really don't think this means anything.
Addendum...
To people who think EA is "lying"...I don't really know what you expected to see in a month's time. Did you expect the game to lose all its subscribers in the first few weeks? Really? I don't think this happened with Rift, so why would it happen with SWTOR? SWTOR has enough content as just a single player game to last a few months. Why do you think people would just quit in the first few weeks?
Originally posted by Creslin321 Okay guys...reality check here. All we know is that it has been a MONTH and the game hasn't faceplanted yet. Isn't this just a little too early to call SWTOR a massive success and mourn its impact on the industry's future? If SWTOR still has 1.7 million subscribers in July, then call me. But for now, I really don't think this means anything. Addendum... To people who think EA is "lying"...I don't really know what you expected to see in a month's time. Did you expect the game to lose all its subscribers in the first few weeks? Really? I don't think this happened with Rift, so why would it happen with SWTOR? SWTOR has enough content as just a single player game to last a few months. Why do you think people would just quit in the first few weeks?
If it's not too early to call it a massive failure, then it's not too early to call it a massive success. *shrug* Guessers gonna guess, haters gonna hate and fanbois gonna fan.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
All we know is that it has been a MONTH and the game hasn't faceplanted yet. Isn't this just a little too early to call SWTOR a massive success and mourn its impact on the industry's future?
If SWTOR still has 1.7 million subscribers in July, then call me. But for now, I really don't think this means anything.
Addendum...
To people who think EA is "lying"...I don't really know what you expected to see in a month's time. Did you expect the game to lose all its subscribers in the first few weeks? Really? I don't think this happened with Rift, so why would it happen with SWTOR? SWTOR has enough content as just a single player game to last a few months. Why do you think people would just quit in the first few weeks?
If it's not too early to call it a massive failure, then it's not too early to call it a massive success. *shrug* Guessers gonna guess, haters gonna hate and fanbois gonna fan.
I like the old style point and click adventure games. sure they are some small companies making them and in a very slow pace while FPS game coming out left and right.
Should I blame people who likes FPS game for lack of adventure game ?
Originally posted by zakiyawow I like the old style point and click adventure games. sure they are some small companies making them and in a very slow pace while FPS game coming out left and right. Should I blame people who likes FPS game for lack of adventure game ?
You should also complain about companies not having the guts to put out a point and click adventure game.
** edit ** On a related note (sort of) the Nancy Drew series of adventures is still getting new additions on a fairly regular basis.
** edit edit ** You can buy them on Steam.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No, although I understand your theory it is not based in reality whatsoever.
Fact is any success in the MMO market only improves the chance for another MMO venture to receive funding. Just because it's themepark don't think every venture capitalist or software publisher is only entertaining WoW clones. The market is only so big and they know you can't take significant market share without innovation.
You're also not counting on what I call the garage factor. Right now there are probably hundreds if not thousands of super nerds working on the next big thing because just like you they are sick of the same old same old. One of them might end up being the next "Steve Jobs" of MMO's changing the face of the market forever. That's the great thing about creativity mixed with the power of technology, it changes everything at the speed of the internet.
PS Your post is longwinded and repetitious, could have been a couple paragraphs.
I like the old style point and click adventure games. sure they are some small companies making them and in a very slow pace while FPS game coming out left and right.
Should I blame people who likes FPS game for lack of adventure game ?
You should also complain about companies not having the guts to put out a point and click adventure game.
** edit **
On a related note (sort of) the Nancy Drew series of adventures is still getting new additions on a fairly regular basis.
** edit edit **
You can buy them on Steam.
Nancy Drew game sucks lol I am talking about Quality like Monkey island ( Earlier one, the new one is barely ok ), Loom, King's Quest, Days of the tentacle..etc
Edit :
Then again, it would be like what OP is saying. Now all I ( and other people who love those quality adventure games ) can play is this silly Nancy Drew crap.
Should I scream at people who buy them ? Also at companies that do not invest money to make more because its a small market ? At gamers who favors RTS, FPS and other games which sells more?
Don't take Pratcher's sales pitch yesterday as a sign of success OP, he intentionally omitted dates and numbers to spin the damage he set himself up. Remember, this is the same guy who estimated 3-4 million sales and 1.5 subs a year ago. If my money was in this game, I would be pulling it out about now, the 1.7 number included trial period subs and he left out , intentionally, how many have actually "paid" to subscribe an additional month. Which in my book means, bad tidings. Otherwise he would have yelled it out at the top of his lungs yesterday.
Comments
It's too late, doesn't matter is SWTOR is succesful or not. New devs and investors hardly know how EQ or UO were 10 years ago. The spirit of those MMOs are gone and forgotten. They just know one thing "WOW made a fortune" and that's the spirit that leads them.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
vote with your wallet and keep walkin. 7 Mcdonalds will sprout up only to have a FIVE Guys to shake things up.
Uhm...
No, not really
WOW was not first, nor is it most sucessful MMO (That honors goes to Lineage)
And to Everquest for bringing MMO to mainstream (as well as Second Life)
WOW was simply a huge popular fad.
Its same like saying that without MTV music videos would never been popular.
No, I agree with him.
It doesn't matter that it wasn't first. It did take the stigma away from mmo's in general. Lineage may have been huge but in the east, not in the west.
mmo's were for the geeky. The only thing i ever saw concering mmo's was how people were spending too much time in Everquest and buying virtual goods and essentially a lot of bad TV reports about how Everquest was causing problems in people's lives.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
In all fairness, WoW shares the same stigma. This hasn't changed. The WoW episode of South Park is a perfect example.
Well I wouldn't go as far as to say that everyone and their mother is playing WoW. I realize gamers think that video games are common place but from what I've seen it's more games like angry birds or puzzle type games.
For the most part i would never tell anyone I play mmo's or RPG's because it's looked at as too geeky.
Still, WoW has put them more in the everyday spotlight and there are people who are trying them "just because" or a friend brought them in.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No one will do an MMO for hot dog lovers cause there's no money to be made
eqnext.wikia.com
I don't worry a bit. I've seen the beast for what it is and others have seen it too. Metactritic user score is scathing and for some reason the reviewers have started feeling a need to appologize for the score they've gven it. It'll do it's run and that's going to be it. Its basic structure is not conductive for long-term retention.
I'd panic and run around in a circle if there were no alternatives on the horizon, but there are, and I'm sure at least one of them will be succesful enough to survive and flourish. I don't give a rat's ass about SW:TOR's success or failure, in fact. If someone wants to replay dull cutscenes explaining exactly why he needs to kill those ten rats and considers that killing Revan for his uber pants does justice to the IP, them let them. I just don't want to know about it.
I know many people who don't like SW:TOR (the evil, icoherent "haters") fear that it's going to be the next WoW and screw up mmo development for the nex ten years. It is not. WoW had many things goring for it at that particular time, it offered stuff that other rpgs couldn't match. SW:TOR does not offer anything but the IP and it does so badly. It's a novelty game and frankly I don't believe EA's report. They're cooking the numbers because they can't afford to fail so big. All the trend watchers point to one thing - SW:TOR's playerbase is shrinking. We might discuss how fast or whatever else, but it's not gaining more players than it's loosing. This combined with the fact that they sold less copies than they expected (no, i don't believe they're happy with 2 mil, not by far) tells me all I need to know.
Hyperbole much?
OP, your analogy with the hotdog stands and McDonalds chains is completely illogical. Much like a city, MMO players are made up of many different opinions and groups - not some mob who simply flocks to one thing or another. Yes, many people will go to the hamburger stands of your analogy - WoW, SWTOR, Rift, etc. - but that still leaves many people looking for another game.
The biggest reason sandbox fans don't have a game? They can't find anything that will make them happy. Seriously, there are sandbox games out there, and if they're the end-all-be-all of online gaming, why aren't their fans playing them?
WURM Online is an almost completely open fantasy sandbox game. Yet, it has terrible graphics because it is from a small indie developer as well as having a developing - not yet implemented - list of features. Many people avoid it because of those reasons, failing to realize that games are powered and created by money. This is especially true of games made by indie developers.
EVE Online is an open space sandbox game. People complain about the setting and genre, as well as cash shops, as reasons for not playing it; when CCP takes action to improve parts of the game for people who are on the fence about it, such as adding full-body avatars, people further complain about changes to it (even when they're not playing it).
'A Tale in the Desert' has been going on for years. It's been through several incarnations, and people obviously enjoy it to some extent. Yet, it's not combat based. It's all about groupwork and crafting - so even though it's a sandbox, completely dictated by what the players accomplish, people avoid it because it's not the sandbox they want.
I could go on and on about existing games that sandbox fans could play. The point is, these games become successful because people pay for them. People want to play them so much, they'll put money down. This not only fuels the development of that game, but attracts other people to try and mimic that success.
Want to know why no AAA developer is making any sandbox games? Because fans of the genre itself won't even put any money towards the cheaper, already existing games out there. SWTOR reinforces that people will pay for things they actually want to play.
I'm bored. I tend to do that when I'm bored... Yawn, jeez I'm playing Settlers II 10 year edition cause there's nothing else interesting out atm... that's how bored I am!
OP - Its clear that what you are looking for is a sandbox game. The thing is, these games are rarely successful monetarily. They do not appeal to the mainstream gamer and are often seen as inaccessible to most people. Gamers log in, realize that there is virtually no direction, and then log out in frustration. While I understand that this appeals to you (and even myself at times), you have to understand that it may not appeal to the majority. It just isn't where the 'smart' money is... and make no mistake, EVERY game company is after the money.
The reason that SWTOR's success is good for the industry is because, other than Wow and maybe Rift, almost no other ventures, some of which have been "different" and had big IPs behind them, have been particularly successful at all.
At least now the game makers know that there's still a market for new MMOs whereas before SWTOR a game maker might have decided to stick to console games or single player rpgs.
Okay guys...reality check here.
All we know is that it has been a MONTH and the game hasn't faceplanted yet. Isn't this just a little too early to call SWTOR a massive success and mourn its impact on the industry's future?
If SWTOR still has 1.7 million subscribers in July, then call me. But for now, I really don't think this means anything.
Addendum...
To people who think EA is "lying"...I don't really know what you expected to see in a month's time. Did you expect the game to lose all its subscribers in the first few weeks? Really? I don't think this happened with Rift, so why would it happen with SWTOR? SWTOR has enough content as just a single player game to last a few months. Why do you think people would just quit in the first few weeks?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
If it's not too early to call it a massive failure, then it's not too early to call it a massive success. *shrug* Guessers gonna guess, haters gonna hate and fanbois gonna fan.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
How true it is lol
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I like the old style point and click adventure games. sure they are some small companies making them and in a very slow pace while FPS game coming out left and right.
Should I blame people who likes FPS game for lack of adventure game ?
What PC games sold more or 2 million copies in the last 10 years?
Not a whole lot.
I think what Bioware accomplished with SWTOR is stellar.
eqnext.wikia.com
HOW DARE GAMERS LIKE WHAT THEY LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!
You should also complain about companies not having the guts to put out a point and click adventure game.
** edit **
On a related note (sort of) the Nancy Drew series of adventures is still getting new additions on a fairly regular basis.
** edit edit **
You can buy them on Steam.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No, although I understand your theory it is not based in reality whatsoever.
Fact is any success in the MMO market only improves the chance for another MMO venture to receive funding. Just because it's themepark don't think every venture capitalist or software publisher is only entertaining WoW clones. The market is only so big and they know you can't take significant market share without innovation.
You're also not counting on what I call the garage factor. Right now there are probably hundreds if not thousands of super nerds working on the next big thing because just like you they are sick of the same old same old. One of them might end up being the next "Steve Jobs" of MMO's changing the face of the market forever. That's the great thing about creativity mixed with the power of technology, it changes everything at the speed of the internet.
PS Your post is longwinded and repetitious, could have been a couple paragraphs.
Great OP message.
You can sum it up saying
Bioware bet that we're morons. They won!
And we go "YAY!!!" thus prooving it forever
Now all other software houses can bet that we're morons!
Yayyy!
*shoots himself*
the best blog of the net
Nancy Drew game sucks lol I am talking about Quality like Monkey island ( Earlier one, the new one is barely ok ), Loom, King's Quest, Days of the tentacle..etc
Edit :
Then again, it would be like what OP is saying. Now all I ( and other people who love those quality adventure games ) can play is this silly Nancy Drew crap.
Should I scream at people who buy them ? Also at companies that do not invest money to make more because its a small market ? At gamers who favors RTS, FPS and other games which sells more?
So because someone likes that game, it makes them a moron. Seriously, that is pathetic that someone would think like that.
Don't take Pratcher's sales pitch yesterday as a sign of success OP, he intentionally omitted dates and numbers to spin the damage he set himself up. Remember, this is the same guy who estimated 3-4 million sales and 1.5 subs a year ago. If my money was in this game, I would be pulling it out about now, the 1.7 number included trial period subs and he left out , intentionally, how many have actually "paid" to subscribe an additional month. Which in my book means, bad tidings. Otherwise he would have yelled it out at the top of his lungs yesterday.