OP, you can't teach people to have higher standards.
So true! People flock to whatever is popular, not to mention there has been no good mmos out there since WoW. This is just a desperation thing to keep their mmo addiction satisfied until the next best thing arrives. Innovation and quality be damned!
Since the Video Game industry is apart of the entertainment industry, there is one rule and one rule only.
Go where the money is.
Simple as that, end of story. People are going to reminisce in the "good ol' hot dog days", but in reality they are stuck because only a SMALL majority want hot dogs. You are asking investors to take an unnecessary risk and throw their money back at something. This is risky buisness, and we all know that risky buisness doesn't fly unless there is true potential in something.
MMORPGs will allways stay the same unless a developer can prove otherwise, until then all major budget MMOs will be directed toward what HAS WORKED.
Haters gonna hate, but it is true and you can make all the analogies you want, people follow the money.
There is nothing to argue about - lately seen a few days in the media, a documention about our economy:
RIDICULOUS!
Can you imagine that ALMOST EVERYTHING is made/created not to last, no, to break? Our economy only WORKS if something breaks and you have to get a new one. Is it the date on our food - the fridge - BEST EXAMPLE your printer - even the cheap clothing from h&m which rips of literally after half a year - and even hardware.
With the exception that SWToR does not earn anything from updating for free. They do not sell a full package of content, yes, because they want to bind customers, they want to bind you for their games. So does every marketing-wh*re these days: "Bind customers or die."
So the conclusion is: A perfect product, which would last forever is DAMAGING our economy. And this mindset is SICK and has to STOP!
Originally posted by 4bsolute There is nothing to argue about - lately seen a few days in the media, a documention about our economy: RIDICULOUS! Can you imagine that ALMOST EVERYTHING is made/created not to last, no, to break? Our economy only WORKS if something breaks and you have to get a new one. Is it the date on our food - the fridge - BEST EXAMPLE your printer - even the cheap clothing from h&m which rips of literally after half a year - and even hardware. With the exception that SWToR does not earn anything from updating for free. They do not sell a full package of content, yes, because they want to bind customers, they want to bind you for their games. So does every marketing-wh*re these days: "Bind customers or die." So the conclusion is: A perfect product, which would last forever is DAMAGING our economy. And this mindset is SICK and has to STOP! Worldwide!
It works for Eve. We should implement it everywhere.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?
"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"
"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."
"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"
This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.
No...
What the op is saying is more like:
"A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"
"A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"
"A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"
What you are doing is taking opinion and suggesting it is more than just an opinion. The truth is that some people like chocolate and some like vanilla. What you are saying is that vanilla is bad as a fact.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by wrekognize Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. ...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:
the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs
this is perfect. read this and close thread. lol
Spot on! LOL close this thread. A picture is indeed worth a 1000 words and this really shows exactly what happens with every MMO release by some minority that is never happy to see that others are having fun on something they dont like.
If I had to describe MMORPG.com in one picture it would probably be that actually.
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms.
...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
Bah. I still have faith that this game will fail. Here is why:
a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds? No one.
b) self resurrection (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)
c) kill 10 jawas.
Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.
Since the Video Game industry is apart of the entertainment industry, there is one rule and one rule only.
Go where the money is.
But if we all were atheletes and porn stars, who would take care of all the other stuff?
Cash Rules Everything Around Me.. True, but despite what they teach us at a young age, we can't all be millionaires. The system isn't built that way..
The people at the top of these corps, the decision makers, have no invested emotion or interest in the product themselves rather than how much can they earn from them.. Since they have little or no experience in the things they are standing to "represent" they take the easy way out and just "look at what made the next man money"..
That basically takes little effort, little understanding and more of "just do what they did".. Before WoW showed us that MMO's COULD make lots of money, these CEO's and VP's wanted nothing to do with them.. Hell i'm sure some of them even predicted them to just die off eventually..
Hell, I still remember EA declaring that they would never make a video game based on MMA.. EVER... Well, THQ proved that an MMA game could make money and behold "EA SPORTS MMA"..
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."
Am I doing it right?
No. Try actually reading and comprehending the thread and then reply.
OP, I commend and agree with the sentiment of your thread, but I'm thinking your points will be swooshing over the heads of most people that come to it. Reading isn't a strong suit, in the US at least.
^ This. Reading really isn't a strong suit of a lot of the current generation of gamers, so it appears by seeing a lot of the jiberish that has preceeded me.
I commend the OP for stating what needs to be said.
Just like somebody once had the temerity to create a hamburger stand when everyone loved hot dogs, they became successful. Nobody will take that plunge anymore.
Going to have to disagree with you on that point. Every few years someone will take that "plunge" and that's how new ideas catch on and the whole cycle starts over. It happens in every industry and with every product. So don't lose faith in that regard.
As for the overall point of the thread, i'm not sure that even a failed SWTOR would be a real benefit to the genre. If that happened it might just mean investors wouldn't spend as much on any MMO's in the future, be they themeparks or sandboxes.
Bah. I still have faith that this game will fail. Here is why:
a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds? No one.
b) self resurrection (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)
c) kill 10 jawas.
Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.
Some people prefer the reset button the console provided. Some people prefer the challenge. Sadly, I'm guessing most people fall under pressing reset.
Originally posted by wrekognize Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by wrekognize Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. ...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful. My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Bah. I still have faith that this game will fail. Here is why:
a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds? No one.
b) self resurrection (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)
c) kill 10 jawas.
Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.
Of course, what was i thinking? Maybe they should make a game that can just play itself so that you never have to even consider losing. I remember a time when it was possible to lose video games. These days might as well just watch a damn movie as opposed to playing 90% of what is released.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms.
...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.
Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.
Still have my fingers crossed that this "MMO" will fail. I could have picked any MMO since WoW to fail but I picked this one because of the IP and the amount of money they spent on it.
Seriously. The OP has blinders on, thats all. He is seeing this game from a single persective, the MMO mechanics side. He sees nothing more than that, and as a result, he believes that is all there is to SWTOR. It simply is not reality though, short sited and narrowed vision. And of course when you formulate an argument based off such limited insite, you get this stuff he posted here.
This game is only bad for the genre if his reality was all SWTOR brought to the genre. You can argue each individual mechanical aspect of the games functionality all you want, that isnt what SWTOR brings to the genre, that just happens to be all the OP can see of it. I'm sorry for his lack of vision, honestly I am.
EDIT: Oh and to the dude above me, SWTOR is an MMORPG game, not an MMO. And thank you for so eliquently proving my point.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
EDIT: Oh and to the dude above me, SWTOR is an MMORPG game, not an MMO. And thank you for so eliquently proving my point.
SWTOR is a Massively Multiplayer Online game. As it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It is both. Just like the NFL is the Natitonal Football league, as much as it is a Football League.
EDIT: Oh and to the dude above me, SWTOR is an MMORPG game, not an MMO. And thank you for so eliquently proving my point.
SWTOR is a Massively Multiplayer Online game. As it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It is both. Just like the NFL is the Natitonal Football league, as much as it is a Football League.
Once again...exactly. Not seeing my point there is EXACTLY what I was saying. Thank you again.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Originally posted by wrekognize Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by wrekognize
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by wrekognize Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. ...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games. Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful. My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there. It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works. Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.
Not exactly, but sort of...maybe. We seem to agree that the industry isn't doomed and that the sky isn't falling.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs. It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them. So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms.
...
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.
Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.
Not exactly, but sort of...maybe. We seem to agree that the industry isn't doomed and that the sky isn't falling.
Variations can be of different magnitude. The current variation among the AAA mmorpgs is very small if compare to other genres such as Single Player RPGs and Adventure games. We still have still TSW, Archage and GW2 that may offer variation of a significantly higher magnitude, but if they all fail, we will be reaching a dark age of very narrow variation.
To the OP one of the best reads I have had In a while.. you are spot on my friend.. sadly the Fan Brigade will be out with Pitchforks and Bonfires...
And on a side note... I dont hate on SW:TOR because its new... I Object to it for other reasons... just like the OP
1: I belive the Genre has stagnated.. WoW is to blame for this, evry developer thinks, lets just make it somewhat like WoW and people will play, I think this assumption is wrong... And many failed copy cat games that have come out in the last years strenghtens my argument... people arnt looking to play another WoW clone..
2: When MMOs started they had a freedom feel to them, you were given tools, But the comunities of a server controled the politics.. With harsh deathpenelties.. deleveling, droped items, destroyed items, The worlds were cutthroat and dangrous. For me that was exiting.. I fondly remeber battles my Clan had when we played Linage2.. I remeber being chased and hunted, and knowing if my attackers got hold of me I might drop my gear and get deleveld.. it was thrilling.. You do not get this in modern theampark MMOS.. the feeling of Real dangour... Also in a place where you could get punished for your actions people setup rules, and your learn to socialize and make friends. In modern themparks you dont have this. Point is Freedom is gone, replaced by rails and fun-rides, MMOs are not thrilling or challeging anymore, they are a pass time hobby you can do in your off hours... you need zero comitment...
3: Stagnated worlds and gear is the only thing that counts.. this is a trend of modern MMOS.. they are built around mouse wheels that you as a player are expected to run in... Because gear/items are the only things you can effect. You cant change the political lanscape you cant crush others, you cant effect anything. The only thing you can change is your characters stats after you put the next piece of your item set on him..
MMOS were once filled with possibilites and diverstity.. open worlds were you as a player crafted your own path "EvE" is a good example of this. They have degraded to hyped up mouse wheels were you run the same things over and over for Items. The complex social structures of games like linage2, EvE online and UO and other pree WoW games are a thing of the past.. And that is what drew me into the genre in the first place. The communites, the politics and mass psycolagy of inhabiting the same game world and trying to coexist. Most of these concept are ailen to the modern MMOer who grew up with games like WoW and its clones... They have never tried games like this and they dont know what they missed.. Im not talking about the grind now it was awfull, but the Experince and the feeling of belonging to a WORLD.. were your choise of selling weapons to one fraction could lead to the destruction of the other.
Rant over.. we will never agree.. But my point is I dont care for the game design behind modern MMOs, and if they keep Failing we will hopfully someday get back to our ROOTS... And get a game that again actually let you as a player make changes and have Freedom...
Freedom, Comunities, and open worlds are gone, Replaced by mediocracy, Brainless mouse wheels and Static environments I hope you theampark goers are happy..
Freedom, Comunities, and open worlds are gone, Replaced by mediocracy, Brainless mouse wheels and Static environments I hope you theampark goers are happy..
Well we are happy cause we are the majority in the market that is willing to paying for this.
What's stopping you from supporting / making your own?
Minecraft proves that if you put your mind to it, you don't have to have millions to make a sandbox game.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
So true! People flock to whatever is popular, not to mention there has been no good mmos out there since WoW. This is just a desperation thing to keep their mmo addiction satisfied until the next best thing arrives. Innovation and quality be damned!
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Since the Video Game industry is apart of the entertainment industry, there is one rule and one rule only.
Go where the money is.
Simple as that, end of story. People are going to reminisce in the "good ol' hot dog days", but in reality they are stuck because only a SMALL majority want hot dogs. You are asking investors to take an unnecessary risk and throw their money back at something. This is risky buisness, and we all know that risky buisness doesn't fly unless there is true potential in something.
MMORPGs will allways stay the same unless a developer can prove otherwise, until then all major budget MMOs will be directed toward what HAS WORKED.
Haters gonna hate, but it is true and you can make all the analogies you want, people follow the money.
There is nothing to argue about - lately seen a few days in the media, a documention about our economy:
RIDICULOUS!
Can you imagine that ALMOST EVERYTHING is made/created not to last, no, to break? Our economy only WORKS if something breaks and you have to get a new one. Is it the date on our food - the fridge - BEST EXAMPLE your printer - even the cheap clothing from h&m which rips of literally after half a year - and even hardware.
With the exception that SWToR does not earn anything from updating for free. They do not sell a full package of content, yes, because they want to bind customers, they want to bind you for their games. So does every marketing-wh*re these days: "Bind customers or die."
So the conclusion is: A perfect product, which would last forever is DAMAGING our economy. And this mindset is SICK and has to STOP!
Worldwide!
It works for Eve. We should implement it everywhere.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What you are doing is taking opinion and suggesting it is more than just an opinion. The truth is that some people like chocolate and some like vanilla. What you are saying is that vanilla is bad as a fact.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Spot on! LOL close this thread. A picture is indeed worth a 1000 words and this really shows exactly what happens with every MMO release by some minority that is never happy to see that others are having fun on something they dont like.
If I had to describe MMORPG.com in one picture it would probably be that actually.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
Bah. I still have faith that this game will fail. Here is why:
a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds? No one.
b) self resurrection (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)
c) kill 10 jawas.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.
But if we all were atheletes and porn stars, who would take care of all the other stuff?
Cash Rules Everything Around Me.. True, but despite what they teach us at a young age, we can't all be millionaires. The system isn't built that way..
The people at the top of these corps, the decision makers, have no invested emotion or interest in the product themselves rather than how much can they earn from them.. Since they have little or no experience in the things they are standing to "represent" they take the easy way out and just "look at what made the next man money"..
That basically takes little effort, little understanding and more of "just do what they did".. Before WoW showed us that MMO's COULD make lots of money, these CEO's and VP's wanted nothing to do with them.. Hell i'm sure some of them even predicted them to just die off eventually..
Hell, I still remember EA declaring that they would never make a video game based on MMA.. EVER... Well, THQ proved that an MMA game could make money and behold "EA SPORTS MMA"..
^ This. Reading really isn't a strong suit of a lot of the current generation of gamers, so it appears by seeing a lot of the jiberish that has preceeded me.
I commend the OP for stating what needs to be said.
Going to have to disagree with you on that point. Every few years someone will take that "plunge" and that's how new ideas catch on and the whole cycle starts over. It happens in every industry and with every product. So don't lose faith in that regard.
As for the overall point of the thread, i'm not sure that even a failed SWTOR would be a real benefit to the genre. If that happened it might just mean investors wouldn't spend as much on any MMO's in the future, be they themeparks or sandboxes.
Some people prefer the reset button the console provided. Some people prefer the challenge. Sadly, I'm guessing most people fall under pressing reset.
Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Of course, what was i thinking? Maybe they should make a game that can just play itself so that you never have to even consider losing. I remember a time when it was possible to lose video games. These days might as well just watch a damn movie as opposed to playing 90% of what is released.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.
Still have my fingers crossed that this "MMO" will fail. I could have picked any MMO since WoW to fail but I picked this one because of the IP and the amount of money they spent on it.
Seriously. The OP has blinders on, thats all. He is seeing this game from a single persective, the MMO mechanics side. He sees nothing more than that, and as a result, he believes that is all there is to SWTOR. It simply is not reality though, short sited and narrowed vision. And of course when you formulate an argument based off such limited insite, you get this stuff he posted here.
This game is only bad for the genre if his reality was all SWTOR brought to the genre. You can argue each individual mechanical aspect of the games functionality all you want, that isnt what SWTOR brings to the genre, that just happens to be all the OP can see of it. I'm sorry for his lack of vision, honestly I am.
EDIT: Oh and to the dude above me, SWTOR is an MMORPG game, not an MMO. And thank you for so eliquently proving my point.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
SWTOR is a Massively Multiplayer Online game. As it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It is both. Just like the NFL is the Natitonal Football league, as much as it is a Football League.
Once again...exactly. Not seeing my point there is EXACTLY what I was saying. Thank you again.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on. But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before. Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created. Now everything is a copy of what was successful. Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.
It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.
Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.
TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.
In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.
There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.
Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.
Not exactly, but sort of...maybe. We seem to agree that the industry isn't doomed and that the sky isn't falling.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Variations can be of different magnitude. The current variation among the AAA mmorpgs is very small if compare to other genres such as Single Player RPGs and Adventure games. We still have still TSW, Archage and GW2 that may offer variation of a significantly higher magnitude, but if they all fail, we will be reaching a dark age of very narrow variation.
To the OP one of the best reads I have had In a while.. you are spot on my friend.. sadly the Fan Brigade will be out with Pitchforks and Bonfires...
And on a side note... I dont hate on SW:TOR because its new... I Object to it for other reasons... just like the OP
1: I belive the Genre has stagnated.. WoW is to blame for this, evry developer thinks, lets just make it somewhat like WoW and people will play, I think this assumption is wrong... And many failed copy cat games that have come out in the last years strenghtens my argument... people arnt looking to play another WoW clone..
2: When MMOs started they had a freedom feel to them, you were given tools, But the comunities of a server controled the politics.. With harsh deathpenelties.. deleveling, droped items, destroyed items, The worlds were cutthroat and dangrous. For me that was exiting.. I fondly remeber battles my Clan had when we played Linage2.. I remeber being chased and hunted, and knowing if my attackers got hold of me I might drop my gear and get deleveld.. it was thrilling.. You do not get this in modern theampark MMOS.. the feeling of Real dangour... Also in a place where you could get punished for your actions people setup rules, and your learn to socialize and make friends. In modern themparks you dont have this. Point is Freedom is gone, replaced by rails and fun-rides, MMOs are not thrilling or challeging anymore, they are a pass time hobby you can do in your off hours... you need zero comitment...
3: Stagnated worlds and gear is the only thing that counts.. this is a trend of modern MMOS.. they are built around mouse wheels that you as a player are expected to run in... Because gear/items are the only things you can effect. You cant change the political lanscape you cant crush others, you cant effect anything. The only thing you can change is your characters stats after you put the next piece of your item set on him..
MMOS were once filled with possibilites and diverstity.. open worlds were you as a player crafted your own path "EvE" is a good example of this. They have degraded to hyped up mouse wheels were you run the same things over and over for Items. The complex social structures of games like linage2, EvE online and UO and other pree WoW games are a thing of the past.. And that is what drew me into the genre in the first place. The communites, the politics and mass psycolagy of inhabiting the same game world and trying to coexist. Most of these concept are ailen to the modern MMOer who grew up with games like WoW and its clones... They have never tried games like this and they dont know what they missed.. Im not talking about the grind now it was awfull, but the Experince and the feeling of belonging to a WORLD.. were your choise of selling weapons to one fraction could lead to the destruction of the other.
Rant over.. we will never agree.. But my point is I dont care for the game design behind modern MMOs, and if they keep Failing we will hopfully someday get back to our ROOTS... And get a game that again actually let you as a player make changes and have Freedom...
Freedom, Comunities, and open worlds are gone, Replaced by mediocracy, Brainless mouse wheels and Static environments I hope you theampark goers are happy..
Well we are happy cause we are the majority in the market that is willing to paying for this.
What's stopping you from supporting / making your own?
Minecraft proves that if you put your mind to it, you don't have to have millions to make a sandbox game.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.