Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
I think the real question is Why do you need to find more things about swtor to hate on it? Or is hating on swtor the only big thing you have going on in your life?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
general MMOers is a smaller group but they are also the group who pays and plays for years.. I don't agree when you say if you advertise to the masses you aren't going to convince them to play. It does exactly that, thats what marketing is all about thats why companies pay big bucks for this stuff, thats why sites like this one stay afloat and sites like IGN and gamespot. Advertising is what gets the idea of a game in peoples heads which in turns increases interest which in turns makes sales. All you need to sell something is good advertising. But having a famous IP is just the icing on the cake.
WOW is a whole other monster though because of the time it came out specifically. MMOs were a very small community back then and it was the first real themepark made for the masses.
Except if that was true, anything you threw money at as far as advertising would be a success. But it doesn't work that way.
Yes, marketing is about making something seem not only palatable but also something you just "have to have" or "have to be a part of".
But it's a two way street. People seeing that advertising have to not only be willing to be swayed but have to be the correct demographic that would consider taking part in that product.
So if you were to throw, say, WoW advertising dollars at Dark Fall you might get a few more people willing to try it out. But in no way, shape or form is Dark Fall going to start heading towards millions of players.
There are niche products in all genres as well as break out products that get the masses participating. ADvertise as much as you want you are not going to get the masses liking niche products. You might get some who are genuinely curious but Advertising can only do so much.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Comparing the initial sales to anything else in the MMO industry they surpased the norm by about a million sales. Look at the sales numbers for AOC, WAR and STO, large IP products mind you, and you'll see just how successful TOR was.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
only on MMORPG.com and with the "super SWTOR hater club" would 2 million copies sold NOT be a successful launch.
2 million copies of the game sold and 2 million active subscriptions (after the 30 days free) are two different things. Selling 2 million copies and only ending up with a mil or so subs does not make for a successful game. The launch was good, one of the best i took part in. But the game overall, will not keep those 2 mil people. And you can see all the TOR lovers keep using this as an example why their game is so awesome because they dont have anything else to use And within a month or 2, they wont have that 1.7 mil subs either.
2 million copies sold is successful. if they retain 1 million it would be the second highest populated MMO in the west. I know those lacking common sense think a new MMO should get 10 million boxes sold and retain ALL 10 million of those subscribers = FAILURE.
but thats not how this genre works.
50% lose is no successful game. It will be the largest lose in the quickest time of any mmo ever that i can remember. It shows how bad this game is. The 1.7 million subs BW/EA was so proud of also included the free 30 days in it. So once those run out........
And its funny you mention genre, its called an industry not genre Genre would be like sci-fi, fantasy, etc. A style, form, etc. And on that subject, this game lacks everything to be an epic mmorpg. This game is like playing KOTOR3 on your pc and paying 15 a month for it. How long do you think these people will continue to pay that much money for a console rpg? When real mmorpgs are coming out very soon
general MMOers is a smaller group but they are also the group who pays and plays for years.. I don't agree when you say if you advertise to the masses you aren't going to convince them to play. It does exactly that, thats what marketing is all about thats why companies pay big bucks for this stuff, thats why sites like this one stay afloat and sites like IGN and gamespot. Advertising is what gets the idea of a game in peoples heads which in turns increases interest which in turns makes sales. All you need to sell something is good advertising. But having a famous IP is just the icing on the cake.
WOW is a whole other monster though because of the time it came out specifically. MMOs were a very small community back then and it was the first real themepark made for the masses.
Except if that was true, anything you threw money at as far as advertising would be a success. But it doesn't work that way.
Yes, marketing is about making something seem not only palatable but also something you just "have to have" or "have to be a part of".
But it's a two way street. People seeing that advertising have to not only be willing to be swayed but have to be the correct demographic that would consider taking part in that product.
So if you were to throw, say, WoW advertising dollars at Dark Fall you might get a few more people willing to try it out. But in no way, shape or form is Dark Fall going to start heading towards millions of players.
There are niche products in all genres as well as break out products that get the masses participating. ADvertise as much as you want you are not going to get the masses liking niche products. You might get some who are genuinely curious but Advertising can only do so much.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
2 million copies of the game sold and 2 million active subscriptions (after the 30 days free) are two different things. Selling 2 million copies and only ending up with a mil or so subs does not make for a successful game. The launch was good, one of the best i took part in. But the game overall, will not keep those 2 mil people. And you can see all the TOR lovers keep using this as an example why their game is so awesome because they dont have anything else to use And within a month or 2, they wont have that 1.7 mil subs either.
2 million copies sold is successful. if they retain 1 million it would be the second highest populated MMO in the west. I know those lacking common sense think a new MMO should get 10 million boxes sold and retain ALL 10 million of those subscribers = FAILURE.
but thats not how this genre works.
so in your example warhammer online was a very successfull game since it sold plenty of copies to make up for what it cost to make.
Stating the success of an MMO based solely on box sales is pretty much as worthless as using XFire stats to rate overall populations.
It depends 100% on the business model. Guild Wars is 100% box sales and xpack game. No subs and they are wildly successful.
Warhammer Online could be very successful based on box sales alone or it could be barely profitable. It depends on what they based the budget on.
Some companies might need higher retention rates than others. If SWTOR expects to make dev costs back in X time and beat that goal, then yes, they are successful.
On the flip side, 2mm copies sold without a high enough retention rate may not be successful for SWTOR. You just have to wait for a press release or have inside knowledge.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
I actually would temper that.
"yes" the game will lose subs because people who wanted something different are just not going to stick around. But those people who are casual "non-gamers" who just like playing games here won't necessarily be so quick to unsubscribe. And there are mmo players who are actually enjoying the game for what it is.
I would be surprised if the game grew to be a juggernaut.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
I actually would temper that.
"yes" the game will lose subs because people who wanted something different are just not going to stick around. But those people who are casual "non-gamers" who just like playing games here won't necessarily be so quick to unsubscribe. And there are mmo players who are actually enjoying the game for what it is.
I would be surprised if the game grew to be a juggernaut.
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
Guild Wars 2 is Buy to Play. Like Guild Wars 1 players they will buy it and then continue to sub to another game.
Guild Wars 2 will only be competition to Guild Wars 1, and very little competition to anyone else. Even though it might sell more boxes than every other game.
Star Wars doesn't have much to worry about when it comes to GW2 other than maybe people not subscribing because they think The Old Republic is unplayable after playing GW2. Which I doubt will be the case.
When GW2 releases The Old Republic will have had many patches and changes, and it will probably be considered a great game.
I happen to think this same way agout b2p and p2p. But..... we have to take into consideration, depending on GW2 success things can get ugly for subscription based games. It is a possibility and a reality. If GW2 becomes the most successful mmorpg second to WoW (even if it becomes more popular that WoW) then people might start to wonder why are they wasting money on subscription based games when GW2 is the best thing ever happened with no monthly fee?
Things can happen and we have to see all the possibilities. If a B2P mmo becomes the next big thing, subscriptions can have a sad future (WoW included).
I clicked on this thread expecting an enlightned, insightful "bigger question"...you know, something really inspired...and instead I got the same stupid argument.
2 million copies of the game sold and 2 million active subscriptions (after the 30 days free) are two different things. Selling 2 million copies and only ending up with a mil or so subs does not make for a successful game. The launch was good, one of the best i took part in. But the game overall, will not keep those 2 mil people. And you can see all the TOR lovers keep using this as an example why their game is so awesome because they dont have anything else to use And within a month or 2, they wont have that 1.7 mil subs either.
2 million copies sold is successful. if they retain 1 million it would be the second highest populated MMO in the west. I know those lacking common sense think a new MMO should get 10 million boxes sold and retain ALL 10 million of those subscribers = FAILURE.
but thats not how this genre works.
so in your example warhammer online was a very successfull game since it sold plenty of copies to make up for what it cost to make.
Stating the success of an MMO based solely on box sales is pretty much as worthless as using XFire stats to rate overall populations.
SWG sold 1 mil copies by 2005, that was huge for back in those days, with the exception of WOW but they didnt hit their 10mil mark until 2011. WAR only sold about 1.5 mil copies roughly. EQ sold 2.5 mil copies since launch including expansions and only had about 450k subs. Rift even sold 1 mil copies eventualy. But most these games have small player bases now or are gone. As stated above sopies mean nothing, subs are the real money makers.
Those numbers above are just a quick look on google*
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
What I would love to know is the reason for why they cancel. Because right now there are three things that seem to be the main driving force for those disenfranchised at this time:
1. endgame
2. PvP
3.faction/server population issues
Those three things are becoming more and more prevalent. It will be interesting to see how those are handled. I would especially love to see how many related it to number three because I personally believe this is a much bigger issue and a growing one that some refuse to acknowledge.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
What I would love to know is the reason for why they cancel. Because right now there are three things that seem to be the main driving force for those disenfranchised at this time:
1. endgame
2. PvP
3.faction/server population issues
Those three things are becoming more and more prevalent. It will be interesting to see how those are handled. I would especially love to see how many related it to number three because I personally believe this is a much bigger issue and a growing one that some refuse to acknowledge.
to me the main issue was the very stale and shallow classes/ horribly generic talent trees. Just this kept me from even getting to level 50. Oh and the heavily heavily instanced/phased zones
with the MMO market as large as it is today and with how long its been since the last AAA title and not to mention the super team of bioware + star wars I can't see how anyone would think this game wouldn't sell well off the get go.. does it make it a good game? or a rousing success? i don't think so if it can maintain 1 mill+ subs over the course of a year i'd say its a sure fire hit but i highly doubt it will keep anywhere close to that in a years time.
You don't think The Old Republic will keep close to 1 million subscribers? I can't even begin to imagine how you came to that conclusion.
I predict that after a year The Old Republic will have 1million to 2million active subscribers, easy.
I don't know how people are preicting lower than 1million? Let alone you predicting "anywhere close" to 1million.
With patches, more advertising, free trials and cheaper boxes this game will continue to thrieve for the next year atleast easily.
Anything could happen..but I see this as a very probable future for SWTOR as well. Especially as they do additional fixes...patches..polish and add more content...making it attractive to more people and hopefully drawing back some disgruntled defectors.lol.
and by then several new AAA mmo's will be released or just about to be released... like wow before it SWTOR came out at a prestine time when no other MMOs had been released recently. Only Rift was released in the same year and that was way back in March. Not to mention it was released right near christmas. You really think both these things are coincidence? I bet you the developers would of prefered to polish the game and work on a summer 2012 release but with everything in the works for then I'm sure the corporate guys pushed for the christmas 2011 release.. it's all about the money..
No doubt that is why they released...and yes..rushed the game for a December release. I still think it was fairly smooth from my experiences (compared to many other mmo releases except RIFT). I also realize its bugs and failures but enjoy the game none-the -less. There is definitely competition heading our way (and will be sampling those as well..Wildstar oddly intrigues me tho I usually dislike the degree of stylization it seems to incorporate..and Archage if we ever see that in the west)....but I still think SWTOR can pull-off a great playerbase as they continue to refine their rushed product. I really can't blame bioware too much and hatelessly blame EA mostly for the too-early release. I also blame the many fans screaming for a release date so they could get their grubby mitts on a copy...myself included..lol.
What I would love to know is the reason for why they cancel. Because right now there are three things that seem to be the main driving force for those disenfranchised at this time:
1. endgame
2. PvP
3.faction/server population issues
Those three things are becoming more and more prevalent. It will be interesting to see how those are handled. I would especially love to see how many related it to number three because I personally believe this is a much bigger issue and a growing one that some refuse to acknowledge.
1. and 3. were the main reasons my roommate stopped playing and gave me his copy to play for the rest of his free month. He played through 2-3 characters to 50(or at least one of them) in a couple weeks. Joined a guild. The guild feel apart from people quitting the game. He's not a PVPer.
After that there is absolutely nothing to do in the game.
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
2 million is awesome for just the US/EU in such a short amount of time. If it grows it will be by word of mouth and advertisemtns, just as WOW did.
Blizzard clearly has a lot of fans that want finished products before leaving WOW. They also made a bold move and offered D3 free with a years subscription.
If it grows it will be by word of mouth and advertisemtns, just as WOW did.
Since the 1.7 million number given out by EA includes new people who are playing the game in their first month it doesn't look like the game is selling very well in its second month.
If there are 1 million paying subcribers that leaves 700k new players right now.
If there are 1.5 million paying subscribers that leaves only 200k new players right now.
If it grows it will be by word of mouth and advertisemtns, just as WOW did.
Since the 1.7 million number given out by EA includes new people who are playing the game in their first month it doesn't look like the game is selling very well in its second month.
If there are 1 million paying subcribers that leaves 700k new players right now.
If there are 1.5 million paying subscribers that leaves only 200k new players right now.
most people who play MMOs these days will buy the game straight up.. unlike with wow the genre was just growing. By now its mostly established and most people with the greatest interest have bought the game by now.
I would have to say that 2 million boxes sold is a failure . A movie who does not get back the proceeds from the cost of production is consider a failure, and so is SwtoR. They missed the cost of production on Swtor by over 60 million dollars....
I don't know what production cost you're taking into account, but so far nothing official is known, only analists' guesses which ironically enough range from 80 million dollars to 500 million dollars - you'd think that analists might be closer to eachother's estimations. Using normal brains and common sense though, it'd be utter foolishness to believe that TOR's dev budget would be multiple times that of the 40-60 million dollar budgets of other AAA MMO's.
Shrug. It's good that you said it's your opinion because you're simply just guessing here, and wildly at that. Did you know that GW2 has enough VO to fill 60 full feature films? And that TSW is fully voiced as well? If we're going to use your calculations, then their costs must be enormous too, easily 100-200 million dollars too, bc of VO and studio usage alone!
Well, if I'd think that way, that is. My guess is that the cost of it isn't negligible but certainly not the humongous sum that people make of it. Then again, since we don't know the official amount, it's all just guesswork, where in my guess I just try to use common sense and normal cost proportions as baseline.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
Comments
I think the real question is Why do you need to find more things about swtor to hate on it? Or is hating on swtor the only big thing you have going on in your life?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Except if that was true, anything you threw money at as far as advertising would be a success. But it doesn't work that way.
Yes, marketing is about making something seem not only palatable but also something you just "have to have" or "have to be a part of".
But it's a two way street. People seeing that advertising have to not only be willing to be swayed but have to be the correct demographic that would consider taking part in that product.
So if you were to throw, say, WoW advertising dollars at Dark Fall you might get a few more people willing to try it out. But in no way, shape or form is Dark Fall going to start heading towards millions of players.
There are niche products in all genres as well as break out products that get the masses participating. ADvertise as much as you want you are not going to get the masses liking niche products. You might get some who are genuinely curious but Advertising can only do so much.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Comparing the initial sales to anything else in the MMO industry they surpased the norm by about a million sales. Look at the sales numbers for AOC, WAR and STO, large IP products mind you, and you'll see just how successful TOR was.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
50% lose is no successful game. It will be the largest lose in the quickest time of any mmo ever that i can remember. It shows how bad this game is. The 1.7 million subs BW/EA was so proud of also included the free 30 days in it. So once those run out........
And its funny you mention genre, its called an industry not genre
Genre would be like sci-fi, fantasy, etc. A style, form, etc. And on that subject, this game lacks everything to be an epic mmorpg. This game is like playing KOTOR3 on your pc and paying 15 a month for it. How long do you think these people will continue to pay that much money for a console rpg? When real mmorpgs are coming out very soon 
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Stating the success of an MMO based solely on box sales is pretty much as worthless as using XFire stats to rate overall populations.
It depends 100% on the business model. Guild Wars is 100% box sales and xpack game. No subs and they are wildly successful.
Warhammer Online could be very successful based on box sales alone or it could be barely profitable. It depends on what they based the budget on.
Some companies might need higher retention rates than others. If SWTOR expects to make dev costs back in X time and beat that goal, then yes, they are successful.
On the flip side, 2mm copies sold without a high enough retention rate may not be successful for SWTOR. You just have to wait for a press release or have inside knowledge.
I actually would temper that.
"yes" the game will lose subs because people who wanted something different are just not going to stick around. But those people who are casual "non-gamers" who just like playing games here won't necessarily be so quick to unsubscribe. And there are mmo players who are actually enjoying the game for what it is.
I would be surprised if the game grew to be a juggernaut.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I happen to think this same way agout b2p and p2p. But..... we have to take into consideration, depending on GW2 success things can get ugly for subscription based games. It is a possibility and a reality. If GW2 becomes the most successful mmorpg second to WoW (even if it becomes more popular that WoW) then people might start to wonder why are they wasting money on subscription based games when GW2 is the best thing ever happened with no monthly fee?
Things can happen and we have to see all the possibilities. If a B2P mmo becomes the next big thing, subscriptions can have a sad future (WoW included).
I clicked on this thread expecting an enlightned, insightful "bigger question"...you know, something really inspired...and instead I got the same stupid argument.
SWG sold 1 mil copies by 2005, that was huge for back in those days, with the exception of WOW but they didnt hit their 10mil mark until 2011. WAR only sold about 1.5 mil copies roughly. EQ sold 2.5 mil copies since launch including expansions and only had about 450k subs. Rift even sold 1 mil copies eventualy. But most these games have small player bases now or are gone. As stated above sopies mean nothing, subs are the real money makers.
Those numbers above are just a quick look on google*
What I would love to know is the reason for why they cancel. Because right now there are three things that seem to be the main driving force for those disenfranchised at this time:
1. endgame
2. PvP
3.faction/server population issues
Those three things are becoming more and more prevalent. It will be interesting to see how those are handled. I would especially love to see how many related it to number three because I personally believe this is a much bigger issue and a growing one that some refuse to acknowledge.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
to me the main issue was the very stale and shallow classes/ horribly generic talent trees. Just this kept me from even getting to level 50. Oh and the heavily heavily instanced/phased zones
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
No doubt that is why they released...and yes..rushed the game for a December release. I still think it was fairly smooth from my experiences (compared to many other mmo releases except RIFT). I also realize its bugs and failures but enjoy the game none-the -less. There is definitely competition heading our way (and will be sampling those as well..Wildstar oddly intrigues me tho I usually dislike the degree of stylization it seems to incorporate..and Archage if we ever see that in the west)....but I still think SWTOR can pull-off a great playerbase as they continue to refine their rushed product. I really can't blame bioware too much and hatelessly blame EA mostly for the too-early release. I also blame the many fans screaming for a release date so they could get their grubby mitts on a copy...myself included..lol.
1. and 3. were the main reasons my roommate stopped playing and gave me his copy to play for the rest of his free month. He played through 2-3 characters to 50(or at least one of them) in a couple weeks. Joined a guild. The guild feel apart from people quitting the game. He's not a PVPer.
After that there is absolutely nothing to do in the game.
in NA or EU? because they are closing Asian servers, theres a post here somewhere with the news link
2 million is awesome for just the US/EU in such a short amount of time. If it grows it will be by word of mouth and advertisemtns, just as WOW did.
Blizzard clearly has a lot of fans that want finished products before leaving WOW. They also made a bold move and offered D3 free with a years subscription.
Since the 1.7 million number given out by EA includes new people who are playing the game in their first month it doesn't look like the game is selling very well in its second month.
If there are 1 million paying subcribers that leaves 700k new players right now.
If there are 1.5 million paying subscribers that leaves only 200k new players right now.
you can see here whether you believe these charts or not but box sales aren't exatly booming http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/USA/
most people who play MMOs these days will buy the game straight up.. unlike with wow the genre was just growing. By now its mostly established and most people with the greatest interest have bought the game by now.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I don't know what production cost you're taking into account, but so far nothing official is known, only analists' guesses which ironically enough range from 80 million dollars to 500 million dollars - you'd think that analists might be closer to eachother's estimations. Using normal brains and common sense though, it'd be utter foolishness to believe that TOR's dev budget would be multiple times that of the 40-60 million dollar budgets of other AAA MMO's.
Well, if I'd think that way, that is. My guess is that the cost of it isn't negligible but certainly not the humongous sum that people make of it. Then again, since we don't know the official amount, it's all just guesswork, where in my guess I just try to use common sense and normal cost proportions as baseline."lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post