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GW2 pvp, Lack of progression concerns me.
Ishan-shade
Member Posts: 23
Well ill be honest I havent really looked too deeply into this game so I may very well be missing something.
From what I read though when playing battlegrounds (or whatever gw2 happens to call them) all players have the same access to the exact same gear, skills etc. This to me is kind of concerning. I pretty much strictly PvP in mmo's. Pretty much the only reason I play is that I like to spend time working on my char so that I can go pvp. If theres no incentive to get gear and improve my character I find it hard to believe it will keep me intereseted in the long term.
I realize there will be world pvp and such, but lets face it an a modern day mmo after the initial leveling phase the bulk of your time pvping is in battlegrounds.
I also realize that with experience I will get better and have a competitive edge of players in that sense, I just worry there wont be much incentive or ways to work on your character to gain a bit of an advantage.
To me thats just the way it should go, the people that work hard for the gear deserve the advantage it gives.
I myself made the grind to Warlord back in Vanilla WoW and man it was fun and really added another element meeting up with very powerfull players. Im now more of a casual gamer, play a few hours when I can squeeze it in (family, life, work, you know) but I still feeel the same way. Its fun for me to face someone more experienced with better gear, it makes me better and gives me something to work towards.
Honestly I think thats what plagues alot of mmo's people are such whiners when it comes to balance. Games need a sense of randomness and hell even a bit of unfairness at times.
Also I think people are fooling themselves if they dont think that 95% of the players will be wearing the EXACT same gear and skills. People always fall into that cookie cutter mentality. Is this games battlegrounds seriously going to be filled with classes all wearing identical gear?
Comments
why would you earn pvp gear if you were stuck wearing the same gear?
same exact gear?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG50U6XtCeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhfBVRtZJc
same class, same gender, same race, same game mode.
In WvW, outgearing an opponent will be possible, especially if you're higher level. In Structured PvP (arenas) however, all gear is created equal. This system will inherently weed out the good PvPers from the bads...as gear will no longer be a factor. And if we're being honest, I doubt gear will be a huge advantage even in WvW. At the end of the day, who wants to grind for ages just to be competative in PvP? In GW2, you can just jump in and let your skill do the talking.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
But see that's why you can't use all skills at once, so you'll never know what build you actually fighting even if you know what weapon skills you have.
Two Greatsword players fighting each other can still surprise one another because you can only use 10 skills I think.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
GW2 is trying to make it's instanced PvP (structured PvP as Anet calls it) as skill-based as possible so characters which fight there are max level, have max level gear and have all skills and traits unlocked. Anet believes skill should be the factor, not time spent. Kinda like how FPS games handle it. The rewards are cosmetic, different items skins, titles etc but the most important reward are fun and challenge.
In WvWvW there is gear and skill/trait progression however (but not really any level progression, so that you can jump in at level 1 and not be one-shotted).
Well to answer your question I guess I want to grind for gear to be competative in PvP. I dont pve, too me thats my progession, attaining new gear, skills to make me a better pvper. So the only poin to pvp in gw2 is for some title and or ranking or something? Dont get me wrong those are cool bonuses I guess, but hell I want to pvp and get better gear!
Is there even a reason for me to lvl lol?
Thats what I was trying to elude to though. People always use the same cookie cutter crap. so yes they could potentially surprise one another. Sadly though its very safe to say 95% of people will be using the same stuff you are.
The big form of "progression" in GW2 instanced PvP is going to be the eSport aspect of it, not the gear.
Server rankings, country rankings, world rankings, tournaments, leagues, ladders...
You'll have to ask yourself if the motivation to win is to get more loot or because winning is fun and moving up the ladder/ranks is fun.
they have already said that with the bonuses you get at max level you will be able to defeat a lower level player. so yeah you can rush to 80 and pwn noobs for a while. but eventually people will catch up and a fight will rely on your skill as a player.
I know this scares the hell out of some "PVP pros" that are use to being able to faceroll over "noobs" in lesser gear but they will have to get over that idea gear is the most important factor in a PVP fight.
So, hypothetically, if you were to grind your little heart out, when would you be statisfied that the gear you have is what you are looking for ? When you come to that answer, then you will understand the starting and ending point of GW2 PvP.
BALANCE/COMPETITIVE > YOUR WISHES OF GEAR PROGRESSION
Well, in this game...there won't be some arbitrary set of stats determing your success or failure in PvP. It'll be entirely down to your skill and experience. I'm also an avid PvPer and I love it. You'll still have progression, of course, but the progression will be down to you learning from your mistakes and becoming more accustomed to playing your toon. I'm being honest man, if you're into PvP as much as you say you are...you can't go wrong with this one.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Structured PvP is skill based not gear based, there is also a ranking system in place for the structured team based PvP, though I'm unsure whether we get ranking in WvWvW. Personally I prefer this skill based PvP over the gear grinding that other MMO's use. I'm also led to believe you can transmute gear taking stats from a piece of gear onto another to customise yourself, If I'm wrong on that then I'm sure I will be corrected.
Edit:- I'm also sure you get a statue of your character in the city if your good enough for the week/day/month. Pretty certain I read that somewhere.
I'm a bit lost shall we result to vide evidence maybe?
It's possible but once throwing out 95% cred can be lost to the whole statement.
Because funny enough one skill could possibly makse a difference and how you use the build.
You can be predictable or you could use shield bash,three hit attack,stomp, savage leap, then kick, and have an ele cross proffesion and switch to dual axe an then use whirlwind. Maybe that's typical or maybe not, least that's the skills I used at the convention as a warrior. Was fun as well but there are counters to this an what not. Maybe 95% of warriors will use that combination only a daily basis every time they are in PVP, but since I died even with that combination mentality I ended up changing out my player skills and support and what not get some range attack in there.
Actually the way their PVP is set up I wouldn't first think WoW or similar MMOs, I'd think Gears of War as well, other esports and what not. I mean I'm saying at first.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I guess thats what it comes down to huh.
Believe me im not that guy out ganking lvl 10's with my lvl 80. I actually very much like a good fight. It just dosent feel like an mmo if everyone just chooses gear out of a screen. Thats why I play to get gear to pvp with.
I kind of want both gear and ranking progression. Meh maybe this one just isnt for me.
Meh starting to really hate the homoginization in mmo's its getting really pathetic.
What happened to playing it for the fun of it, server pride, and besides who really knows what they have for rewards. Progression, why, to be better then someone who has less time. Beat them with skill, and play the huge fights for fun. God if you played DAOC, I was out there when it first came out with DF diamond gear, could have got my Epic but was lazy and too into RvR. I had fun still and eventually got my Epic, but it didn t matter, if I had it or not, it was still fun.
In WvWvW at the end of the battle your "server" gets ranking and higher end servers fight higher rated servers =P
To quote Lock stock and Two Smoking Barrels (Watch it!!)
"
SOAP: Oh, you assume, do ya? What do they say about assumption being the brother of all fuck-ups?
TOM: It's the mother of fuck-ups, stupid!
SOAP: Well, excuse me, brother, mother or any other sucker, doesn't make any difference, they are still fucking guns, and they still fire fucking bullets!
"
Try not to assume anything with this one, it's going to be amazingly fun and with Arena.net normally being ahead of the curve this will be one hell of a game for PvP and PvE.. Stop thinking of this game as just another new mmo on rails...
All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!
Your making alot of assumptions yourself.
(And seen it!)
Not the game for you then im afraid. This isnt a gear grind at all and as such you should stick to one of the hundreds of other MMO's which cater to your vision of unfair PvP and Epeen stroking.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
You're sort of contradicting yourself. You say you want competitive gameplay, yet say you need gear progression. Gear progressions is the exact opposite of competitive, it allows you to steamroll anyone who is weaker than you. It doesn't matter how skilled they are, how well they know their class, and how much you suck comparatively, just have better gear and you win. That's not competition.
Competitive gameplay is a matter of skill. It's chess, its martial arts, most sports, etc. It's when people get together and are judged based on their skill. That is competition. What you are asking for isn't the option to be competitive, what you want is to grind to the point that you no longer have to be; to get to the point where everyone by default will lose because they do 1 damage and you do 1000.
Call it like it is.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I do not know why people are trying to argue here, Iron Shade this game may not be for you, if this is your concern, how ever you can duke it out in Tera
if that type of art/story/gameplay is your cup of tea.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
If you want PVP to mostly be a contest of, whoever has spent the most time grinding for levels and/or gear wins, then there are plenty of games that cater to you. Guild Wars 2 just isn't one of them. ArenaNet wants PVP results to depend mostly on what players do in PVP, not just on what level and gear they come in with. It was like that in GW1, too.
You must have missed the part where I said I no longer play that much and still enjoy facing competition with better gear / skill then myself. Competitive dosent have to be perfect, or 100% fair. Maybe in your mind.
Its okay though I expected these types of repsonses.
Says you. Not everyone plays the same way you do.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Wow you sure are taking this personally. So my opinion that every class using the exact same skills, gear is homoginizing? How is that not accurate?
Did I say the whole game was homoginized ... no. Calm down, im sorry I deeply offended you.