Guild Wars 2 enters the MOBA territory of logic, sharing that with it's original self, but compounding upon it with smarter refinements. Understand that Guild Wars 2 hasn't come out of the wood work at random, it is a the result of seven or more years of proven form and function from, you guessed it, Guild Wars 1. Heck, Guild Wars 2 even takes a stab at making it even more simplified and restricted, which I find is a better way to handle it. Instead of skills and abilities falling off monsters and crowded up the stores, skills are earned through use of a particular weapon and class.
This is where things become MOBA-like, as you will have only a handful of useable abilities at a given time, which put you into the role of a MOBA-Style character build. The huge difference of course is that your own personal appearance, comsmetics, and tastes make that character extremely unique visually. In MOBA, you will always face people who use the exact same character type as you, just look at DOTA, DOTA2, LOL, or any of those other games -- people will commonly face each other with many of the exact same skills in their hand.
The difference of course is how they've chosen to subtly structure their builds, with with minor tweaks in skill points and the distribution of focus to favor one set of abilities over another. People do this to make adjustments based on their play style and skill level. Two Warriors with the exact same ability at hand will do very different things based on what they know and how they've adjusted their traits. One may jump right in, slashing away with his/her distance-closing ability and built up fury bar -- the other may suddenly switch weapon sets, cripple the on-coming warrior and back off out of range pelting him/her with range attacks!
If you pay attention to the Guid Wars 2 User Interface and have watched some of the dozens upon dozens of hours of in-game footage from the Beta Weekend, you'll see that players also have access to a second skill bar on the right side of their HP bubble. The Left-Most bar are skills based on currently equiped weapon, off hand, and equipment sets. The Right-Most bar is customizable, giving access to 20+ abilities unlocked through Skill Points earned over time based on your class. You can place any of the abilities in given slots.
1 Slot = Healing Skill (Choose from 3 healing skills)
3 Slots = Utility Skills (Choose from 20 class-based skills, place in any order.)
1 Slot = Elite Skill (Choose from 3 elite skills.)
One warrior may have Endure Pain, a Stun-Breaking ability that gives immunity to damage for 5 Seconds unlocked, another may have Frenzy, a Stun-Breaking ability which gives Quickness (Fast ability recharge) and higher rate of Critical Damage for 6 seconds.
These are where players can create their own builds and make adjustments accordingly. Due to the limits of the slots, players are not allowed a whole lot of flexibility, but there is enough to fit a play style. Many unlockable skills are team-based, which means you may have several different kind of builds for different situations. These 'builds' become your armor in a way, and it's how you change them up and experiment with them which promotes to a game's lifespan. Inevitably, more skills will be released in the game's life span allowing for new and interesting builds to be created as the game grows.
When new abilities are released, it's a like a new in-flux of gear and equipment. Players will be equickly rushing to master them and create tactics and good builds, making adjustments to their old ones and create new plans for the team. This is where the game finds it's lifespan, and it's not at all an experiment because it worked in Guild Wars 1 -- this is just a better version of that same system.
Ultimately, if you didn't like the first Guild Wars and never played it's PVP, you really don't have much of an idea of what to expect in GW2. I recommend instead of hypothizing and throwing around percentages, you just pick up GW1 and play some PVP and see if it's for you.
Without PvP gear progression we wont have PvP heroes like Vurtne, who facerolled undergeared people most of the time. Like every R14 vid on Vanilla WoW.
Well ill be honest I havent really looked too deeply into this game so I may very well be missing something.
From what I read though when playing battlegrounds (or whatever gw2 happens to call them) all players have the same access to the exact same gear, skills etc. This to me is kind of concerning. I pretty much strictly PvP in mmo's. Pretty much the only reason I play is that I like to spend time working on my char so that I can go pvp. If theres no incentive to get gear and improve my character I find it hard to believe it will keep me intereseted in the long term.
I realize there will be world pvp and such, but lets face it an a modern day mmo after the initial leveling phase the bulk of your time pvping is in battlegrounds.
I also realize that with experience I will get better and have a competitive edge of players in that sense, I just worry there wont be much incentive or ways to work on your character to gain a bit of an advantage.
To me thats just the way it should go, the people that work hard for the gear deserve the advantage it gives.
I myself made the grind to Warlord back in Vanilla WoW and man it was fun and really added another element meeting up with very powerfull players. Im now more of a casual gamer, play a few hours when I can squeeze it in (family, life, work, you know) but I still feeel the same way. Its fun for me to face someone more experienced with better gear, it makes me better and gives me something to work towards.
Honestly I think thats what plagues alot of mmo's people are such whiners when it comes to balance. Games need a sense of randomness and hell even a bit of unfairness at times.
Also I think people are fooling themselves if they dont think that 95% of the players will be wearing the EXACT same gear and skills. People always fall into that cookie cutter mentality. Is this games battlegrounds seriously going to be filled with classes all wearing identical gear?
If it concerns you don't buy it and don't play it.
Has the OP ever played Street Fighter or Tekken for an extended period of time? Or any of the popular MOBAs or FPS titles? They too don't have gear progression yet they can have a ton of staying power for players that like competition based on skill.
What is even greater imo than the fact that there is no gear grind for pvp is the fact that stuns or incapacitates are totally minimized in this game. Gone are the days of stunlock 100-0 BS in other games.
If that type of competition isn't your thing, then well, this game isn't either. TBH, in a game like WoW, all the arena battles from basically 2000+ had the same gear. These people continue to play to climb the ladder for noteriety (and possibly the vanity mount).
I agree with the OP. MMO's to me are about progression and improving my character. I already have much better e-sport in my FPS games, why would I replace the skill based FPS e-sport with a tab-target MMO? If I want to show off my PVP skill I'm not going to be playing a tab-target game. I play tab-target games for things like progression and variety...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I agree with the OP. MMO's to me are about progression and improving my character. I already have much better e-sport in my FPS games, why would I replace the skill based FPS e-sport with a tab-target MMO? If I want to show off my PVP skill I'm not going to be playing a tab-target game. I play tab-target games for things like progression and variety...
variety? if you play MMOs for variety then why would you not play Guild Wars 2, as it by far offers the most options to take in leveling a character.
come at lv1 to W v W v W and level up gear up your character for 80 levels.That should be enough of grind if you so desire.
I do have to say the RvRvR aspect of GW2 seems to be the only real draw for me. The carebear leveling (no PVP allowed and not even competition for resource nodes) and the lack of progression overall (leveling and loot de-emphisized for example) make me wonder why I'm going to bother to play for very long?
I'm an avid PVPer but without any real progression why would I replace my FPSers, which provide a near perfect e-sport, with tab-target GW2? Maybe this game just isn't geared towards players like me? I like MMO's for the progression of my character. I find it fun to keep improving it...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
dont sweat it!arenanet wasnt number two behind wow (very close)for years by luck they were there because they made gw1 with almost no backing from ncsoft.they had to fight tooth an nail the whole way just to get ncsoft to accept gw1 .now with gw2 they have the full support of ncsoft so i dont sweat it!even if they charge me 9.99 a month i ll still play it cause i know what arenanet do and they do awsome stuff!pvp is awsome but they had lot of pve in gw1 true i wish they had made more random pve event but thats beside the point!if by progression you mean level then you ll probably be done leveling just a bit after start area!
grin!ya it will probably be quick!buy gw1 and try it you ll understand how it is!
PvP should be fought with equal gear imo, so skill and strategy determines the outcome. If I have to farm gear for endless hours to become competitive I won't even bother, I'll go play quake or starcraft for my competitive fix instead.
I've promised myself never to do boring stuff(geargrind, attunements, boring lvling etc)in order to have fun later on in MMO's ever again, GW2 is one of few games where it looks like I won't have to do boring stuff first in order to have fun later.
Well ill be honest I havent really looked too deeply into this game so I may very well be missing something.
From what I read though when playing battlegrounds (or whatever gw2 happens to call them) all players have the same access to the exact same gear, skills etc. This to me is kind of concerning. I pretty much strictly PvP in mmo's. Pretty much the only reason I play is that I like to spend time working on my char so that I can go pvp. If theres no incentive to get gear and improve my character I find it hard to believe it will keep me intereseted in the long term.
I realize there will be world pvp and such, but lets face it an a modern day mmo after the initial leveling phase the bulk of your time pvping is in battlegrounds.
I also realize that with experience I will get better and have a competitive edge of players in that sense, I just worry there wont be much incentive or ways to work on your character to gain a bit of an advantage.
To me thats just the way it should go, the people that work hard for the gear deserve the advantage it gives.
I myself made the grind to Warlord back in Vanilla WoW and man it was fun and really added another element meeting up with very powerfull players. Im now more of a casual gamer, play a few hours when I can squeeze it in (family, life, work, you know) but I still feeel the same way. Its fun for me to face someone more experienced with better gear, it makes me better and gives me something to work towards.
Honestly I think thats what plagues alot of mmo's people are such whiners when it comes to balance. Games need a sense of randomness and hell even a bit of unfairness at times.
Also I think people are fooling themselves if they dont think that 95% of the players will be wearing the EXACT same gear and skills. People always fall into that cookie cutter mentality. Is this games battlegrounds seriously going to be filled with classes all wearing identical gear?
A few things:
1.) I as well spent most my time pvping in MMO's. I for one LOVE the fact that it will be skill based, not gear based. The idea that people of equal level and skill cannot have a fair fight because of gear is something I think is really wrong. When I play, I prefer skill winning my fights.
2.) The thing with these kind of games is it isn't individual balance that is the issue, but rather team balance. How do mechanics work as a team? Indeed, you will have FOTM builds, but with the sheer depth of skills, it shouldn't be too hard to develop counters to them. All it takes is some players willing to do the legwork to figure it out.
3.) For me I never pvp'ed for better gear. It should give a slight advantage, but not really. In the WvWvW system, you will be competing for the bonuses your server gets, and hopefully a ton of good fights along the way. I'll take those good fights over lopsided ones every day, where the fight was a foregone conclusion because I had better gear. Such battles bore me.
Well ill be honest I havent really looked too deeply into this game so I may very well be missing something.
From what I read though when playing battlegrounds (or whatever gw2 happens to call them) all players have the same access to the exact same gear, skills etc. This to me is kind of concerning. I pretty much strictly PvP in mmo's. Pretty much the only reason I play is that I like to spend time working on my char so that I can go pvp. If theres no incentive to get gear and improve my character I find it hard to believe it will keep me intereseted in the long term.
I realize there will be world pvp and such, but lets face it an a modern day mmo after the initial leveling phase the bulk of your time pvping is in battlegrounds.
I also realize that with experience I will get better and have a competitive edge of players in that sense, I just worry there wont be much incentive or ways to work on your character to gain a bit of an advantage.
To me thats just the way it should go, the people that work hard for the gear deserve the advantage it gives.
I myself made the grind to Warlord back in Vanilla WoW and man it was fun and really added another element meeting up with very powerfull players. Im now more of a casual gamer, play a few hours when I can squeeze it in (family, life, work, you know) but I still feeel the same way. Its fun for me to face someone more experienced with better gear, it makes me better and gives me something to work towards.
Honestly I think thats what plagues alot of mmo's people are such whiners when it comes to balance. Games need a sense of randomness and hell even a bit of unfairness at times.
Also I think people are fooling themselves if they dont think that 95% of the players will be wearing the EXACT same gear and skills. People always fall into that cookie cutter mentality. Is this games battlegrounds seriously going to be filled with classes all wearing identical gear?
In WvW, outgearing an opponent will be possible, especially if you're higher level. In Structured PvP (arenas) however, all gear is created equal. This system will inherently weed out the good PvPers from the bads...as gear will no longer be a factor. And if we're being honest, I doubt gear will be a huge advantage even in WvW. At the end of the day, who wants to grind for ages just to be competative in PvP? In GW2, you can just jump in and let your skill do the talking.
Well to answer your question I guess I want to grind for gear to be competative in PvP. I dont pve, too me thats my progession, attaining new gear, skills to make me a better pvper. So the only poin to pvp in gw2 is for some title and or ranking or something? Dont get me wrong those are cool bonuses I guess, but hell I want to pvp and get better gear!
Is there even a reason for me to lvl lol?
WOw brainwashed the newcomers to the mmorpg industry. The rest of us are used to earning success through team work and skill. In some more elite pvp games, i.e., dark age of camelot, your skills increase in game as well based on points earned from pvp success.
come at lv1 to W v W v W and level up gear up your character for 80 levels.That should be enough of grind if you so desire.
I do have to say the RvRvR aspect of GW2 seems to be the only real draw for me. The carebear leveling (no PVP allowed and not even competition for resource nodes) and the lack of progression overall (leveling and loot de-emphisized for example) make me wonder why I'm going to bother to play for very long?
I'm an avid PVPer but without any real progression why would I replace my FPSers, which provide a near perfect e-sport, with tab-target GW2? Maybe this game just isn't geared towards players like me? I like MMO's for the progression of my character. I find it fun to keep improving it...
you should play those games that fun for you and make you happy.
come at lv1 to W v W v W and level up gear up your character for 80 levels.That should be enough of grind if you so desire.
I do have to say the RvRvR aspect of GW2 seems to be the only real draw for me. The carebear leveling (no PVP allowed and not even competition for resource nodes) and the lack of progression overall (leveling and loot de-emphisized for example) make me wonder why I'm going to bother to play for very long?
I'm an avid PVPer but without any real progression why would I replace my FPSers, which provide a near perfect e-sport, with tab-target GW2? Maybe this game just isn't geared towards players like me? I like MMO's for the progression of my character. I find it fun to keep improving it...
you should play those games that fun for you and make you happy.
Ha, of course. The thread is about for who this will be fun for. There are many of us who actually enjoy progressing a character and the thrill of loot. GW2 just might not be the game for those that like progression and loot...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
since when is pvp about getting better gear or skills or other shitty rewards everyone gets whtin a few weeks of it releasing and wearing the same or complain about not having the same in a pvp setting were egual chance is so importand so that Skill counts for who is better and not gear.
the OP aint a PvP'er in heart at all, hes a dressup gear grinder , a true pvp'er does not care if hes naket running around fighting other naket characers on some battlefield aslong it gives him/her the trill of the battle and hopefully the win score.
Rewards for pvp is compleet bullshit and made for one reason only, to keep people longer in the game, just happens to have (d)evolved into a seperated "playstyle" that leeches of the pure pvp style player.
I agree with the OP. MMO's to me are about progression and improving my character. I already have much better e-sport in my FPS games, why would I replace the skill based FPS e-sport with a tab-target MMO? If I want to show off my PVP skill I'm not going to be playing a tab-target game. I play tab-target games for things like progression and variety...
b/c its diff kind of skills, playing a none tab targetting game doesnt automatically label u as a better pvper.
since when is pvp about getting better gear or skills or other shitty rewards everyone gets whtin a few weeks of it releasing and wearing the same or complain about not having the same in a pvp setting were egual chance is so importand so that Skill counts for who is better and not gear.
the OP aint a PvP'er in heart at all, hes a dressup gear grinder , a true pvp'er does not care if hes naket running around fighting other naket characers on some battlefield aslong it gives him/her the trill of the battle and hopefully the win score.
Rewards for pvp is compleet bullshit and made for one reason only, to keep people longer in the game, just happens to have (d)evolved into a seperated "playstyle" that leeches of the pure pvp style player.
Point in red is exactly my point. Not sure why I will play GW2 for very long. There are much better e-sports out there that require more skill. GW2 will simply be about team composition and macros/mappings. There isn't much skill to tab-target game on the e-sport level. FPS has much higher twitch skill, and the tactics won't be as deep as an RTS or chess even. So to me, an MMO PVP needs to have something else to take me away from my other PVP games. Usually that something else for me is progression and loot. I admire the attempt at a pure e-sport, but I think there are better e-sports out there than a tab-target game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
come at lv1 to W v W v W and level up gear up your character for 80 levels.That should be enough of grind if you so desire.
I do have to say the RvRvR aspect of GW2 seems to be the only real draw for me. The carebear leveling (no PVP allowed and not even competition for resource nodes) and the lack of progression overall (leveling and loot de-emphisized for example) make me wonder why I'm going to bother to play for very long?
I'm an avid PVPer but without any real progression why would I replace my FPSers, which provide a near perfect e-sport, with tab-target GW2? Maybe this game just isn't geared towards players like me? I like MMO's for the progression of my character. I find it fun to keep improving it...
you should play those games that fun for you and make you happy.
Ha, of course. The thread is about for who this will be fun for. There are many of us who actually enjoy progressing a character and the thrill of loot. GW2 just might not be the game for those that like progression and loot...
you are right at lv 80 is the end of the game for you and like you coz there will be no better stats on the gear.you will still get loot from players you kill,but thats not progression
Some diffrent game aspects can coexist nicely (like in-depth crafting and large scale pvp for example) and some imo can't (making game that is good for drops, gear progression liking people and that at same time is for people that don't like gear-dependancy).
WoW made mainstream mmorpg's switch into making mmorpg for 'everybody' ,but imo that's past.
Some ppl will not like GW2 and that's ok. There is noone forcing anyone to play it.
Same with other incoming mmo's - I am sure not everyone will like i.e. ArcheAge when it comes , or not everyone will like TERA , or Planetside 2 or any WoD ,etc
If you don't like lack of gear progression then just don't play it imo
@Ishan-Shade: You say you want the sense of progression that gear grinding gives you, but then completely ignore WvW as the answer to your "concerns". Instead, you look at the arenas and ask, "Where is the sense of accomplishment?"
Well, Ishan, the answer is that you can either play the structured PvP and enjoy it for its own sake, play WvW and enjoy it for its own sake, or resign yourself to some other game. This game isn't your standard MMO, it doesn't follow the rules that other MMOs follow, so stop expecting a WoW clone. WoW was far from perfect or ideal.
What does progression have to do with WOW-clone? Have you ever stopped to think there are other games besides WOW and GW2? There are many forms of progression and gearing that have nothing to do with WOW gear grinds, there are other ways.
UO and SWG had penty of progression for a character to undertake, be it gearing up, character building, skill tapes etc... None of it required grinding, the path was your own to make to attain what you wanted.
People really need to walk outside the WOW-box that encompasses so much of this genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Believe me im not that guy out ganking lvl 10's with my lvl 80. I actually very much like a good fight. It just dosent feel like an mmo if everyone just chooses gear out of a screen. Thats why I play to get gear to pvp with.
I kind of want both gear and ranking progression. Meh maybe this one just isnt for me.
Meh starting to really hate the homoginization in mmo's its getting really pathetic.
I know you've gotten flamed over this statement, but yeah, you sorta deserve it. To say that GW2 is just like everything that is out there, really isn't credible. Will it work? Who knows. Is it like WoW/TOR/Rift/everyothergame? Not a chance.
When you are relying on almost entirely gear to win a fight, that's just like ganking a level 10 with your level 80. And about as entertaining. Sure it is fun every now and then to remind the up and comer to respect his betters, but after awhile, it gets boring knowing that until they can grind their butts off, they have no shot of winning.
Some diffrent game aspects can coexist nicely (like in-depth crafting and large scale pvp for example) and some imo can't (making game that is good for drops, gear progression liking people and that at same time is for people that don't like gear-dependancy).
WoW made mainstream mmorpg's switch into making mmorpg for 'everybody' ,but imo that's past.
Some ppl will not like GW2 and that's ok. There is noone forcing anyone to play it.
Same with other incoming mmo's - I am sure not everyone will like i.e. ArcheAge when it comes , or not everyone will like TERA , or Planetside 2 or any WoD ,etc
If you don't like lack of gear progression then just don't play it imo
Well the discussion is about who this game is for. I'm hoping the PVP will be deep enough to have some longevity without the hook of progression, and hopefully the RvRvR will be (I doubt the battegrounds will be). This is a message forum and it is for discussion is it not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
Guild Wars 2 enters the MOBA territory of logic, sharing that with it's original self, but compounding upon it with smarter refinements. Understand that Guild Wars 2 hasn't come out of the wood work at random, it is a the result of seven or more years of proven form and function from, you guessed it, Guild Wars 1. Heck, Guild Wars 2 even takes a stab at making it even more simplified and restricted, which I find is a better way to handle it. Instead of skills and abilities falling off monsters and crowded up the stores, skills are earned through use of a particular weapon and class.
This is where things become MOBA-like, as you will have only a handful of useable abilities at a given time, which put you into the role of a MOBA-Style character build. The huge difference of course is that your own personal appearance, comsmetics, and tastes make that character extremely unique visually. In MOBA, you will always face people who use the exact same character type as you, just look at DOTA, DOTA2, LOL, or any of those other games -- people will commonly face each other with many of the exact same skills in their hand.
The difference of course is how they've chosen to subtly structure their builds, with with minor tweaks in skill points and the distribution of focus to favor one set of abilities over another. People do this to make adjustments based on their play style and skill level. Two Warriors with the exact same ability at hand will do very different things based on what they know and how they've adjusted their traits. One may jump right in, slashing away with his/her distance-closing ability and built up fury bar -- the other may suddenly switch weapon sets, cripple the on-coming warrior and back off out of range pelting him/her with range attacks!
If you pay attention to the Guid Wars 2 User Interface and have watched some of the dozens upon dozens of hours of in-game footage from the Beta Weekend, you'll see that players also have access to a second skill bar on the right side of their HP bubble. The Left-Most bar are skills based on currently equiped weapon, off hand, and equipment sets. The Right-Most bar is customizable, giving access to 20+ abilities unlocked through Skill Points earned over time based on your class. You can place any of the abilities in given slots.
1 Slot = Healing Skill (Choose from 3 healing skills)
3 Slots = Utility Skills (Choose from 20 class-based skills, place in any order.)
1 Slot = Elite Skill (Choose from 3 elite skills.)
One warrior may have Endure Pain, a Stun-Breaking ability that gives immunity to damage for 5 Seconds unlocked, another may have Frenzy, a Stun-Breaking ability which gives Quickness (Fast ability recharge) and higher rate of Critical Damage for 6 seconds.
Check out the video: http://youtu.be/sb4HgTc3lyc?t=18m45s
These are where players can create their own builds and make adjustments accordingly. Due to the limits of the slots, players are not allowed a whole lot of flexibility, but there is enough to fit a play style. Many unlockable skills are team-based, which means you may have several different kind of builds for different situations. These 'builds' become your armor in a way, and it's how you change them up and experiment with them which promotes to a game's lifespan. Inevitably, more skills will be released in the game's life span allowing for new and interesting builds to be created as the game grows.
When new abilities are released, it's a like a new in-flux of gear and equipment. Players will be equickly rushing to master them and create tactics and good builds, making adjustments to their old ones and create new plans for the team. This is where the game finds it's lifespan, and it's not at all an experiment because it worked in Guild Wars 1 -- this is just a better version of that same system.
Ultimately, if you didn't like the first Guild Wars and never played it's PVP, you really don't have much of an idea of what to expect in GW2. I recommend instead of hypothizing and throwing around percentages, you just pick up GW1 and play some PVP and see if it's for you.
Nope. Just annoyed by all the trolls that are trying to stir things up, with nothing of substance to back their claims.
Without PvP gear progression we wont have PvP heroes like Vurtne, who facerolled undergeared people most of the time. Like every R14 vid on Vanilla WoW.
:[
If it concerns you don't buy it and don't play it.
Life IS Feudal
Has the OP ever played Street Fighter or Tekken for an extended period of time? Or any of the popular MOBAs or FPS titles? They too don't have gear progression yet they can have a ton of staying power for players that like competition based on skill.
What is even greater imo than the fact that there is no gear grind for pvp is the fact that stuns or incapacitates are totally minimized in this game. Gone are the days of stunlock 100-0 BS in other games.
If that type of competition isn't your thing, then well, this game isn't either. TBH, in a game like WoW, all the arena battles from basically 2000+ had the same gear. These people continue to play to climb the ladder for noteriety (and possibly the vanity mount).
I agree with the OP. MMO's to me are about progression and improving my character. I already have much better e-sport in my FPS games, why would I replace the skill based FPS e-sport with a tab-target MMO? If I want to show off my PVP skill I'm not going to be playing a tab-target game. I play tab-target games for things like progression and variety...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
variety? if you play MMOs for variety then why would you not play Guild Wars 2, as it by far offers the most options to take in leveling a character.
come at lv1 to W v W v W and level up gear up your character for 80 levels.That should be enough of grind if you so desire.
I think in this case variety means faceroll undergeared noobs and getting facerolled by geared vets
I do have to say the RvRvR aspect of GW2 seems to be the only real draw for me. The carebear leveling (no PVP allowed and not even competition for resource nodes) and the lack of progression overall (leveling and loot de-emphisized for example) make me wonder why I'm going to bother to play for very long?
I'm an avid PVPer but without any real progression why would I replace my FPSers, which provide a near perfect e-sport, with tab-target GW2? Maybe this game just isn't geared towards players like me? I like MMO's for the progression of my character. I find it fun to keep improving it...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
dont sweat it!arenanet wasnt number two behind wow (very close)for years by luck they were there because they made gw1 with almost no backing from ncsoft.they had to fight tooth an nail the whole way just to get ncsoft to accept gw1 .now with gw2 they have the full support of ncsoft so i dont sweat it!even if they charge me 9.99 a month i ll still play it cause i know what arenanet do and they do awsome stuff!pvp is awsome but they had lot of pve in gw1 true i wish they had made more random pve event but thats beside the point!if by progression you mean level then you ll probably be done leveling just a bit after start area!
grin!ya it will probably be quick!buy gw1 and try it you ll understand how it is!
PvP should be fought with equal gear imo, so skill and strategy determines the outcome. If I have to farm gear for endless hours to become competitive I won't even bother, I'll go play quake or starcraft for my competitive fix instead.
I've promised myself never to do boring stuff(geargrind, attunements, boring lvling etc)in order to have fun later on in MMO's ever again, GW2 is one of few games where it looks like I won't have to do boring stuff first in order to have fun later.
A few things:
1.) I as well spent most my time pvping in MMO's. I for one LOVE the fact that it will be skill based, not gear based. The idea that people of equal level and skill cannot have a fair fight because of gear is something I think is really wrong. When I play, I prefer skill winning my fights.
2.) The thing with these kind of games is it isn't individual balance that is the issue, but rather team balance. How do mechanics work as a team? Indeed, you will have FOTM builds, but with the sheer depth of skills, it shouldn't be too hard to develop counters to them. All it takes is some players willing to do the legwork to figure it out.
3.) For me I never pvp'ed for better gear. It should give a slight advantage, but not really. In the WvWvW system, you will be competing for the bonuses your server gets, and hopefully a ton of good fights along the way. I'll take those good fights over lopsided ones every day, where the fight was a foregone conclusion because I had better gear. Such battles bore me.
WOw brainwashed the newcomers to the mmorpg industry. The rest of us are used to earning success through team work and skill. In some more elite pvp games, i.e., dark age of camelot, your skills increase in game as well based on points earned from pvp success.
you should play those games that fun for you and make you happy.
Ha, of course. The thread is about for who this will be fun for. There are many of us who actually enjoy progressing a character and the thrill of loot. GW2 just might not be the game for those that like progression and loot...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
since when is pvp about getting better gear or skills or other shitty rewards everyone gets whtin a few weeks of it releasing and wearing the same or complain about not having the same in a pvp setting were egual chance is so importand so that Skill counts for who is better and not gear.
the OP aint a PvP'er in heart at all, hes a dressup gear grinder , a true pvp'er does not care if hes naket running around fighting other naket characers on some battlefield aslong it gives him/her the trill of the battle and hopefully the win score.
Rewards for pvp is compleet bullshit and made for one reason only, to keep people longer in the game, just happens to have (d)evolved into a seperated "playstyle" that leeches of the pure pvp style player.
yep daoc was great when there was no grinding, ppl play for enjoyment and pride.
b/c its diff kind of skills, playing a none tab targetting game doesnt automatically label u as a better pvper.
Point in red is exactly my point. Not sure why I will play GW2 for very long. There are much better e-sports out there that require more skill. GW2 will simply be about team composition and macros/mappings. There isn't much skill to tab-target game on the e-sport level. FPS has much higher twitch skill, and the tactics won't be as deep as an RTS or chess even. So to me, an MMO PVP needs to have something else to take me away from my other PVP games. Usually that something else for me is progression and loot. I admire the attempt at a pure e-sport, but I think there are better e-sports out there than a tab-target game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
you are right at lv 80 is the end of the game for you and like you coz there will be no better stats on the gear.you will still get loot from players you kill,but thats not progression
Not sure what's discussion about.
Not every game have to be for everybody.
Some diffrent game aspects can coexist nicely (like in-depth crafting and large scale pvp for example) and some imo can't (making game that is good for drops, gear progression liking people and that at same time is for people that don't like gear-dependancy).
WoW made mainstream mmorpg's switch into making mmorpg for 'everybody' ,but imo that's past.
Some ppl will not like GW2 and that's ok. There is noone forcing anyone to play it.
Same with other incoming mmo's - I am sure not everyone will like i.e. ArcheAge when it comes , or not everyone will like TERA , or Planetside 2 or any WoD ,etc
If you don't like lack of gear progression then just don't play it imo
What does progression have to do with WOW-clone? Have you ever stopped to think there are other games besides WOW and GW2? There are many forms of progression and gearing that have nothing to do with WOW gear grinds, there are other ways.
UO and SWG had penty of progression for a character to undertake, be it gearing up, character building, skill tapes etc... None of it required grinding, the path was your own to make to attain what you wanted.
People really need to walk outside the WOW-box that encompasses so much of this genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I know you've gotten flamed over this statement, but yeah, you sorta deserve it. To say that GW2 is just like everything that is out there, really isn't credible. Will it work? Who knows. Is it like WoW/TOR/Rift/everyothergame? Not a chance.
When you are relying on almost entirely gear to win a fight, that's just like ganking a level 10 with your level 80. And about as entertaining. Sure it is fun every now and then to remind the up and comer to respect his betters, but after awhile, it gets boring knowing that until they can grind their butts off, they have no shot of winning.
Well the discussion is about who this game is for. I'm hoping the PVP will be deep enough to have some longevity without the hook of progression, and hopefully the RvRvR will be (I doubt the battegrounds will be). This is a message forum and it is for discussion is it not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements