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Fear setting in . . .
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Anet seems pretty solid in their game design "without" these problematic wow clone issues, they can see by the sheer lack of numbers especially in the most recent of games released, which shall remain unspoken, that releasing a game that's A: unfinished/a shell of an mmo and B: that has all of the problematic issues that come with gear treadmill, global cooldown, target/macro combat, worlds on rails -- will be more then what they wish to handle and will also break the popularity of their game. That's not their overall goal with this title, it's to make the game more fun, more interactive and give players more choices to do as close to anything they want to do in their world.
These people who are shouting for the old style game just need to adapt or move on. simple.
I've heard this argument a million times. The thing is, most pvpers do not like the idea of gear for progressions sake due to the issues that stem from them. 1: system doesn't recognize the gear someone is wearing so the other player has an unfair advantage instead of using skill 2: gear gives an unfair advantage to unskilled players and allows them to survive when they wouldn't normally 3: players who die alot in pvp are given points to buy armor that gives them an unfair advantage instead of learning from their mistakes in pvp and working to make themselves better.
I can totally see their point (the point of those against pvp armor). When i tried pvp for the sake of hanging out with friends to make things easier to coordinate, i noticed a huge difference when trying to kill a geared player vs a non-geared and most of the time they would just not care if we were going to defeat them (because most of the time they could due to their gear alone not their skill) stand out in the open and just pick people off. This isn't challenging in the slightest.
As an avid PVE'er i can tell you a few great things about the pve side of GW2:
1: no end game means the entire game all the way through is the content no more racing to the end.
2: a sort of backwards sidekicking mechanism allows for players to visit lower level zones and not dominate everything and the requirement to learn skills via the use of weapons instead of trainers means one can play with friends no matter how much farther along you are.
3: the DE's are coded to allow new scripting and new events seemlessly which means no more dungeon runs for anything other then fun and content is updated much more quickly then creating an entire instance from scratch every patch.
4: the separation of the code for pve and pvp means i will never have to relearn my class every week for three months like on other games that decided my class was too powerful so they wanted to nerf bullets but boost magic missiles. You know which game i'm talking about. It's the elephant in the room.
The old style is dead, we've seen that from the horrible numbers the most recent wow killer was supposed to produce but didn't and now we see the result of such by way of lead developers and a lead writer leaving said game right after launch. Let's all let the old system die a quick dignified death by not asking for more of the same shall we?
Its kind of odd, the game i want is from a different type of MMO thinking, where the group and the realm were paramount to game play. Cooperation and comraderie were the 99% and solo selfish thinking were the 1%. Even Wow in its first incarnation still had a sense of multiplayer play (small amounts) but as the years progressed the meme crowd took over.
Maybe my type of game where working together for a common goal is the 1% still and the selfish soloist elitist players are the 99% now adays, but i just really feel that ANet has listened to like minded players like myself. Sure there is The Secret World coming out also, and i am anxious to get more infromation about that game, and there is Dominus also. GW2 just seems to be fulfilling this long over-do need that i have not found in anything since DAoC-pre-ToA.
There were sparkles out there...
Saga of Ryzom, it was very sandboxey but the PvP was terrible, so it missed my mark there.
EvE, amazing game but for me i needed a humanoid avatar not a hunk of metal in space/by the way if EvE ever combined there FPSMMO dust with EvE by havin ship assaults, well i would drop everything for that kind of game because space pirating would be incredible. Alas Dust is instanced to planet surfaces and really does not connect with EvE.
SWG, sigh, how i loved SWG prior to the smedley corruption of the NGE, even if it flawed from day one that game just sung to my soul somehow, i truly was upset along with my wife when they thrust that horrible game mechanic on us all. I really miss my creature handler.
Age of Conan, so much potential to have been something good but such a dismal attampt to live up to its promises, if they had stuck to the mature aspects they touted and promised i think alot of those issues would have been overlooked, i am not just talking about the sexual aspect that was never really delivered, more along the lines of the grisly combat with dismemberment in a serious form.
Anyhow i can go on forever with all the recent MMO's i had my hopes set on thinking yeah maybe this is will be it, but from what i have seen, from what i have read, and from those i know in the industry who have had first hand experiences with GW2 i can honestly let myself be absorbed by this game and it will bring me back to those lost days of Ultima Online, Everquest, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. At one point i had subs to at least 3 of those games for over a year and i loved every minute of it.
Sorry for the small book i made just thought i would share.
Lolipops !
I wouldn't worry too much in your place...
Their Manifesto already addressed the bulk of these mechanics to my mind so I wouldn't expect to see them raise their heads in this game.
My fears are more basic.
As with any game that hasn't launched, the primary questions for me will be the amount of resources the Developer will commit to the live game after launch and the quality of the Community in-game.
The fact that game is no sub and will exist on it's expansions make new live game content a rather large question in my mind. I don't know how it was done in GW1 but seem to remember that all new classes and new lands were added via expansions, no clues on additional content added besides this though. I don't mind not paying a sub so long as I don't get nickle and dimed for more than a classic sub is worth annually.
Lack of a subscription cost tends to bring out the less savory grade of players and I'd prefer not to let the 2 or 3 hours I have to devote to gaming weekly be spoiled by them.
It reminds me somewhat of older school MMO's where you have to use a weapon to get good with it. I'm kinda hoping that spells work the same way honestly.
I actually miss the days where my character would say "Zojack Quasith" and all I got was a wand fizzle while being charged by something intent on eating me.
I see this word "persistence" pop up alot with gw2, and im not really seeing the issue. Besides the fact that the 2 week timer with server switches helps to prevent servers from constantly getting owned, I really do see it as persistant, only that after 2 weeks someone came and took my land just like if another server took it and i need to get it back. i hate games where one group takes a castle/keep (aion) and it just stays there's forever because they were so hard to take back.
If you want a raiding game well then there is one that does it better than any other..wow
It is folly to try and compete with wow in terms of raiding.
A-net should stick to their guns and do their own thing and not listen to the masses of sheep that think every mmo should follow the same formula.
There is pvp gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrvV0rKGKw&feature=plcp&context=C3435f80UDOEgsToPDskKmIVoyQ1Gd4jM53ViDRo8u
Anyway pvp should be about skill and not your armour rating.
No.
See this is when reality will set in because people are a bit hard headed in this process, no your not hard headed Zippy but there are a lot of hard headed peopl out who really think this game needs a carrot.
You know what is very funny about these games with [endgame carrots]? The sheer fact that people always complain about having nothing to do once you reach endgame because the PVP is BS, the [raiding] is BS, searching for some shit is in fact BS, repetitive dungeons that funny enough don't have any original ideas or at the end of the day it's like...
World of freaking Warcraft.
People need to try harder if that's their BS reason because games with carrots some freaking how, loose intrest!
Take care of y'all selves and please come up with real problems.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
90% of these people lose interest because they simply do not have the attention span to play any MMO longer than a few months. They have no idea what they want in a MMO except they complain continously that the game thgey are playing is not what they want. I hate to call them children but most of them are and with a child's attention span. Unfortunately it is for these children that many MMOS are designed. Games are simplified and dumbed down to the lowest demoinator. Which generally means trying to entertain and keep the children busy long enough to get a few dollars out of them before they leave for the next best thing.
But the carrot is not meant for the children but for the people that stay around and keep playing.
In regards to GW2 I hope it does well and the DAOC style W.W.W is attractive. But I ask again why would anyone do an activity without a carrot. If there is no reason to PvP or PvE the general developer rule of thumb is people will not do it. People will engage in activities that give the biggest reward regardless of wther they like that activity or not. The opposite happens with fun activities. No matter how much fun an activity is people do not play it if it lacks an enticing reward. DAOC offered PvP character progresion so there was a reward for continuing to PvP. PVE games offer endgame gear progression and sometimes character progression through AA's.
Forgive my ignorance but if the idea is make everyone equal and have no endgame progression thats fine and it ties in with a F2P ultra casual game. But the drawback is will anyone play and engage in activies that does not progress their character or progress their guild? It said empty servers to me. Which works fine where people can play then for a month then go back to their main MMO and come back in a few months when there is new content play for a few days then go back to their main MMO and wait on new content. But if one is looking for a persistent world I don't see how this approach works.
Yes! You're right Brother! We'll dominate the market again, like the tyranical elitist groupers we were in the old days! /end sarcasm
Why do people keep saying the carrot on a stick is the only way to make a game?. There are other genres in gaming apart from mmorpgs. Have you seen fps? mobas? they got no carrot on the stick, people play them because they enjoy it.
You have to stop thinking of GW2 as a normal MMO, its trying to bring players from other genres to it by removing things they dont like about our genre and adding things they like.
And what is this retarded nonsense that if theres no gear treadmill a game is casual? The dungeons as explained by different reviewers and people who tested the game are super dificult, they get wiped dozens of times and take hours to complete them, what is casual about that?
One last thing. Are you effing blind? Its true, there are people who enjoy gear treadmills and epeen. But why are you ignoring the fact that there ARE people who dont enjoy it and tired of it? Im sure this game will have a healthy population since this is one of the few if not the ONLY AAA MMO that has no gear treadmill so the guys who hate it will flock to it
It's because they give you other things to do than the typical endgame.
People of all ages complain because they already have done WoW endgame stuff so to copy it is really pointless.
The games replay value is high extremely high lol and I know it isn't out yet but just on the "big picture" you can level up many ways.
The PVP and then you have traits,free mode dungeons(with difficulties and the story one is the easiest), achievements(The list is huge), replayable de's, meta events(I still think they tie into DE's I'd like more info), hidden areas, all that's without alts, with alts you could literally find diferent ways to level even in the same zone, your personal story goes from level 1 to 80 and it scales, hell everything scales so you can't just one hit kill every single thing once hitting max level, they got the tools to add in events that you possibly never seen before, I don't think in one playthrough you'll experience all 1500 dynamic events, you can from once you get a tutorial head straight to another starting zone so you could level in a whole different path if you want there is 25 zones for PVE, that's just explorin and what not.
They don't need carrots or raids because the alts actually work and they are making those rewarding rather than just mainly Raiding and grinding for better gear. Like I keep saying if games needed endgame to keep retention you wouldn't see it as an issue to this date.
They have solutions, they aren't Gods, they just chose to literally fix issues so renention don't have to be focused on. I've been reading issues with MMOs the need to go back to starting areas, having more than just 1 way to level, what do I do once I hit max level? I'll repeat that "what do I do when I hit max level?" then they give a list.
Like seriousely typical days in those MMOs after hitting max level can literally be done in GW 2 your just not doing carrot runs and grinding for gear. What's funny is when you get that gear only for stronger gear to come, "what now?" yea I know same thing applies to GW 2 "what now?" well their "what now?" is having the ability to keep having fun hell if one is hoping their retention short they better hope their mini games are half assed lol, there is a whole lot to do and the stuff to do unlike most MMOs it's actually worth while.
It's almost showing that one doesn't play games because it's fun but because you must show your strong. Then you got events for holidays and what not, honestly the don't feel the need to make you stress over getting +5 strength long as your skills increase you should feel growth in your self in which you can apply to your ingame character.
At the end of the day we are both speculating, so Zippy how about we just wait and see even though like I said all they did was take out raiding and gear grind and put those resources into other experiences.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Thats the beauty of this game though. Its one of few that does something different. Not everyone wants the carrot and i do believe that it will have enough things for me to do to spend time after max level.
Did you see the video on the guild mechanics? It really seems to me that there will be a lot of ways to progress your guild from everything you do.
I plan on making gw2 my main mmo, and if it delievers as promised i dont kno how i will justify myself paying for some of the games coming out or have droped in the past few years
I haven't really bothered myself with mmo endgame after daoc, it just wasn't worth the time, pve raiding is pointless due to no uses for the gear at all. Least in daoc you could raid then go rvr with it for realm skill points and faction wide bonuses. The problem is when you have pointless arena based pvp like wow etc with no real reason to bother with it, and the fact there is pvp gear just screws a pve player from trying it, since as most know in wow pve gear is near usless in pve due to resilence. They have toned it down some but its still messed up.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
There is always a carrot. You will still be chasing things like ranks, titles, unlocks etc. Only because there is no stats on gear doesn't mean that carrot is going away. Players need something to do to keep themselves busy once they hit max levels.
Guild wars 2 will have more lateral progression instead of verticle progression a la wow.
I don't know about you, but I never believe they will actually deliver what they promise because well, it never happens, your sort of setting yourself up to be let down if you think they will.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Siveria what have they promised that hasn't been shown yet? Like I'm serious lol.
I guess you could say Asura, Sylvarii starting zones, mini games, and crafting that's yet to be thoroughly seen in depth.
Forgot to add and yes I took account of your sig.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I challenge you to find me more than 2 things that they have said they are doing and arent showed to be in game by a video.
They have kept all their promises
the difference is i wont be forced to do it "Their" way. i dont care a bout tites and achievements, yes i will go after unlocks and things but I wont have to just to become viable. To me the Carrot is end game gear grinding. Worst part of most games i play IMO.
Even star wars i played long enough to get max level and it felt as if my charicter was dead. The most fun i had playing the game was low level when pvp gear wasnt an issue and everyone was on a similar playing field
Actually carrot means, incentive for you to keep playing your character. Every player wants to progress their characters in one way or the other. So nope carrot on stick doesn't just mean gear grind.
Thats true but if you see who he is talking to, it shows that the person in question seems to consider that carrot on the stick is only gear progresion, either that or hes completely ignoring all the videos around of all the achievments and things that can be done. So adressing it as such is only for his understanding, specially since hes explaining that its what it means to HIM.
Even if we take your view of "The carrot" gear progress would be the green leafy top you cut off before eating it