Let's take WoW out of the picture. What mmo right now has the most subs in NA?
Yeah that's an exellent question, too bad we don't have the actual answer since it's been a month since they last gave use that vague 1.7 mil answer of active subs. I'd like to see their active sub list now that march is almost here can't be good.
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats.
I see what you're doing, EA.
Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
What do you have that proves them unsuccessful? What data?
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats.
I see what you're doing, EA.
Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
What do you have that proves them unsuccessful? What data?
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
By the same standard i guess Tera is even a bigger flop. Right?
Doesn't it circle it in yellow on the map for you as well? Oh we don't have yellow question marks we just have yellow circles. I do concede one is a shape and one is punctuation.
I find it funny how people love to jump all over EA and BioWare for their marketing tactics, yet every single company is doing the exact same thing. [snip] Instead of people taking a step back and actually really looking, they buy into the hype.
The yellow circles in GW2 that were mentioned above are a great example. It really doesn't matter if it is a symbol of some sort or a glowing cirlce, it does exactly the same thing and for exactly the same reason.
No one will probably read this, as usual for factual information on these forums, but I'll post it anyway. The original developer video that talked about not having quest markers was actually true at the time. The problem is that when Arena Net brought in real MMO players (read: people who maybe played 1 MMO) to test the game out they were confused and couldn't figure out what to do.
They saw a farm on fire and bandits raiding it and they just ran by. When asked why they didn't stop to help, well, they didn't have a quest for that, of course? After that they added the Scouts into the game so morons could figure out what they were supposed to be doing. This was all clarified in videos from the developers. The scouts are also completely optional. You don't have to talk to NPCs before engaging in an event, but they are there for people who are used to that sort of thing.
Edit: There are some NPCs you do have to talk to though, those are the ones related to your personal story.
Try taking a step back for a change and actually looking instead of just reading into the hype. [snip] It is also part of the reason I doubt I will be buying GW2. So far the more info I see about that game, the more uninterested I become. I can't help but seeing another Rift with "dynamic" events whose only real dynamics involve the random time between events.
I'm not sure you understand the word dynamic if you thought it was going to be something different than what AN has showed us. A lot of people seem to think that dynamic = random or non-repeating. It does not, look it up.
I'm not going to start a discussion about GW2 design decisions here, but I will say that a lot more goes into making GW2 different than just the dynamic event system.
Add to that the "Hopping House Elves" ripped straight out of Harry Potter, and another race that seems definately designed by pedophiles, and to be honest, my impression just goes down in the dumps. That isn't even including the fact that the cut scenes and VO work I have seen so far are less than 3rd rate.
Equating Asura to house elves is kind of funny. You'd probably think it was funny too if you knew anything about the race. Do you think you could come up with the name of the race that is "designed by pedophiles"? I'm curious about that.
The voice acting and cut scenes I agree with though. All the footage I watched from the press weekend was pretty cheesy.
Edit: Typos and clarification.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats.
I see what you're doing, EA.
Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
I'm in total agreement with this post. The idea of subliminal reinforcement is what all these spurious financial figures and 'milestones' have been all about.
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats. I see what you're doing, EA. Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
What do you have that proves them unsuccessful? What data?
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
By the same standard i guess Tera is even a bigger flop. Right?
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats.
I see what you're doing, EA.
Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
What do you have that proves them unsuccessful? What data?
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
By the same standard i guess Tera is even a bigger flop. Right?
I've seen at least 4 news articles all featuring the word "because of its success" or "it's a successful" when all data prooves the opposite and something starts to smell of plague rats.
I see what you're doing, EA.
Partial persuasive information, hide the truth at all costs.
All of the data shows it is following the same trend as nearly every mmo released in recent years. The major difference is there are significantly more people involved in the population drop - but it appears to be the same percentage of drop off as other mmos. What I mean is that there are millions who tried so there are hundreds of thousands leaving, where a game like rift for example had hundreds of thousands try and thousands left. Personally, because of the number of box sales and numbers of initial subs compared to other recently released games, I would call SW a success too. Rift called itself a success with far less population but a nearly identical percentage drop after release. Now which would you call success, a game with a 30% retention rate which has 200,000 subs or a game with a 30% retention rate with 1,000,000 subs? In this mmo market, it is a success.
You see the retention rate as a failure, and that is opinion, not a fact. I see this as a normal trend - that is a fact.
I'll go one further. I bought it and have unsubbed = unsuccessful.
The most honest posts I've seen.
Here, we have their opinion of the game, but haven't extrapolated their opinion to 'prove' macro trends in the mmo industry.
I'm not a huge fan of SWToR. I think it could have been better. But the game sold well. There are hundreds of thousands playing it, and its retention rate seems to be similar to other recent releases. In this mmo market, the game is a success.
In my opinion, it is so-so, but I'm not going to be so myopic to think my opinion is synonomous with industry success.
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
I'll go one further. I bought it and have unsubbed = unsuccessful.
I'll go one further. I bought it, enjoy it, and am still subbed = successful
I'll go one further yet. Played beta, didn't like it. Ended up buying it in January for research purposes (part of my work). Had a love/hate relationship with it in which I canceled my sub. But then I resubbed in February, and am having a blast finally when I realized it was the best game out there = success.
Doesn't it circle it in yellow on the map for you as well? Oh we don't have yellow question marks we just have yellow circles. I do concede one is a shape and one is punctuation.
I find it funny how people love to jump all over EA and BioWare for their marketing tactics, yet every single company is doing the exact same thing. [snip] Instead of people taking a step back and actually really looking, they buy into the hype.
The yellow circles in GW2 that were mentioned above are a great example. It really doesn't matter if it is a symbol of some sort or a glowing cirlce, it does exactly the same thing and for exactly the same reason.
No one will probably read this, as usual for factual information on these forums, but I'll post it anyway. The original developer video that talked about not having quest markers was actually true at the time. The problem is that when Arena Net brought in real MMO players (read: people who maybe played 1 MMO) to test the game out they were confused and couldn't figure out what to do.
They saw a farm on fire and bandits raiding it and they just ran by. When asked why they didn't stop to help, well, they didn't have a quest for that, of course? After that they added the Scouts into the game so morons could figure out what they were supposed to be doing. This was all clarified in videos from the developers. The scouts are also completely optional. You don't have to talk to NPCs before engaging in an event, but they are there for people who are used to that sort of thing.
Edit: There are some NPCs you do have to talk to though, those are the ones related to your personal story.
Try taking a step back for a change and actually looking instead of just reading into the hype. [snip] It is also part of the reason I doubt I will be buying GW2. So far the more info I see about that game, the more uninterested I become. I can't help but seeing another Rift with "dynamic" events whose only real dynamics involve the random time between events.
I'm not sure you understand the word dynamic if you thought it was going to be something different than what AN has showed us. A lot of people seem to think that dynamic = random or non-repeating. It does not, look it up.
I'm not going to start a discussion about GW2 design decisions here, but I will say that a lot more goes into making GW2 different than just the dynamic event system.
Add to that the "Hopping House Elves" ripped straight out of Harry Potter, and another race that seems definately designed by pedophiles, and to be honest, my impression just goes down in the dumps. That isn't even including the fact that the cut scenes and VO work I have seen so far are less than 3rd rate.
Equating Asura to house elves is kind of funny. You'd probably think it was funny too if you knew anything about the race. Do you think you could come up with the name of the race that is "designed by pedophiles"? I'm curious about that.
The voice acting and cut scenes I agree with though. All the footage I watched from the press weekend was pretty cheesy.
Edit: Typos and clarification.
So basically, while you do not like my feelings on this game or my intrepretation of what I am seeing, you can not actually disagree with the fact that I am right. Thanks for the backup.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
On top of that, BioWare increased the servers capabilities after launch thus completely screwing up this type of measurement capabilities.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
And the review from capable journos, the vids on youtube, everything.
If you were just going to base failure of SWTOR on how much people complain you didn't even have to go that far, you could have just posted link for mmorpg.com.
Sorry but that is not the data.
well fine that's fine.
The point is their subliminal propaganda, not the fricking datas of failure.
they're forcing positivity and happy happiness. That's fact. Why? They're scared, no? That's hard fact too.
Besides, c'mon. The game is poopy doopy. Another hard data.
Guees you never heard of advertisement. Do you really expect them to put down their own product? Really?
No we definately should not, you gotta put on your BS blinders when sifting through some article directly from any company. They are going to show us the fluffy side of things every time.
I'd want them to link their forums in one of their articles in these meetings. Then let the investorts sit there and read some of the stuff, and then play...
or even play and then read the forums and decide if the people are just bullshitting or what. I'd doubt they'd care, in fact I'm sure they wouldn't its all about the dollar to these folks.
Entertaining nonetheless..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
a game Publisher will never announce failures, like dropping sub numbers, massive flaws in game design or technical instabilities...
the game, through the pr filter, is an MMO and as such never finished and everyone in 'the team' is hard at work to make a great game even better..
if you want to know the watermark, look for server merges, extended free demos, shutdown of service in peripheral locations and ongoing press buzz...
its way too early to call swtor a failure, but the fact that the media hype ebbed up so quickly and most relevant media are now drumming the guild wars wagon does give a hint.
"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. The situation is the same in regard to what we understand by the word, propaganda. The purpose of propaganda is not the personal instruction of the individual, but rather to attract public attention to certain things, the importance of which can be brought home to the masses only by this means.
Here the art of propaganda consists in putting a matter so clearly and forcibly before the minds of the people as to create a general conviction regarding the reality of a certain fact, the necessity of certain things and the just character of something that is essential. But as this art is not an end in itself and because its purpose must be exactly that of the advertisement poster, to attract the attention of the masses and not by any means to dispense individual instructions to those who already have an educated opinion on things or who wish to form such an opinion on grounds of objective study--because that is not the purpose of propaganda, it must appeal to the feelings of the public rather than to their reasoning powers.
All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. Thus its purely intellectual level will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach. When there is question of bringing great masses within the circle of its influence, then too much attention cannot be paid to the necessity of avoiding a high level, which presupposes a relatively high degree of intelligence among the public.
The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the masses.
That it is a mistake to organize the direct propaganda as if it were a manifold system of scientific instruction. The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. If this principle be forgotten and if an attempt be made to be abstract and general, the propaganda will turn out ineffective; for the public will not be able to digest or retain what is offered to them in this way. Therefore, the greater the scope of the message that has to be presented, the more necessary it is for the propaganda to discover that plan of action which is psychologically the most efficient.
The worst of all was that our people did not understand the very first condition which has to be fulfilled in every kind of propaganda; namely, a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with. What, for example, should we say of a poster which purported to advertise some new brand of soap by insisting on the excellent qualities of the competitive brands? We should naturally shake our heads. Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side.
The great majority is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood. Its notions are never partly this and partly that.
It is not the purpose of propaganda to create a series of alterations in sentiment with a view to pleasing these blase gentry. Its chief function is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time in order that they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on the memory of the crowd.
Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula. In this way alone can propaganda be consistent and dynamic in its effects."
*cough* ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
you are the one looking ignorant currently. While Solid numbers cannot be found, measuring server load still gives all the information you need to see the game is declining. If the first month was at 500 which means very heavy to full. and each subsequent month it drops which now it barely tips into heavy above standard , most of the time being light. It shows a SEVERE population decline, however the actual numbers elude us, mostly because EA will not release them and lose their investors. it is a sad existence for a company to have to lie to keep its money, as we have all seen before it will only end badly.
we have seen it all on our servers, my server Juyo was full in the first month mostly. now it can barely break standard. Most servers have become virtual ghost towns, Guilds have had to merge just to be able to see content because everyone is leaving. If you actually paid attention while you played the game(assuming you do play it) you would see it for yourself, There are only 4-5 servers who maintain populations all the other ones have ghosts.
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
you are the one looking ignorant currently. While Solid numbers cannot be found, measuring server load still gives all the information you need to see the game is declining. If the first month was at 500 which means very heavy to full. and each subsequent month it drops which now it barely tips into heavy above standard , most of the time being light. It shows a SEVERE population decline, however the actual numbers elude us, mostly because EA will not release them and lose their investors. it is a sad existence for a company to have to lie to keep its money, as we have all seen before it will only end badly.
Actually, he's right: server status differs per server bc they used variable player caps, meaning that a server can have status light with 850 players online while another can have status standard with 650, 1 server can register as standard with 2100 players online while another can report heavy with 1850. Which makes treating the status of all servers equal isn't really a good method statistically. But sure, for a very rough estimation, it's safe to say that the numbers aren't increasing, obviously. As for not releasing the actual numbers, eh, they did that at the last conference meeting, what more do you expect? Have you seen other game companies release their numbers by any chance on a regular base? I still haven't heard anything of Trion regarding Rift except when they reached the 1 million accumulated sales, TERA I've no idea how many Korean subs they might have nor Aion, and Blizzard only started reporting sub numbers the past year after a 2 year gap when they stopped reporting NA/EU sub numbers individually. So... -_-
Actually, he's right: server status differs per server bc they used variable player caps, meaning that a server can have status light with 850 players online while another can have status standard with 650, 1 server can register as standard with 2100 players online while another can report heavy with 1850.
"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. The situation is the same in regard to what we understand by the word, propaganda. The purpose of propaganda is not the personal instruction of the individual, but rather to attract public attention to certain things, the importance of which can be brought home to the masses only by this means.
Here the art of propaganda consists in putting a matter so clearly and forcibly before the minds of the people as to create a general conviction regarding the reality of a certain fact, the necessity of certain things and the just character of something that is essential. But as this art is not an end in itself and because its purpose must be exactly that of the advertisement poster, to attract the attention of the masses and not by any means to dispense individual instructions to those who already have an educated opinion on things or who wish to form such an opinion on grounds of objective study--because that is not the purpose of propaganda, it must appeal to the feelings of the public rather than to their reasoning powers.
All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. Thus its purely intellectual level will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach. When there is question of bringing great masses within the circle of its influence, then too much attention cannot be paid to the necessity of avoiding a high level, which presupposes a relatively high degree of intelligence among the public.
The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the masses.
That it is a mistake to organize the direct propaganda as if it were a manifold system of scientific instruction. The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. If this principle be forgotten and if an attempt be made to be abstract and general, the propaganda will turn out ineffective; for the public will not be able to digest or retain what is offered to them in this way. Therefore, the greater the scope of the message that has to be presented, the more necessary it is for the propaganda to discover that plan of action which is psychologically the most efficient.
The worst of all was that our people did not understand the very first condition which has to be fulfilled in every kind of propaganda; namely, a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with. What, for example, should we say of a poster which purported to advertise some new brand of soap by insisting on the excellent qualities of the competitive brands? We should naturally shake our heads. Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side.
The great majority is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood. Its notions are never partly this and partly that.
It is not the purpose of propaganda to create a series of alterations in sentiment with a view to pleasing these blase gentry. Its chief function is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time in order that they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on the memory of the crowd.
Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula. In this way alone can propaganda be consistent and dynamic in its effects."
*cough* ^^
Source = Mein Kampf: Since you didn't say.
I know you weren't trying to pass it off as your own cause it's quoted. Just curious where you took it from.
"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. The situation is the same in regard to what we understand by the word, propaganda. The purpose of propaganda is not the personal instruction of the individual, but rather to attract public attention to certain things, the importance of which can be brought home to the masses only by this means.
Here the art of propaganda consists in putting a matter so clearly and forcibly before the minds of the people as to create a general conviction regarding the reality of a certain fact, the necessity of certain things and the just character of something that is essential. But as this art is not an end in itself and because its purpose must be exactly that of the advertisement poster, to attract the attention of the masses and not by any means to dispense individual instructions to those who already have an educated opinion on things or who wish to form such an opinion on grounds of objective study--because that is not the purpose of propaganda, it must appeal to the feelings of the public rather than to their reasoning powers.
All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. Thus its purely intellectual level will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach. When there is question of bringing great masses within the circle of its influence, then too much attention cannot be paid to the necessity of avoiding a high level, which presupposes a relatively high degree of intelligence among the public.
The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the masses.
That it is a mistake to organize the direct propaganda as if it were a manifold system of scientific instruction. The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. If this principle be forgotten and if an attempt be made to be abstract and general, the propaganda will turn out ineffective; for the public will not be able to digest or retain what is offered to them in this way. Therefore, the greater the scope of the message that has to be presented, the more necessary it is for the propaganda to discover that plan of action which is psychologically the most efficient.
The worst of all was that our people did not understand the very first condition which has to be fulfilled in every kind of propaganda; namely, a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with. What, for example, should we say of a poster which purported to advertise some new brand of soap by insisting on the excellent qualities of the competitive brands? We should naturally shake our heads. Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side.
The great majority is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood. Its notions are never partly this and partly that.
It is not the purpose of propaganda to create a series of alterations in sentiment with a view to pleasing these blase gentry. Its chief function is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time in order that they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on the memory of the crowd.
Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula. In this way alone can propaganda be consistent and dynamic in its effects."
*cough* ^^
Source = Mein Kampf: Since you didn't say.
I know you weren't trying to pass it off as your own cause it's quoted. Just curious where you took it from.
You win ... a cake!
Well I am historian. Yeah I have a real university degree in it. Believe it! And Third Reich was my speciality. You can nowadays just google for it, btw.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
you are the one looking ignorant currently. While Solid numbers cannot be found, measuring server load still gives all the information you need to see the game is declining. If the first month was at 500 which means very heavy to full. and each subsequent month it drops which now it barely tips into heavy above standard , most of the time being light. It shows a SEVERE population decline, however the actual numbers elude us, mostly because EA will not release them and lose their investors. it is a sad existence for a company to have to lie to keep its money, as we have all seen before it will only end badly.
Actually, he's right: server status differs per server bc they used variable player caps, meaning that a server can have status light with 850 players online while another can have status standard with 650, 1 server can register as standard with 2100 players online while another can report heavy with 1850. Which makes treating the status of all servers equal isn't really a good method statistically. But sure, for a very rough estimation, it's safe to say that the numbers aren't increasing, obviously. As for not releasing the actual numbers, eh, they did that at the last conference meeting, what more do you expect? Have you seen other game companies release their numbers by any chance on a regular base? I still haven't heard anything of Trion regarding Rift except when they reached the 1 million accumulated sales, TERA I've no idea how many Korean subs they might have nor Aion, and Blizzard only started reporting sub numbers the past year after a 2 year gap when they stopped reporting NA/EU sub numbers individually. So... -_-
they do not use variable player caps, all servers are set at the same caps, if not it would yet again be a lie as to the server really wouldnt be light or standard or heavy etc, it would only be a visual lie. Regardless of this, The fact that the server populations were at a massive high in the first month, and now in the second month and beyond have dipped below half, still shows that the game is in decline, which was what my links were meant to show. No one needs the real numbers because the broad form tracking of server load is so massive in disparity that the decline cannot be argued.
Comments
Yeah that's an exellent question, too bad we don't have the actual answer since it's been a month since they last gave use that vague 1.7 mil answer of active subs. I'd like to see their active sub list now that march is almost here can't be good.
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
By the same standard i guess Tera is even a bigger flop. Right?
Edit: Typos and clarification.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I'm in total agreement with this post. The idea of subliminal reinforcement is what all these spurious financial figures and 'milestones' have been all about.
What do you have that proves them unsuccessful? What data?
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums.. of people complaining that Nobody is in the game...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent foums... about people complaining the game is a BAD CLONE game
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... About people complaining about Bugs...
1000+ post on 100 diffrent forums... about people telling others they quit
All server pops going DOWN DOWN DOWN....
No Farmers spaming about selling GOLD, because thier is nobody playing so their is no profit in it
Everyone I know from more then a decade of playing, have either never picked up the game, picked it up and cancelled thier subs
Xfire users keep declining....
But hey were are all dilusional and not in tuch with reality RIGHT!!!!!
By the same standard i guess Tera is even a bigger flop. Right?
Is SWTOR success linked to Tera's somehow?No but hypocricy of some people is.
All of the data shows it is following the same trend as nearly every mmo released in recent years. The major difference is there are significantly more people involved in the population drop - but it appears to be the same percentage of drop off as other mmos. What I mean is that there are millions who tried so there are hundreds of thousands leaving, where a game like rift for example had hundreds of thousands try and thousands left. Personally, because of the number of box sales and numbers of initial subs compared to other recently released games, I would call SW a success too. Rift called itself a success with far less population but a nearly identical percentage drop after release. Now which would you call success, a game with a 30% retention rate which has 200,000 subs or a game with a 30% retention rate with 1,000,000 subs? In this mmo market, it is a success.
You see the retention rate as a failure, and that is opinion, not a fact. I see this as a normal trend - that is a fact.
I'll go one further. I bought it and have unsubbed = unsuccessful.
The most honest posts I've seen.
Here, we have their opinion of the game, but haven't extrapolated their opinion to 'prove' macro trends in the mmo industry.
I'm not a huge fan of SWToR. I think it could have been better. But the game sold well. There are hundreds of thousands playing it, and its retention rate seems to be similar to other recent releases. In this mmo market, the game is a success.
In my opinion, it is so-so, but I'm not going to be so myopic to think my opinion is synonomous with industry success.
I'll go one further. I bought it, enjoy it, and am still subbed = successful
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
I'll go one further yet. Played beta, didn't like it. Ended up buying it in January for research purposes (part of my work). Had a love/hate relationship with it in which I canceled my sub. But then I resubbed in February, and am having a blast finally when I realized it was the best game out there = success.
So basically, while you do not like my feelings on this game or my intrepretation of what I am seeing, you can not actually disagree with the fact that I am right. Thanks for the backup.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
On top of that, BioWare increased the servers capabilities after launch thus completely screwing up this type of measurement capabilities.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
No we definately should not, you gotta put on your BS blinders when sifting through some article directly from any company. They are going to show us the fluffy side of things every time.
I'd want them to link their forums in one of their articles in these meetings. Then let the investorts sit there and read some of the stuff, and then play...
or even play and then read the forums and decide if the people are just bullshitting or what. I'd doubt they'd care, in fact I'm sure they wouldn't its all about the dollar to these folks.
Entertaining nonetheless..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
the game, through the pr filter, is an MMO and as such never finished and everyone in 'the team' is hard at work to make a great game even better..
if you want to know the watermark, look for server merges, extended free demos, shutdown of service in peripheral locations and ongoing press buzz...
its way too early to call swtor a failure, but the fact that the media hype ebbed up so quickly and most relevant media are now drumming the guild wars wagon does give a hint.
"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. The situation is the same in regard to what we understand by the word, propaganda. The purpose of propaganda is not the personal instruction of the individual, but rather to attract public attention to certain things, the importance of which can be brought home to the masses only by this means.
Here the art of propaganda consists in putting a matter so clearly and forcibly before the minds of the people as to create a general conviction regarding the reality of a certain fact, the necessity of certain things and the just character of something that is essential. But as this art is not an end in itself and because its purpose must be exactly that of the advertisement poster, to attract the attention of the masses and not by any means to dispense individual instructions to those who already have an educated opinion on things or who wish to form such an opinion on grounds of objective study--because that is not the purpose of propaganda, it must appeal to the feelings of the public rather than to their reasoning powers.
All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. Thus its purely intellectual level will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach. When there is question of bringing great masses within the circle of its influence, then too much attention cannot be paid to the necessity of avoiding a high level, which presupposes a relatively high degree of intelligence among the public.
The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the masses.
That it is a mistake to organize the direct propaganda as if it were a manifold system of scientific instruction. The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. If this principle be forgotten and if an attempt be made to be abstract and general, the propaganda will turn out ineffective; for the public will not be able to digest or retain what is offered to them in this way. Therefore, the greater the scope of the message that has to be presented, the more necessary it is for the propaganda to discover that plan of action which is psychologically the most efficient.
The worst of all was that our people did not understand the very first condition which has to be fulfilled in every kind of propaganda; namely, a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with. What, for example, should we say of a poster which purported to advertise some new brand of soap by insisting on the excellent qualities of the competitive brands? We should naturally shake our heads. Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side.
The great majority is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood. Its notions are never partly this and partly that.
It is not the purpose of propaganda to create a series of alterations in sentiment with a view to pleasing these blase gentry. Its chief function is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time in order that they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on the memory of the crowd.
Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula. In this way alone can propaganda be consistent and dynamic in its effects."
*cough* ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
you are the one looking ignorant currently. While Solid numbers cannot be found, measuring server load still gives all the information you need to see the game is declining. If the first month was at 500 which means very heavy to full. and each subsequent month it drops which now it barely tips into heavy above standard , most of the time being light. It shows a SEVERE population decline, however the actual numbers elude us, mostly because EA will not release them and lose their investors. it is a sad existence for a company to have to lie to keep its money, as we have all seen before it will only end badly.
have a good long look for yourself. http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/totals
we have seen it all on our servers, my server Juyo was full in the first month mostly. now it can barely break standard. Most servers have become virtual ghost towns, Guilds have had to merge just to be able to see content because everyone is leaving. If you actually paid attention while you played the game(assuming you do play it) you would see it for yourself, There are only 4-5 servers who maintain populations all the other ones have ghosts.
site is misleading. Those numbers aren't player population. The site has no idea what hard numbers exist. All they can measure is server load status. load status =/ population (nor the number of subs). Let me repeat that: load status DOES NOT equate to population, nor the number of subs.
The sooner people understand this, the sooner they'll stop looking ignorant.
you are the one looking ignorant currently. While Solid numbers cannot be found, measuring server load still gives all the information you need to see the game is declining. If the first month was at 500 which means very heavy to full. and each subsequent month it drops which now it barely tips into heavy above standard , most of the time being light. It shows a SEVERE population decline, however the actual numbers elude us, mostly because EA will not release them and lose their investors. it is a sad existence for a company to have to lie to keep its money, as we have all seen before it will only end badly.
have a good long look for yourself. http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/totals
Actually, he's right: server status differs per server bc they used variable player caps, meaning that a server can have status light with 850 players online while another can have status standard with 650, 1 server can register as standard with 2100 players online while another can report heavy with 1850. Which makes treating the status of all servers equal isn't really a good method statistically. But sure, for a very rough estimation, it's safe to say that the numbers aren't increasing, obviously. As for not releasing the actual numbers, eh, they did that at the last conference meeting, what more do you expect? Have you seen other game companies release their numbers by any chance on a regular base? I still haven't heard anything of Trion regarding Rift except when they reached the 1 million accumulated sales, TERA I've no idea how many Korean subs they might have nor Aion, and Blizzard only started reporting sub numbers the past year after a 2 year gap when they stopped reporting NA/EU sub numbers individually. So... -_-Where did you get this information?
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Source = Mein Kampf: Since you didn't say.
I know you weren't trying to pass it off as your own cause it's quoted. Just curious where you took it from.
You win ... a cake!
Well I am historian. Yeah I have a real university degree in it. Believe it! And Third Reich was my speciality. You can nowadays just google for it, btw.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
they do not use variable player caps, all servers are set at the same caps, if not it would yet again be a lie as to the server really wouldnt be light or standard or heavy etc, it would only be a visual lie. Regardless of this, The fact that the server populations were at a massive high in the first month, and now in the second month and beyond have dipped below half, still shows that the game is in decline, which was what my links were meant to show. No one needs the real numbers because the broad form tracking of server load is so massive in disparity that the decline cannot be argued.