Or, considering there are a finite amount of MMOs available and perhaps a handful that would fit the said criteria, the best analogy would be:
Just because i don't fancy the pick of those 4 or 5 women stood at the bar with rectums for faces and barely intelligible English, doesn't mean i am going 'fruity'
/this
You choose the lesser of all the evils.
Themeparkers do the same thing... For example... one person may say "I really dont like the panda's but its the best game out there out of the lot."
It has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result.
If you try one pasta dish at one restaurant and don't like it, and then try a different pasta dish at a different restaurant and don't like it, and keep doing this for a while, then at some point, the reasonable thing to do is to give up and accept that you just don't like pasta.
It's not 100% proof that there will never be a pasta dish that you like. But eventually it becomes highly probable that you'd have a better chance of finding something that you like by trying a different type of food. Maybe you should try burritos and see if you like them better.
So it is with sandboxes. If you try one sandbox game and don't like it, fine. Maybe it was just a bad game, or did some things you disliked. Maybe you'd like some other sandbox game better. But if you've tried all the sandbox games out and didn't like any of them, then maybe you should consider giving up on sandboxes and playing some other games that aren't sandboxes.
Look I'm tired of analogies, you are wrong, and everyone is telling you so.
Name a non buggy sand box game?
Can't?
Ok so you are saying that all sand box players should endure the buggy horrible MESS that is sandbox games right now?
THERE ARE NO COMPLETED SANDBOX GAMES! They're all broken indy pieces of crap! Saying otherwise is down right lying to yourself.
The reason no one who likes sandboxes likes current ones is because .... drum roll please.... THEY SUCK!
And again I'd like to point out that Eve isn't a fantasy game, so if the only qualification is not buggy then fine, but what if you don't like space games and want a fantasy sand box?
There are no fantasy sand box games that aren't bug ridden pieces of filth.
sorry to say.
And don't get me wrong Eve seems fun and all but most of us are fantasy fans.
Eve is a decent game - just not my cup of tea. I've tried it a few times and just end up getting bored.
I enjoyed PotBS much more, though I realize I'm in the minority there.
A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
Unfortunately, Quizzical, they aren't really good.
All the sandboxes* I know of are shit. The one that's least shit is probably EVE. Others have huge problems that run the gamut of bugs to incompetent developers.
Maybe I'm biased, but I don't give 'bonus points' or leeway to indie dev teams, especially those who decide to charge the staple $15 a month for a game with less than half the content and polish of its competitors. At the end of the day, I'm paying these guys, and if there's a better game I can play for the same price, should I still stick with the worse game just because the team is indie?
*I think all games are pretty bad, so don't take this as offensive.
The reason socialism has never truely worked is because it has only ever been implemented by governments looking to exploit the facets of socialism that furthered their agenda of power and control. At any rate, the whole analogy is flawed because the variables involved in government classifications are distinctly different from the ones involved in developing and playing games (as if that needed to be said).
You're view of the world seems to be that if something doesn't or hasn't existed before, then it never will. This is not actually the case.
You can like socialism or not. That's not the point of this thread, and I'm trying not to turn this into a political argument.
But if socialism is to be implemented at all, then it will inevitably have to be implemented by governments. And seeing to further their agenta of power and control is what governments do. If that's enough to ruin the implementation of socialism, then the problem is socialism. In this case the problem is the entire governmental system, not the specifics therein.
Or to take another example, if you would like grouping, except that you don't like grouping with people because people are jerks, then you don't like grouping, period.
I neither like or dislike it. I was just trying to clarify some misinformation. An idea is not the composition of attempts so far, otherwise we would still be sleeping in piles of dirt.
Eve is a decent game - just not my cup of tea. I've tried it a few times and just end up getting bored.
I enjoyed PotBS much more, though I realize I'm in the minority there.
A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
This.
For sanboxes: there is basically EvE, a few games that very old and not really developed anymore, and a few indie games that can be charitably described as "not AAA". (Or even worth playing for the most part). EvE is a good game, it just does not appeal to some of us.
That's it: Eve and a bunch of old/indie crap.
If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
Originally posted by xDayx Originally posted by Vegetto Or, considering there are a finite amount of MMOs available and perhaps a handful that would fit the said criteria, the best analogy would be: Just because i don't fancy the pick of those 4 or 5 women stood at the bar with rectums for faces and barely intelligible English, doesn't mean i am going 'fruity'
/this You choose the lesser of all the evils. Themeparkers do the same thing... For example... one person may say "I really dont like the panda's but its the best game out there out of the lot."
Yeh, i spent years going for the 'best of a bad bunch' in both women and games. In the end, i said to myself that i can't do this anymore, as it means my own standards are slipping.
As such, the in-flow of both are less frequent, but at least i can tell my mates about them when they do appear now
And again I'd like to point out that Eve isn't a fantasy game, so if the only qualification is not buggy then fine, but what if you don't like space games and want a fantasy sand box?
There are no fantasy sand box games that aren't bug ridden pieces of filth.
sorry to say.
And don't get me wrong Eve seems fun and all but most of us are fantasy fans.
See, I thought we were talking about sandbox games in general not just the fantasy genre. I dunno what this heavy focus on one genre of MMORPGs is all about.
Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by fadis Eve is a decent game - just not my cup of tea. I've tried it a few times and just end up getting bored. I enjoyed PotBS much more, though I realize I'm in the minority there. A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
This. For sanboxes: there is basically EvE, a few games that very old and not really developed anymore, and a few indie games that can be charitably described as "not AAA". (Or even worth playing for the most part). EvE is a good game, it just does not appeal to some of us. That's it: Eve and a bunch of old/indie crap. If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
Aye. It's just a shame that EvE is both very focussed in one area and very top heavy in terms of gameplay, i.e. all the 'good stuff' happens at a very high levelm, socially and economically speaking. Which in turn causes all the flamewars between players who have tried the game and players who have been playing for 8 years, who don't understand why they aren't doing the same things as them - because they can't access it.
I'm running out of ideas, other than to marry a Korean for her Social Security Number for ArcheAge.
If someone comes to me and tells me that they love sandbox MMOs but they can't think of even one sandbox MMO they liked then they are NOT a sandbox fan. How can you be a fan of sandboxes if you never liked a single sandbox game.
Or are you just preaching about some idea which you want to happen but has never happened. Cause I can do that as well. I want a full 3D MMO where I can see through the eyes of my character but without seeing the screen. It should be fully immersive and there should be no difference between it and real life in terms of believability.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I have played all the sandbox mmos from Realm Online from 96 to MO and have to say they all had good and bad in them. To me a game isnt about fighting each other like in DF and MO or being stuck in a ship EVE or wondering around in a Post Apoc area looking form scraps to make gear fun. And I do not find sailing around in a boat looking for treasure all that fun ethier but if you could mix it all together maybe then it would be fun.
To me if it was a fantasy game with a huge world not DF or MO size but UO size with no quests whats so ever where the players decide what they want to do with no instances or raids or battle grounds but just a huge massive world where you can choose from any of the citys in the game to be from then it would be my style and loose this lvl crap to. If I got to be lvl 500 to wear something I better be god like or its just not worth it. I can't even stand to play most mmorpg games cause they are to much questing or just to much grind do a simple skill system say like they have in Elderscrolls games huge world like UO and have mounts land air a sea ones plus boats and air ships and it would be awsome. And dont point me to Arch Age played it before it was called something else but yeah it was great but that version had not eploration in it. Thats what I want one where I make my own Adventures.
Vangaurd was good but could of been so much more if they left out the lvls and made it a ture open world game where I can go anywhere and explore and not be one shot in the starter areas. Well at launch at least its changed alot sense then but I dont like lvls cause a character developes but not like some MMORPG's no you become a god but can get onehit from a mob and die sorry make me and adventurer and I am all for it. The reasons I dont play a Sandbox now is none are fun or I played them to much to have fun in them anymore.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Eve is a decent game - just not my cup of tea. I've tried it a few times and just end up getting bored.
I enjoyed PotBS much more, though I realize I'm in the minority there.
A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
This.
For sanboxes: there is basically EvE, a few games that very old and not really developed anymore, and a few indie games that can be charitably described as "not AAA". (Or even worth playing for the most part). EvE is a good game, it just does not appeal to some of us.
That's it: Eve and a bunch of old/indie crap.
If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
Aye. It's just a shame that EvE is both very focussed in one area and very top heavy in terms of gameplay, i.e. all the 'good stuff' happens at a very high levelm, socially and economically speaking. Which in turn causes all the flamewars between players who have tried the game and players who have been playing for 8 years, who don't understand why they aren't doing the same things as them - because they can't access it.
I'm running out of ideas, other than to marry a Korean for her Social Security Number for ArcheAge.
To be perfectly honest I think the top heaviness in EvE is intentional and keeps the population of the end game (nullsec alliance pvp) down for the good of the game. Even being top heavy, in major battles you literally have hundreds (more rarely thousands) of players streaming into a single area to contest territorial control. In the past this has caused the server to go down on a few occasions. Keeping the end game population from becoming too much of a burden is generally a good idea for server stability since it is a single shard. Because CCP places no limits on how many players you can bring into an area and warring sides generally want to do as much as they can to 'win,' a slow growing population is actually preferred.
Also the ones that start from scratch amid a high population of older players but have the patience to still sit thru the grind and the bullshit and work their way up the food chain are generally the kind of committed players you want joining and fighting alongside your alliance in end game pvp.
Thats easy its called imagination try it sometime. Somepeople do this in pen and paper games the use this or when they read a book but in this new time we live in everythings 3D techno and nothing else but if a company could give me a mmorpg with FP view and a good combat system and not hot bars I would be happy.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
I've found a couple sandbox games I like, but SWG is gone now and APB was ruined by cheaters. Therefore this thread does not apply to me as I obviously love sandbox. I'm hoping AAA sandbox title comes out one of these days.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
You can extend that to MMOS in general, this community has a vocal group of people who haven't worked it out yet. It's not that mmo's suck these days, it's they like the IDEA of mmos but don't actually like playing them.
If you like any of the current "sand box" games and start threads about it... you aren't an MMORPG sandbox fan...
Some people think the current games are all crap. Their opinion would be as valid as yours.
I'm not taking sides on this... I am simply saying.. your opinion has no greater validity than those you don't agree with.
Its the same core arguement from either side actually.
"This is my opinion and if you have a different opinion... you're wrong"
People seem to miss out on the fact that Subjective and Objective don't mean the same thing. Along with someones opinion is 100% fact for them... regardless of what you think they should think.
*note*
I think it could also be argued that there are very few sandbox multi player games.. Second Life would be a Sandbox because the community can create all the content. There are a few games with a similar structure.
Most MMO's that are labeled as "sandbox" (EvE, UO, SWG etc) have almost no "sand box" elements.... When a kid makes a sand castle in their sandbox (sandpile etc) they are not playing with pre-created content. They are making the things they imagine... or finding what the cat left but that's another story.
Some as you can see fit into several categories. What the majority of people who complain on this site and others want doesn't fit into any of these catagories. They want a AAA quality subscription based game with equal parts combat/crafting/world building without any Item Shop and without forced PvP/item loss. No such game exists. Just because they are disgruntled with the current crop of Sandbox games doesn't magically make them not Sandbox fans. They just want more from their Sandbox experience than what is currently available.
If you like any of the current "sand box" games and start threads about it... you aren't an MMORPG sandbox fan...
Some people think the current games are all crap. Their opinion would be as valid as yours.
I'm not taking sides on this... I am simply saying.. your opinion has no greater validity than those you don't agree with.
Its the same core arguement from either side actually.
"This is my opinion and if you have a different opinion... you're wrong"
People seem to miss out on the fact that Subjective and Objective don't mean the same thing. Along with someones opinion is 100% fact for them... regardless of what you think they should think.
there is a difference between "everything is crap" and "nothing is to my liking"
A lot of people here must be one of these Observer guys since they know every outcome of every possible sandbox game that will ever be released.
It has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result.
If you try one pasta dish at one restaurant and don't like it, and then try a different pasta dish at a different restaurant and don't like it, and keep doing this for a while, then at some point, the reasonable thing to do is to give up and accept that you just don't like pasta.
It's not 100% proof that there will never be a pasta dish that you like. But eventually it becomes highly probable that you'd have a better chance of finding something that you like by trying a different type of food. Maybe you should try burritos and see if you like them better.
So it is with sandboxes. If you try one sandbox game and don't like it, fine. Maybe it was just a bad game, or did some things you disliked. Maybe you'd like some other sandbox game better. But if you've tried all the sandbox games out and didn't like any of them, then maybe you should consider giving up on sandboxes and playing some other games that aren't sandboxes.
Probability and logic are not interchangeable. The probability that you will like pasta might be low, but that does not mean you will never find pasta that you like... ahhh...!
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
Ah, the self appointed King of Sandbox arrises...
Who are you to tell me what I'm a fan of or what I'm not a fan of?
There isn't a single AAA MMORPG sandbox other than EVE right now, and some would debate that. I do not like sci-fi gaming environments. I wan't a AAA fantasy MMORPG sandbox to play, and I want it done right. Just because I do not find games that you like entertaining, does not mean that I am not a fan of sandboxes. It means there aren't any out there that I'd like to devote time to.
I feel that you are doing much worse in this thread than what sandbox fans do in others. Not the sandbox fans that are stuck with the old-school mentaility. I'm talking about the ones that actually want to embrace some change in the industry. If you are okay with sub-par MMO's, then good for you. Don't get on us for wanting some evolution and advancement in our games. That doesn't even make sense.
Ok so you are saying that all sand box players should endure the buggy horrible MESS that is sandbox games right now?
THERE ARE NO COMPLETED SANDBOX GAMES! They're all broken indy pieces of crap! Saying otherwise is down right lying to yourself.
If you mean 100% bug-free, then I can't name any bug-free theme park games, either.
But Uncharted Waters Online and Puzzle Pirates are both pretty polished, the latter perhaps more so than the former. But they're both less buggy than most theme park games listed on this site, for that matter.
As for no completed sandbox games, that's perhaps true in the sense that there are no completed MMORPGs, period. There's always more stuff to do in future updates. But if that's a game-breaking problem for you, then you don't like MMORPGs, period.
A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
So what you want is not merely a sandbox, but a specific flavor of sandbox that cannot exist. Things that seem magical at first eventually seem far more mundane once you get used to them.
If I say that I like airplanes, but really only like planes that can travel faster than light, then I don't actually like airplanes.
If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
Sure, a lot of sandbox games were made by indie developers. But since when does Tecmo-Koei fit that label? Isn't 30 years of game development experience (on both the Tecmo and Koei sides if you trace each back to before the merger) and several hundred million dollars in annual revenue enough to qualify them as a major developer, not just some random indie developer?
Comments
/this
You choose the lesser of all the evils.
Themeparkers do the same thing... For example... one person may say "I really dont like the panda's but its the best game out there out of the lot."
Eve...
And again I'd like to point out that Eve isn't a fantasy game, so if the only qualification is not buggy then fine, but what if you don't like space games and want a fantasy sand box?
There are no fantasy sand box games that aren't bug ridden pieces of filth.
sorry to say.
And don't get me wrong Eve seems fun and all but most of us are fantasy fans.
Eve is a decent game - just not my cup of tea. I've tried it a few times and just end up getting bored.
I enjoyed PotBS much more, though I realize I'm in the minority there.
A lot of us just want a AAA sandbox... one where a development team spends all their time creating features and a living/breathing world... vs. quests and regular/heroic/superheroic instances.
Unfortunately, Quizzical, they aren't really good.
All the sandboxes* I know of are shit. The one that's least shit is probably EVE. Others have huge problems that run the gamut of bugs to incompetent developers.
Maybe I'm biased, but I don't give 'bonus points' or leeway to indie dev teams, especially those who decide to charge the staple $15 a month for a game with less than half the content and polish of its competitors. At the end of the day, I'm paying these guys, and if there's a better game I can play for the same price, should I still stick with the worse game just because the team is indie?
*I think all games are pretty bad, so don't take this as offensive.
I neither like or dislike it. I was just trying to clarify some misinformation. An idea is not the composition of attempts so far, otherwise we would still be sleeping in piles of dirt.
This.
For sanboxes: there is basically EvE, a few games that very old and not really developed anymore, and a few indie games that can be charitably described as "not AAA". (Or even worth playing for the most part). EvE is a good game, it just does not appeal to some of us.
That's it: Eve and a bunch of old/indie crap.
If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
You choose the lesser of all the evils.
Themeparkers do the same thing... For example... one person may say "I really dont like the panda's but its the best game out there out of the lot."
Yeh, i spent years going for the 'best of a bad bunch' in both women and games. In the end, i said to myself that i can't do this anymore, as it means my own standards are slipping.
As such, the in-flow of both are less frequent, but at least i can tell my mates about them when they do appear now
See, I thought we were talking about sandbox games in general not just the fantasy genre. I dunno what this heavy focus on one genre of MMORPGs is all about.
For sanboxes: there is basically EvE, a few games that very old and not really developed anymore, and a few indie games that can be charitably described as "not AAA". (Or even worth playing for the most part). EvE is a good game, it just does not appeal to some of us.
That's it: Eve and a bunch of old/indie crap.
If a solidly developed sandbox game would come along (and it hasn't since the NGE) it would do very well.
Aye. It's just a shame that EvE is both very focussed in one area and very top heavy in terms of gameplay, i.e. all the 'good stuff' happens at a very high levelm, socially and economically speaking. Which in turn causes all the flamewars between players who have tried the game and players who have been playing for 8 years, who don't understand why they aren't doing the same things as them - because they can't access it.
I'm running out of ideas, other than to marry a Korean for her Social Security Number for ArcheAge.
If someone comes to me and tells me that they love sandbox MMOs but they can't think of even one sandbox MMO they liked then they are NOT a sandbox fan. How can you be a fan of sandboxes if you never liked a single sandbox game.
Or are you just preaching about some idea which you want to happen but has never happened. Cause I can do that as well. I want a full 3D MMO where I can see through the eyes of my character but without seeing the screen. It should be fully immersive and there should be no difference between it and real life in terms of believability.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I have played all the sandbox mmos from Realm Online from 96 to MO and have to say they all had good and bad in them. To me a game isnt about fighting each other like in DF and MO or being stuck in a ship EVE or wondering around in a Post Apoc area looking form scraps to make gear fun. And I do not find sailing around in a boat looking for treasure all that fun ethier but if you could mix it all together maybe then it would be fun.
To me if it was a fantasy game with a huge world not DF or MO size but UO size with no quests whats so ever where the players decide what they want to do with no instances or raids or battle grounds but just a huge massive world where you can choose from any of the citys in the game to be from then it would be my style and loose this lvl crap to. If I got to be lvl 500 to wear something I better be god like or its just not worth it. I can't even stand to play most mmorpg games cause they are to much questing or just to much grind do a simple skill system say like they have in Elderscrolls games huge world like UO and have mounts land air a sea ones plus boats and air ships and it would be awsome. And dont point me to Arch Age played it before it was called something else but yeah it was great but that version had not eploration in it. Thats what I want one where I make my own Adventures.
Vangaurd was good but could of been so much more if they left out the lvls and made it a ture open world game where I can go anywhere and explore and not be one shot in the starter areas. Well at launch at least its changed alot sense then but I dont like lvls cause a character developes but not like some MMORPG's no you become a god but can get onehit from a mob and die sorry make me and adventurer and I am all for it. The reasons I dont play a Sandbox now is none are fun or I played them to much to have fun in them anymore.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
To be perfectly honest I think the top heaviness in EvE is intentional and keeps the population of the end game (nullsec alliance pvp) down for the good of the game. Even being top heavy, in major battles you literally have hundreds (more rarely thousands) of players streaming into a single area to contest territorial control. In the past this has caused the server to go down on a few occasions. Keeping the end game population from becoming too much of a burden is generally a good idea for server stability since it is a single shard. Because CCP places no limits on how many players you can bring into an area and warring sides generally want to do as much as they can to 'win,' a slow growing population is actually preferred.
Also the ones that start from scratch amid a high population of older players but have the patience to still sit thru the grind and the bullshit and work their way up the food chain are generally the kind of committed players you want joining and fighting alongside your alliance in end game pvp.
Thats easy its called imagination try it sometime. Somepeople do this in pen and paper games the use this or when they read a book but in this new time we live in everythings 3D techno and nothing else but if a company could give me a mmorpg with FP view and a good combat system and not hot bars I would be happy.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
I've found a couple sandbox games I like, but SWG is gone now and APB was ruined by cheaters. Therefore this thread does not apply to me as I obviously love sandbox. I'm hoping AAA sandbox title comes out one of these days.
You can extend that to MMOS in general, this community has a vocal group of people who haven't worked it out yet. It's not that mmo's suck these days, it's they like the IDEA of mmos but don't actually like playing them.
If you like any of the current "sand box" games and start threads about it... you aren't an MMORPG sandbox fan...
Some people think the current games are all crap. Their opinion would be as valid as yours.
I'm not taking sides on this... I am simply saying.. your opinion has no greater validity than those you don't agree with.
Its the same core arguement from either side actually.
"This is my opinion and if you have a different opinion... you're wrong"
People seem to miss out on the fact that Subjective and Objective don't mean the same thing. Along with someones opinion is 100% fact for them... regardless of what you think they should think.
*note*
I think it could also be argued that there are very few sandbox multi player games.. Second Life would be a Sandbox because the community can create all the content. There are a few games with a similar structure.
Most MMO's that are labeled as "sandbox" (EvE, UO, SWG etc) have almost no "sand box" elements.... When a kid makes a sand castle in their sandbox (sandpile etc) they are not playing with pre-created content. They are making the things they imagine... or finding what the cat left but that's another story.
The main problem is this... All current sandboxes fit nicely into 5 categories:
Bug Ridden Unfinished Garbage. (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Fallen Earth, etc...)
Item Shop F2P Asian Grindfests. (Voyage Century Online, Uncharted Waters Online, etc...)
FFA PvP w/Full Loot. (Darkfall, EVE, Mortal Online, etc...)
Boring as hell to actually play. (A Tale in the Desert)
Seriously Outdated. (Ultima Online, Starquest Online, etc...)
Some as you can see fit into several categories. What the majority of people who complain on this site and others want doesn't fit into any of these catagories. They want a AAA quality subscription based game with equal parts combat/crafting/world building without any Item Shop and without forced PvP/item loss. No such game exists. Just because they are disgruntled with the current crop of Sandbox games doesn't magically make them not Sandbox fans. They just want more from their Sandbox experience than what is currently available.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
there is a difference between "everything is crap" and "nothing is to my liking"
Probability and logic are not interchangeable. The probability that you will like pasta might be low, but that does not mean you will never find pasta that you like... ahhh...!
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Ah, the self appointed King of Sandbox arrises...
Who are you to tell me what I'm a fan of or what I'm not a fan of?
There isn't a single AAA MMORPG sandbox other than EVE right now, and some would debate that. I do not like sci-fi gaming environments. I wan't a AAA fantasy MMORPG sandbox to play, and I want it done right. Just because I do not find games that you like entertaining, does not mean that I am not a fan of sandboxes. It means there aren't any out there that I'd like to devote time to.
I feel that you are doing much worse in this thread than what sandbox fans do in others. Not the sandbox fans that are stuck with the old-school mentaility. I'm talking about the ones that actually want to embrace some change in the industry. If you are okay with sub-par MMO's, then good for you. Don't get on us for wanting some evolution and advancement in our games. That doesn't even make sense.
If you mean 100% bug-free, then I can't name any bug-free theme park games, either.
But Uncharted Waters Online and Puzzle Pirates are both pretty polished, the latter perhaps more so than the former. But they're both less buggy than most theme park games listed on this site, for that matter.
As for no completed sandbox games, that's perhaps true in the sense that there are no completed MMORPGs, period. There's always more stuff to do in future updates. But if that's a game-breaking problem for you, then you don't like MMORPGs, period.
So what you want is not merely a sandbox, but a specific flavor of sandbox that cannot exist. Things that seem magical at first eventually seem far more mundane once you get used to them.
If I say that I like airplanes, but really only like planes that can travel faster than light, then I don't actually like airplanes.
Yeah, I do like my games to look as if they have been made in the past five years with designers that actually have legitimate skill in the industry.
I would go back to UO if I wasn't a graphics fan.
Wait, why aren't we all playing PONG right now?
Sure, a lot of sandbox games were made by indie developers. But since when does Tecmo-Koei fit that label? Isn't 30 years of game development experience (on both the Tecmo and Koei sides if you trace each back to before the merger) and several hundred million dollars in annual revenue enough to qualify them as a major developer, not just some random indie developer?