You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay.
UWO has graphics about on par with GW1, isn't very buggy (the most notable glitches are mistranslations of proper nouns), doesn't have that many broken game mechanics (though there are some problems caused by releasing expansions out of order, but that will be fixed when they release El Oriente), and is very highly innovative. It's set roughly in the 1520s, so it missed the medieval era by a few decades.
If you don't like it, fine. But it's probably for reasons not on your list.
And that's kind of what I'm getting at in this thread. Some people say they want a sandbox game. But what they really want is a sandbox game that also satisfies a long list of other criteria, some of which are very peculiar. Some people have a list of things they want that is so restrictive that even if there were a hundred really good sandbox MMORPGs on the market, most likely none would satisfy their entire list. And if they'd reject all hundred on that basis, then they'd probably find other excuses to dislike a sandbox game that did meet all of their criteria. In which case, I'd say that such people don't like sandbox games. Hence this thread.
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
This post actually made me look up uncharted waters, then I found out it was pay2win and was immediately turn off, mission accomplished?
I guess you didn't look very hard, then. I've spent $10, total, in five months. And there's nothing more in the item mall that is of much interest to me.
I dunno, read another post in this forum that said you could buy ships that couldn't be attacked by pirates or speed boosts that let your cash shop heavy cruiser catch up to a light weight frigate. If so, that's pretty much the definition of P2W even if you chose not to utilize it.
For $2/day, you can get a blue flag item that makes it so that you can't attack other ships, and can't be attacked by other ships. That does let you opt out of PVP, but it's not exactly going to help you gank other people, since you can't attack them, either. They're mainly for people who are paranoid, or for pirates who have good reason to fear that they'll be attacked anywhere they go.
Speed boosts can be useful. But it's not like you're going to constantly get ganked if you don't buy one. I've been attacked in PVP five times total in five months. That's only been attacked, not lost. In two of them, I ran away. In another two, I could have gotten away if I had been more prepared and not botched the situation because I was so surprised to be attacked by another player. And in the last one, I'm pretty sure that the player didn't use item mall stuff; at the very least, his ship wasn't an item mall ship.
So my total PVP losses over the course of five months of playing the game are about what I'll make in an hour or so of playing the game. And that's when I'm not especially trying to make money, even. That's an hour of sailing around exploring, while typing posts like this one.
Also, speed boosts don't necessarily let pirates catch you. They're only active outside of combat. If a pirate attacks you as soon as he's barely within range, you'll probably be able to run away easily. He has to pass you and get in front of you to have a good chance of not letting you run away. And if you see him coming, you can log off and leave the pirate chasing an open sea.
But, if you really think that the speed boost items are absolutely essential in order to play the game, then just buy them. Even if you also buy all the special shipbuilding permits that you have any use for, it still comes out to cheaper than a $15/month subscription.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
I can't find a single "graphical" mmo-rpg sandbox game that I like. Hows that? I don't want to have to go back to text based multiplayer online rpgs to get to play a good sandbox genre mmo-rpg. It isn't that I am not trying, it is that Developers won't design one that has the concepts, mechanics, rules what ever that I require that used to be common for the text based versions that came before the graphical versions.
Edit: Btw I don't require open world pvp to make a good sand box mmo-rpg just as an aside. Sure I would like open world pvp, but the game designers need to provide for the cause and effect mechanics for those who say become bandits. Local kingdoms, villages, cities what have you won't just put up with someone(s) killing people willy-nilly without hunting their asses down.
You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay.
UWO has graphics about on par with GW1, isn't very buggy (the most notable glitches are mistranslations of proper nouns), doesn't have that many broken game mechanics (though there are some problems caused by releasing expansions out of order, but that will be fixed when they release El Oriente), and is very highly innovative. It's set roughly in the 1520s, so it missed the medieval era by a few decades.
If you don't like it, fine. But it's probably for reasons not on your list.
And that's kind of what I'm getting at in this thread. Some people say they want a sandbox game. But what they really want is a sandbox game that also satisfies a long list of other criteria, some of which are very peculiar. Some people have a list of things they want that is so restrictive that even if there were a hundred really good sandbox MMORPGs on the market, most likely none would satisfy their entire list. And if they'd reject all hundred on that basis, then they'd probably find other excuses to dislike a sandbox game that did meet all of their criteria. In which case, I'd say that such people don't like sandbox games. Hence this thread.
its probably for reasons not on my list...........even though my list says it has to be a medevil setting.....which is so hard to do.........contradictory much? you act as if my list was so broad. you should probably stick to the tech forums bro.
You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay.
UWO has graphics about on par with GW1, isn't very buggy (the most notable glitches are mistranslations of proper nouns), doesn't have that many broken game mechanics (though there are some problems caused by releasing expansions out of order, but that will be fixed when they release El Oriente), and is very highly innovative. It's set roughly in the 1520s, so it missed the medieval era by a few decades.
If you don't like it, fine. But it's probably for reasons not on your list.
And that's kind of what I'm getting at in this thread. Some people say they want a sandbox game. But what they really want is a sandbox game that also satisfies a long list of other criteria, some of which are very peculiar. Some people have a list of things they want that is so restrictive that even if there were a hundred really good sandbox MMORPGs on the market, most likely none would satisfy their entire list. And if they'd reject all hundred on that basis, then they'd probably find other excuses to dislike a sandbox game that did meet all of their criteria. In which case, I'd say that such people don't like sandbox games. Hence this thread.
do you work for UWO? wow, i think i had the most respect for you out of anyone on this forum. way to blow it out of the water. UWO is absolutely retchid in my opinion. and yes i have played it.
I get what Quiz is mad though. With so many supposed sandboxes out there it can appear were being picky or selfish. That being said he needs to respect the fact so many people havent found the one they desire or the setting.
Everyone deserves fair representation in the mmorpg genre. Its what we all what after all. To have something we fit into. Ok deserve mite be a strong word. After all there are some genre styles which arent feasible.
I'm proud of being picky if I'm concerned with how I spend my hard earned money and valuable free time.
Just because I've long been looking for a good sandbox to call "home," doesn't mean I will resign myself and settle for a poorly made game. A badly made game is a badly made game, regardless of what gaming genre we're talking about.
EVE is nice but it isn't my cup of tea, i.e. losing your ship for good as well as everything aboard it. It it didn't have a total loss like that, I'd be playing EVE still.
As far as the other sandboxes, which are of low quality, I don't fork over my time and / or money for a low quality game, which is what the remainder are. It seems only underfunded, understaffed dev teams dare to even try a sandbox. Even the old classic MMORPGs that were sandboxes to start with are no longer sandboxes. They too have suffered some negative updates, which drove a bunch of the initial fans to begin with.
The way I see it now, the only viable, decent sandbox out there is EVE, and I have massive reservations about a single, but very huge gameplay aspect.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Did Quizzical (OP) ever give a LIST of these good sandbox games to which he's referring, by any chance? I didn't read the entire thread, so.....anyone able to copy/paste a quick recap?
I think it was uncharted waters online
That's ONE game. The title of the thread seems to imply there are many sandbox games from which to choose and SURELY be able to find one you like that is....a GOOD game. I could list some sandbox games here, but it wouldn't be a very long list and the only really GOOD one in MY opinion is ancient. (I listed it first.)
Ultima Online (a GOOD sandbox game)
Darkfall (NOT for me)
Fallen Earth (sandpark really, but a good game, imo)
EVE (boring as shit, I'm not a big PvP'er and this game became tediously boring for me....mining all the time and making stuff)
Uncharted Waters Online (I didn't know this was a sandbox)
Mortal Online (from what I've read it's more like Bugs Online, so never "went there")
Wurm Online (another good one, IF it's your taste)
Ryzom (wasn't to my liking)
Vanguard (sandpark/themebox, still a good game with too small a population for my taste)
Xsyon (incomplete)
Okay....I'm sure there must be other sandbox games. Someone please list more of them and educate me.
Hi I'm ozmono and I'm a MMORPG sandbox fan yet I cannot find a single one I like.
I've played most of them and even enjoyed a few for awhile but they end up ceasing to entertain me and leave me wanting more. For me it's not so much that there aren't any good sandbox games it's that they fall so short of what I consider to be there potential. Sometimes it's simply that sandbox games just don't get the big budget love MMORPGs get.. Take wurm for example, wurm was my favourite MMORPG for along time but so many aspects of the game are lacking (putting it nicely) in comparison to other games. Another good example is Wakfu(the game I'll be playing tomorrow) it like wurm has alot of great features but it fails to deliver as a whole. Wakfu still entertains me but I purposely held out on beta testing because I knew I'd be burned out before launch if I didn't. I don't expect it to entertain me for long once it launches.
Sometimes I think it's the dependence on the community that ruins them like I did with games like MO and darkfall with the zerg attacks and griefing, other times I think it's the lack of polish or budget constraints but ultimately I think it's because they open my mind to the future possibilities of fun virtual worlds but fail to produce an existing one as a whole and free of the basic faults.
You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay.
UWO has graphics about on par with GW1, isn't very buggy (the most notable glitches are mistranslations of proper nouns), doesn't have that many broken game mechanics (though there are some problems caused by releasing expansions out of order, but that will be fixed when they release El Oriente), and is very highly innovative. It's set roughly in the 1520s, so it missed the medieval era by a few decades.
If you don't like it, fine. But it's probably for reasons not on your list.
And that's kind of what I'm getting at in this thread. Some people say they want a sandbox game. But what they really want is a sandbox game that also satisfies a long list of other criteria, some of which are very peculiar. Some people have a list of things they want that is so restrictive that even if there were a hundred really good sandbox MMORPGs on the market, most likely none would satisfy their entire list. And if they'd reject all hundred on that basis, then they'd probably find other excuses to dislike a sandbox game that did meet all of their criteria. In which case, I'd say that such people don't like sandbox games. Hence this thread.
I think your logic is peculiar.
I think this thread is peculiar.
Why do you even care what any of us crazy sandbox lovers think anyways? The idea is simple. There aren't any good sandbox games out other than EVE. You can look at subscription numbers for an idea on what good is considered. There are more sandbox gamers not playing EVE, than there are playing EVE. There isn't a single good high fantasy sandbox MMORPG currently on the market. This doesn't mean that people like myself are not sandbox fans. It more likely is due to players like myself not wanting to spend money on an inferior product. The list of our likes doesn't need to get past three or four things, not one hundred as you claim. Modern graphics, UI, animations, server and network coding. Not one sandbox game employs that short list of must-haves. When one does, then we can bicker over lists of features that are, or are not feasible. Until then, your reasoning makes zero sense.
The idea is simple. There aren't any good sandbox games out other than EVE. You can look at subscription numbers for an idea on what good is considered.
Except that there are other good sandbox games, which is much of the point of this thread. And if you're only looking at subscription numbers, then you're implicitly saying that any non-subscription game can't be good.
Some games target a narrow niche. And no matter how good such a game is, it's not going to have a huge subscription base. For example, I'll concede that A Tale in the Desert isn't terribly polished. But what if it were? Do you think that style of game, with no combat at all, would be able to pull in millions of subscribers? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers, even? Certainly not without a huge marketing budget, and probably not even with a huge marketing budget, either.
The idea is simple. There aren't any good sandbox games out other than EVE. You can look at subscription numbers for an idea on what good is considered.
Except that there are other good sandbox games, which is much of the point of this thread. And if you're only looking at subscription numbers, then you're implicitly saying that any non-subscription game can't be good.
Some games target a narrow niche. And no matter how good such a game is, it's not going to have a huge subscription base. For example, I'll concede that A Tale in the Desert isn't terribly polished. But what if it were? Do you think that style of game, with no combat at all, would be able to pull in millions of subscribers? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers, even? Certainly not without a huge marketing budget, and probably not even with a huge marketing budget, either.
Yeah, some types of games have a hard time to get millions of subs even if they are done well.
But on the other hand are there plenty of singleplayer games with no violence that sold a lot, like "The Sims" and "Minecraft" so don´t count it out comnpletely.
The quality of sandbox games could be a lot better though. Most players actually don´t consider if a game is sandbox or not when they play it, they just want a fun game but if it is in a sad state it will turn away a lot of people.
I would go so far to say that if Wow were as unpolished asmost sandbox games are at launch it would never been a huge success.
Let´s hope WoDO, AA or whatever Bethesda/Zenimax is making is well coded.
But on the other hand are there plenty of singleplayer games with no violence that sold a lot, like "The Sims" and "Minecraft" so don´t count it out comnpletely.
It's not just the "no combat". It's also, "this is really complicated, and we're not going to explain how it works". And then there's the "mods won't ban players for anything short of bug exploitation, but other players can ban you".
Some features are simply niche features that most MMORPG players would stay away from. Think of permadeath, for example. Or perhaps free for all full loot PVP. Some feature sets could be implemented very, very well, but still not attract many players, simply because most players don't want those features. That doesn't mean the game is bad. It only means it's a niche game.
But on the other hand are there plenty of singleplayer games with no violence that sold a lot, like "The Sims" and "Minecraft" so don´t count it out comnpletely.
It's not just the "no combat". It's also, "this is really complicated, and we're not going to explain how it works". And then there's the "mods won't ban players for anything short of bug exploitation, but other players can ban you".
Some features are simply niche features that most MMORPG players would stay away from. Think of permadeath, for example. Or perhaps free for all full loot PVP. Some feature sets could be implemented very, very well, but still not attract many players, simply because most players don't want those features. That doesn't mean the game is bad. It only means it's a niche game.
Even so I think it's possible for a sandbox game to achieve mass success. I'm not saying it will happen but I think it's possible as there is no one “must have" sandbox feature by definition that makes the entire game only appeal to a very small audience. I think what loke666 was saying is that you shouldn't rule out the idea of a sandbox game being successful on mass because of this and I would have to agree. I'll also concede to you that no one MMO will capture the entire sandbox market no matter how good the game. That said I don't think it need to.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
I can't begin to explain how wrong you are... it's almost insane what you wrote there buddy.
Perhaps some of us expect more than any developer has yet to put out?
Perhaps some of us LOVE the ideas of several games yet they still do not cut it for our liking?
EVE - great game - only truly alive "world" - real economy - SHITTY COMBAT - CAN NEVER CATCH UP
If EVE had player skilled FPS style combat I'd drop everything and play it... however it does not. Otherwise EVE is the perfect game in most regards... personally I find the PVP being based around warp gates a little retarded.
Again you're wrong. I'm so sorry I'm not willing to compromise what I want out of a sandbox just to play one.
The idea is simple. There aren't any good sandbox games out other than EVE. You can look at subscription numbers for an idea on what good is considered.
Except that there are other good sandbox games, which is much of the point of this thread. And if you're only looking at subscription numbers, then you're implicitly saying that any non-subscription game can't be good.
Some games target a narrow niche. And no matter how good such a game is, it's not going to have a huge subscription base. For example, I'll concede that A Tale in the Desert isn't terribly polished. But what if it were? Do you think that style of game, with no combat at all, would be able to pull in millions of subscribers? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers, even? Certainly not without a huge marketing budget, and probably not even with a huge marketing budget, either.
The point of the thread sounded more like how you're smarter and better than others to me. I dont consider MO and DFO sandboxes. I am not playing a game with crappy 10 year old graphics or a game where all you do is craft. I am bored with Vangard, I have played every class and race to near max level. I am not interested in eve. Abuse me all you want but I consider myself a sandbox fan and I only see archeage on the horizon. I am not interested in debating the definition of sandbox because I really dont give a flying fig only that I cant find a single game that I like and am not bored with. Does this make you better than me? Grats but I am still not happy that so many MMO's just copy each other when so many of us will rape archeage if it ever comes to US/EU.
That's a little too much of a response for someone who doesn't care isn't it mate? A bit unfair too. Anyway if you don't care as you say than don't get so involved in the discussion. I'm actually of a similiar viewpoint regarding how you view sandbox games but I am willing to discuss it. If you don't give "a flying fig" like you say than simply walk away.
The one thing this thread really proves is there is a passion out there for sandboxes. No matter what, as long as people are demanding them, theres room for improvement in the genre. Then again what genre doesn't have room for improvement. That demand is good. It drives game companies. Thats my real qualm with Quiz's opinion. Why worry about people complaining about no sandboxes. When it just drives the whole genre
OP didn't even respond to me. Too good of a point for you to even try to argue?
There. I replied. Happy?
More seriously, I did reply earlier to your argument, even if I didn't quote you on it. Basically, the problem is that real games can't compete with nostalgia, and you only get to do something for the first time once.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
I can't begin to explain how wrong you are... it's almost insane what you wrote there buddy.
Perhaps some of us expect more than any developer has yet to put out?
Perhaps some of us LOVE the ideas of several games yet they still do not cut it for our liking?
EVE - great game - only truly alive "world" - real economy - SHITTY COMBAT - CAN NEVER CATCH UP
If EVE had player skilled FPS style combat I'd drop everything and play it... however it does not. Otherwise EVE is the perfect game in most regards... personally I find the PVP being based around warp gates a little retarded.
Again you're wrong. I'm so sorry I'm not willing to compromise what I want out of a sandbox just to play one.
Pretty sure you are the one who is wrong. You are just saying that there is one feature of Eve you don't like. You basically are strengthening the OP's point. Face it you don't like Sandboxes because they aren't exactly what you want. Just admit that you would find some other excuse not to play EvE if they added twitch combat.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
OP didn't even respond to me. Too good of a point for you to even try to argue?
There. I replied. Happy?
More seriously, I did reply earlier to your argument, even if I didn't quote you on it. Basically, the problem is that real games can't compete with nostalgia, and you only get to do something for the first time once.
Yeah - nostalgia argument again.
That's really something cause I often replay for example old single player games and still BG2 has much better dialogs, story , lore , attention to details, much more flexibility and options , etc and overall game design than f.e. DA2 or even DA:O even though they are same type of game of game.
+ much more examples like that.
Of course I can also find NEW great games and SOME of old games when I tried to replay them they well werent as good as I remembered them BUT not ALL.
Some very old games still beat many of new similar productions in everything but graphics cause they are not dumbed down, streamlined, etc
That about nostalgia.
Now about sandbox mmorpgs.
UO and SWG were AAA sandboxes peroid.
EvE managed to became AAA sandbox.
There were few hybrid or themeparks with sandbox elements that were AAA as well in past.
-----
Currently except EvE all other sandboxes are
a) indie
b) broken
c) old
d) indie , broken and old
Yeah I know that you very much like UWO and consider it as AAA title.
Well I don't and what It seems most other people don't as well.
Yes I've tried UWO.
Will not repeat why it and other current sandboxes (Tale in the Desert, MO, DFO , etc ) does not work for me ,cause that would be like repeating myself for 5th time and repating what many other peopel said for like 100 th time.
If you cannot see substantial diffrence between what was offered for sandbox players years ago and what is offered now - then guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Just to be clear - I am not interested in playing AGAIN some underfinanced , broken, deserted by players (looking at you DFO EU server !) , cash shop financed ,old or indie / low-budget (Salem , Wakfu) title. Yes I tried many of them.
Comments
UWO has graphics about on par with GW1, isn't very buggy (the most notable glitches are mistranslations of proper nouns), doesn't have that many broken game mechanics (though there are some problems caused by releasing expansions out of order, but that will be fixed when they release El Oriente), and is very highly innovative. It's set roughly in the 1520s, so it missed the medieval era by a few decades.
If you don't like it, fine. But it's probably for reasons not on your list.
And that's kind of what I'm getting at in this thread. Some people say they want a sandbox game. But what they really want is a sandbox game that also satisfies a long list of other criteria, some of which are very peculiar. Some people have a list of things they want that is so restrictive that even if there were a hundred really good sandbox MMORPGs on the market, most likely none would satisfy their entire list. And if they'd reject all hundred on that basis, then they'd probably find other excuses to dislike a sandbox game that did meet all of their criteria. In which case, I'd say that such people don't like sandbox games. Hence this thread.
For $2/day, you can get a blue flag item that makes it so that you can't attack other ships, and can't be attacked by other ships. That does let you opt out of PVP, but it's not exactly going to help you gank other people, since you can't attack them, either. They're mainly for people who are paranoid, or for pirates who have good reason to fear that they'll be attacked anywhere they go.
Speed boosts can be useful. But it's not like you're going to constantly get ganked if you don't buy one. I've been attacked in PVP five times total in five months. That's only been attacked, not lost. In two of them, I ran away. In another two, I could have gotten away if I had been more prepared and not botched the situation because I was so surprised to be attacked by another player. And in the last one, I'm pretty sure that the player didn't use item mall stuff; at the very least, his ship wasn't an item mall ship.
So my total PVP losses over the course of five months of playing the game are about what I'll make in an hour or so of playing the game. And that's when I'm not especially trying to make money, even. That's an hour of sailing around exploring, while typing posts like this one.
Also, speed boosts don't necessarily let pirates catch you. They're only active outside of combat. If a pirate attacks you as soon as he's barely within range, you'll probably be able to run away easily. He has to pass you and get in front of you to have a good chance of not letting you run away. And if you see him coming, you can log off and leave the pirate chasing an open sea.
But, if you really think that the speed boost items are absolutely essential in order to play the game, then just buy them. Even if you also buy all the special shipbuilding permits that you have any use for, it still comes out to cheaper than a $15/month subscription.
I can't find a single "graphical" mmo-rpg sandbox game that I like. Hows that? I don't want to have to go back to text based multiplayer online rpgs to get to play a good sandbox genre mmo-rpg. It isn't that I am not trying, it is that Developers won't design one that has the concepts, mechanics, rules what ever that I require that used to be common for the text based versions that came before the graphical versions.
Edit: Btw I don't require open world pvp to make a good sand box mmo-rpg just as an aside. Sure I would like open world pvp, but the game designers need to provide for the cause and effect mechanics for those who say become bandits. Local kingdoms, villages, cities what have you won't just put up with someone(s) killing people willy-nilly without hunting their asses down.
its probably for reasons not on my list...........even though my list says it has to be a medevil setting.....which is so hard to do.........contradictory much? you act as if my list was so broad. you should probably stick to the tech forums bro.
do you work for UWO? wow, i think i had the most respect for you out of anyone on this forum. way to blow it out of the water. UWO is absolutely retchid in my opinion. and yes i have played it.
I'm proud of being picky if I'm concerned with how I spend my hard earned money and valuable free time.
Just because I've long been looking for a good sandbox to call "home," doesn't mean I will resign myself and settle for a poorly made game. A badly made game is a badly made game, regardless of what gaming genre we're talking about.
EVE is nice but it isn't my cup of tea, i.e. losing your ship for good as well as everything aboard it. It it didn't have a total loss like that, I'd be playing EVE still.
As far as the other sandboxes, which are of low quality, I don't fork over my time and / or money for a low quality game, which is what the remainder are. It seems only underfunded, understaffed dev teams dare to even try a sandbox. Even the old classic MMORPGs that were sandboxes to start with are no longer sandboxes. They too have suffered some negative updates, which drove a bunch of the initial fans to begin with.
The way I see it now, the only viable, decent sandbox out there is EVE, and I have massive reservations about a single, but very huge gameplay aspect.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
That's ONE game. The title of the thread seems to imply there are many sandbox games from which to choose and SURELY be able to find one you like that is....a GOOD game. I could list some sandbox games here, but it wouldn't be a very long list and the only really GOOD one in MY opinion is ancient. (I listed it first.)
Ultima Online (a GOOD sandbox game)
Darkfall (NOT for me)
Fallen Earth (sandpark really, but a good game, imo)
EVE (boring as shit, I'm not a big PvP'er and this game became tediously boring for me....mining all the time and making stuff)
Uncharted Waters Online (I didn't know this was a sandbox)
Mortal Online (from what I've read it's more like Bugs Online, so never "went there")
Wurm Online (another good one, IF it's your taste)
Ryzom (wasn't to my liking)
Vanguard (sandpark/themebox, still a good game with too small a population for my taste)
Xsyon (incomplete)
Okay....I'm sure there must be other sandbox games. Someone please list more of them and educate me.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
No because they're all shit now.
I loved EVE but I'm bored of it now as it has been out 8 years and I loved SWG but SOE ruined it....
Everything else out there isn't AAA, it's generic, has graphics that are 15 years old and has no one playing.
My clan adn I are trickling back into Xsyon. The game is far from completed, but they have made some good progress.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Hi I'm ozmono and I'm a MMORPG sandbox fan yet I cannot find a single one I like.
I've played most of them and even enjoyed a few for awhile but they end up ceasing to entertain me and leave me wanting more. For me it's not so much that there aren't any good sandbox games it's that they fall so short of what I consider to be there potential. Sometimes it's simply that sandbox games just don't get the big budget love MMORPGs get.. Take wurm for example, wurm was my favourite MMORPG for along time but so many aspects of the game are lacking (putting it nicely) in comparison to other games. Another good example is Wakfu(the game I'll be playing tomorrow) it like wurm has alot of great features but it fails to deliver as a whole. Wakfu still entertains me but I purposely held out on beta testing because I knew I'd be burned out before launch if I didn't. I don't expect it to entertain me for long once it launches.
Sometimes I think it's the dependence on the community that ruins them like I did with games like MO and darkfall with the zerg attacks and griefing, other times I think it's the lack of polish or budget constraints but ultimately I think it's because they open my mind to the future possibilities of fun virtual worlds but fail to produce an existing one as a whole and free of the basic faults.
I think your logic is peculiar.
I think this thread is peculiar.
Why do you even care what any of us crazy sandbox lovers think anyways? The idea is simple. There aren't any good sandbox games out other than EVE. You can look at subscription numbers for an idea on what good is considered. There are more sandbox gamers not playing EVE, than there are playing EVE. There isn't a single good high fantasy sandbox MMORPG currently on the market. This doesn't mean that people like myself are not sandbox fans. It more likely is due to players like myself not wanting to spend money on an inferior product. The list of our likes doesn't need to get past three or four things, not one hundred as you claim. Modern graphics, UI, animations, server and network coding. Not one sandbox game employs that short list of must-haves. When one does, then we can bicker over lists of features that are, or are not feasible. Until then, your reasoning makes zero sense.
Except that there are other good sandbox games, which is much of the point of this thread. And if you're only looking at subscription numbers, then you're implicitly saying that any non-subscription game can't be good.
Some games target a narrow niche. And no matter how good such a game is, it's not going to have a huge subscription base. For example, I'll concede that A Tale in the Desert isn't terribly polished. But what if it were? Do you think that style of game, with no combat at all, would be able to pull in millions of subscribers? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers, even? Certainly not without a huge marketing budget, and probably not even with a huge marketing budget, either.
Yeah, some types of games have a hard time to get millions of subs even if they are done well.
But on the other hand are there plenty of singleplayer games with no violence that sold a lot, like "The Sims" and "Minecraft" so don´t count it out comnpletely.
The quality of sandbox games could be a lot better though. Most players actually don´t consider if a game is sandbox or not when they play it, they just want a fun game but if it is in a sad state it will turn away a lot of people.
I would go so far to say that if Wow were as unpolished asmost sandbox games are at launch it would never been a huge success.
Let´s hope WoDO, AA or whatever Bethesda/Zenimax is making is well coded.
It's not just the "no combat". It's also, "this is really complicated, and we're not going to explain how it works". And then there's the "mods won't ban players for anything short of bug exploitation, but other players can ban you".
Some features are simply niche features that most MMORPG players would stay away from. Think of permadeath, for example. Or perhaps free for all full loot PVP. Some feature sets could be implemented very, very well, but still not attract many players, simply because most players don't want those features. That doesn't mean the game is bad. It only means it's a niche game.
Even so I think it's possible for a sandbox game to achieve mass success. I'm not saying it will happen but I think it's possible as there is no one “must have" sandbox feature by definition that makes the entire game only appeal to a very small audience. I think what loke666 was saying is that you shouldn't rule out the idea of a sandbox game being successful on mass because of this and I would have to agree. I'll also concede to you that no one MMO will capture the entire sandbox market no matter how good the game. That said I don't think it need to.
I can't begin to explain how wrong you are... it's almost insane what you wrote there buddy.
Perhaps some of us expect more than any developer has yet to put out?
Perhaps some of us LOVE the ideas of several games yet they still do not cut it for our liking?
EVE - great game - only truly alive "world" - real economy - SHITTY COMBAT - CAN NEVER CATCH UP
If EVE had player skilled FPS style combat I'd drop everything and play it... however it does not. Otherwise EVE is the perfect game in most regards... personally I find the PVP being based around warp gates a little retarded.
Again you're wrong. I'm so sorry I'm not willing to compromise what I want out of a sandbox just to play one.
Full Sail University - Game Design
If you cant find an apple which is tasty in a basket full of rotten apples, youre not a apple conniseur.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
That's a little too much of a response for someone who doesn't care isn't it mate? A bit unfair too. Anyway if you don't care as you say than don't get so involved in the discussion. I'm actually of a similiar viewpoint regarding how you view sandbox games but I am willing to discuss it. If you don't give "a flying fig" like you say than simply walk away.
The one thing this thread really proves is there is a passion out there for sandboxes. No matter what, as long as people are demanding them, theres room for improvement in the genre. Then again what genre doesn't have room for improvement. That demand is good. It drives game companies. Thats my real qualm with Quiz's opinion. Why worry about people complaining about no sandboxes. When it just drives the whole genre
OP didn't even respond to me. Too good of a point for you to even try to argue?
And you're making a thread whining about whining.
The cycle continues.
There. I replied. Happy?
More seriously, I did reply earlier to your argument, even if I didn't quote you on it. Basically, the problem is that real games can't compete with nostalgia, and you only get to do something for the first time once.
Pretty sure you are the one who is wrong. You are just saying that there is one feature of Eve you don't like. You basically are strengthening the OP's point. Face it you don't like Sandboxes because they aren't exactly what you want. Just admit that you would find some other excuse not to play EvE if they added twitch combat.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Yeah - nostalgia argument again.
That's really something cause I often replay for example old single player games and still BG2 has much better dialogs, story , lore , attention to details, much more flexibility and options , etc and overall game design than f.e. DA2 or even DA:O even though they are same type of game of game.
+ much more examples like that.
Of course I can also find NEW great games and SOME of old games when I tried to replay them they well werent as good as I remembered them BUT not ALL.
Some very old games still beat many of new similar productions in everything but graphics cause they are not dumbed down, streamlined, etc
That about nostalgia.
Now about sandbox mmorpgs.
UO and SWG were AAA sandboxes peroid.
EvE managed to became AAA sandbox.
There were few hybrid or themeparks with sandbox elements that were AAA as well in past.
-----
Currently except EvE all other sandboxes are
a) indie
b) broken
c) old
d) indie , broken and old
Yeah I know that you very much like UWO and consider it as AAA title.
Well I don't and what It seems most other people don't as well.
Yes I've tried UWO.
Will not repeat why it and other current sandboxes (Tale in the Desert, MO, DFO , etc ) does not work for me ,cause that would be like repeating myself for 5th time and repating what many other peopel said for like 100 th time.
If you cannot see substantial diffrence between what was offered for sandbox players years ago and what is offered now - then guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Just to be clear - I am not interested in playing AGAIN some underfinanced , broken, deserted by players (looking at you DFO EU server !) , cash shop financed ,old or indie / low-budget (Salem , Wakfu) title. Yes I tried many of them.
This.