For some reason, every sandbox MMO (except Ryzom which is more PvE) seems to think "sandbox lol, we must have full loot griefer pvp in the game lololol"
Only sandbox games I've liked are SWG Pre-CU and Ryzom...lots of PvE content, but PvP in there if I wanted it. Every other sandbox game is fail (imo) open pvp...not sure why that is. When there is a huge PvE fanbase.
Facts are that sandbox players might like more PvE things them what the current market offers. EvE for example is a pure pvp game. I find the PvE to be lacking. Its the only real Sandbox that is an A+ title at this point with a healthy playerbase. And its fun, but that dosent mean I dont like to play something that isent 8+ years old. And might bring some new fetures and innovations...
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
horseshit. they're not fans of current sandboxes. doesn't mean they aren't fans of future sandboxes.
Telling people there is a vast sea of AAA sandbox games waiting to be played, and only linking one that isn't AAA by anyone's standards but your own does not give you or anyone else the right to call someone out on there preferred style of game
....
Uncharted Waters is not a AAA mmo. Its done by a f2p company. 30 years of experience means nothing, I have 15-20 years of playing games, but that doesnt make me a professional gamer. Several hundred million in annual revenue, this is a completely false statement that you just pulled out of your ass on a whim. Considering the highest grossing game is WoW, sadly, and that pulled around 500 mill. Where as the next highest grossing games pulled between 50-100mil, and uncharted waters is no where on the list.
....
All we have here people is a terrible troll, or an attention whore. I will go with the latter considering his/her 6000+ posts.
I didn't say there is a vast sea of AAA sandbox MMORPGs. I only said there is one.
UWO was originally a subscription game in Japan, and I think it still is, though I'm not sure. The publisher of the English-language version had more experience with item mall games, so they decided to convert it to that business model. Basically, they gave away the subscription version for free, and then added an item mall on top of that.
If converting from subscription to item mall means that a game isn't AAA, then you're arguing that EQ2 and LotRO aren't AAA, among others. And furthermore, you're arguing that if WoW or SWTOR were to convert to an item mall, they wouldn't be AAA, either. Is that really the argument you want to make? If so, then I think you're defining AAA too narrowly.
This OP and his pointless arguments are quite comical.
For me, I didn't realize I liked sand boxes, or wasn't even aware of the sandbox definition, until I played SWG (near release of course, before the NGE BS). To this date, I have not been able to find a game that has given me SO much enjoyment, and held my attention in such a way. Yes, I've liked other games, but SWG was just something else.
Anyway, I don't feel like typing too much in such a ridiculous thread so I'll get to my point. For me, it is a Sandbox game that made me realize I LIKE SANDBOX games, and I'm sure it is the same for many, if not mostly all others you are talking about here. This makes your argument completely invalid.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
So you understand that people have different taste and might not like every sandbox, but you don't understand that people have different taste and might not have found "their" sandbox and are therefor they "not an MMORPG sandbox fan" in your mind.
The simple truth is that some people have not found the MMO, they might like the parts of some of the games but there could be something that just ruins it for them. I know that with many of my friends it’s PvP as the vast majority of sandbox MMO’s are open PvP and don’t give you the option not to participate in PvP. I can understand their point of view perfectly and it’s something I agree with because above all a sandbox should provide you with options and so they wait, they want to join up in all the fun that is a sandbox but don’t want to have to deal with what they see as griefers.
For me I already know what I want and that’s a sandbox that allows you to explore and craft in depth. Fallen Earth has filled that but it’s not really a sandbox in my view though it’s darn close. ArcheAge is exactly what I am looking for though sadly as it’s open PvP so my friends wont join me. Though if they had a PvE server that allowed for flagging and guild wars I know they would play it so for now they will just have to wait while I have fun. ^_^
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Telling people there is a vast sea of AAA sandbox games waiting to be played, and only linking one that isn't AAA by anyone's standards but your own does not give you or anyone else the right to call someone out on there preferred style of game
....
Uncharted Waters is not a AAA mmo. Its done by a f2p company. 30 years of experience means nothing, I have 15-20 years of playing games, but that doesnt make me a professional gamer. Several hundred million in annual revenue, this is a completely false statement that you just pulled out of your ass on a whim. Considering the highest grossing game is WoW, sadly, and that pulled around 500 mill. Where as the next highest grossing games pulled between 50-100mil, and uncharted waters is no where on the list.
....
All we have here people is a terrible troll, or an attention whore. I will go with the latter considering his/her 6000+ posts.
I didn't say there is a vast sea of AAA sandbox MMORPGs. I only said there is one.
UWO was originally a subscription game in Japan, and I think it still is, though I'm not sure. The publisher of the English-language version had more experience with item mall games, so they decided to convert it to that business model. Basically, they gave away the subscription version for free, and then added an item mall on top of that.
If converting from subscription to item mall means that a game isn't AAA, then you're arguing that EQ2 and LotRO aren't AAA, among others. And furthermore, you're arguing that if WoW or SWTOR were to convert to an item mall, they wouldn't be AAA, either. Is that really the argument you want to make? If so, then I think you're defining AAA too narrowly.
I'll let you convert from Yen to US$ yourself. Obviously, most of that revenue isn't just from UWO. But neither is it a random number that I made up.
Finally, lay off the ad hominem arguments. A large fraction of my posts are in the hardware section.
Most of that revenue is from DoA, Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. UWO pulled a bit but not a majority.
But using the companies annual revenue doesnt make the game AAA. If the game itself had pulled those numbers then there would be no dispute. But considering there are bigger companies like SE that have released games like FFXIV and Wakfu. Those games aren't considered AAA just because SE is a multimillion if not billion dollar corporation. No they aren't AAA at all depsite FFXIV's massive franchise name.
Having a decent company backing you is great but it doesn't automatically make the game you develop AAA. People considered FFXIV to be AAA, but in the end it turned out to be a very bad representation of what a AAA tittle should be and isnt AAA any longer. Its been put back into development and is shooting for that status again.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Most of that revenue is from DoA, Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. UWO pulled a bit but not a majority.
But using the companies annual revenue doesnt make the game AAA. If the game itself had pulled those numbers then there would be no dispute. But considering there are bigger companies like SE that have released games like FFXIV and Wakfu. Those games aren't considered AAA just because SE is a multimillion if not billion dollar corporation. No they aren't AAA at all depsite FFXIV's massive franchise name.
Having a decent company backing you is great but it doesn't automatically make the game you develop AAA. People considered FFXIV to be AAA, but in the end it turned out to be a very bad representation of what a AAA tittle should be and isnt AAA any longer. Its been put back into development and is shooting for that status again.
So you're arguing that AAA is about current subscription numbers? In that case, you're effectively arguing that a game that targets a niche cannot possibly be AAA, because even if it has a huge budget and tons of content and is highly polished, and even if everyone in the niche it targets thinks that it's the best game ever, there just aren't enough of them.
In that case, it's plausible that saying there aren't any AAA sandbox games would be a tautology, as being a sandbox game intrinsically means that it can't get enough subscribers to be AAA.
I'm not sure what the worldwide number of UWO players is, but I am pretty sure that most of them don't play the English version of the game. The main wikis for the game are the Japanese and Taiwanese ones. uwodb reports that about half of its visitors are from South Korea.
Koei has their niche, but it's never been a popular niche in the US. That's why, while UWO was quickly translated into Korean and Chinese, it took several years before it was translated into English. But they have found the game profitable enough to make several expansions.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
I don't whine loudly about it.
I've played and enjoyed SWG, EVE, Xsyon (this most recent game for more than a year). But for different reasons none of them are so interesting to me now.
I completely disagree with your post. Your assertion that you can tell people what they like is wrong.
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
I'm sick of people creating threads to whine that there aren't any good sandbox games out there. Which is completely absurd, as I've played several. And I haven't played EVE, so it's hardly the only good sandbox game out there.
Now, different games will appeal to different people. So I'm not saying that a sandbox fan should like all of the sandbox games out there; some games really are just terrible games, or simply not what you're after. I can also understand if you've played a couple sandbox games and liked them, but eventually got tired of them, and only want to complain that there aren't enough good sandbox games.
But I don't have any sympathy for people who can't find a single sandbox game that they like, and want to whine loudly about it. Even if they think they're sandbox fans, they're not.
Yes, they have some good ones.....if you like broken gameplay mechanics, crappy graphics and 10 year old polish on games. take mortal online. I would have played the HELL out of that game. But I started noticing way to many bugs. not just small bugs but gamebreaking bugs. Now, if a AAA would have developed a game like that I would say "whats gw2?" because sandboxes are where my heart is, but dont come on here and bash people because they are creating threads saying how they feel. Who are you to tell me, or anyone for that matter what they do or do not like. You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay. Archeage is about the closest to what I want that I can think of but we are waiting to see if and when it will be realeased here. And even Archeage is not a TRUE sandbox, but I'd be willing to compromise as I actually think the future of mmos is a blend between sandbox and themepark.
Most of that revenue is from DoA, Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. UWO pulled a bit but not a majority.
But using the companies annual revenue doesnt make the game AAA. If the game itself had pulled those numbers then there would be no dispute. But considering there are bigger companies like SE that have released games like FFXIV and Wakfu. Those games aren't considered AAA just because SE is a multimillion if not billion dollar corporation. No they aren't AAA at all depsite FFXIV's massive franchise name.
Having a decent company backing you is great but it doesn't automatically make the game you develop AAA. People considered FFXIV to be AAA, but in the end it turned out to be a very bad representation of what a AAA tittle should be and isnt AAA any longer. Its been put back into development and is shooting for that status again.
So you're arguing that AAA is about current subscription numbers? In that case, you're effectively arguing that a game that targets a niche cannot possibly be AAA, because even if it has a huge budget and tons of content and is highly polished, and even if everyone in the niche it targets thinks that it's the best game ever, there just aren't enough of them.
In that case, it's plausible that saying there aren't any AAA sandbox games would be a tautology, as being a sandbox game intrinsically means that it can't get enough subscribers to be AAA.
I'm not sure what the worldwide number of UWO players is, but I am pretty sure that most of them don't play the English version of the game. The main wikis for the game are the Japanese and Taiwanese ones. uwodb reports that about half of its visitors are from South Korea.
Koei has their niche, but it's never been a popular niche in the US. That's why, while UWO was quickly translated into Korean and Chinese, it took several years before it was translated into English. But they have found the game profitable enough to make several expansions.
"In that case, it's plausible that saying there aren't any AAA sanbox games would be a tautology, as being a sandbox game intrinsically means that it can't get enough subscribers to be AAA." <-----This here is the reason we see so many wow clones. You make a well polished game that works correctly and people will play it. Wrong mindset here.
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
This post actually made me look up uncharted waters, then I found out it was pay2win and was immediately turn off, mission accomplished?
I guess you didn't look very hard, then. I've spent $10, total, in five months. And there's nothing more in the item mall that is of much interest to me.
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
This post actually made me look up uncharted waters, then I found out it was pay2win and was immediately turn off, mission accomplished?
I guess you didn't look very hard, then. I've spent $10, total, in five months. And there's nothing more in the item mall that is of much interest to me.
I dunno, read another post in this forum that said you could buy ships that couldn't be attacked by pirates or speed boosts that let your cash shop heavy cruiser catch up to a light weight frigate. If so, that's pretty much the definition of P2W even if you chose not to utilize it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
This post actually made me look up uncharted waters, then I found out it was pay2win and was immediately turn off, mission accomplished?
I guess you didn't look very hard, then. I've spent $10, total, in five months. And there's nothing more in the item mall that is of much interest to me.
I went to the UWO forums here and read something about other players being able to buy a "can't touch (gank) me flag" and a "Super Duper Pwnz Youz Battleship" cash shop opt-out of PvP and Pay2Pwn PvP cuts me at the very core as a long time EvE player, those are exactly the kind of possibilities that brought so much controversy to CCP during last summer. Not even talking about it is going to happen but simply we might be going in that direction drew the ire of many players that believed in real PvP and not cash shop PvP aka pay2win.
Comments
OP - Aren't you whining about whiners? Oh the irony.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
For some reason, every sandbox MMO (except Ryzom which is more PvE) seems to think "sandbox lol, we must have full loot griefer pvp in the game lololol"
Only sandbox games I've liked are SWG Pre-CU and Ryzom...lots of PvE content, but PvP in there if I wanted it. Every other sandbox game is fail (imo) open pvp...not sure why that is. When there is a huge PvE fanbase.
Facts are that sandbox players might like more PvE things them what the current market offers. EvE for example is a pure pvp game. I find the PvE to be lacking. Its the only real Sandbox that is an A+ title at this point with a healthy playerbase. And its fun, but that dosent mean I dont like to play something that isent 8+ years old. And might bring some new fetures and innovations...
horseshit. they're not fans of current sandboxes. doesn't mean they aren't fans of future sandboxes.
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Corpus Callosum
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I didn't say there is a vast sea of AAA sandbox MMORPGs. I only said there is one.
UWO was originally a subscription game in Japan, and I think it still is, though I'm not sure. The publisher of the English-language version had more experience with item mall games, so they decided to convert it to that business model. Basically, they gave away the subscription version for free, and then added an item mall on top of that.
If converting from subscription to item mall means that a game isn't AAA, then you're arguing that EQ2 and LotRO aren't AAA, among others. And furthermore, you're arguing that if WoW or SWTOR were to convert to an item mall, they wouldn't be AAA, either. Is that really the argument you want to make? If so, then I think you're defining AAA too narrowly.
As for revenue numbers, read it for yourself:
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=3635:JP
I'll let you convert from Yen to US$ yourself. Obviously, most of that revenue isn't just from UWO. But neither is it a random number that I made up.
Finally, lay off the ad hominem arguments. A large fraction of my posts are in the hardware section.
Hey guys.
If you haven't yet found someone you want to be in a romantic relationship with, you must not want to be in a romantic relationship!
quit scratching you're head over reality and alt-tab back to your WoW grinding currently in progress. where the moment to moment "fun" is apparently.
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Corpus Callosum
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And you are pretty pushy and condescending there as well...just being honest.
perfect illustration.
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Corpus Callosum
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I'm playing Uncharted Waters Online right now. In the past, I've liked A Tale in the Desert and Puzzle Pirates.
This OP and his pointless arguments are quite comical.
For me, I didn't realize I liked sand boxes, or wasn't even aware of the sandbox definition, until I played SWG (near release of course, before the NGE BS). To this date, I have not been able to find a game that has given me SO much enjoyment, and held my attention in such a way. Yes, I've liked other games, but SWG was just something else.
Anyway, I don't feel like typing too much in such a ridiculous thread so I'll get to my point. For me, it is a Sandbox game that made me realize I LIKE SANDBOX games, and I'm sure it is the same for many, if not mostly all others you are talking about here. This makes your argument completely invalid.
It is where I'm from.
Trammies need to stop polluting the MMORPG landscape. They already have enough games in which to emote hugs and sell garbage by the banks.
So you understand that people have different taste and might not like every sandbox, but you don't understand that people have different taste and might not have found "their" sandbox and are therefor they "not an MMORPG sandbox fan" in your mind.
The simple truth is that some people have not found the MMO, they might like the parts of some of the games but there could be something that just ruins it for them. I know that with many of my friends it’s PvP as the vast majority of sandbox MMO’s are open PvP and don’t give you the option not to participate in PvP. I can understand their point of view perfectly and it’s something I agree with because above all a sandbox should provide you with options and so they wait, they want to join up in all the fun that is a sandbox but don’t want to have to deal with what they see as griefers.
For me I already know what I want and that’s a sandbox that allows you to explore and craft in depth. Fallen Earth has filled that but it’s not really a sandbox in my view though it’s darn close. ArcheAge is exactly what I am looking for though sadly as it’s open PvP so my friends wont join me. Though if they had a PvE server that allowed for flagging and guild wars I know they would play it so for now they will just have to wait while I have fun. ^_^
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Most of that revenue is from DoA, Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. UWO pulled a bit but not a majority.
But using the companies annual revenue doesnt make the game AAA. If the game itself had pulled those numbers then there would be no dispute. But considering there are bigger companies like SE that have released games like FFXIV and Wakfu. Those games aren't considered AAA just because SE is a multimillion if not billion dollar corporation. No they aren't AAA at all depsite FFXIV's massive franchise name.
Having a decent company backing you is great but it doesn't automatically make the game you develop AAA. People considered FFXIV to be AAA, but in the end it turned out to be a very bad representation of what a AAA tittle should be and isnt AAA any longer. Its been put back into development and is shooting for that status again.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
So you're arguing that AAA is about current subscription numbers? In that case, you're effectively arguing that a game that targets a niche cannot possibly be AAA, because even if it has a huge budget and tons of content and is highly polished, and even if everyone in the niche it targets thinks that it's the best game ever, there just aren't enough of them.
In that case, it's plausible that saying there aren't any AAA sandbox games would be a tautology, as being a sandbox game intrinsically means that it can't get enough subscribers to be AAA.
I'm not sure what the worldwide number of UWO players is, but I am pretty sure that most of them don't play the English version of the game. The main wikis for the game are the Japanese and Taiwanese ones. uwodb reports that about half of its visitors are from South Korea.
Koei has their niche, but it's never been a popular niche in the US. That's why, while UWO was quickly translated into Korean and Chinese, it took several years before it was translated into English. But they have found the game profitable enough to make several expansions.
Go play Asheron's Call....its graphics are dated, but its still REALLY FUN.
I don't whine loudly about it.
I've played and enjoyed SWG, EVE, Xsyon (this most recent game for more than a year). But for different reasons none of them are so interesting to me now.
I completely disagree with your post. Your assertion that you can tell people what they like is wrong.
You probably only post this stuff to promote Unchartered Waters again, so I guess it is mission accomplished.
This post actually made me look up uncharted waters, then I found out it was pay2win and was immediately turn off, mission accomplished?
Yes, they have some good ones.....if you like broken gameplay mechanics, crappy graphics and 10 year old polish on games. take mortal online. I would have played the HELL out of that game. But I started noticing way to many bugs. not just small bugs but gamebreaking bugs. Now, if a AAA would have developed a game like that I would say "whats gw2?" because sandboxes are where my heart is, but dont come on here and bash people because they are creating threads saying how they feel. Who are you to tell me, or anyone for that matter what they do or do not like. You show me an mmo that is a true sandbox in a medevil setting, with polished graphics equivalant to something like gw1(thats being generous) and modern day non buggy/broken gameplay mechanics then we will talk. To top it off, show me some innovation in gameplay. Archeage is about the closest to what I want that I can think of but we are waiting to see if and when it will be realeased here. And even Archeage is not a TRUE sandbox, but I'd be willing to compromise as I actually think the future of mmos is a blend between sandbox and themepark.
"In that case, it's plausible that saying there aren't any AAA sanbox games would be a tautology, as being a sandbox game intrinsically means that it can't get enough subscribers to be AAA." <-----This here is the reason we see so many wow clones. You make a well polished game that works correctly and people will play it. Wrong mindset here.
I have played all of these and in my opinion they are all epic fails.
I guess you didn't look very hard, then. I've spent $10, total, in five months. And there's nothing more in the item mall that is of much interest to me.
I dunno, read another post in this forum that said you could buy ships that couldn't be attacked by pirates or speed boosts that let your cash shop heavy cruiser catch up to a light weight frigate. If so, that's pretty much the definition of P2W even if you chose not to utilize it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I went to the UWO forums here and read something about other players being able to buy a "can't touch (gank) me flag" and a "Super Duper Pwnz Youz Battleship" cash shop opt-out of PvP and Pay2Pwn PvP cuts me at the very core as a long time EvE player, those are exactly the kind of possibilities that brought so much controversy to CCP during last summer. Not even talking about it is going to happen but simply we might be going in that direction drew the ire of many players that believed in real PvP and not cash shop PvP aka pay2win.