So the question is would you SUB to a sandbox game for 1 month in Protest!
No, this will do NOTHING.
The solution is simple, the problem is getting the majority on board...
STOP PAYING FOR CRAP TITLES. PERIOD!
Have you guys stopped and thought that maybe the majority doesn't think the titles are crap and as such doesn't mind paying for them?
Honestly ya'll sound like parents in the 50's who were trying to force their kids to not buy and like Elvis records because Elvis was crap in their eyes.
Or perhaps they're just playing them because everything else sucks too.
Very few people I think will throw away money on something that isn't fun just because it's the only option they think they have.
People who don't like Pop music don't run out to the local Walmart to buy all the latest CD's just because so and so are on the top 10 charts.
So the question is would you SUB to a sandbox game for 1 month in Protest!
No, this will do NOTHING.
The solution is simple, the problem is getting the majority on board...
STOP PAYING FOR CRAP TITLES. PERIOD!
Have you guys stopped and thought that maybe the majority doesn't think the titles are crap and as such doesn't mind paying for them?
Honestly ya'll sound like parents in the 50's who were trying to force their kids to not buy and like Elvis records because Elvis was crap in their eyes.
Or perhaps they're just playing them because everything else sucks too.
Very few people I think will throw away money on something that isn't fun just because it's the only option they think they have.
People who don't like Pop music don't run out to the local Walmart to buy all the latest CD's just because so and so are on the top 10 charts.
Really? I used to do it. I have friends that still do it. And I know there are TONS of people here who do it.
Gamers are game-junkies jonesing for their next fix.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Very few people I think will throw away money on something that isn't fun just because it's the only option they think they have.
People who don't like Pop music don't run out to the local Walmart to buy all the latest CD's just because so and so are on the top 10 charts.
Really? I used to do it. I have friends that still do it. And I know there are TONS of people here who do it.
Gamers are game-junkies jonesing for their next fix.
Not saying you are wrong, as we all have different experiences, but saying "I know a guy" is not an argument.
That being said, it is fair to assume there are people who stick around in games they only find "meh" due to the social connections. They stay for their friends/guilds even though they don't REALLY like the game that much.
I dont like spacegames at all and few fanatasy sandbox like Darkfall or Mortal online are full with cheaters so o gave up on hope ever to play a sandbox with nice and honest players who dont mind find out whole game themselfs and dont mind work alot on there character to become someone.
Hardcore died out a longtime ago.
My best experience where AC1&2- Darktide and Darkfall in lesser degree also lineage 2 early days.
Saga Of Ryzom had a great community but it was all to tame to friendly game kind of hippy flowers in your hair game, all you need is peace, love and understanding hehe.
I wish the good old Darktide times came back but in new game settings with todays graphics and hardcore game play no room for casuals and hold hands crap.
Somehow i can't bring myself get back to those old games with crappy graphics.
So i settle for The Witcher 2 or SKyrim games.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Very few people I think will throw away money on something that isn't fun just because it's the only option they think they have.
People who don't like Pop music don't run out to the local Walmart to buy all the latest CD's just because so and so are on the top 10 charts.
Really? I used to do it. I have friends that still do it. And I know there are TONS of people here who do it.
Gamers are game-junkies jonesing for their next fix.
Not saying you are wrong, as we all have different experiences, but saying "I know a guy" is not an argument.
That being said, it is fair to assume there are people who stick around in games they only find "meh" due to the social connections. They stay for their friends/guilds even though they don't REALLY like the game that much.
Oh c'mon now, really. How many gamers that visit here on a regular basis do you imagine go out and purchase MMOs just because it's next on the release list? This isn't rocket science here, gamers are just plain junkies. I know.
*twitch twitch*
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Not saying you are wrong, as we all have different experiences, but saying "I know a guy" is not an argument.
That being said, it is fair to assume there are people who stick around in games they only find "meh" due to the social connections. They stay for their friends/guilds even though they don't REALLY like the game that much.
Oh c'mon now, really. How many gamers that visit here on a regular basis do you imagine go out and purchase MMOs just because it's next on the release list? This isn't rocket science here, gamers are just plain junkies. I know.
Not saying you are wrong, as we all have different experiences, but saying "I know a guy" is not an argument.
That being said, it is fair to assume there are people who stick around in games they only find "meh" due to the social connections. They stay for their friends/guilds even though they don't REALLY like the game that much.
Oh c'mon now, really. How many gamers that visit here on a regular basis do you imagine go out and purchase MMOs just because it's next on the release list? This isn't rocket science here, gamers are just plain junkies. I know.
*twitch twitch*
You do have a point sir. +1
And this is why I believe the genre is in so much trouble. We're all a bunch of degenerate junkies waiting for our next fix while our "dealers" continue to cut down the product (dumb down) with junk.
If you'd ask me what I thought the MMO future looked like 15 years ago I'd probably smile and get wide-eyed about it. Ask me now and I'll get a real nasty look while spouting something about "what should have been".
It doesn't matter if someone likes themepark or sandbox games because we're all the victims of corporate greed and subpar games. The sooner we get into rehabilitation and understand why we're being treated this way then maybe something will change.
Maybe. One day.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
The only way sandbox games are going to come into their own is when someone finally makes a *good* one again, and people get excited about it. That's it. Someone's going to have to build one and let it grow organically. If it takes off to a decent degree, even as a strong niche market like EVE, then other games will come after it.
Petitions and protests are a waste of time, because most of the current player base has no clue what a real sandbox game is, and has never tried one. Investors and developers are only going to respond to success. Someone is going to have to forge that path.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I see your point, but i guess what i was trying to convey with naming those console games is that, those games are open ended even though they are not mmorpg's. No you don't have the tools to create within the game world, but some like minecraft you do. I just feel like the days of the very linear and restricted themparks are gonna start to take a back seat to a game world that has sandbox tools for the community to build with once again. It's the reason why i mention those 3 that are coming out. The one that actually has the tools to let the communtiy build things within the online world and still has a robust character system will probably be the most successful. The trend is pointing to much into that direction for it not to be.
Well I can't speak as to exactly how freeform the games you list are (only Archeage strikes me as particularly sandbox, but I barely investigate upcoming games) but I definitely believe that the more a game tells players "Make your own damn fun" the less players will be interested in that sort of experience.
That's definitely what took the wind out of the sails of most sandbox games I've tried, including Minecraft.
But once you take steps away from that completely freeform make-your-own-game experience, the result is a much stronger game (Terraria vs. Minecraft) Though obviously in that case a stronger game doesn't necessarily make for stronger sales, particularly when compared with an aberration like Minecraft.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As much as I do love this idea I doubt it will have any impact even with supersillious numbers.
The fact is corperations are in "the game" of limiting choice. The more they get us to accept the limiting of our choices the easier it is to control and project profits. They will continue to overide the self directed experiance with an "on rails" or directed experiance no matter what we want of it even if it is good for all of us.
The fact is from the time we are very young we are taught to do what we are told. There are no schools for self directed curriculum and this model will always be prevalant because of that. A sandbox game works and whittles, out of a current base of players, a group that, while is enjoying a superior experiance, lacks a self sustaining groth factor becaause of all the other institutions such as school work and law.
If you truly want the kind of freedom that I am sure you do in games we would need a fundemental change, society wide, and, we are working it from the "butt-end" of the problem.
so let me get this right... you are fed up with how games are being made so your idea is to get everyone to pay money to a game they very well may not enjoy just because it has mechanics you like??
thats like telling everyone to be a veggan then making them spend a month eating nothing but raw meat.... because meat has mechanics veggies dont have and should have...
frankly i have looked at EVE and its not for me. its too much of a gank-fest for my tastes if you actually manage to get people to pay money to eve because of your idea... great... though it wont change any thing other then a bunch of people will throw money to CCP for no reason just because of 1 or 2 mechanics people want in say AOC.....
which really wont put said mechanic in any game...
Online games should also be sandboxes. Consoles should be for little story games where you let Mr. Dev tell you a half assed story.
100% of the time players are more entertaining than developers. 100% of the time sandboxes are better than little baby themeparks.
Take SWTOR for example. Holy. Fucking. Shit. They told a C story where the main feature was not playing a game, it was watching little movie clips. Watching little a little movies about NPCs. And they called that an online game.
EVE doesn't feel like much of that ideal sandbox experience a lot of posters here are looking for. Sure, there's plenty of "sand", but very little in the way of tools to actually have fun in the game outside of the simplistic economic system and PvP. Also, the whole legal system is ridiculous, a real sandbox title would never have an inescable force like Concord deterring involuntary PvP. I mean, I like the whole concept of faction based PvP and all, but I really don't think subbing to them is going to encourage devs to make the next Ultima Online or something.
so let me get this right... you are fed up with how games are being made so your idea is to get everyone to pay money to a game they very well may not enjoy just because it has mechanics you like??
thats like telling everyone to be a veggan then making them spend a month eating nothing but raw meat.... because meat has mechanics veggies dont have and should have...
frankly i have looked at EVE and its not for me. its too much of a gank-fest for my tastes if you actually manage to get people to pay money to eve because of your idea... great... though it wont change any thing other then a bunch of people will throw money to CCP for no reason just because of 1 or 2 mechanics people want in say AOC.....
which really wont put said mechanic in any game...
The game is open for discussion. And its more of a statment that enough people are willing to Suffer and pay because how the Industry is today. We want a NEW shiny game that is FUN.. and we are willing to suport any company that We RESPECT!!.. so our Money Is a donation to their Cause. You understand what Im getting at here. Rewards for being GREAT.. even if the product might not be just what we want. WE WANT THE SANDBOX freedom the game has....
Develpers all think we want WoW 2,0 but I dont think that we do? do you? But unless a sandbox start getting some Numbers they wont make them you get what Im saying here?. If EvE had 10m subs and WoW had 400k all we would get were EvE clones... you follow me. So this thread is for people who want sandbox mechanics back. And to get them we need to use the numbers game...
EVE doesn't feel like much of that ideal sandbox experience a lot of posters here are looking for. Sure, there's plenty of "sand", but very little in the way of tools to actually have fun in the game outside of the simplistic economic system and PvP. Also, the whole legal system is ridiculous, a real sandbox title would never have an inescable force like Concord deterring involuntary PvP. I mean, I like the whole concept of faction based PvP and all, but I really don't think subbing to them is going to encourage devs to make the next Ultima Online or something.
Read above post if a sandbox had made it big like WoW all we would have gotten for the past 8 years were more sandboxes. So people who want the mechanics back need to start voting with their Wallets. And a combined effort is better then nothing. ANd this is a test to see how many would like to give it a try..
Reason I made this is becuase everyone here Is mostly unhappy with how the genre turned out. Everyday there are new post about how the glory days were better. And Im telling you all if we dont want to play Clones untill the day we die we need to step up and do something.
And this goes for people that are also tired of the Themepark clone games that have been going on for the past 8 years. If you are a themepark player and want something new.. you should also suport this... Its a Statment that we are Not happy. We want change...
What that change should be can be debated later but the fact is many of us want a Change.. And WoW did a good jobb of bringing old mechanics back to life. Maybe a new developer should do the same? Change up old mechanics and make a better game. But not COPYijng WoW.. but instead try to do something diffrent... There are lots of old mechanics that have been left to die... Most of them had to do with community... Lets try and bring them back
If we wanted to make a statement, we'd start a Kickstarter campaign for an indie sandbox dev and get them enough funding to push their development process into overdrive.
I'd certainly be willing to donate to one if it was going to be based on what hardcore MMO fans wanted than a group of ignorant suits...
I voted yes, but I would say pick a sandbox or sandboxish game that seems to be trying to do things right, but is struggling...The subs would mean more to them, even if it was for a month only....
I am looking forward to some of the hybrid releases, that do incorporate more sandbox.
I voted yes, but I would say pick a sandbox or sandboxish game that seems to be trying to do things right, but is struggling...The subs would mean more to them, even if it was for a month only....
I am looking forward to some of the hybrid releases, that do incorporate more sandbox.
We just need to show some sort of Backing for the Sandbox/hybrid genre. And also show that we are not happy were the industry is going. SO spread this around amongst your friends...
Sandbox mechanics could be put in, not nessisarily needed but could be used, it all depends on how the game is designed.
Should old sandbox mechanics be used? No... not at all, not without being refined and fixed. Lets not kid ourselves, those old sandbox mechanics haven't been 'reapplied' becuase they are flawed. A huge issue in sandbox when its done to much is that those few players at top no lifing it suddenly have such a huge one up on everyone that, why should anyone play?
There is just no reason at all when a game has such imbalance to even bother starting. Its a huge issue really with anything that goes hard into sandbox play trying to let the players have full control.
After the NGE I once said I would play a Star Wars version of WoW (themepark) MMo as long as it wasn't made by SOE and it was based on Star Wars. I followed SWTOR, supported BioWare's every move blindly....now after playing it I know it's not what I wanted. I want a Sandbox MMO...It's the reason I even started playing MMOs. I hated them, until I tried SWG. I thought they were slow paced, linear and boring. Once SWG went to sh!t I conformed, now I'm here to say I will no longer be a sheeple for the MMO industry like some assimilated Borg. I want sandbox game play worthy of my money, and if I have to wait another decade or two for something to come along, so be it.
Comments
Very few people I think will throw away money on something that isn't fun just because it's the only option they think they have.
People who don't like Pop music don't run out to the local Walmart to buy all the latest CD's just because so and so are on the top 10 charts.
Really? I used to do it. I have friends that still do it. And I know there are TONS of people here who do it.
Gamers are game-junkies jonesing for their next fix.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Not saying you are wrong, as we all have different experiences, but saying "I know a guy" is not an argument.
That being said, it is fair to assume there are people who stick around in games they only find "meh" due to the social connections. They stay for their friends/guilds even though they don't REALLY like the game that much.
I dont like spacegames at all and few fanatasy sandbox like Darkfall or Mortal online are full with cheaters so o gave up on hope ever to play a sandbox with nice and honest players who dont mind find out whole game themselfs and dont mind work alot on there character to become someone.
Hardcore died out a longtime ago.
My best experience where AC1&2- Darktide and Darkfall in lesser degree also lineage 2 early days.
Saga Of Ryzom had a great community but it was all to tame to friendly game kind of hippy flowers in your hair game, all you need is peace, love and understanding hehe.
I wish the good old Darktide times came back but in new game settings with todays graphics and hardcore game play no room for casuals and hold hands crap.
Somehow i can't bring myself get back to those old games with crappy graphics.
So i settle for The Witcher 2 or SKyrim games.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Oh c'mon now, really. How many gamers that visit here on a regular basis do you imagine go out and purchase MMOs just because it's next on the release list? This isn't rocket science here, gamers are just plain junkies. I know.
*twitch twitch*
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You do have a point sir. +1
I will sub more than 1 month... until another good game comes out.
And this is why I believe the genre is in so much trouble. We're all a bunch of degenerate junkies waiting for our next fix while our "dealers" continue to cut down the product (dumb down) with junk.
If you'd ask me what I thought the MMO future looked like 15 years ago I'd probably smile and get wide-eyed about it. Ask me now and I'll get a real nasty look while spouting something about "what should have been".
It doesn't matter if someone likes themepark or sandbox games because we're all the victims of corporate greed and subpar games. The sooner we get into rehabilitation and understand why we're being treated this way then maybe something will change.
Maybe. One day.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
The only way sandbox games are going to come into their own is when someone finally makes a *good* one again, and people get excited about it. That's it. Someone's going to have to build one and let it grow organically. If it takes off to a decent degree, even as a strong niche market like EVE, then other games will come after it.
Petitions and protests are a waste of time, because most of the current player base has no clue what a real sandbox game is, and has never tried one. Investors and developers are only going to respond to success. Someone is going to have to forge that path.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Well I can't speak as to exactly how freeform the games you list are (only Archeage strikes me as particularly sandbox, but I barely investigate upcoming games) but I definitely believe that the more a game tells players "Make your own damn fun" the less players will be interested in that sort of experience.
That's definitely what took the wind out of the sails of most sandbox games I've tried, including Minecraft.
But once you take steps away from that completely freeform make-your-own-game experience, the result is a much stronger game (Terraria vs. Minecraft) Though obviously in that case a stronger game doesn't necessarily make for stronger sales, particularly when compared with an aberration like Minecraft.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As much as I do love this idea I doubt it will have any impact even with supersillious numbers.
The fact is corperations are in "the game" of limiting choice. The more they get us to accept the limiting of our choices the easier it is to control and project profits. They will continue to overide the self directed experiance with an "on rails" or directed experiance no matter what we want of it even if it is good for all of us.
The fact is from the time we are very young we are taught to do what we are told. There are no schools for self directed curriculum and this model will always be prevalant because of that. A sandbox game works and whittles, out of a current base of players, a group that, while is enjoying a superior experiance, lacks a self sustaining groth factor becaause of all the other institutions such as school work and law.
If you truly want the kind of freedom that I am sure you do in games we would need a fundemental change, society wide, and, we are working it from the "butt-end" of the problem.
45 voted 73% is up for it can we get more
Come on people step up we can do this.........
Its time we make a stand for what we want to play.... As my sig says.. start worrying about what others play and why and dont just play
Sorry, been playing EVE. Which is where I will remain till things change. Pathfinder looks good. Wurm left me cold. Will check back later.
Currently bored with MMO's.
so let me get this right... you are fed up with how games are being made so your idea is to get everyone to pay money to a game they very well may not enjoy just because it has mechanics you like??
thats like telling everyone to be a veggan then making them spend a month eating nothing but raw meat.... because meat has mechanics veggies dont have and should have...
frankly i have looked at EVE and its not for me. its too much of a gank-fest for my tastes if you actually manage to get people to pay money to eve because of your idea... great... though it wont change any thing other then a bunch of people will throw money to CCP for no reason just because of 1 or 2 mechanics people want in say AOC.....
which really wont put said mechanic in any game...
SWG is the best Sandbox of all time. The focus should to support SOE to make another MMO similar to that.
The Internet is a sandbox is it not?
IS IT NOT?
Online games should also be sandboxes. Consoles should be for little story games where you let Mr. Dev tell you a half assed story.
100% of the time players are more entertaining than developers. 100% of the time sandboxes are better than little baby themeparks.
Take SWTOR for example. Holy. Fucking. Shit. They told a C story where the main feature was not playing a game, it was watching little movie clips. Watching little a little movies about NPCs. And they called that an online game.
EVE doesn't feel like much of that ideal sandbox experience a lot of posters here are looking for. Sure, there's plenty of "sand", but very little in the way of tools to actually have fun in the game outside of the simplistic economic system and PvP. Also, the whole legal system is ridiculous, a real sandbox title would never have an inescable force like Concord deterring involuntary PvP. I mean, I like the whole concept of faction based PvP and all, but I really don't think subbing to them is going to encourage devs to make the next Ultima Online or something.
The game is open for discussion. And its more of a statment that enough people are willing to Suffer and pay because how the Industry is today. We want a NEW shiny game that is FUN.. and we are willing to suport any company that We RESPECT!!.. so our Money Is a donation to their Cause. You understand what Im getting at here. Rewards for being GREAT.. even if the product might not be just what we want. WE WANT THE SANDBOX freedom the game has....
Develpers all think we want WoW 2,0 but I dont think that we do? do you? But unless a sandbox start getting some Numbers they wont make them you get what Im saying here?. If EvE had 10m subs and WoW had 400k all we would get were EvE clones... you follow me. So this thread is for people who want sandbox mechanics back. And to get them we need to use the numbers game...
Read above post if a sandbox had made it big like WoW all we would have gotten for the past 8 years were more sandboxes. So people who want the mechanics back need to start voting with their Wallets. And a combined effort is better then nothing. ANd this is a test to see how many would like to give it a try..
Reason I made this is becuase everyone here Is mostly unhappy with how the genre turned out. Everyday there are new post about how the glory days were better. And Im telling you all if we dont want to play Clones untill the day we die we need to step up and do something.
And this goes for people that are also tired of the Themepark clone games that have been going on for the past 8 years. If you are a themepark player and want something new.. you should also suport this... Its a Statment that we are Not happy. We want change...
What that change should be can be debated later but the fact is many of us want a Change.. And WoW did a good jobb of bringing old mechanics back to life. Maybe a new developer should do the same? Change up old mechanics and make a better game. But not COPYijng WoW.. but instead try to do something diffrent... There are lots of old mechanics that have been left to die... Most of them had to do with community... Lets try and bring them back
If we wanted to make a statement, we'd start a Kickstarter campaign for an indie sandbox dev and get them enough funding to push their development process into overdrive.
I'd certainly be willing to donate to one if it was going to be based on what hardcore MMO fans wanted than a group of ignorant suits...
I voted yes, but I would say pick a sandbox or sandboxish game that seems to be trying to do things right, but is struggling...The subs would mean more to them, even if it was for a month only....
I am looking forward to some of the hybrid releases, that do incorporate more sandbox.
We just need to show some sort of Backing for the Sandbox/hybrid genre. And also show that we are not happy were the industry is going. SO spread this around amongst your friends...
Sandbox mechanics could be put in, not nessisarily needed but could be used, it all depends on how the game is designed.
Should old sandbox mechanics be used? No... not at all, not without being refined and fixed. Lets not kid ourselves, those old sandbox mechanics haven't been 'reapplied' becuase they are flawed. A huge issue in sandbox when its done to much is that those few players at top no lifing it suddenly have such a huge one up on everyone that, why should anyone play?
There is just no reason at all when a game has such imbalance to even bother starting. Its a huge issue really with anything that goes hard into sandbox play trying to let the players have full control.
After the NGE I once said I would play a Star Wars version of WoW (themepark) MMo as long as it wasn't made by SOE and it was based on Star Wars. I followed SWTOR, supported BioWare's every move blindly....now after playing it I know it's not what I wanted. I want a Sandbox MMO...It's the reason I even started playing MMOs. I hated them, until I tried SWG. I thought they were slow paced, linear and boring. Once SWG went to sh!t I conformed, now I'm here to say I will no longer be a sheeple for the MMO industry like some assimilated Borg. I want sandbox game play worthy of my money, and if I have to wait another decade or two for something to come along, so be it.