Lately I am considering this game more as a coop than as an actual MMO.
This is not trying to flame the game or any similar thing.
Actually, if you had asked me some months ago, I would have said that I had no interested in playing GW2 just becouse there is no dedicated healer. My main in any MMO that I have played has always been a healer. I just love the role. And not having the possibility of playing a dedicated healer was putting me off.
However, if I look at it from a kind of "Diabloish" perspective, then things look really interesting. Few but meaning skills, the non-instanced non-persistent content scales up with the size of the party, randomly generated encounters, and you can do stuff solo at any time but fun and rewards are better with bigger teams. Those things made Diablo a great game and will probably make GW2 a great one too.
And trust me I am not trying to start that so old "it's not an actual MMO" argument, becouse I honestly couldn't care less.
most don't seem to understand that if you like playing a full heal / support class you still can and most groups will welcome you with opens arms.
There is going to be a need in every group for someone to focus more on support / aoe heals / aoe buffs while others focus on cc / damage mitigation / damage dealing.
That being said if you feel like specing more into a support / heal type please do so we need people like you.
The "no dedicated healer" does not mean it wont be needed the role is just now playable among ALL professions not just one specific profession.
I have not joined he GW2 forums and I will not being buying this game. I do not comment on GW2, I am only here to comment on the Trinity. I know you wont miss me come launch. But those who don’t learn from history, make the same mistakes repeatedly.
So if the game turns out to be a financial and critical success, are you going to come back and apologize and abase yourself?
Because if it turns out to be a complete failure, I'll totally come over here and apologize for thinking the game was going to be good.
Hopefully you can manage to the do the same if the inverse is true.
Nope. Durring that time period I was paying for eleven ( 11 ) subs. I bought games that I have yet to install and try out. I repeat, I bought GW 1, the two expansions, and two ( 2 ) extra charater slots. I realize that it was a financial and critical success, and ammounts to a re-skinning of a game series ( Diablo ) that I played for years. But I also consider it to be in my top five ( 5 ) worst gaming experiences.
Again I didn't come here to comment on GW2. You and every one that will buy and play it, Enjoy, have fun, more power to ya. Bye, bye.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Lately I am considering this game more as a coop than as an actual MMO.
This is not trying to flame the game or any similar thing.
Actually, if you had asked me some months ago, I would have said that I had no interested in playing GW2 just becouse there is no dedicated healer. My main in any MMO that I have played has always been a healer. I just love the role. And not having the possibility of playing a dedicated healer was putting me off.
However, if I look at it from a kind of "Diabloish" perspective, then things look really interesting. Few but meaning skills, the non-instanced non-persistent content scales up with the size of the party, randomly generated encounters, and you can do stuff solo at any time but fun and rewards are better with bigger teams. Those things made Diablo a great game and will probably make GW2 a great one too.
And trust me I am not trying to start that so old "it's not an actual MMO" argument, becouse I honestly couldn't care less.
I wonder, is monster play what makes LOTRO an mmorpg?
The proper answer to his wondering should be what fiontar posted a few answers above.
no monster play does not make LotRo an mmorpg but maybe the fact that you need more then just yourself to do any of the end game dungeons as well as you needed a full variety of professions to complete the said dungeons.
"Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world." sooooo yes imo I'd say LoTro constitutes as being a MMORPG. its massive its multiplayer and its RPG.
connecting this comment to the OP:
Without a bard, and or rune keeper, dedicated healer roles, it was impossible to do any end game major content. its defintely not a single player game...
Sounds like your problem wasn't healers, so much as bad healers. Hate to break it to you, but there will be bad players in GW2 as well. I blame you for continually allowing your time to be wasted by baddies.
Just want to play a game with my friends where none of us are FORCED into healing.
And if you play with a pickup group, well.. then it's the player's own fault when they die, because they have no healers to blaim for not healing them when they do stupid mistakes.
Well, from the looks of somebody that has not played the game (obviously) it seems that GW2 is allowing for a very relaxed gameplay. What I mean is that there is absolutely no pressure to play any good, you can goof around and noone will notice or maybe care. It could be different in the dungeons, but the dynamic events seem to be what one would expect from playing coop Diablo, aka a sum of players doing their thing, each on their own.
Well ... this issue isn't really about what roles are or are not supported by the ACTUAL game design, it will be about the masses THINK is supported. What I'm getting at is a lot of people seem to keep saying "you don't have to play a dedicated healer but you can kinda spec that way if you want" ... well, if people think that there are specs that make you a better healer, then they could decide it is a NEEDED spec for a successful group (even if that's not true), and mob-mentality sets in. I played a shaman in WoW and before getting into a guild, I couldn't convince most people that we could run an instance with a single shaman healer (which I did successfully dozens of times). A lot of people insisted you had to have a priest. I had a druid also and some people would refuse to do a run with 'only' a druid healing, or with 2 shamans!
So, I'm hoping the dev team makes sure that what is necessary and possible is very understandable by the average player.
I'll start by saying I play mostly support roles and dabbled in tanking in mmo's, so I have a bias to e-peen stroking dps whores , so take this with a grain of salt, but I can clearly imagine many people getting into pick up groups and automatically assuming they are the dps guy and never bother to slot healing in any kind of group support way. Sure, they may not blame you if they die, but that doesn't stop them from getting tunnel vision and causing the group to fail, thinking the whole time "well I was doing my job". Ya I know a bunch of you are all like "well I never stoop to pugging, I just play with my guild" but in every good guild I've been in, there's still cool people I like playing with who don't understand most of capabilities of the other classes or what is really doable in the game. Of course they are easier to convince, so I'm not super worried about this problem personally.
I want to see a change from the healer-tank dynamic, so I hope Anet gets it right, but just as much I hope the player base truly understands and doesn't try to force a square peg in a round hole. People will always take the path of perceived least resistance
You are presenting your argument as though slightly better healer equates to dedicated healer. It does not.
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I worry that you won't understand that, though. And that thought bothers me, so let me elaborate.
A healer heals and does nothing else. In a game like WoW, you can spec to be an amazing healer, which allows you to be dedicated. In GW2, you can spec to be a slightly better healer, but input via other roles is still required for successful combat. You can be slightly better at other things, but you're still hybridised. You'll still have to fulfil other roles.
What you're saying is that someone can be a dedicated healer by being a slightly better healer. It won't work.
Let's say that your GW2 dedicated healer has a mob fighting them. In WoW you just sit there and wait for someone to pull it off you whilst heal spamming yourself. Do that in GW2? You die. You die, you die, you die. You have to lay down some crowd control at that point and actually do some damage to help deal with the mob, you do this whilst healing.
You can spec to be a slightly better anything, but you can't spec to be a dedicated anything.
Why is that so hard to understand?
---
Here's another thought for you.
A person who's specced damage could be a better healer in GW2 than someone who's specced to heal.
How could that work?
A lot of Guild Wars 2 is strategy, it's all about when you use your skills. If someone is specced for damage but they fire off their heals at just the right time, then they're going to do more healing than the guy who's being slightly clumsy with it and specced into it. Plus, the entire party needs to do healing even if one person is specced into slightly better healing. If the entire party does not use their healing abilities, the group wipes.
Are you beginning to understand? It's forced hybridisation where anyone can do any task but you can be slightly better at it. Look at warrior loadouts or Elementalist attunements and you may begin to understand it. Everyone has to contribute something to all the roles in order for the group to be successful.
I have watched a lot of videos from the press over the past few weeks. The trinity is still alive in this game but the lines have grayed a little. There are still classes that will tank better than others and there will be players that will spec more into tank then the next guy and will find a roll in this game because of it. Same with healing, some classes do it better and some people will spec to do so and find teams because of it. Only difference in this MMO is that you can get away from a main healer and tank a lot more then you would in another MMO. There will be a few types of teams in this game.
1. Everyone plays support 25% of the time and the team wins
2. 25-50% of the team plays mostly support and the team wins
3. Everyone looks after themselves and just manages to win
4. Epic fail because no one played support
But dont fool your self the trinity is here just a little differenly done is all.
Comments
most don't seem to understand that if you like playing a full heal / support class you still can and most groups will welcome you with opens arms.
There is going to be a need in every group for someone to focus more on support / aoe heals / aoe buffs while others focus on cc / damage mitigation / damage dealing.
That being said if you feel like specing more into a support / heal type please do so we need people like you.
The "no dedicated healer" does not mean it wont be needed the role is just now playable among ALL professions not just one specific profession.
Nope. Durring that time period I was paying for eleven ( 11 ) subs. I bought games that I have yet to install and try out. I repeat, I bought GW 1, the two expansions, and two ( 2 ) extra charater slots. I realize that it was a financial and critical success, and ammounts to a re-skinning of a game series ( Diablo ) that I played for years. But I also consider it to be in my top five ( 5 ) worst gaming experiences.
Again I didn't come here to comment on GW2. You and every one that will buy and play it, Enjoy, have fun, more power to ya. Bye, bye.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. The game definitely doesn't look like an MMO. Can't be an MMO without them heals.
I wonder, is monster play what makes LOTRO an mmorpg?
The proper answer to his wondering should be what fiontar posted a few answers above.
no monster play does not make LotRo an mmorpg but maybe the fact that you need more then just yourself to do any of the end game dungeons as well as you needed a full variety of professions to complete the said dungeons.
"Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world." sooooo yes imo I'd say LoTro constitutes as being a MMORPG. its massive its multiplayer and its RPG.
connecting this comment to the OP:
Without a bard, and or rune keeper, dedicated healer roles, it was impossible to do any end game major content. its defintely not a single player game...
Just want to play a game with my friends where none of us are FORCED into healing.
And if you play with a pickup group, well.. then it's the player's own fault when they die, because they have no healers to blaim for not healing them when they do stupid mistakes.
Well, from the looks of somebody that has not played the game (obviously) it seems that GW2 is allowing for a very relaxed gameplay. What I mean is that there is absolutely no pressure to play any good, you can goof around and noone will notice or maybe care. It could be different in the dungeons, but the dynamic events seem to be what one would expect from playing coop Diablo, aka a sum of players doing their thing, each on their own.
Well ... this issue isn't really about what roles are or are not supported by the ACTUAL game design, it will be about the masses THINK is supported. What I'm getting at is a lot of people seem to keep saying "you don't have to play a dedicated healer but you can kinda spec that way if you want" ... well, if people think that there are specs that make you a better healer, then they could decide it is a NEEDED spec for a successful group (even if that's not true), and mob-mentality sets in. I played a shaman in WoW and before getting into a guild, I couldn't convince most people that we could run an instance with a single shaman healer (which I did successfully dozens of times). A lot of people insisted you had to have a priest. I had a druid also and some people would refuse to do a run with 'only' a druid healing, or with 2 shamans!
So, I'm hoping the dev team makes sure that what is necessary and possible is very understandable by the average player.
I'll start by saying I play mostly support roles and dabbled in tanking in mmo's, so I have a bias to e-peen stroking dps whores
, so take this with a grain of salt, but I can clearly imagine many people getting into pick up groups and automatically assuming they are the dps guy and never bother to slot healing in any kind of group support way. Sure, they may not blame you if they die, but that doesn't stop them from getting tunnel vision and causing the group to fail, thinking the whole time "well I was doing my job". Ya I know a bunch of you are all like "well I never stoop to pugging, I just play with my guild" but in every good guild I've been in, there's still cool people I like playing with who don't understand most of capabilities of the other classes or what is really doable in the game. Of course they are easier to convince, so I'm not super worried about this problem personally.
I want to see a change from the healer-tank dynamic, so I hope Anet gets it right, but just as much I hope the player base truly understands and doesn't try to force a square peg in a round hole. People will always take the path of perceived least resistance
Logic failure.
You are presenting your argument as though slightly better healer equates to dedicated healer. It does not.
---
I worry that you won't understand that, though. And that thought bothers me, so let me elaborate.
A healer heals and does nothing else. In a game like WoW, you can spec to be an amazing healer, which allows you to be dedicated. In GW2, you can spec to be a slightly better healer, but input via other roles is still required for successful combat. You can be slightly better at other things, but you're still hybridised. You'll still have to fulfil other roles.
What you're saying is that someone can be a dedicated healer by being a slightly better healer. It won't work.
Let's say that your GW2 dedicated healer has a mob fighting them. In WoW you just sit there and wait for someone to pull it off you whilst heal spamming yourself. Do that in GW2? You die. You die, you die, you die. You have to lay down some crowd control at that point and actually do some damage to help deal with the mob, you do this whilst healing.
You can spec to be a slightly better anything, but you can't spec to be a dedicated anything.
Why is that so hard to understand?
---
Here's another thought for you.
A person who's specced damage could be a better healer in GW2 than someone who's specced to heal.
How could that work?
A lot of Guild Wars 2 is strategy, it's all about when you use your skills. If someone is specced for damage but they fire off their heals at just the right time, then they're going to do more healing than the guy who's being slightly clumsy with it and specced into it. Plus, the entire party needs to do healing even if one person is specced into slightly better healing. If the entire party does not use their healing abilities, the group wipes.
Are you beginning to understand? It's forced hybridisation where anyone can do any task but you can be slightly better at it. Look at warrior loadouts or Elementalist attunements and you may begin to understand it. Everyone has to contribute something to all the roles in order for the group to be successful.
I have watched a lot of videos from the press over the past few weeks. The trinity is still alive in this game but the lines have grayed a little. There are still classes that will tank better than others and there will be players that will spec more into tank then the next guy and will find a roll in this game because of it. Same with healing, some classes do it better and some people will spec to do so and find teams because of it. Only difference in this MMO is that you can get away from a main healer and tank a lot more then you would in another MMO. There will be a few types of teams in this game.
1. Everyone plays support 25% of the time and the team wins
2. 25-50% of the team plays mostly support and the team wins
3. Everyone looks after themselves and just manages to win
4. Epic fail because no one played support
But dont fool your self the trinity is here just a little differenly done is all.