With free server transfers I don't see a reason why they couldn't have one that was just FFA PvP for hits and iggles in terms of playability, etc. Still it would take time and support and even though it would be optional people would still cry about it and cause a big ordeal. Just not worth the headache to them I would imagine.
Anet hasn't ignored these types of players, in fact, they have thought about them quite extensivley in the design of the game. They actually went out of their way to exclude these groups and disarm their anti-social behaviors in a social game.
Greifers can't greif, gankers have to face their equals, bots will be constantly overrun by DE's and the non ability to dodge damage, multiboxers will get overrun by scaling, gold farmers will be mad when they discover the best items in game are Kharma currency only...and many many more we haven't seen yet I am sure.
In other words OP, Anet already gave you a lot of thought. How to grief the griefers. So I wouldn't hold my breath for them to make life enjoyable for you. They pretty much drew a sign at the door that said, not welcome.
How would an optional server "bastardize" the game? Almost every MMO has a FFA PVP server.
A lot of you "civlized" PvE folks are acting like total snobs. "No it's NOT possible because I don't like it!"
read before you respond. your question was answered before you posted.
it has to do with marketing, and mechanics.
short version:
marketing; it would alienate target market and create brand confusion.
mechanics; in order to make it possible, a ton of code would have to be rewritten and added. what you are proposing isn't a horrible idea, if properly developed. but can they afford to do it?
Conjecture : They wouldn't have to market the PvP server so I don't see how it'd hurt the "brand". It could only bring in more people.
and to the second, wrong.
PvP is a boolean value. On, or off. No rewritten code.
Now, if they wanted to go full bore and make a really good FFA PVP server by reworking all the mechanics, THAT'D take a lot. But that's not what the OP is asking for. The OP is only asking for a server like Mordred. Know what the only difference between Mordred and normal servers was? After level 20, anyone could attack you. And that's it. No other differences.
Good God, you really hove no idea do you?
Adding enjoyable FFA is far from "just turning it on". To make FFA work, it has to be considered in every design step along the way.
Jesus sweet CHRIST. I KNOW THIS. I'VE SAID THIS LIKE THREE TIMES IN THE THREAD.
READ WHAT THE OP ASKED. HE ASKED FOR A MORDRED. NOT A PVP SANDBOX. MORDRED WAS A NORMAL SERVER WITH PVP TURNED ON. Please people, don't come into a thread you're entirely ignorant about.
So i have to laugh at the pvp people defending their right to gank "noobs"
let me just remind you people that the whole POINT of GW2 according to the Devs actions with this game's design is to eliminate all of the negatives of the mmo genre in one game, literally.
separated pve pvp code so when pvp is adjusted pve won't be affected
pve only servers so some idiot won't be hanging out ganking people
none traditional trinity so people can find groups without que times
etc etc
the list goes on, this is just another example of one of those fixes to the genre that anet is doing with this game and it's the reason why it's so exciting to most of us.
Originally posted by Volkon
Hmm... come to think of it, OP would probably soil himself and rage-quit when he went to gank a 1-15 zone and found himself levelled down and wiped out by a couple low-levels.
But again... it would break the system... the work they'd have to do recoding dynamic events for scaling purposes, loot distribution, AoE damage effects, etc are simply not worth it, especially when the Mists beckon.
Nowhere in this thread has anybody thats Pro-FFA metioned or even hinted at anything related to "ganking noobs" as a motive.
So i have to laugh at the pvp people defending their right to gank "noobs"
let me just remind you people that the whole POINT of GW2 according to the Devs actions with this game's design is to eliminate all of the negatives of the mmo genre in one game, literally.
separated pve pvp code so when pvp is adjusted pve won't be affected
pve only servers so some idiot won't be hanging out ganking people
none traditional trinity so people can find groups without que times
etc etc
the list goes on, this is just another example of one of those fixes to the genre that anet is doing with this game and it's the reason why it's so exciting to most of us.
Originally posted by Volkon
Hmm... come to think of it, OP would probably soil himself and rage-quit when he went to gank a 1-15 zone and found himself levelled down and wiped out by a couple low-levels.
But again... it would break the system... the work they'd have to do recoding dynamic events for scaling purposes, loot distribution, AoE damage effects, etc are simply not worth it, especially when the Mists beckon.
Nowhere in this thread has anybody thats Pro-FFA metioned or even hinted at anything related to "ganking noobs" as a motive.
WIth an entire, massive World v World PvP system in place, there can be no other necessity for open PvP in the PvE world. If the OP wants truly open PvP, there's the Mists. If he wants to do it in the PvE world, it's for ganking. Everything he wants is in the Mists... except ganking.
Of course, the levelling down would break his ganking too... the tears would fuel me for ages.
Anet hasn't ignored these types of players, in fact, they have thought about them quite extensivley in the design of the game. They actually went out of their way to exclude these groups and disarm their anti-social behaviors in a social game.
How is PvP an anti social behavior?
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Garvon3
PvP is a boolean value. On, or off. No rewritten code.
You're wrong, in GW2. Some things to consider: No ally targeting and shared experience and loot for cooperative play, like in dynamic events. If you allow open world PvP you screw with these systems... how can you tell if someone is acting like an ally, helping with a dynamic event, or an enemy and should be taking AoE damage and be targetable?
It's real easy. The people in your group are allies. Those not in your group aren't. If someone is out in the world and you don't want to hurt them, don't drop an AoE on them. I get the impression almost none of you have ever played a PvP game and you don't see how it'll work.
I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being a PvP server. Almost every MMO ever has had one despite it going "against what the MMO stands for".
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
good lord I wake up and the nonsense is STILL flowing from Garvon. To answer your question even though I already have and you have gone in yet another circle.... It is antisocial because attacking someone isnt considered social behavior. Duels sure... killing someone for no reason... no.
If there's a will, anything is possible. In this case, there is no will from Anet to do this. They seem to be making the best game that they can following their vision. FFA PvP is not part of that vision. I win, you lose, this time.
*bad analogy alert time*
If I want a cookie, I'll take the best cookie. Same with cake. I'll never ask someone who decided to make a cookie to somehow add cake to it.
You remember all the hubbub about Friends not having black people? Yeah, those are white people, writing about white people lives...they don't know jack shit about writing about black people. Unless you want to see watermelon and chicken wings jokes.
How bout the Fresh Prince of Bellaire? All the white people on the show couldn't dance or play basketball.
Yea...(insane transition) let's not add FFA PVP to GW2.
So i have to laugh at the pvp people defending their right to gank "noobs"
let me just remind you people that the whole POINT of GW2 according to the Devs actions with this game's design is to eliminate all of the negatives of the mmo genre in one game, literally.
separated pve pvp code so when pvp is adjusted pve won't be affected
pve only servers so some idiot won't be hanging out ganking people
none traditional trinity so people can find groups without que times
etc etc
the list goes on, this is just another example of one of those fixes to the genre that anet is doing with this game and it's the reason why it's so exciting to most of us.
Originally posted by Volkon
Hmm... come to think of it, OP would probably soil himself and rage-quit when he went to gank a 1-15 zone and found himself levelled down and wiped out by a couple low-levels.
But again... it would break the system... the work they'd have to do recoding dynamic events for scaling purposes, loot distribution, AoE damage effects, etc are simply not worth it, especially when the Mists beckon.
Nowhere in this thread has anybody thats Pro-FFA metioned or even hinted at anything related to "ganking noobs" as a motive.
WIth an entire, massive World v World PvP system in place, there can be no other necessity for open PvP in the PvE world. If the OP wants truly open PvP, there's the Mists
You PvPphobes are starting to drive me nuts. How are the mists more open PvP than a FFA PVP server? (Hint, its not)
And if you think FFA only exists for "ganking newbs" than I guess you've never played a FFA PVP MMO. But go on ignorantly shaking your head and going "my word, these gankers are mad!"
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
Anet hasn't ignored these types of players, in fact, they have thought about them quite extensivley in the design of the game. They actually went out of their way to exclude these groups and disarm their anti-social behaviors in a social game.
How is PvP an anti social behavior?
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Garvon3
PvP is a boolean value. On, or off. No rewritten code.
You're wrong, in GW2. Some things to consider: No ally targeting and shared experience and loot for cooperative play, like in dynamic events. If you allow open world PvP you screw with these systems... how can you tell if someone is acting like an ally, helping with a dynamic event, or an enemy and should be taking AoE damage and be targetable?
It's real easy. The people in your group are allies. Those not in your group aren't. If someone is out in the world and you don't want to hurt them, don't drop an AoE on them. I get the impression almost none of you have ever played a PvP game and you don't see how it'll work.
I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being a PvP server. Almost every MMO ever has had one despite it going "against what the MMO stands for".
So they'd have to recode the grouping mechanisms then, and recode the way dynamic events work as well with regards to contributions and rewards. You claiming these types of code changes are "real easy" demonstrates a complete ignorance of the entire concept.
I ran a wormhole corp in a major wormhole alliance in Eve... I'm familiar with PvP. There's a system that's designed for it, and it works quite well. GW2, not designed for it, would require significant changes, won't happen regardless so arguing the point is silly.
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
there is no "low" lvl in GW2... you get changed to w/e zone you are in... that doesnt change the fact that the only reason why people want open PVP is to gank the unwarry or unready. NO ONE practices honorable open world PVP.
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
there is no "low" lvl in GW2... you get changed to w/e zone you are in... that doesnt change the fact that the only reason why people want open PVP is to gank the unwarry or unready. NO ONE practices honorable open world PVP.
I've played 3 FFA PVP games in my life. Never am I the one who ganks other people. I like FFA PVP because it adds danger and dynamic feelings to the world. It makes it more like a real place, encourages people to work together, and on top of it all, I can find PVP whenever and wherever I want. I've never ganked a lowbie. I have been ganked many times before.
GASP, DID I JUST BLOW YOUR WORLD? A USE FOR PVP OUTSIDE OF GANKING PEOPLE?
Please, stop trying to preach to people about how their game type is played when you've clearly never played them.
If PVP was just "switched on", I think the game would be unplayable.
For one thing, there's no need to target in GW2. A lot of abilities hit whatever is in their area of effect. I don't even know if you could have multiple players meleeing a mob without collateral damage, not to mention dodgng out of the way of a mob and right into someone else's path.
Right now playing the game fills up the battlefield with different colors of AoEs so you know Red harms you, White has no effect and Blue benefits you. With PVP on, pretty much every area on the ground is going to harm you. A lot of cross profession combos would be unplayable or give wacky results like Stomp in an ice field to send enemies flying but also give them bonus armor.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
There's a big difference in games designed for FFA PvP and those not. Eve is designed for it... the game would be unplayable without it. GW2 is designed without it, the game would be unplayable with it. Completely different concept at their core.
You sound like you should give Eve a try if you haven't already. Nothing like that sphincter-clenching sensation you get when you're minding your own business in a wormhole and suddenly you hear that target locking sound...
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
There's a big difference in games designed for FFA PvP and those not. Eve is designed for it... the game would be unplayable without it. GW2 is designed without it, the game would be unplayable with it. Completely different concept at their core.
You sound like you should give Eve a try if you haven't already. Nothing like that sphincter-clenching sensation you get when you're minding your own business in a wormhole and suddenly you hear that target locking sound...
The OP is not asking for a game designed around FFA PVP. Please stay on topic. He's asking for a PVP server like Mordred which is just the normal ruleset with PvP turned on.
The reason that the OP of this thread and folks like that won't go and play EvE or WvWvW is because they know that they'll be up against skilled players.
<removed a bunch of ad hominem in the interest of space>
Look, either learn to play and PvP with the pros in WvWvW, or do PvE like the rest of us dirty peons.
People may not play EvE because they don't like sci-fi. They WILL play WvW. I'm curious why you think it'll be so different from factional PvP servers. If you think people won't roll around in large groups killing small groups that are comparatively helpess, imo you're loco.
Originally posted by Garvon3
Uh.. pro tip. If you don't want to have people interrupt you from "trying to enjoy the game" then don't play on the PvP server? How all you people can get this worked up over a server that will have absolutely NO impact on you at all blows my mind and then reminds me why the MMO genre is doomed.
I laughed, lol.
Originally posted by Sideras
Why does every MMO today need some form of FFA Anarchist sandbox mode? See how well it went in AoC. Guild politics, yeah I'm all for that but you have to agree it's quite a complex system to get right.
I enjoyed FFA in AoC. -shrugh-
Originally posted by Volkon
Hmm... come to think of it, OP would probably soil himself and rage-quit when he went to gank a 1-15 zone and found himself levelled down and wiped out by a couple low-levels.
Pssst...your self-righteous bigotry is showing.
Originally posted by Volkon
WIth an entire, massive World v World PvP system in place, there can be no other necessity for open PvP in the PvE world. If the OP wants truly open PvP, there's the Mists. If he wants to do it in the PvE world, it's for ganking. Everything he wants is in the Mists... except ganking.
Of course, the levelling down would break his ganking too... the tears would fuel me for ages.
Well, everything except for being able to PvP everywhere in the gorgeous world Anet has fashioned.
Now, again, I'm not saying that this an FFA server in GW2 is really plausible. But I really, really don't get why so many people who don't enjoy that ruleset (AND WOULD NOT BE FORCED TO PLAY THERE) engage "prig mode" every time the ruleset comes up. You guys are the ones being antisocial asses here, not the people asking for that ruleset.
The OP is not asking for a game designed around FFA PVP. Please stay on topic. He's asking for a PVP server like Mordred which is just the normal ruleset with PvP turned on.
Except, due to game design which you're adept at ignoring, it isn't as simply as "PvP turned on".
Doesn't matter, what the OP wants the OP will not get. Not worth arguing over.
The OP is not asking for a game designed around FFA PVP. Please stay on topic. He's asking for a PVP server like Mordred which is just the normal ruleset with PvP turned on.
Except, due to game design which you're adept at ignoring, it isn't as simply as "PvP turned on".
Doesn't matter, what the OP wants the OP will not get. Not worth arguing over.
(shrugs) Some people want something so bad, they're willing to ignore the concept of 'quality' or 'game design' to get it.
Just ignore it and move on. You want quality, I want quality, they don't think quality is an important feature in a game.
Ok, I read through 3/4 of the thread, and I feel like weighing in now...
Here is the deal.
Picture raiding in WoW. I didn't do any past BC, but up to that point... Now imagine that all AoEs hit your party members and team-mates as well as the enemy. How well would that work for you?
Lets take GW2. You have a dynamic event. The dynamic event scales in difficulty based on how many people are there. A boss pops. so here are a couple of things to consider:
1) The boss(and the rest of the event) gets hard for each person who is there
2) Not everyone will be doing the event, some of them will be sniping or ganking people trying to do the event(which is getting needlessly harder).
3) Multiple groups all trying to do the same event will be getting in each others' way and hitting each other even if not intended.
Morder worked in DAOC because it used a traditional questing: Collect quest, go farm static mobs, return quest.
Mordred added another several new paths:
a) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, go do a different quest and come back later
b) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, fight them, keep coming back and fighting them over and over.
c) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, kill them, return quest.
d) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, kill them, get jumped again(often by the same guy(s)), kill them again, repeat.
e) Go jump people who are questing
f) Gank lowbies who are trying to quest
Unfortunately that model does not work with the questing model that they have in GW2...
There are other mechanics that make it prohibitive as well, but this post is already getting too long. To all the people saying "hey, just turn on the pvp flag and you don't need to do anything else"... Yeah, yeah you do. To all the peolpe who used the example of DAOC, saying that all they did on Mordred was turn on the PvP flags... really? that is all you remember? Tell me, how did they handle relics on Mordred? How did they handle DF on Mordred? How about access to the other realms? And that is just the tip of the iceberg...
DAOC had to make changes in order to accomodate that ruleset, including changes to their existing PvP structure.
GW2's very nature will require a lot more all-encompassing changes to make that work, and I sincerely doubt they will go to the extent of figuring out all the changes they need to make, coding them, and trying to keep it functional, balanced and fun... For what will probably be the population of one server, or less... If they have a huge demand for it, they might. But they don't, and they won't. When you hear peolpe waxing nostalgic about DAOC, you don't hear them saying "yeah, and remember when I ganked that level 36 Eld farming mammoths in mid?" You hear them talking about realm pride, and RvR, and relic raids, and keep sieges, etc, etc. That is what they are trying to bring back, and that is what people want.
That feeling of nostalgia you feel for old games can rarely be satisfied by going back to the old game, because you've been ruined by the conveniences and features of new games. It is like getting a 1950s car cause you like the vintage look... but you find that you don't like getting 5 miles to the gallon and having to rebuild the engine often and actually having a timing belt and having to get it tuned up, etc... You want the vintage look on a modern car. They are giving us the features that we are nostalgic for, but for 2012 rather than 2001.
I see. So its the "I don't like your play style so it should not be accomodated!" argument. Almost none of the games that have FFA PVP are built for it, yet people still play those MMOs and enjoy those servers.
It's the "The developer doesn't want it and there are plenty of other games which have it" argument. Play WvWvW or don't play at all is my advice.
I myself don't want to play on a FFA PVP server. But others do, and there's no reason why they shouldn't just because some of the crazies on these forums are afraid of the idea of PvP.
Show me where the developers say they don't want it. So far all I'm reading are posters who don't want it, even though it has no impact on them.
As for why "every MMO today needs FFA sandbox mode" almost every MMO since the dawn of the genre have had FFA servers.
Well different servers require different code. Now before some expert who has writen 2 hello programs comes in to tell us it doesn't take much effort, it actually does take effort. Effort that would take away from other development. The ROI has to be higher to make specialized servers worth it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The OP is not asking for a game designed around FFA PVP. Please stay on topic. He's asking for a PVP server like Mordred which is just the normal ruleset with PvP turned on.
Except, due to game design which you're adept at ignoring, it isn't as simply as "PvP turned on".
Doesn't matter, what the OP wants the OP will not get. Not worth arguing over.
(shrugs) Some people want something so bad, they're willing to ignore the concept of 'quality' or 'game design' to get it.
Just ignore it and move on. You want quality, I want quality, they don't think quality is an important feature in a game.
It's just a difference of opinion.
They only want quality when it suits their needs, i.e when they can use it to complain. If they were to give them FFA and it sucks, they would be the first to whine about it. You gotta love the minds of clueless individuals, i.e Garvon3.
You can't just 'turn on' FFA PvP in a game that's designed from the ground up to be about cooperative gameplay and characters interacting together, rather than apart.
I can understand somebody wanting FFA PvP. That's fine (Though it's not going to happen). ... but to suggest it's just like some little switch that you can flip, is pretty naive. Or requires not caring about quality at ALL.
Games work better when the systems are designed to work together. That's... not really hypocritical or elitist of me to point that out.
Comments
With free server transfers I don't see a reason why they couldn't have one that was just FFA PvP for hits and iggles in terms of playability, etc. Still it would take time and support and even though it would be optional people would still cry about it and cause a big ordeal. Just not worth the headache to them I would imagine.
Anet hasn't ignored these types of players, in fact, they have thought about them quite extensivley in the design of the game. They actually went out of their way to exclude these groups and disarm their anti-social behaviors in a social game.
Greifers can't greif, gankers have to face their equals, bots will be constantly overrun by DE's and the non ability to dodge damage, multiboxers will get overrun by scaling, gold farmers will be mad when they discover the best items in game are Kharma currency only...and many many more we haven't seen yet I am sure.
In other words OP, Anet already gave you a lot of thought. How to grief the griefers. So I wouldn't hold my breath for them to make life enjoyable for you. They pretty much drew a sign at the door that said, not welcome.
Jesus sweet CHRIST. I KNOW THIS. I'VE SAID THIS LIKE THREE TIMES IN THE THREAD.
READ WHAT THE OP ASKED. HE ASKED FOR A MORDRED. NOT A PVP SANDBOX. MORDRED WAS A NORMAL SERVER WITH PVP TURNED ON. Please people, don't come into a thread you're entirely ignorant about.
Nowhere in this thread has anybody thats Pro-FFA metioned or even hinted at anything related to "ganking noobs" as a motive.
WIth an entire, massive World v World PvP system in place, there can be no other necessity for open PvP in the PvE world. If the OP wants truly open PvP, there's the Mists. If he wants to do it in the PvE world, it's for ganking. Everything he wants is in the Mists... except ganking.
Of course, the levelling down would break his ganking too... the tears would fuel me for ages.
Oderint, dum metuant.
How is PvP an anti social behavior?
It's real easy. The people in your group are allies. Those not in your group aren't. If someone is out in the world and you don't want to hurt them, don't drop an AoE on them. I get the impression almost none of you have ever played a PvP game and you don't see how it'll work.
I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being a PvP server. Almost every MMO ever has had one despite it going "against what the MMO stands for".
I just thought of another reason why PVP outsode the mists would be bad. Players drop loot. People would farm players just to be jerks.
good lord I wake up and the nonsense is STILL flowing from Garvon. To answer your question even though I already have and you have gone in yet another circle.... It is antisocial because attacking someone isnt considered social behavior. Duels sure... killing someone for no reason... no.
If there's a will, anything is possible. In this case, there is no will from Anet to do this. They seem to be making the best game that they can following their vision. FFA PvP is not part of that vision. I win, you lose, this time.
*bad analogy alert time*
If I want a cookie, I'll take the best cookie. Same with cake. I'll never ask someone who decided to make a cookie to somehow add cake to it.
You remember all the hubbub about Friends not having black people? Yeah, those are white people, writing about white people lives...they don't know jack shit about writing about black people. Unless you want to see watermelon and chicken wings jokes.
How bout the Fresh Prince of Bellaire? All the white people on the show couldn't dance or play basketball.
Yea...(insane transition) let's not add FFA PVP to GW2.
You PvPphobes are starting to drive me nuts. How are the mists more open PvP than a FFA PVP server? (Hint, its not)
And if you think FFA only exists for "ganking newbs" than I guess you've never played a FFA PVP MMO. But go on ignorantly shaking your head and going "my word, these gankers are mad!"
Very simple solution that MMOs on almost all PvP servers have had. If someone is a low level, and killed by a high level player, don't have them drop loot.
But no, keep on inventing reasons as to why it "just wouldn't work!" despite the fact that it already has worked in almost every game made since 1997.
So they'd have to recode the grouping mechanisms then, and recode the way dynamic events work as well with regards to contributions and rewards. You claiming these types of code changes are "real easy" demonstrates a complete ignorance of the entire concept.
I ran a wormhole corp in a major wormhole alliance in Eve... I'm familiar with PvP. There's a system that's designed for it, and it works quite well. GW2, not designed for it, would require significant changes, won't happen regardless so arguing the point is silly.
Oderint, dum metuant.
there is no "low" lvl in GW2... you get changed to w/e zone you are in... that doesnt change the fact that the only reason why people want open PVP is to gank the unwarry or unready. NO ONE practices honorable open world PVP.
I've played 3 FFA PVP games in my life. Never am I the one who ganks other people. I like FFA PVP because it adds danger and dynamic feelings to the world. It makes it more like a real place, encourages people to work together, and on top of it all, I can find PVP whenever and wherever I want. I've never ganked a lowbie. I have been ganked many times before.
GASP, DID I JUST BLOW YOUR WORLD? A USE FOR PVP OUTSIDE OF GANKING PEOPLE?
Please, stop trying to preach to people about how their game type is played when you've clearly never played them.
Well if WoW taught GW2 anything its that the mass of people have been trained to enjoy instanced pvp.
I wish there were FFA servers as it would promote you know... Guild vs Guild wars ?
there being no open pvp makes it so that people grief each other in different ways i.e. train mobs on people etc.
If PVP was just "switched on", I think the game would be unplayable.
For one thing, there's no need to target in GW2. A lot of abilities hit whatever is in their area of effect. I don't even know if you could have multiple players meleeing a mob without collateral damage, not to mention dodgng out of the way of a mob and right into someone else's path.
Right now playing the game fills up the battlefield with different colors of AoEs so you know Red harms you, White has no effect and Blue benefits you. With PVP on, pretty much every area on the ground is going to harm you. A lot of cross profession combos would be unplayable or give wacky results like Stomp in an ice field to send enemies flying but also give them bonus armor.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
There's a big difference in games designed for FFA PvP and those not. Eve is designed for it... the game would be unplayable without it. GW2 is designed without it, the game would be unplayable with it. Completely different concept at their core.
You sound like you should give Eve a try if you haven't already. Nothing like that sphincter-clenching sensation you get when you're minding your own business in a wormhole and suddenly you hear that target locking sound...
Oderint, dum metuant.
The OP is not asking for a game designed around FFA PVP. Please stay on topic. He's asking for a PVP server like Mordred which is just the normal ruleset with PvP turned on.
People may not play EvE because they don't like sci-fi. They WILL play WvW. I'm curious why you think it'll be so different from factional PvP servers. If you think people won't roll around in large groups killing small groups that are comparatively helpess, imo you're loco.
I laughed, lol.
I enjoyed FFA in AoC. -shrugh-
Pssst...your self-righteous bigotry is showing.
Well, everything except for being able to PvP everywhere in the gorgeous world Anet has fashioned.
Now, again, I'm not saying that this an FFA server in GW2 is really plausible. But I really, really don't get why so many people who don't enjoy that ruleset (AND WOULD NOT BE FORCED TO PLAY THERE) engage "prig mode" every time the ruleset comes up. You guys are the ones being antisocial asses here, not the people asking for that ruleset.
Oh, the irony.
Except, due to game design which you're adept at ignoring, it isn't as simply as "PvP turned on".
Doesn't matter, what the OP wants the OP will not get. Not worth arguing over.
Oderint, dum metuant.
(shrugs) Some people want something so bad, they're willing to ignore the concept of 'quality' or 'game design' to get it.
Just ignore it and move on. You want quality, I want quality, they don't think quality is an important feature in a game.
It's just a difference of opinion.
Ok, I read through 3/4 of the thread, and I feel like weighing in now...
Here is the deal.
Picture raiding in WoW. I didn't do any past BC, but up to that point... Now imagine that all AoEs hit your party members and team-mates as well as the enemy. How well would that work for you?
Lets take GW2. You have a dynamic event. The dynamic event scales in difficulty based on how many people are there. A boss pops. so here are a couple of things to consider:
1) The boss(and the rest of the event) gets hard for each person who is there
2) Not everyone will be doing the event, some of them will be sniping or ganking people trying to do the event(which is getting needlessly harder).
3) Multiple groups all trying to do the same event will be getting in each others' way and hitting each other even if not intended.
Morder worked in DAOC because it used a traditional questing: Collect quest, go farm static mobs, return quest.
Mordred added another several new paths:
a) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, go do a different quest and come back later
b) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, fight them, keep coming back and fighting them over and over.
c) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, kill them, return quest.
d) Collect quest, go farm static mobs, get jumped, kill them, get jumped again(often by the same guy(s)), kill them again, repeat.
e) Go jump people who are questing
f) Gank lowbies who are trying to quest
Unfortunately that model does not work with the questing model that they have in GW2...
There are other mechanics that make it prohibitive as well, but this post is already getting too long. To all the people saying "hey, just turn on the pvp flag and you don't need to do anything else"... Yeah, yeah you do. To all the peolpe who used the example of DAOC, saying that all they did on Mordred was turn on the PvP flags... really? that is all you remember? Tell me, how did they handle relics on Mordred? How did they handle DF on Mordred? How about access to the other realms? And that is just the tip of the iceberg...
DAOC had to make changes in order to accomodate that ruleset, including changes to their existing PvP structure.
GW2's very nature will require a lot more all-encompassing changes to make that work, and I sincerely doubt they will go to the extent of figuring out all the changes they need to make, coding them, and trying to keep it functional, balanced and fun... For what will probably be the population of one server, or less... If they have a huge demand for it, they might. But they don't, and they won't. When you hear peolpe waxing nostalgic about DAOC, you don't hear them saying "yeah, and remember when I ganked that level 36 Eld farming mammoths in mid?" You hear them talking about realm pride, and RvR, and relic raids, and keep sieges, etc, etc. That is what they are trying to bring back, and that is what people want.
That feeling of nostalgia you feel for old games can rarely be satisfied by going back to the old game, because you've been ruined by the conveniences and features of new games. It is like getting a 1950s car cause you like the vintage look... but you find that you don't like getting 5 miles to the gallon and having to rebuild the engine often and actually having a timing belt and having to get it tuned up, etc... You want the vintage look on a modern car. They are giving us the features that we are nostalgic for, but for 2012 rather than 2001.
Oh and btw, I did play on mordred for almost 7 months... So its not like I hate the ruleset.
But no, it won't work.
Well different servers require different code. Now before some expert who has writen 2 hello programs comes in to tell us it doesn't take much effort, it actually does take effort. Effort that would take away from other development. The ROI has to be higher to make specialized servers worth it.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
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They only want quality when it suits their needs, i.e when they can use it to complain. If they were to give them FFA and it sucks, they would be the first to whine about it. You gotta love the minds of clueless individuals, i.e Garvon3.
You can't just 'turn on' FFA PvP in a game that's designed from the ground up to be about cooperative gameplay and characters interacting together, rather than apart.
I can understand somebody wanting FFA PvP. That's fine (Though it's not going to happen). ... but to suggest it's just like some little switch that you can flip, is pretty naive. Or requires not caring about quality at ALL.
Games work better when the systems are designed to work together. That's... not really hypocritical or elitist of me to point that out.