Yeah, it "encourages" guilds/individuals to decide to gang up on players who are trying to enjoy the game and not assert their phallic dominance on everyone else. There are plenty of games like that to choose from already.
+1
Its funny... the idea of FFA players invading a normal server and ruining their enjoyment. Why would anybody join a special rules server type and expect to play the game as though it were a normal server????
Yeah, it "encourages" guilds/individuals to decide to gang up on players who are trying to enjoy the game and not assert their phallic dominance on everyone else. There are plenty of games like that to choose from already.
this
Uh.. pro tip. If you don't want to have people interrupt you from "trying to enjoy the game" then don't play on the PvP server? How all you people can get this worked up over a server that will have absolutely NO impact on you at all blows my mind and then reminds me why the MMO genre is doomed.
You mean like when PvPers get angry when the PvE'ers want a server of their own that "will have absolutely NO impact on you at all"?
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I think the world v world and "guild war" features will be good stand ins for free for all pvp. I mean I cut my teeth on UO and greatly enjoyed Shadowbane for the brief amount of time it was around.
I know and you know that in a free or all world it's never as bad as care bears paint it. Strong communities form, stronger than any pve raid guild could imagine, and great things happen in that environment.
As others have argued that wasn't a design tactic used in this game from the beginning.
For Free for All, real player v player interaction to work, it has to be one of the goals set in ink before the first 1 or 0 is input into code.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
How is it hard for YOU to understand what Anet has ALREADY stated about their goals and vision for the game. They are building a game where you will never have to LOATHE seeing a servermate. Period. It's THEIR game, they're developing it....I think they have the right to make it the way THEY want to make it. If you don't care for it, there are plenty of MMOs that cater to your playstyle. Go find one.
This is a forum, a place for ALL to voice what they'd like to see, ask what they want to ask or criticize what they don't like.
It's not about understanding what A-net is doing here, it's about expressing what someone would rather see, if there is something they would rather see. Is that hard to understand, is a different opinion about server types something to get all uppity about? I'm sure there are plenty of sites to go to if all you want to hear about is the company line, go find one.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by just1opinion
How is it hard for YOU to understand what Anet has ALREADY stated about their goals and vision for the game. They are building a game where you will never have to LOATHE seeing a servermate. Period. It's THEIR game, they're developing it....I think they have the right to make it the way THEY want to make it. If you don't care for it, there are plenty of MMOs that cater to your playstyle. Go find one.
This is a forum, a place for ALL to voice what they'd like to see, ask what they want to ask or criticize what they don't like. It's not about understanding what A-net is doing here, it's about expressing what someone would rather see, if there is something they would rather see. Is that hard to understand, is a different opinion about server types something to get all uppity about? I'm sure there are plenty of sites to go to if all you want to hear about is the company line, go find one.
I don't think just1opinion picked his forum handle out of irony's sake.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Do people not understand you have to actually choose to play on a FFA server? This means no one would be "ganked while trying to PVE" because they're on that server for the sole purpose of PvP! It's hard to grief people when the behavior is to be expected. Not to mention Mordred in DAoC was very popular, then seeing as a lot of ANET people are from early Mythic it's not a far stretch, especially there answer to including such a server was "Not at this time"
Take note, they did not say it was impossible but that it was not in the works at the moment. Mordred wasn't in DAoC at launch either so it still looks very much possible. Plus the same can be said about DAoC since that game was made around grouping with realm mates and balanced around that not 1v1 or anything like that. In fact when all the factions could play together it was even more unbalanced since they were never designed to have all options available.
You don't seem to understand that it's not always a choice.
There are two things I have to say here, and one of them is a direct reply to you.
A professional PvPer may want to see what a PvP server has to offer, and a PvE friend or two may follow them. Peer pressure and all that. So the life of the PvE player becomes shit, and it creates division in the playerbase, and a lot of bitter players who end up hating the game because of it.
Right, that said.
Lore.
An FFA server would completely and utterly butcher the lore. There are laws in place that basically state:
Hey, hey you. If you kill an ally, then you're going to get courtmarshalled.
And the five races are ALL allied.
Now the charr? The charr are a topic that I love, because they're so interesting as a species, they're no doubt the most interesting species in the game, lore-wise. No one else has their depth. So I know a lot about them.
The charr would not be a party to that shit.
A charr is completely loyal to legion and imperator. If you're not loyal, then you're a gladium. And if you're a gladium, you're fairly fucked. Have fun with that. So charr are loyal, charr are fiercely loyal. There's no one you want guarding your back more than a charr, because if a charr is ordered by a superior to guard you, they will lay down their life trying to obey that order. That's the way the charr live, and I respect and admire it. It means that they're not all self-interested, egotistical jerks.
In fact, the charr are the opposite, they're very self-sacrificing. Everything is for the good of their legion, for their culture, for the continued survival of their civilisation. Would a human lay down their life to save a hundred people without a second thought just because they knew it was their duty? Probably not. Except for the rare hero, you wouldn't get many people who're genuinely that selfless. but the charr believe in the survival of all, over the survival of one. The charr would do it.
The lore dictates that the charr have been pretty much ordered by their superiors, direct from the imperators, to play nice with the other legions and with the other races. Now, this doesn't mean no trash talk and no friction, but it does mean that the charr has to be loyal to their orders. A charr may completely hate your guts, but they will fulfil their duty to you at any cost.
For the charr, at least, an FFA server would make no sense at all.
You'd have to completely change the story around for it to make sense. Smodur the Unflinching, leader of the Iron Legion, is invested in a ceasefire and even a lasting peace between the five races (this is covered in Ghosts of Ascalon). In fact, even before the treaty, Smodur would let any person of any race into the Black Citadel providing that they could prove their worth to the charr. Smodur is very, very progressive like that.
So you'd have to take Smodur and turn him into a brutalistic idiot.
Essentially you'd have to replace Smodur the Unflinching with Garrosh Hellscream.
Yeeeahno. Hell no.
You leave my charr alone! >8[ You leave them alone!! You nasty lore hating FFA players. :P
But the point of this is is that from at least the perspective of one race, FFA can't exist. Because every time a charr kills an allied human or asura, they're disobeying their merrily progressive imperator, and for that they can end up being removed from their warband and losing everything that means something to them. To a charr, dying honourably on the field of battle is a much better alternative. You stand with your warband, and you die with your warband, for the legion.
This is why an FFA server can't exist. The story is designed in such a way that FFA just is not a possibility.
To make it a possibility you have to rewrite the story just before the game is about to be released.
Also, even though I think FFA done right has a point to it... in GW2, you really WOULD be doing it, just to be a dick.
I mean, okay, let's look... you're not competing over quests or nodes, there's nothing to capture or claim...
.... basically, you'd be killing other people just to kill other people.
A good PvP game requires SOMETHING to fight over, or it's just pointless.
... and if they made it so people gave xp and dropped items like in WvW... people would just get naked and kill each other in a huge orgy of stupid, because there's no real death penalty, basically farming the hell out of your own guild or whatever.
Lame and hugely exploitable. Or lame and pointless. Either way, stupid.
There is loot for killing players in GW2, its your motivation to kill passerby's in the Mist.
That's cool you read the part I said in red, but I'm a little confused by the part where you couldn't read any of the rest of it. Oh well.
How is it hard for YOU to understand what Anet has ALREADY stated about their goals and vision for the game. They are building a game where you will never have to LOATHE seeing a servermate. Period. It's THEIR game, they're developing it....I think they have the right to make it the way THEY want to make it. If you don't care for it, there are plenty of MMOs that cater to your playstyle. Go find one.
This is a forum, a place for ALL to voice what they'd like to see, ask what they want to ask or criticize what they don't like.
It's not about understanding what A-net is doing here, it's about expressing what someone would rather see, if there is something they would rather see. Is that hard to understand, is a different opinion about server types something to get all uppity about? I'm sure there are plenty of sites to go to if all you want to hear about is the company line, go find one.
Well, people can ask for anything they'd like, really.
... but I don't see a problem with pointing out that their desires are poorly thought out and also exceedingly unlikely to happen (Mainly because they're poorly thought out).
So if somebody says 'Why doesn't Arenanet (insert this here)', I think 'Because that's not what Arenanet says they're going to do, and it doesn't work with what they've already done' is a perfectly valid answer.
Sort of like if somebody started a huge thread on how they believe that Guild Wars 2 would be a better game if they started a server that was full of spaceships, it's not completely unreasonable to point that person to EVE and suggest they should probably be playing a different game.
I think the world v world and "guild war" features will be good stand ins for free for all pvp.
I mean I cut my teeth on UO and greatly enjoyed Shadowbane for the brief amount of time it was around.
I know and you know that in a free or all world it's never as bad as care bears paint it. Strong communities form, stronger than any pve raid guild could imagine, and great things happen in that environment.
As others have argued that wasn't a design tactic used in this game from the beginning.
For Free for All, real player v player interaction to work, it has to be one of the goals set in ink before the first 1 or 0 is input into code.
You mean like when PvPers get angry when the PvE'ers want a server of their own that "will have absolutely NO impact on you at all"?
...what? I can honestly say I have never once seen this happen in any game I've played. How many games actually offer PvP as the only option? Darkfall?
So i have to laugh at the pvp people defending their right to gank "noobs"
let me just remind you people that the whole POINT of GW2 according to the Devs actions with this game's design is to eliminate all of the negatives of the mmo genre in one game, literally.
separated pve pvp code so when pvp is adjusted pve won't be affected
pve only servers so some idiot won't be hanging out ganking people
none traditional trinity so people can find groups without que times
etc etc
the list goes on, this is just another example of one of those fixes to the genre that anet is doing with this game and it's the reason why it's so exciting to most of us.
You know I wonder, if in the attempt to remove all that is bad in MMO's will the result be the greatest game ever made or perhaps the genre's greatest disappointment. Sometimes you end up regretting what you wished for.
Sounds like trying to find the perfect girlfriend. One doesn't exist and part of the fun is learning to enjoy her "flaws".
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Guild Wars 2 is far from perfect, and no amount of logical fallacies (and oh boy the lgoical fallacies are strong with this thread) is going to change what it is or what it's trying to do.
Essentially, they're trying to improve the quality of life for their target demographic. Now, when has a quality of life improvement ever been a bad thing? It hasn't. A lot of people want this, and it isn't hard to deliver on, either. A lot of the idiocy came about with games like Final Fantasy XII and World of Warcraft.
Let me paint you a picture.
Ultima Online: Hello fellow miner. Let's mine here for a bit and have a nice chat whilst we're at it.
World of Warcraft: Eff off, eff you, this node is mine. Eff off! Get lost! I was here first!! Oh you [string of cusses].
Guild Wars 2: Hello fellow miner. Let's mine here for a bit and have a nice chat whilst we're at it.
So what's the reason for this?
World of Warcraft purposefully instigated competition by not instancing resource nodes to players. In Ultima Online, resource nodes were already instanced to players (in such as how it worked in that game). So you could have ten people mining in the same spot and we'd all be really friendly. I loved the hell out of Ultima Online. I'm sorry, it was a beautiful game, it far surpasses anything I've experienced in WoW according to my own memories.
It was... nice.
Now, in WoW everyone has to fight over bloody nodes on resource gathering paths. Idiocy. It just creates nonsensical player competition. Now some people thrive on that, but they're kind of sociopathic to do so. If you want to compete with someone, do it in PvP, not in PvE. UO understood this, WoW did not.
Guild Wars 2 will improve the quality of life of PvE players by removing competition, so you can't grief or screw with people. If you turn up at a resource node, that node is instanced to the player, it's not global. So if ten people turn up at a node, ten people can gather the node. Do you realise what that means? You'll have gathering parties. That's awesome!
WoW taught people to be sociopathic loners who hated seeing other people. It did. You know it's true because of this thread, and those who've been groomed into that particular way of thinking revel in making the lives of others miserable. It's sociopathic, yes, it's not a desirable personality trait. DO NOT WANT in my game.
Now, quality of life improvements are easy, like I said. For something like gathering, all you have to do is look at how Ultima Online did it. It's that easy. It's not impossible, it's not trying to make something perfect, it's just a quality of life improvement that will make the game more enjoyable for those who want to enjoy it.
And do you know who's really scared of this?
Sociopathic crazy loner people who enjoy griefing others.
Fact.
If you want that, go play WoW or something. There are games out there for you which play up to your sociopathy. But in GW2 player competition in PvE has been removed as much as possible so we can all just have fun, without some crazy nutter who can only enjoy something if he's ruining the fun of others ruining it for us. I don't want that. Go find another game.
You don't seem to understand that it's not always a choice.
There are two things I have to say here, and one of them is a direct reply to you.
A professional PvPer may want to see what a PvP server has to offer, and a PvE friend or two may follow them. Peer pressure and all that. So the life of the PvE player becomes shit, and it creates division in the playerbase, and a lot of bitter players who end up hating the game because of it.
Right, that said.
Lore.
An FFA server would completely and utterly butcher the lore. There are laws in place that basically state:
Hey, hey you. If you kill an ally, then you're going to get courtmarshalled.
And the five races are ALL allied.
Now the charr? The charr are a topic that I love, because they're so interesting as a species, they're no doubt the most interesting species in the game, lore-wise. No one else has their depth. So I know a lot about them.
The charr would not be a party to that shit.
A charr is completely loyal to legion and imperator. If you're not loyal, then you're a gladium. And if you're a gladium, you're fairly fucked. Have fun with that. So charr are loyal, charr are fiercely loyal. There's no one you want guarding your back more than a charr, because if a charr is ordered by a superior to guard you, they will lay down their life trying to obey that order. That's the way the charr live, and I respect and admire it. It means that they're not all self-interested, egotistical jerks.
In fact, the charr are the opposite, they're very self-sacrificing. Everything is for the good of their legion, for their culture, for the continued survival of their civilisation. Would a human lay down their life to save a hundred people without a second thought just because they knew it was their duty? Probably not. Except for the rare hero, you wouldn't get many people who're genuinely that selfless. but the charr believe in the survival of all, over the survival of one. The charr would do it.
The lore dictates that the charr have been pretty much ordered by their superiors, direct from the imperators, to play nice with the other legions and with the other races. Now, this doesn't mean no trash talk and no friction, but it does mean that the charr has to be loyal to their orders. A charr may completely hate your guts, but they will fulfil their duty to you at any cost.
For the charr, at least, an FFA server would make no sense at all.
You'd have to completely change the story around for it to make sense. Smodur the Unflinching, leader of the Iron Legion, is invested in a ceasefire and even a lasting peace between the five races (this is covered in Ghosts of Ascalon). In fact, even before the treaty, Smodur would let any person of any race into the Black Citadel providing that they could prove their worth to the charr. Smodur is very, very progressive like that.
So you'd have to take Smodur and turn him into a brutalistic idiot.
Essentially you'd have to replace Smodur the Unflinching with Garrosh Hellscream.
Yeeeahno. Hell no.
You leave my charr alone! >8[ You leave them alone!! You nasty lore hating FFA players. :P
But the point of this is is that from at least the perspective of one race, FFA can't exist. Because every time a charr kills an allied human or asura, they're disobeying their merrily progressive imperator, and for that they can end up being removed from their warband and losing everything that means something to them. To a charr, dying honourably on the field of battle is a much better alternative. You stand with your warband, and you die with your warband, for the legion.
This is why an FFA server can't exist. The story is designed in such a way that FFA just is not a possibility.
To make it a possibility you have to rewrite the story just before the game is about to be released.
And yeah, ArenaNet are totally going to do that.
/thread
Is there any further need to discuss?
I didn't read your wall of text because I simply don't give a fuck, especially when it gets to the lore part.
What I did read was this "A professional PvPer may want to see what a PvP server has to offer, and a PvE friend or two may follow them. Peer pressure and all that. So the life of the PvE player becomes shit, and it creates division in the playerbase, and a lot of bitter players who end up hating the game because of it.
You act like the PvE player has to play on that server, you don't. Not to mention the fact that you can visit other servers at anytime so really your point is non existant.
The server ruleset could be implemented and many would think it's fun, just like Mordred back in DAoC. It's not in the works right now but this doesn't mean it never will be. PvE people are so whiny when it comes to PvP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is no FFA potential in GW2. Zero. Therefore nothing is going unrealized, as it never attained even conceptual existence. A World of Warcraft ruleset GW2 server has a roughly similar chance of pushing its way into our universe.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
There is no FFA potential in GW2. Zero. Therefore nothing is going unrealized, as it never attained even conceptual existence. A World of Warcraft ruleset GW2 server has a roughly similar chance of pushing its way into our universe.
That's going a bit far, it wouldn't take much to fix the one major problem FFA would have with GW2's design. A PVP toggle when in a certain radius of a DE, that's really all they would need. The personal Story stuff would be fine as is due to it's instanced nature. The mists fine as they're a separate world mass.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The whole premise of this thread is that if all it takes for this kind of server is to "toggle PVP on", then ArenaNet should do it.
The problem is that I highly doubt any such "toggle" exists because the game wasn't designed from the ground up to have PVP servers. Suppose that you can just let players attack other players. I'm sure the game treats players differently in PVE than the players from other servers in PVP, so loot code I'm sure is not there on the PVE side. What about low level zones and cities? What about guards, should they get involved? What about being stuck in combat if you accidently hit a guy you didn't mean to? What about WvW PVP? Is this now the only place where you can't attack people on your server? Or you'd need this server excluded from the matchups.
On the amusing side, right now you hit the same button (F) if you want to revive an ally or execute an enemy.
And just like I said in my earlier post, the game doesn't require you to have a target so there'd be all kinds of collateral damage and cross profession combos would either not work or do weird stuff like damage and buff someone at the same time. Think about the Guardian and how their bubbles and walls are now treating everyone like a friend and enemy at the same time, it makes no sense.
In general though, I think the real question is if companies change their vision to support different groups of people, where does it end? If GW2 should have a FFA PVP server, should they also have some kind of faction PVP server? Same thing with any game coming out. For example, Dominus is based on 3-faction PVP. Should that game have a FFA PVP server? Should that game have a no faction PVE only server like GW2?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
You mean like when PvPers get angry when the PvE'ers want a server of their own that "will have absolutely NO impact on you at all"?
...what? I can honestly say I have never once seen this happen in any game I've played. How many games actually offer PvP as the only option? Darkfall?
So what? So if it's Darkfall that's what....ONE game. How is that different than you expecting PvP servers in GW2. If someone came along and wanted a PvE server in Darkfall....they TOO would get laughed at and all the same things we're saying would be said. "Darkfall was made with a precise vision and your desire for a PvE server doesn't fit into that vision." But I suppose that would be okay because it's Darkfall???
Logic....seriously. Anet made the game according to their vision. They wanted it to be a place where you were never fighting AGAINST others on your own server, so you would always be happy to see people on your own server. That's just HOW IT IS. So the people that want PvP against their own server need to find another game. I don't see the issue here. There are games already for both of these playstyles. Each company/developer makes their decisions as to what playstyles they want to encourage. I just don't see the difficulty with understanding.
That being said....IF ArenaNet WANTS to change their entire vision for the game some day....maybe they will. I pretty much doubt it, but anything is possible I suppose. I would think that people that are unhappy with the PvP options and would ONLY be happy with FFA open world PvP, should probably look elsewhere for a game to play. If GW2 changes, you can be sure there will be plenty said about here on the forums, so you could always buy the game THEN. Right?
Okay so I hope everyone understands that its not gonna happen, because all Servers are available for WvWvW
So there is no RP only server, there is no PVE only server, and No PVP only server, its just Server A , B , C....etc and you will eventually fight against each other.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Originally posted by Lucioon Okay so I hope everyone understands that its not gonna happen, because all Servers are available for WvWvW So there is no RP only server, there is no PVE only server, and No PVP only server, its just Server A , B , C....etc and you will eventually fight against each other.
Do we know how this is going to be just yet? To be on topic will the WvW be in contested areas only during certain times? Will it be more like a Battleground type objective based ordeal? Or will there be some sort of 'invasion' type of deal on active maps per server?
I've read a little about this and wasn't sure, but yeah I think (as I posted prior) the FFA pallet will be happy with this mix. Or so I'm hoping, until a well designed pvp oriented game comes along.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus No its not possible.
Arenanet will concentrate on one server type and one server type only. If you want world PvP its available, go to the Mists for the huge WvWvW zones... Allways PvP allways challenge, and on top of that no more ganking players that are busy with PvE. The best of all worlds.
MMO history has tought us that a game works best on the server type it was intended to be played.
Want FFA, find an FFA type of MMO.
So if someone ask i want a ffa pvp server and arenanet say yes, how would it effect you then, TELL ME???
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Comments
Its funny... the idea of FFA players invading a normal server and ruining their enjoyment. Why would anybody join a special rules server type and expect to play the game as though it were a normal server????
You mean like when PvPers get angry when the PvE'ers want a server of their own that "will have absolutely NO impact on you at all"?
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I think the world v world and "guild war" features will be good stand ins for free for all pvp.
I mean I cut my teeth on UO and greatly enjoyed Shadowbane for the brief amount of time it was around.
I know and you know that in a free or all world it's never as bad as care bears paint it. Strong communities form, stronger than any pve raid guild could imagine, and great things happen in that environment.
As others have argued that wasn't a design tactic used in this game from the beginning.
For Free for All, real player v player interaction to work, it has to be one of the goals set in ink before the first 1 or 0 is input into code.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
This is a forum, a place for ALL to voice what they'd like to see, ask what they want to ask or criticize what they don't like.
It's not about understanding what A-net is doing here, it's about expressing what someone would rather see, if there is something they would rather see. Is that hard to understand, is a different opinion about server types something to get all uppity about? I'm sure there are plenty of sites to go to if all you want to hear about is the company line, go find one.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not about understanding what A-net is doing here, it's about expressing what someone would rather see, if there is something they would rather see. Is that hard to understand, is a different opinion about server types something to get all uppity about? I'm sure there are plenty of sites to go to if all you want to hear about is the company line, go find one.
I don't think just1opinion picked his forum handle out of irony's sake.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Do people not understand you have to actually choose to play on a FFA server? This means no one would be "ganked while trying to PVE" because they're on that server for the sole purpose of PvP! It's hard to grief people when the behavior is to be expected. Not to mention Mordred in DAoC was very popular, then seeing as a lot of ANET people are from early Mythic it's not a far stretch, especially there answer to including such a server was "Not at this time"
Take note, they did not say it was impossible but that it was not in the works at the moment. Mordred wasn't in DAoC at launch either so it still looks very much possible. Plus the same can be said about DAoC since that game was made around grouping with realm mates and balanced around that not 1v1 or anything like that. In fact when all the factions could play together it was even more unbalanced since they were never designed to have all options available.
There will be no FFA type server. Hell, they're not even making any dedicated RP servers... just regular, glorious in their goodness servers.
This thread is wasted bandwidth.
Oderint, dum metuant.
@Ganjan12
You don't seem to understand that it's not always a choice.
There are two things I have to say here, and one of them is a direct reply to you.
A professional PvPer may want to see what a PvP server has to offer, and a PvE friend or two may follow them. Peer pressure and all that. So the life of the PvE player becomes shit, and it creates division in the playerbase, and a lot of bitter players who end up hating the game because of it.
Right, that said.
Lore.
An FFA server would completely and utterly butcher the lore. There are laws in place that basically state:
Hey, hey you. If you kill an ally, then you're going to get courtmarshalled.
And the five races are ALL allied.
Now the charr? The charr are a topic that I love, because they're so interesting as a species, they're no doubt the most interesting species in the game, lore-wise. No one else has their depth. So I know a lot about them.
The charr would not be a party to that shit.
A charr is completely loyal to legion and imperator. If you're not loyal, then you're a gladium. And if you're a gladium, you're fairly fucked. Have fun with that. So charr are loyal, charr are fiercely loyal. There's no one you want guarding your back more than a charr, because if a charr is ordered by a superior to guard you, they will lay down their life trying to obey that order. That's the way the charr live, and I respect and admire it. It means that they're not all self-interested, egotistical jerks.
In fact, the charr are the opposite, they're very self-sacrificing. Everything is for the good of their legion, for their culture, for the continued survival of their civilisation. Would a human lay down their life to save a hundred people without a second thought just because they knew it was their duty? Probably not. Except for the rare hero, you wouldn't get many people who're genuinely that selfless. but the charr believe in the survival of all, over the survival of one. The charr would do it.
The lore dictates that the charr have been pretty much ordered by their superiors, direct from the imperators, to play nice with the other legions and with the other races. Now, this doesn't mean no trash talk and no friction, but it does mean that the charr has to be loyal to their orders. A charr may completely hate your guts, but they will fulfil their duty to you at any cost.
For the charr, at least, an FFA server would make no sense at all.
You'd have to completely change the story around for it to make sense. Smodur the Unflinching, leader of the Iron Legion, is invested in a ceasefire and even a lasting peace between the five races (this is covered in Ghosts of Ascalon). In fact, even before the treaty, Smodur would let any person of any race into the Black Citadel providing that they could prove their worth to the charr. Smodur is very, very progressive like that.
So you'd have to take Smodur and turn him into a brutalistic idiot.
Essentially you'd have to replace Smodur the Unflinching with Garrosh Hellscream.
Yeeeahno. Hell no.
You leave my charr alone! >8[ You leave them alone!! You nasty lore hating FFA players. :P
But the point of this is is that from at least the perspective of one race, FFA can't exist. Because every time a charr kills an allied human or asura, they're disobeying their merrily progressive imperator, and for that they can end up being removed from their warband and losing everything that means something to them. To a charr, dying honourably on the field of battle is a much better alternative. You stand with your warband, and you die with your warband, for the legion.
This is why an FFA server can't exist. The story is designed in such a way that FFA just is not a possibility.
To make it a possibility you have to rewrite the story just before the game is about to be released.
And yeah, ArenaNet are totally going to do that.
/thread
Is there any further need to discuss?
That's cool you read the part I said in red, but I'm a little confused by the part where you couldn't read any of the rest of it. Oh well.
Well, people can ask for anything they'd like, really.
... but I don't see a problem with pointing out that their desires are poorly thought out and also exceedingly unlikely to happen (Mainly because they're poorly thought out).
So if somebody says 'Why doesn't Arenanet (insert this here)', I think 'Because that's not what Arenanet says they're going to do, and it doesn't work with what they've already done' is a perfectly valid answer.
Sort of like if somebody started a huge thread on how they believe that Guild Wars 2 would be a better game if they started a server that was full of spaceships, it's not completely unreasonable to point that person to EVE and suggest they should probably be playing a different game.
+1
Thank you. Someone gets it.
...what? I can honestly say I have never once seen this happen in any game I've played. How many games actually offer PvP as the only option? Darkfall?
Sounds like trying to find the perfect girlfriend. One doesn't exist and part of the fun is learning to enjoy her "flaws".
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Guild Wars 2 is far from perfect, and no amount of logical fallacies (and oh boy the lgoical fallacies are strong with this thread) is going to change what it is or what it's trying to do.
Essentially, they're trying to improve the quality of life for their target demographic. Now, when has a quality of life improvement ever been a bad thing? It hasn't. A lot of people want this, and it isn't hard to deliver on, either. A lot of the idiocy came about with games like Final Fantasy XII and World of Warcraft.
Let me paint you a picture.
Ultima Online: Hello fellow miner. Let's mine here for a bit and have a nice chat whilst we're at it.
World of Warcraft: Eff off, eff you, this node is mine. Eff off! Get lost! I was here first!! Oh you [string of cusses].
Guild Wars 2: Hello fellow miner. Let's mine here for a bit and have a nice chat whilst we're at it.
So what's the reason for this?
World of Warcraft purposefully instigated competition by not instancing resource nodes to players. In Ultima Online, resource nodes were already instanced to players (in such as how it worked in that game). So you could have ten people mining in the same spot and we'd all be really friendly. I loved the hell out of Ultima Online. I'm sorry, it was a beautiful game, it far surpasses anything I've experienced in WoW according to my own memories.
It was... nice.
Now, in WoW everyone has to fight over bloody nodes on resource gathering paths. Idiocy. It just creates nonsensical player competition. Now some people thrive on that, but they're kind of sociopathic to do so. If you want to compete with someone, do it in PvP, not in PvE. UO understood this, WoW did not.
Guild Wars 2 will improve the quality of life of PvE players by removing competition, so you can't grief or screw with people. If you turn up at a resource node, that node is instanced to the player, it's not global. So if ten people turn up at a node, ten people can gather the node. Do you realise what that means? You'll have gathering parties. That's awesome!
WoW taught people to be sociopathic loners who hated seeing other people. It did. You know it's true because of this thread, and those who've been groomed into that particular way of thinking revel in making the lives of others miserable. It's sociopathic, yes, it's not a desirable personality trait. DO NOT WANT in my game.
Now, quality of life improvements are easy, like I said. For something like gathering, all you have to do is look at how Ultima Online did it. It's that easy. It's not impossible, it's not trying to make something perfect, it's just a quality of life improvement that will make the game more enjoyable for those who want to enjoy it.
And do you know who's really scared of this?
Sociopathic crazy loner people who enjoy griefing others.
Fact.
If you want that, go play WoW or something. There are games out there for you which play up to your sociopathy. But in GW2 player competition in PvE has been removed as much as possible so we can all just have fun, without some crazy nutter who can only enjoy something if he's ruining the fun of others ruining it for us. I don't want that. Go find another game.
I didn't read your wall of text because I simply don't give a fuck, especially when it gets to the lore part.
What I did read was this "A professional PvPer may want to see what a PvP server has to offer, and a PvE friend or two may follow them. Peer pressure and all that. So the life of the PvE player becomes shit, and it creates division in the playerbase, and a lot of bitter players who end up hating the game because of it.
You act like the PvE player has to play on that server, you don't. Not to mention the fact that you can visit other servers at anytime so really your point is non existant.
The server ruleset could be implemented and many would think it's fun, just like Mordred back in DAoC. It's not in the works right now but this doesn't mean it never will be. PvE people are so whiny when it comes to PvP.
I think I have the key. People who dream of an FFA server sort of by definition only really respect force, so let's give this a try.
No.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
Well, you are right of course, they won't be making any FFA servers and the MMORPG world will be poorer for it.
More lost potential, but the genre lost that spark many years ago, its all about maximizing the revenues these days.
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I guess its theoretically possible, but it makes EXTREMELY little sense in the context of WvWvW.
I think if they made a WvWvW instance which was free for all, they would need to essentially do the following:
a) not have it rotate worlds. If it rotates it will be complete chaos. FFA needs time for alliances and grudges to form.
b) probably let anyone from any world join it (with some kind of governance to prevent performance issues).
Basically just call it the Badlands and have done.
There is no FFA potential in GW2. Zero. Therefore nothing is going unrealized, as it never attained even conceptual existence. A World of Warcraft ruleset GW2 server has a roughly similar chance of pushing its way into our universe.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
That's going a bit far, it wouldn't take much to fix the one major problem FFA would have with GW2's design. A PVP toggle when in a certain radius of a DE, that's really all they would need. The personal Story stuff would be fine as is due to it's instanced nature. The mists fine as they're a separate world mass.
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The whole premise of this thread is that if all it takes for this kind of server is to "toggle PVP on", then ArenaNet should do it.
The problem is that I highly doubt any such "toggle" exists because the game wasn't designed from the ground up to have PVP servers. Suppose that you can just let players attack other players. I'm sure the game treats players differently in PVE than the players from other servers in PVP, so loot code I'm sure is not there on the PVE side. What about low level zones and cities? What about guards, should they get involved? What about being stuck in combat if you accidently hit a guy you didn't mean to? What about WvW PVP? Is this now the only place where you can't attack people on your server? Or you'd need this server excluded from the matchups.
On the amusing side, right now you hit the same button (F) if you want to revive an ally or execute an enemy.
And just like I said in my earlier post, the game doesn't require you to have a target so there'd be all kinds of collateral damage and cross profession combos would either not work or do weird stuff like damage and buff someone at the same time. Think about the Guardian and how their bubbles and walls are now treating everyone like a friend and enemy at the same time, it makes no sense.
In general though, I think the real question is if companies change their vision to support different groups of people, where does it end? If GW2 should have a FFA PVP server, should they also have some kind of faction PVP server? Same thing with any game coming out. For example, Dominus is based on 3-faction PVP. Should that game have a FFA PVP server? Should that game have a no faction PVE only server like GW2?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
So what? So if it's Darkfall that's what....ONE game. How is that different than you expecting PvP servers in GW2. If someone came along and wanted a PvE server in Darkfall....they TOO would get laughed at and all the same things we're saying would be said. "Darkfall was made with a precise vision and your desire for a PvE server doesn't fit into that vision." But I suppose that would be okay because it's Darkfall???
Logic....seriously. Anet made the game according to their vision. They wanted it to be a place where you were never fighting AGAINST others on your own server, so you would always be happy to see people on your own server. That's just HOW IT IS. So the people that want PvP against their own server need to find another game. I don't see the issue here. There are games already for both of these playstyles. Each company/developer makes their decisions as to what playstyles they want to encourage. I just don't see the difficulty with understanding.
That being said....IF ArenaNet WANTS to change their entire vision for the game some day....maybe they will. I pretty much doubt it, but anything is possible I suppose. I would think that people that are unhappy with the PvP options and would ONLY be happy with FFA open world PvP, should probably look elsewhere for a game to play. If GW2 changes, you can be sure there will be plenty said about here on the forums, so you could always buy the game THEN. Right?
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Okay so I hope everyone understands that its not gonna happen, because all Servers are available for WvWvW
So there is no RP only server, there is no PVE only server, and No PVP only server, its just Server A , B , C....etc and you will eventually fight against each other.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Do we know how this is going to be just yet?
To be on topic will the WvW be in contested areas only during certain times? Will it be more like a Battleground type objective based ordeal? Or will there be some sort of 'invasion' type of deal on active maps per server?
I've read a little about this and wasn't sure, but yeah I think (as I posted prior) the FFA pallet will be happy with this mix. Or so I'm hoping, until a well designed pvp oriented game comes along.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
So if someone ask i want a ffa pvp server and arenanet say yes, how would it effect you then, TELL ME???
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