I think SWTOR is the first MMORPG that I have purchased, played for less than a month, unsubbed, and have no desire whatsoever to look back. How do you "confirm" 1.7 million subscribers, and then say you retained "most" of them after the first month? So 1.7 million total subscribers, and whatevers left is left. 1.7 million is a big number though, congrats on selling snake oil.
SWTOR lost many people because (And who saw this shit coming) its not a thinking man's game. You never once have to go beyond a few smalls actions to complete a mission or even kill someone for that matter. Its cinematic as hell yes, and the storys there, but heres my simple rebuttal to that,
"Why not just make a CGI movie or a book?" Seriously you could just write all the dialouge into a script or a long book and it would provide the exact same experiance. Which is why MMO's in general suck so much now adays is because they are all too dumbed down to fit the current demographic.
I mean can anyone look at TOR and say "O yeah this is a game made for all of the Star Wars audiences." NO! its made for the current (Younger) Star Wars fans, and making this move BIoware shot themselves in the foot and doomed them to the same fate as all the other linear, boring, truely uninspired MMO's that have released in the past 5 years.
And Im talking about the overall package of TOR being for younger audiences, I realize that there are choices in conversations that are adult, like killing an innocent, torture, sex, etc. and it sucks cause that is where the game shines is you can tell the writers put alot of effort into making the stories intresting and dark, but then what do you have?
A game thats graphically a Teen game, with a story thats mature, and gameplay that your 3 year old nephew could play. Its a wash because the game was just poorly developed, by a company who (Woah you guessed it) have NEVER made an MMO before.
People act like Bioware is some evil corporation, or that TOR is the next great reason to hate MMO's and its not that, theyre just simply poor at making MMO's and it shows.
EVEN the Engine isnt a good one, the company that made it never even released the MMO they made the engine for, and then BIOWARE picks that as there platform instead of just making their own engine or at least getting one that was tried and worked. The engine failings are everywhere from the animations onward, and its sad cause that engine does have capablities to do alot but not for a game like BIoware was making.
So everyone just accept it for what it is, just not a very good game.
I think SWTOR is the first MMORPG that I have purchased, played for less than a month, unsubbed, and have no desire whatsoever to look back. How do you "confirm" 1.7 million subscribers, and then say you retained "most" of them after the first month? So 1.7 million total subscribers, and whatevers left is left. 1.7 million is a big number though, congrats on selling snake oil.
+1
Your not alone.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Ok, look, obviously companies want to spin their info in the best possible manner and obviouisly companies will twist the truth if they want.
CEO's do lie.
Having said that, ever since Enron and Arthur Anderson what we have seen is a greater attempt at companies being more transparent so that when investors and companies do their due dilligence everything will be in order. I've seen this at Harvard, and my last two companies as well as the company that currently employs me.
So "yes" comapanies will do what they need to do but as a friend of mine said "I'm going to take this job at Arthur Anderson because, hey, They are Arthur Anderson. They aren't going anywhere.
Companies are a bit more careful with what they present. They aren't saints but if they are discovered then that's a big meatball to swallow.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Now make sure to give us the announcement when all the cancelled accounts run out of leftover gametime and thus become "inactive" accounts that can't be counted.
Oh, wait. We know they won't do that.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Since when does an anylyst estimate have anything to do with spin doctoring?
Good for them. I know I'm still enjoying myself!
Using the word "estimate" obsolves one from any responsibility when the facts are, if ever, released. Hence, putting a "spin" on the number of subs to make your company look good.
I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. Stay there though, when better games come along, kay? Thanks.
Ok, look, obviously companies want to spin their info in the best possible manner and obviouisly companies will twist the truth if they want.
CEO's do lie.
Having said that, ever since Enron and Arthur Anderson what we have seen is a greater attempt at companies being more transparent so that when investors and companies do their due dilligence everything will be in order. I've seen this at Harvard, and my last two companies as well as the company that currently employs me.
So "yes" comapanies will do what they need to do but as a friend of mine said "I'm going to take this job at Arthur Anderson because, hey, They are Arthur Anderson. They aren't going anywhere.
Companies are a bit more careful with what they present. They aren't saints but if they are discovered then that's a big meatball to swallow.
True.
Also congratulations again.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
i,m kind of curious..did they wait to release these figures after the game was released in Asia?.because no way on planet earth did they have that sub-base before.oh well they must have employed the same spin doctor as Tony Blair,cos he is full of s--t as well.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".
So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".
So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.
Which is why it says 1.7 mil subscribers not active players 2 very different things. That is not misleading or lying.
Obviously if he tried saying we have 1.7 mil active players everyone here would know hes lying his ass off or exagerating by a HUGE amount.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
No, he didn't give an exact number. He gave an estimate. What don't YOU not get about that?
You can probably tell from my signature, and certainly from my post history, that I am not a SWTOR fan, but if the CEO has gone on record in an interview and quoted numbers, rather than general reassurances, "we are on track" " comfortable with the position" etc then I would take them to be accurate. If a company is not going to make the expected cash then they front up and issue a profit warning. I cannot see the EA head honcho outright lying over something verifiable like subscribers, especially as SWTOR is not crucial to EA survival.
Oh but there is indeed wiggle room to not quite be accurate in what they present. Happens all the time in corporations. Btw S.B.'s quote in your sign off, has got to be one of the worst inccurate sentences ever stated about SWTOR. Just painful to read that. "Breathing life into a game world"??? Ouch, I want to ask her if she was on peyote or something while playing SWTOR, because I've found the game worlds to be the most unlife like ever released by an AAA mmo-rpg game developer.
edit: Eloke summed it up well, even if as per norm we have to go round and round with William12. The term estimate covers their asses from having to be exacting in their honesty.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".
So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.
Which is why it says 1.7 mil subscribers not active players 2 very different things. That is not misleading or lying.
Actually it is misleading in the fact they're counting on less savvy gamers ( especially fanbois ) to eat it up as proof the game population is healthy and rapidly expanding when it's not.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I would very much like to know how can we verify this.
You mean, an actual documented source? You mean, "it was written on a note" isn't good enough?
If it's on the internets, it must be true you know. The same internets that Al Gore invented.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Comments
Whatever the numbers they could have done much better would the game been less clunky and more polished.
I think SWTOR is the first MMORPG that I have purchased, played for less than a month, unsubbed, and have no desire whatsoever to look back. How do you "confirm" 1.7 million subscribers, and then say you retained "most" of them after the first month? So 1.7 million total subscribers, and whatevers left is left. 1.7 million is a big number though, congrats on selling snake oil.
"I have a bad feeling about this." Joke, Gratz to BW.
Looks like expectations have been tempered, and there's a little less smoke being blown up people's asses.
A small step in the right direction I'd say.
SWTOR lost many people because (And who saw this shit coming) its not a thinking man's game. You never once have to go beyond a few smalls actions to complete a mission or even kill someone for that matter. Its cinematic as hell yes, and the storys there, but heres my simple rebuttal to that,
"Why not just make a CGI movie or a book?" Seriously you could just write all the dialouge into a script or a long book and it would provide the exact same experiance. Which is why MMO's in general suck so much now adays is because they are all too dumbed down to fit the current demographic.
I mean can anyone look at TOR and say "O yeah this is a game made for all of the Star Wars audiences." NO! its made for the current (Younger) Star Wars fans, and making this move BIoware shot themselves in the foot and doomed them to the same fate as all the other linear, boring, truely uninspired MMO's that have released in the past 5 years.
And Im talking about the overall package of TOR being for younger audiences, I realize that there are choices in conversations that are adult, like killing an innocent, torture, sex, etc. and it sucks cause that is where the game shines is you can tell the writers put alot of effort into making the stories intresting and dark, but then what do you have?
A game thats graphically a Teen game, with a story thats mature, and gameplay that your 3 year old nephew could play. Its a wash because the game was just poorly developed, by a company who (Woah you guessed it) have NEVER made an MMO before.
People act like Bioware is some evil corporation, or that TOR is the next great reason to hate MMO's and its not that, theyre just simply poor at making MMO's and it shows.
EVEN the Engine isnt a good one, the company that made it never even released the MMO they made the engine for, and then BIOWARE picks that as there platform instead of just making their own engine or at least getting one that was tried and worked. The engine failings are everywhere from the animations onward, and its sad cause that engine does have capablities to do alot but not for a game like BIoware was making.
So everyone just accept it for what it is, just not a very good game.
+1
Your not alone.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Ok, look, obviously companies want to spin their info in the best possible manner and obviouisly companies will twist the truth if they want.
CEO's do lie.
Having said that, ever since Enron and Arthur Anderson what we have seen is a greater attempt at companies being more transparent so that when investors and companies do their due dilligence everything will be in order. I've seen this at Harvard, and my last two companies as well as the company that currently employs me.
So "yes" comapanies will do what they need to do but as a friend of mine said "I'm going to take this job at Arthur Anderson because, hey, They are Arthur Anderson. They aren't going anywhere.
Companies are a bit more careful with what they present. They aren't saints but if they are discovered then that's a big meatball to swallow.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I love that the Staff of this website posts stuff like this.
Not only is it not news, its also just a blatant attempt to insight verbal warfare on these forums.
They really must enjoy reading these flame wars.
Nice. I hope they improve the game enough so I want to resub at some point.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Now make sure to give us the announcement when all the cancelled accounts run out of leftover gametime and thus become "inactive" accounts that can't be counted.
Oh, wait. We know they won't do that.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Using the word "estimate" obsolves one from any responsibility when the facts are, if ever, released. Hence, putting a "spin" on the number of subs to make your company look good.
I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. Stay there though, when better games come along, kay? Thanks.
True.
Also congratulations again.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
i,m kind of curious..did they wait to release these figures after the game was released in Asia?.because no way on planet earth did they have that sub-base before.oh well they must have employed the same spin doctor as Tony Blair,cos he is full of s--t as well.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
Did you even read the post?
People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".
So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Which is why it says 1.7 mil subscribers not active players 2 very different things. That is not misleading or lying.
Obviously if he tried saying we have 1.7 mil active players everyone here would know hes lying his ass off or exagerating by a HUGE amount.
No, he didn't give an exact number. He gave an estimate. What don't YOU not get about that?
I would very much like to know how can we verify this.
Oh but there is indeed wiggle room to not quite be accurate in what they present. Happens all the time in corporations. Btw S.B.'s quote in your sign off, has got to be one of the worst inccurate sentences ever stated about SWTOR. Just painful to read that. "Breathing life into a game world"??? Ouch, I want to ask her if she was on peyote or something while playing SWTOR, because I've found the game worlds to be the most unlife like ever released by an AAA mmo-rpg game developer.
edit: Eloke summed it up well, even if as per norm we have to go round and round with William12. The term estimate covers their asses from having to be exacting in their honesty.
Less people than I expected before I played it. More people than I expected after I was done playing it.
i.e. Pretty impressive numbers / estimates in my book. But I wonder if it will remain as high the coming months though.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Actually it is misleading in the fact they're counting on less savvy gamers ( especially fanbois ) to eat it up as proof the game population is healthy and rapidly expanding when it's not.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
ToR doing well?
Not possible, I didn't like it!!11!!!11!!one!!!
Obviously the anecdotal evidence and (lol) Xfire numbers poured over by the "experts" of mmorpg.com trumps anything a CEO might say!
You mean, an actual documented source? You mean, "it was written on a note" isn't good enough?
If it's on the internets, it must be true you know. The same internets that Al Gore invented.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky