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MW3 does MMO PVP better than most MMOs, and that's sad...
gainesvilleg
Member CommonPosts: 1,053
I'm gonna get flamed hard on this one I'm sure, but if you break it down MW3 pretty much outdoes most standard MMO's out there regarding PVP, even if you use the typical definition of what makes a game an MMO.
1) It has a leveling system almost on par with any standard themepark. In fact, it goes to 80 LOL. At each level you unlock either a new weapon, a perk (e.g., trait or skill), or a kill/death streak (e.g., special attack). In fact, it allows you to "prestige" and start the level process over again, with a few minor twists thrown in. In fact, each weapon you unlock levels up independently as well. And there are regular and "pro" versions of skills as well.
2) All the PVP is instanced, true, but seriously pretty much every MMO out now is 90+% instanced. And the instances are simply better and more diverse in MW3. Considering: 18 completley different maps in MW3 (at launch, more will be release in expansions at least 2 this year), with each of the 18 maps supporting literally dozens of different gametypes (deathmatch, search and destroy, capture flag, domination, infected, etc with hardcore modes, normal modes, etc.). Plain and simple, the variety is much much better than any other instance MMO
3) The way people build their characters plays different, just like an MMO. You've got your sniper, your run and gunner, your camper, your shotgunner, silent types, fast types, etc.
4) Waiting for a new match takes only seconds, at any hour of the day. There are millions queued up at any given time for a match.
5) Statistics and rankings are superior to those found in an MMO. You can track your rank in any number of statictical categories amongst millions of others. Based by gametype, gun, etc. Better statistics than any MMO.
6) There are clans that compete competetively, just like an MMO
7) In fact there is even a story. A campaign that you can work through. It doesn't impact PVP just like GW2's wont either, but it is there.
8) It is purely skill based. Not tab target. Environment plays a huge factor. Some materials block bullets entirely, some only slow them down. Bullets dont track you behind a tree for instance. If you are good, you will crush. If you suck, you will rage quit. No hand holding.
So, I know I'm not breaking any new ground here on these points, but I just think it is sad and pathetic that an FPS, even a supposedly shallow one like MW3, pretty much blows most other PVP MMO's out of the water even when judged as an MMO. Very sad.
But, the silver lining and glimmer of hope (for me at least), is the rumors of a AAA FPS MMO being developed by Bungie/ATVI/Blizz. To be honest, the FPS developers are just plain better than the MMO developers. The FPS developers will provide the innovation the traditional MMO developers have been incapable of, at least regarding PVP...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
bump
We lost the knowledgs what an MMO really is. This (look above) is it not. We just lost it....
that about covers it right there.
Activision has done a pretty good job adding rpg type progression to the COD series no doubt, but it's not a MMORPG in the least. It's still an online FPS at the end of the day. There is no persistent world to speak of. Now, people add the letters MMO to pretty much everything nowadays, so I guess MW3 is no different than the countless so called MMOFPS's that are listed on this site. We all know that a lot the games listed on here are not MMOs, just like World of Tanks is not an MMO, or like Guild Wars 1 is not even considered an MMO.
As far as PvP, yeah its an online first person shooters. Those games usually are all players versus player with some added co-op. MW3 does instanced PvP well, at least in your opinion (and a shit ton of other people, it's a well liked game). Tbh I can't stand the game. Feels like I am running around in a little box playing an arcade game.
+1 to this... to the OP, I mean if all you really want is "skill" based PVP, why would you *not* play FPS games?
I just dont understand it. Personally, I do *not* define twitch reflexes (all that is required for FPS success) as a "skill" *at all*, but I know that many people are tunnel vision focused on this definition of "skill"
So for these folks, who care far more about "skill" in PVP, and "purity" of PVP and "balance" (of course if your reflexes arent great, good luck to you), than anything else... the FPS genre has *always* been there. And its even been there with semi persistent worlds for a *long* while now. It seems if thats what one wanted one would just need to play these games.
Lob grenade, lob grenade, lob grenade, shoot. Lob grenade, lob grenade, lob grenade, shoot. Call in air strike. Rinse and repeat. No offense OP but if your going to compare any FPS to a MMO please pick a much better one even in sarcasm
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
heres to hoping PS2 will show the OP the error of his judgement.
To be honest I'm not pushing MW3 on anyone. I am really lamenting the state of PVP in MMOs. This post was not really meant for any of the MMO PVE types out there, and what makes a good PVE MMO. I'll let the PVE crowd debate that.
I'm a PVPer at heart and this post was really just a commentary of how poor the MMO developers are in pushing the MMO PVP envelope. The FPS developers are, plain and simple, much more innovative when it comes to PVP. I've pretty much lost hope that the traditional MMO developers will ever deliver on good PVP experience (my guess is, in their heart, most MMORPG developers are ex D&D types who only understand coop PVE).
My bet is an FPS developer will finally cross that threshold into the persistant world genre, and blow the doors off the old school non-innovative MMORPG developers when it comes to PVP.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
DAOC was the best PvP ever done at its pinnacle. Nothing has touched it and I doubt anything ever will. The dream team behind it was scattered to the four corners and the frontiers plus nerfs and other crap set off a chain reaction of death. I still dream of the good old days of Emain RvR. Man, it was the best.....
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
LOL. Modern Warfare series hasn't done anything innovative other then add a monthly fee option since MW2. There is as much innovation in the modern warfare series as there is in the guitar hero and madden series.
Well, the "twitch" point was only point #9 of my post. And, not wanting to start this debate because it is not the purpsoe of my post, but "twitch" skill is only one aspect of being good at an objective based FPS game. It is important no doubt, but I as a 42 year old gamer can outplay many players with much better "twitch" reflexes then I have...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Maybe not groundbreaking, but compared to PVP MMORPG's, the FPS innovation is staggering. That is my point. MMORPG PVP has actually regressed over the last 8 years and it is just plain pathetic...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well actually I would say Global Agenda does group roles better than most MMOs.
That is the only game I enjoy playing a healer in (and medics do ALOT of healing). And the support that Robotics classes can put out is much more novel than most MMO. A well placed forcefield or force dome can be huge.
Its not about FPS. Its just that many FPS don't really have the same roles. A game like modern warfare that had a healer that worked like a typical MMO healer would look really stupid.
In GA where they use the sci-fi theme to have a class that peforms something similar to a MMORPG healer, they actually do it quite well.
Yes, my point exactly. PVP in MMORPG's has literally REGRESSED over the last few years. PVP in FPS games has advanced over that same timeframe. In fact, PVP in FPS games has advanced to the point it has actually surpassed the MMORPG PVP even if you judge it based on the typical criteria of an MMORPG. When a AAA FPS developer finally adds true persistance, game over and the traditional MMORPG's will need to play catch up.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Most MMO pvp ... true. But I would say GW1 and EvE have advanced it. Its just that other MMO developers don't understand that or can't imitate it.
The many types of effects/controls and the counter system of GW1 is superior to EQ/DAOC PvP while still capturing the good aspects of those games. A good mesmer in GW1 was pretty amazing, a well coordinated spike team or pressure or some of the degen teams. The use of cripples and cures and a ton of other things. Its just far more advanced than most other hack and slash MMORPG PvP.
If you want to talk about skill based FPS talk about counter-strike. Other than that, MW3 is not a MMO. It might have multiplayer, but its not a MMO.
MMO and a console FPS are not really comparable. Its like apples and oranges.
It SHOULD be apples and oranges, but the fact is MMO PVP has regressed towards the FPS lobby model while the FPS PVP has expanded to surpass many once MMO-only features. PVP in most MMO's is now directly comparable to the modern FPS, and in fact compares UNFAVORABLEY to the modern FPS.
And, as another poster mentioned, I will admit EVE definately would be a much different experience. EVE is not something you can compare to any FPS and EVE has indeed advanced the MMO PVP (although being an 8 year old game maybe it is just a relic of when MMO PVP was innovative).
But other than EVE, what else? Add up the total number of MMO subscribers and the vast majority are actually PVPing in a much shallower game than even MW3, the supposedly shallowest of the shallows...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The OP doesn't understand the difference between an FPS game and a game with PvP. He doesn't understand one game is persistant & the other has maps 64 players.
Basically the OP's argument is moot, because he is unable to decern history, progeny, nor genra... he is also unable to decern game mechanics and scope of gameplay. So sad really, that we have to sit threw this while he learns his mistakes.
I wonder if the OP played Planetside 5 years ago... or BF2142 5 years ago and can understand the difference.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I sadly agree with you.
To be fair phelcher, most MMO pvp gameplay is instanced lobby based FPS style garbage.
The OP is quite correct. And there is no persistence in modern mmo pvp. Its one battle that is there and then over and has no effect on the outside world.
Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't MAG on the playstation already do this? Isn't it persistent? Like I said, I could be wrong.
i don't really care about the difference of an MMORPG and an FPS. i want my PvP to be the best possible weather i play x or y game. i don't give a rat's ass about history progeny or genra (as you put it) i just want which ever game i chose to buy to have top notch gameplay. and not some half arsed semi finished turd on a plate wether FPS or MMORPG. there is no reason why an MMOFPS can't have MW3 mechanics.
and im sure that has nothing to do with history/progeny or genra.
Surpassed? When was MMORPG PVP ever better than FPS PVP? MMOs had 2 games in its existance that had decent PVP, and one of those two was an FPS.
This is a troll post. Even the OP knows he will get significant negativity in response.
Everything that you say has no merit because to be a true MMO, it must have a persistent world. Call of Duty, today, is a OFPSRPGMG. An Online First Person Shooter Role Playing Multiplayer Game. It is not massive at all. It is a multiplayer shooter that has some role playing elements. It has no place for discussion here.
You will not convince anyone. When Activision manages to put 300 players in the same map at the same time, without any lag, at a solid framerate, on an average computer, then we can revisit this topic.
Just to throw my two cents in here. Battlefield is more of a MMO than Call of Duty(And it's not). At least you can play with up to 63 other players at the same time.