But many P2P games fail and are forced to become F2P, usually is it because the game try to take over after Wow without being a better game (as good is not enough, it need to be better).
On the other hand did Rift surprisingly good so anything can happen.
Ummm? Is there a epidemic of P2P game turning F2P after few month or something? Everysingle P2P game that turn F2P has already bee P2P for a godo number of years. L6 has been P2P for around 6? Aion 3 years? and LOTR even had 3 years or so. So where the hell is this P2P game going F2P after few month thread everyone is talking about coz i'm not seeing it.
L2 was a beast of a game a true mmo. The best content in L2 was the player made content of the alliances fighting each other and all the back stabbing.
Don't get me wrong and hate; i loved it!
I've enjoyed the betas I've been in Tera and I hope it will stay true to L1/L2 and have the same player base that wants to have more player based politics than hand feeding you a political system that you have no real ability to change with hard work and team work.
Most new games that are p2p nowadays do not stand a chance anyway.
They stand no more chance as P2P MMOs than they did before F2P became popular.
A newer P2P MMO would fail for the same exact reason it would have failed before: Not enough people find it fun enough to pay for or subscribe to, the developer don't make enough money to keep going, game shuts down. That's the way it's always been.
That F2P is all the rage now doesn't suddenly change the 10+ years of history that came before it.
RIFT is a P2P MMO that is considered a solid and fun enough MMO by enough people to make it worth paying a sub. Therefor, RIFT is still going.
The same goes for WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, TOR, and will for TERA, The Secret World, and so on.
Developers go with F2P for one reason: $$$. They can get far more revenue from a Cash Shop where people can spend as much as they want, as often as they want, than they can from a standard $15 monthly fee. That's it.
Just as has been said in the past, P2P MMOs go F2P only when they're not performing well as P2P. Otherwise they either remain P2P, or they are developed as F2P/Cash Shop in the first place. That's pretty much the pattern they've been following.
On that note, I would say that TERA stands the chance of succeeding as well as any other P2P MMO has had. If it's good enough to enough people in this market to keep it sustained, then it'll be fine. Will it be as huge as WoW or whatever? Probably or not. But then, does it have to? Does it matter? Are people choosing their games because they enjoy them, or based on how popular they are?
L2 was a beast of a game a true mmo. The best content in L2 was the player made content of the alliances fighting each other and all the back stabbing.
Don't get me wrong and hate; i loved it!
I've enjoyed the betas I've been in Tera and I hope it will stay true to L1/L2 and have the same player base that wants to have more player based politics than hand feeding you a political system that you have no real ability to change with hard work and team work.
I agree there, because when you do game like WoW where its all based on given content its meh to me. I mean you can add raid after raid after raid after raid after raid but sooner or later they all feel the same. Which is why i like eastern games more as they are more based on player driven content. I liked Aika for its political system only down side was overpowered cash shop and insane grinding after 51. But its politcal system kept the game alive. I hope Tera's political system will do the same and with the addition of server vs server and i REALY hope seige, i mean come on these guy are L1/L2 dev team so i don't think they let siege pass by them like that. Will be niche but i'm glad, i can't stand big mmos coz they are all focus toward casual players which want lot of things i don't.
Judging from what I have heard from the beta rumor mill, Tera will probably end up f2p within its first year....
thats likely true of just about EVERY MMO coming out in the last year.
people have this ridiculous concept that F2P means a game 'failed', when in reality it just makes more money. LOTRO was far from failing when it switched. businesses like to make MORE money than what they currently make. shocking i know.
so why would they release a game they know will be F2P down the road as subscription right now?
here's another shocker.... its a well proven business strategy to milk early adopters and people who can't wait to experience your product for the maxiumum amount of money, and over time release it more widely and with cheaper options.
are movies in the $1 theater or available to rent on the day of their release? hell no.
companies who release games as F2P right off the bat would be throwing away alot of free money by not having those initial box sales., and causing themselves needless "launch rush" complications with server overcrowding, queues etc. also they'd be missing on having a 2nd launch with lots of free publicity and lots of new people trying the game when they switchover to F2P
F2P is being PLANNED as the eventual goal for most MMOs nowadays. are these simple business strategies really that hard to comprehend?
I agree with all of what you said. I've played many F2P and Subscription MMORPG's and several F2P games are of a higher quality then some subscription games. But the real kicker was when I was playing Eden Eternal and I found out how much money some of my guildmates and the players would spend on the game. Some people would spend over 1,000 USD every month on cash shop items. I myself played Eden Eternal for 6 months and spent 0 USD. The game fortunately allowed all cash shop items to be traded for in-game gold. So I was able to grind gold to purchase all the "pay2win" power I needed. But I had many other guildmates who would spend 40-100 dollars per week. That amount of money makes up for alot of subscriptions, and with less customer support and server maintenance costs.
From a business standpoint, addicting free2play cash shop games are where its at. It sucks, I hate it, MMORPG's were supposed to be the one place where a person's IRL financial status didn't matter. But unfortunately, thats the way the market is going, because thats where the money is at. Thats just economics.
I wasn't looking for attention or fame from it. I was just trying to get a general idea on what people thought of the game. I'm personally reconsidering on my preorder for the game. I've done 2 out of the 3 CBT's for the game and it has it's fun moments but I'm mainly going into this for the dungeon/raids. But after experiencing the only 2 they have, I'm just not happy with it. I think World Of Warcraft had more dungeons ready on release then what Tera is giving us. I know this is a Koren import but the least they could of done is maybe add a little more content?
your assuming end game content on 2 dungeons with a 32 cap..... at the previous 58 cap or ktera there were 7 dungeon just for 58, 2 more was added for 60 cap raise. We are getting the 60 cap at launch with the lvl 58 dungeons moved up and down, so just between lvl 50-60 you got good possibly 7-10+ dungeons and at least 3-5 of them are hard mode. I don't know how many WoW launched with but thats a lot of dungeons.
if dungeons means quality im out of these kind of games cause i hate all instance stuff, as long as this game haves some nice balanced fair world pvp im in, Dungeons are in crappy games as WoW and LoTRO, so you have the idea
So, I have had this burning in my mind for quite some time and I've been really wanting to ask this to you guys here. I've preordered this game already and I'm ready to go for the official launch. But I've been thinking like hardcore lately about it but do you guys see this game having a chance compared to games like World Of Warcraft? Or even SWTOR? I've been contemplating making dungeon/raid guides for this game but the one thing holding me back is the lack of attention the videos will get. So what say you?
Tera really doesn't have to compete with SWTOR, they are just total polar opposites in what they're attempting. SWTOR has zero options for PvP and Tera will build a majority of itself around PvP so they will attract different players. Not to mention SWTOR is on a course for a $150million crash and burn.
WoW has a little bit more to offer PvP wise, but they have failed on a pretty massive scale as far as PvP balance goes and have pretty much given up on competitive PvP.
There is clearly a devoted player-base who have been waiting for something lik Tera to come around, so I don't think it will have trouble succeeding. It's not going to be a WoW killer because, they just aren't anything alike, but it will be a great alternative.
I'm sure you'll see a dip in population when GW2 comes out, all games will I imagine. My question is how many months before those people come back to thier previous games, or try new ones, once the sheen of GW2 is stripped off?
My hope is that BH and EME are prepared for the drought and ride it out without making drastic changes.
The problem with F2P and B2P for that matter is you get what you pay for. There is no magical money tree for either of those two models. With so many titles adding to the F2P invasion there aren't many games to "live" in anymore. They all have one or two gimmicks and it's turned our PCs into consoles. I'll always pick a P2P with constant updates.
The age of purchased clients is dying. More and more people want to download a client for free and just play...
Well I want a new car for free, but wanting something and having a quality free product is totally different. Until GW2 I just don't see any top tier subscription free MMO out there.
Which as a note to the original idea of the OP, GW2 is going to be Tera's main competition imo.
The age of purchased clients is dying. More and more people want to download a client for free and just play...
Well I want a new car for free, but wanting something and having a quality free product is totally different. Until GW2 I just don't see any top tier subscription free MMO out there.
Which as a note to the original idea of the OP, GW2 is going to be Tera's main competition imo.
It will be every games competition for a few months at least. I'll be surprised if it doesn't reach 5mil sales.
It definitely stands a chance because it offers something different than most of whats out there. SWTOR/WoW/Rift/etc are all competing for a similar type of gameplay experience and market while Tera is quite different. I think because of this it can co exist better than most of the others and it won't be so tied to population shifts with others. GW2 will surely hurt all of these titles, but I think that Tera is different enough and scratches a certain itch that will allow it to survive as a nice little niche game.
The age of purchased clients is dying. More and more people want to download a client for free and just play...
Well I want a new car for free, but wanting something and having a quality free product is totally different. Until GW2 I just don't see any top tier subscription free MMO out there.
Which as a note to the original idea of the OP, GW2 is going to be Tera's main competition imo.
It will be every games competition for a few months at least. I'll be surprised if it doesn't reach 5mil sales.
It's actually a unique situation, and interesting to say the least.
Alot of people will be buying GW2 because it has no monthly sub so people won't feel "locked" into the game. People feel they HAVE to play a monthly sub MMO a certain amount of hours a day to make the sub fee worth it, so they'll pull in quite a few single player gamers.
A quality non-sub game will have amazing sales, but a lot of them will not be super consistent players (but at the same time I'm not sure that the dev's will really care if they bog down their servers after they've already purchased the game).
To see a non-sub game compete with classic MMO model could potentially change the way all MMO's are produced, depending on its success. I'm less excited for the game, and more excited to see how this will all play out.
As I said before, it has a chance, but I can t possibly see big numbers at all. It s niche and releasing amongst some big names. I think the open world pvp will wear thin on alot of people after awhile.
True though there are PvE servers as well. The MMO landscape changes with every new title or one that goes F2P. As it stands now I think TERA will have a suprising amount of sales early, drop a bit when GW2 comes out but then pop back up once people have had their fill of GW2. This is assuming that while this is going on TERA continues to be run solidly. At NA launch it should be pretty content packed but they'll have to keep it up to contend.
People do get very picky about 15.00, this is true. In the end that 15.00, if used correctly by the company taking it, will give you so much more over time. 15.00 is such a small price to pay for a months worth of entertainment yet people act as though it's a second mortgage hehe.
I missed the early days of MMOs. My first experience was less than 10 hours of Asherons Call at a cousins house long ago. Since then only Phantasy Star gave me a really good experience. I even missed vanilla WoWs experience and only started right before WotLK on BC, which was decent.
Since SWTOR didn't really capture the early days, I'm looking forward to this game and GW2 launches. I actually have time to enjoy some MMO launches. I think TERA and GW2 are good choices after my first dispointment of a laucnh akin to Star Wars. Hehe. It could have been Star Wars, yet the laughter I've gotten from paradies about that game (TORtanic) was worth being apart of the game.
I believe it'll stabilize with 100-150k subs after 3 months. It is a niche game and their marketing department is horrible, but it has gotten the attention of a good number of pvp guilds. The combat system has me hooked, TERA has taken raised the bar for amount twitch skill required in an mmo game, and I don't think I could ever play a tab targeting mmo again. Ironically, the same combat system which has many people hooked will deter a lot of ppl from the game because it's "hard" or "different."
If BHS can ramp up the pvp experience in the game, I'll be subbing for years to come.
Drop everything, maplestory 2 is going in to development!!! Drop everything and wait 3-5years+ for it to come out!!
Ok joke over =X now on topic, it will be niche personally i think its a good thing at least that mean the game is more tailor made to toward the player than toward so many players that they can do nothing but focus on the casual player which is usally the largest group least effected by the game.
I believe it'll stabilize with 100-150k subs after 3 months. It is a niche game and their marketing department is horrible, but it has gotten the attention of a good number of pvp guilds. The combat system has me hooked, TERA has taken raised the bar for amount twitch skill required in an mmo game, and I don't think I could ever play a tab targeting mmo again. Ironically, the same combat system which has many people hooked will deter a lot of ppl from the game because it's "hard" or "different."
If BHS can ramp up the pvp experience in the game, I'll be subbing for years to come.
I agree but one thing i don't like is the WoW like graphics just better but once i get to try out the combat and if it is great like i hope it is i might e a long time subber to but we will see. For subs tho don't forget the asian market but i agree in america might settle at that number you said. Also wondering how there servers will be like since there are none in the usa.
I believe it'll stabilize with 100-150k subs after 3 months. It is a niche game and their marketing department is horrible, but it has gotten the attention of a good number of pvp guilds. The combat system has me hooked, TERA has taken raised the bar for amount twitch skill required in an mmo game, and I don't think I could ever play a tab targeting mmo again. Ironically, the same combat system which has many people hooked will deter a lot of ppl from the game because it's "hard" or "different."
If BHS can ramp up the pvp experience in the game, I'll be subbing for years to come.
I agree but one thing i don't like is the WoW like graphics just better but once i get to try out the combat and if it is great like i hope it is i might e a long time subber to but we will see. For subs tho don't forget the asian market but i agree in america might settle at that number you said. Also wondering how there servers will be like since there are none in the usa.
WoW like graphics O.O.... i might suggest seeing a eye doctor because its like the polar oppoiste in term of art style and graphics o.o WoW is extremely westernized cartoon/comic while Tera is completely Asian anime style o.o Lot of reason Tera is a niche because its graphic/art differs so greatly from western game like WoW/Rift/SWTOR.
I believe it'll stabilize with 100-150k subs after 3 months. It is a niche game and their marketing department is horrible, but it has gotten the attention of a good number of pvp guilds. The combat system has me hooked, TERA has taken raised the bar for amount twitch skill required in an mmo game, and I don't think I could ever play a tab targeting mmo again. Ironically, the same combat system which has many people hooked will deter a lot of ppl from the game because it's "hard" or "different."
If BHS can ramp up the pvp experience in the game, I'll be subbing for years to come.
I agree but one thing i don't like is the WoW like graphics just better but once i get to try out the combat and if it is great like i hope it is i might e a long time subber to but we will see. For subs tho don't forget the asian market but i agree in america might settle at that number you said. Also wondering how there servers will be like since there are none in the usa.
WoW like graphics O.O.... i might suggest seeing a eye doctor because its like the polar oppoiste in term of art style and graphics o.o WoW is extremely westernized cartoon/comic while Tera is completely Asian anime style o.o Lot of reason Tera is a niche because its graphic/art differs so greatly from western game like WoW/Rift/SWTOR.
well your eye doctor gave you the wrong glasses then also since i can show you and name you over 10 000 reasons why it's the same it's just a higher quality that is all. And no you i won't bother naming out the crap i don't got hours to make you look dumb sorry.
Comments
Hmm? GW2 is non subscription from the get go. What are you talking about? What's the difference with F2P cash shop? The initial cost?
Ummm? Is there a epidemic of P2P game turning F2P after few month or something? Everysingle P2P game that turn F2P has already bee P2P for a godo number of years. L6 has been P2P for around 6? Aion 3 years? and LOTR even had 3 years or so. So where the hell is this P2P game going F2P after few month thread everyone is talking about coz i'm not seeing it.
L2 was a beast of a game a true mmo. The best content in L2 was the player made content of the alliances fighting each other and all the back stabbing.
Don't get me wrong and hate; i loved it!
I've enjoyed the betas I've been in Tera and I hope it will stay true to L1/L2 and have the same player base that wants to have more player based politics than hand feeding you a political system that you have no real ability to change with hard work and team work.
They stand no more chance as P2P MMOs than they did before F2P became popular.
A newer P2P MMO would fail for the same exact reason it would have failed before: Not enough people find it fun enough to pay for or subscribe to, the developer don't make enough money to keep going, game shuts down. That's the way it's always been.
That F2P is all the rage now doesn't suddenly change the 10+ years of history that came before it.
RIFT is a P2P MMO that is considered a solid and fun enough MMO by enough people to make it worth paying a sub. Therefor, RIFT is still going.
The same goes for WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, TOR, and will for TERA, The Secret World, and so on.
Developers go with F2P for one reason: $$$. They can get far more revenue from a Cash Shop where people can spend as much as they want, as often as they want, than they can from a standard $15 monthly fee. That's it.
Just as has been said in the past, P2P MMOs go F2P only when they're not performing well as P2P. Otherwise they either remain P2P, or they are developed as F2P/Cash Shop in the first place. That's pretty much the pattern they've been following.
On that note, I would say that TERA stands the chance of succeeding as well as any other P2P MMO has had. If it's good enough to enough people in this market to keep it sustained, then it'll be fine. Will it be as huge as WoW or whatever? Probably or not. But then, does it have to? Does it matter? Are people choosing their games because they enjoy them, or based on how popular they are?
Sure it stands a chance!
Yes, it may have many conventional mmorpg features but for some out there, combat and the graphics alone would be enough to satisfy these players.
It will definately have its niche.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
I agree there, because when you do game like WoW where its all based on given content its meh to me. I mean you can add raid after raid after raid after raid after raid but sooner or later they all feel the same. Which is why i like eastern games more as they are more based on player driven content. I liked Aika for its political system only down side was overpowered cash shop and insane grinding after 51. But its politcal system kept the game alive. I hope Tera's political system will do the same and with the addition of server vs server and i REALY hope seige, i mean come on these guy are L1/L2 dev team so i don't think they let siege pass by them like that. Will be niche but i'm glad, i can't stand big mmos coz they are all focus toward casual players which want lot of things i don't.
I agree with all of what you said. I've played many F2P and Subscription MMORPG's and several F2P games are of a higher quality then some subscription games. But the real kicker was when I was playing Eden Eternal and I found out how much money some of my guildmates and the players would spend on the game. Some people would spend over 1,000 USD every month on cash shop items. I myself played Eden Eternal for 6 months and spent 0 USD. The game fortunately allowed all cash shop items to be traded for in-game gold. So I was able to grind gold to purchase all the "pay2win" power I needed. But I had many other guildmates who would spend 40-100 dollars per week. That amount of money makes up for alot of subscriptions, and with less customer support and server maintenance costs.
From a business standpoint, addicting free2play cash shop games are where its at. It sucks, I hate it, MMORPG's were supposed to be the one place where a person's IRL financial status didn't matter. But unfortunately, thats the way the market is going, because thats where the money is at. Thats just economics.
Dungeons are in crappy games as WoW and LoTRO, so you have the idea
Tera really doesn't have to compete with SWTOR, they are just total polar opposites in what they're attempting. SWTOR has zero options for PvP and Tera will build a majority of itself around PvP so they will attract different players. Not to mention SWTOR is on a course for a $150million crash and burn.
WoW has a little bit more to offer PvP wise, but they have failed on a pretty massive scale as far as PvP balance goes and have pretty much given up on competitive PvP.
There is clearly a devoted player-base who have been waiting for something lik Tera to come around, so I don't think it will have trouble succeeding. It's not going to be a WoW killer because, they just aren't anything alike, but it will be a great alternative.
The age of purchased clients is dying. More and more people want to download a client for free and just play...
My hope is that BH and EME are prepared for the drought and ride it out without making drastic changes.
Just not worth my time anymore.
The problem with F2P and B2P for that matter is you get what you pay for. There is no magical money tree for either of those two models. With so many titles adding to the F2P invasion there aren't many games to "live" in anymore. They all have one or two gimmicks and it's turned our PCs into consoles. I'll always pick a P2P with constant updates.
Just not worth my time anymore.
Well I want a new car for free, but wanting something and having a quality free product is totally different. Until GW2 I just don't see any top tier subscription free MMO out there.
Which as a note to the original idea of the OP, GW2 is going to be Tera's main competition imo.
It will be every games competition for a few months at least. I'll be surprised if it doesn't reach 5mil sales.
Just not worth my time anymore.
It definitely stands a chance because it offers something different than most of whats out there. SWTOR/WoW/Rift/etc are all competing for a similar type of gameplay experience and market while Tera is quite different. I think because of this it can co exist better than most of the others and it won't be so tied to population shifts with others. GW2 will surely hurt all of these titles, but I think that Tera is different enough and scratches a certain itch that will allow it to survive as a nice little niche game.
It's actually a unique situation, and interesting to say the least.
Alot of people will be buying GW2 because it has no monthly sub so people won't feel "locked" into the game. People feel they HAVE to play a monthly sub MMO a certain amount of hours a day to make the sub fee worth it, so they'll pull in quite a few single player gamers.
A quality non-sub game will have amazing sales, but a lot of them will not be super consistent players (but at the same time I'm not sure that the dev's will really care if they bog down their servers after they've already purchased the game).
To see a non-sub game compete with classic MMO model could potentially change the way all MMO's are produced, depending on its success. I'm less excited for the game, and more excited to see how this will all play out.
As I said before, it has a chance, but I can t possibly see big numbers at all. It s niche and releasing amongst some big names. I think the open world pvp will wear thin on alot of people after awhile.
People do get very picky about 15.00, this is true. In the end that 15.00, if used correctly by the company taking it, will give you so much more over time. 15.00 is such a small price to pay for a months worth of entertainment yet people act as though it's a second mortgage hehe.
Just not worth my time anymore.
I just need that TERA have a political system, where gives some meaning to pvp, to make this game my new home.
If i like the political system, i dont care about any other games for awhile.
I'm in.
Looking forward to friday 12 noon lots actually.
I missed the early days of MMOs. My first experience was less than 10 hours of Asherons Call at a cousins house long ago. Since then only Phantasy Star gave me a really good experience. I even missed vanilla WoWs experience and only started right before WotLK on BC, which was decent.
Since SWTOR didn't really capture the early days, I'm looking forward to this game and GW2 launches. I actually have time to enjoy some MMO launches. I think TERA and GW2 are good choices after my first dispointment of a laucnh akin to Star Wars. Hehe. It could have been Star Wars, yet the laughter I've gotten from paradies about that game (TORtanic) was worth being apart of the game.
I believe it'll stabilize with 100-150k subs after 3 months. It is a niche game and their marketing department is horrible, but it has gotten the attention of a good number of pvp guilds. The combat system has me hooked, TERA has taken raised the bar for amount twitch skill required in an mmo game, and I don't think I could ever play a tab targeting mmo again. Ironically, the same combat system which has many people hooked will deter a lot of ppl from the game because it's "hard" or "different."
If BHS can ramp up the pvp experience in the game, I'll be subbing for years to come.
Drop everything, maplestory 2 is going in to development!!! Drop everything and wait 3-5years+ for it to come out!!
Ok joke over =X now on topic, it will be niche personally i think its a good thing at least that mean the game is more tailor made to toward the player than toward so many players that they can do nothing but focus on the casual player which is usally the largest group least effected by the game.
I agree but one thing i don't like is the WoW like graphics just better but once i get to try out the combat and if it is great like i hope it is i might e a long time subber to but we will see. For subs tho don't forget the asian market but i agree in america might settle at that number you said. Also wondering how there servers will be like since there are none in the usa.
WoW like graphics O.O.... i might suggest seeing a eye doctor because its like the polar oppoiste in term of art style and graphics o.o WoW is extremely westernized cartoon/comic while Tera is completely Asian anime style o.o Lot of reason Tera is a niche because its graphic/art differs so greatly from western game like WoW/Rift/SWTOR.
well your eye doctor gave you the wrong glasses then also since i can show you and name you over 10 000 reasons why it's the same it's just a higher quality that is all. And no you i won't bother naming out the crap i don't got hours to make you look dumb sorry.