Cash shops in general, whether cosmetic or p2w are a plague on mmos. But they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon so I just gotta deal with it.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Cash shops in general, whether cosmetic or p2w are a plague on mmos. But they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon so I just gotta deal with it.
If you ever want to see p2w on steroids and how bad it could ever get, try out BSG online. Now that's p2w, literally.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Cash shops in general, whether cosmetic or p2w are a plague on mmos. But they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon so I just gotta deal with it.
No they're not. Especially not in a game with a model like GW2s' of buying the software then no monthly fees.
Sure cash shops can BECOME bad - like with some games out there which have required purchase from them in order to progress - but they're not inherently bad.
No they're not. Especially not in a game with a model like GW2s' of buying the software then no monthly fees.
Sure cash shops can BECOME bad - like with some games out there which have required purchase from them in order to progress - but they're not inherently bad.
It's not only about what they sell it's about how they sell. I'm fine with a cashshop as long as they keep it out of my everyday gaming experience. Which means I don't want constant reminders about it existing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I find it funny watching all these people try to twist logic every which way in order to avoid admitting a cash shop system is turning out to be pay to win. Call a spade a spade.
I find it funny watching all these people make assumptions about a cash shop whose inventory is unknown. Nobody knows with certainty what is in the cash shop (not even Anet/NCsoft are fully sure what will be in it at this point), so it is foolish to jump to the conclusion that the cash shop is definitely p2w or definitely not p2w.
We can compare this to all sorts of cash shops that belong to all sorts of games. But there's only one relative game with a cash shop to be looking at in regards to GW2.
That would be Guild Wars 1 . Has a cash shop. Is not pay to win. Been out for a very long time. Period.
I find it funny watching all these people try to twist logic every which way in order to avoid admitting a cash shop system is turning out to be pay to win. Call a spade a spade.
I find it funny watching all these people make assumptions about a cash shop whose inventory is unknown. Nobody knows with certainty what is in the cash shop (not even Anet/NCsoft are fully sure what will be in it at this point), so it is foolish to jump to the conclusion that the cash shop is definitely p2w or definitely not p2w.
We can compare this to all sorts of cash shops that belong to all sorts of games. But there's only one relative game with a cash shop to be looking at in regards to GW2.
That would be Guild Wars 1 . Has a cash shop. Is not pay to win. Been out for a very long time. Period.
Well we now have some cash shop items to speculate on:
the bad IMO
There are karma boosts
Mystic key - this is BS imo, loot drops that you need cash to open
as for the rest, none really to write home about
typical stuff like xp boost, repair kits, bank portal, res orb,crafting boost, dye box, transmutation stones...ect
No idea what a Ringmaster's hat is???
Gotta agree on the Karma Boosts and Mystic key, especially the latter, all I can say is I'd be pissed if I loot something and have to spend rl cash to open it/use it.
YOu know how I felt up to this point.
Right now, I am PISSED about these two items.
Not too happy with the res stones and the loot bags either.
Gotta agree on the Karma Boosts and Mystic key, especially the latter, all I can say is I'd be pissed if I loot something and have to spend rl cash to open it/use it.
Mystic Key might be an upgraded normal key. If it was the ONLY way to open a chest looted in-game, then I'd expect whatever comes out of it to be a cash shop related too. Sort of a gamble item.
I find it funny watching all these people try to twist logic every which way in order to avoid admitting a cash shop system is turning out to be pay to win. Call a spade a spade.
I find it funny watching all these people make assumptions about a cash shop whose inventory is unknown. Nobody knows with certainty what is in the cash shop (not even Anet/NCsoft are fully sure what will be in it at this point), so it is foolish to jump to the conclusion that the cash shop is definitely p2w or definitely not p2w.
We can compare this to all sorts of cash shops that belong to all sorts of games. But there's only one relative game with a cash shop to be looking at in regards to GW2.
That would be Guild Wars 1 . Has a cash shop. Is not pay to win. Been out for a very long time. Period.
No, not period. Just because in an old game that they had a limited investment in, they did it one way, doesn't mean they will do it exactly the same way. This game costa lot more to make, and without subs, they will need to have an income source greater than GW1, and I'm not saying it will get out of hand, but the temptation or need will be greater. Some of the things Bunk listed that are in the store already are on or near the line of imbalance, so it is fair for potential customers to be wary of this, until we know more.
We can compare this to all sorts of cash shops that belong to all sorts of games. But there's only one relative game with a cash shop to be looking at in regards to GW2.
Not really, this game is a different beast than GW1 was, they did what was needed for GW1 they will do what is needed for GW2. IF that means they need to add more incentive to pruchase from the cash shop, they will add more incentive to purchase from the cash shop. Bigger game, means more upkeep, more expense leads to new methods.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Starting after the maintenance this Thursday (February 9, 2012), a new item will begin dropping as loot in the game. This item is called a Cardassian Lock Box."
For me it's not the idea of what's inside, it's the reminder of the cash-shop and it's intrusion into my experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Second, take into account the gem/gold trading system. Everything that is in the store will basically be available for gold with this system – so it doesn’t really matter what is in the store, as it is also available for players who play and don’t want to spend additional money. Hope that helps! ~RB2"
So it really doesn't matter if the cash shop sells items of power.
Hey, he left the door open, not me.
*sigh* They should have left this alone until they could show some of the items in the cash shop. Now people will jump on this and do exactly what you said Kyleran. I guess Rubi is new to this whole PR thing.
No they should not, imagine what would have happened if they expained this afte 10th of April.
But yes, they should come with a list of all the types of things they plan selling in the item shop beofre 10th of april. That would only be fair to everyone.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Few thing stand out to me that are alarming on that list:
Mystic key - Seriously, we're gonna have lock boxes that cannot be opened without one of these? Seems like complete bullshit to me.
Magic found boost - Also incredibly lame for obvious reasons
Instant repair kit - You gotta be fucking kidding me. This out of all seems the most ridiculous
Perfect salvage kit - Sounds incredibly reminiscent of many f2p games that have this and if you don't use one ends up giving you shit the majority of the time
Megaphone - Why is this even needed? Is it an aesthetic item or are they going to pull that bullshit where you have to use a megaphone to talk cross zone or world?
12 loot bag - Better be feasible to get these in game outside of those that want to prep out from the word go.
Gotta say, I don't feel near as comfortable with their cash shop with this revelation as I did before. Some of these seem perfectly reasonable while others appear to be complete bullshit.
Hope they use the beta to rethink or revamp some of these.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You negative nancies are worse than lawyers trying to split hairs. It's simple, anet has clarified multiple times that there will be no advantage. In plain English. You can go ahead and try to re-interpret it however you like, from information that you don't have. But it doesn't hold a candle to what anet has said more than once. Why not simply wait to judge if they are true to their word by seeing what is in the cash shop? Or are you really chomping at the bit hoping it is really bad? Pathetic, either way.
If only I haven't seen that very arguement before.
It's not an argument.
Unlike you, I dont use conjecture and pretend that I know what the items are that are in the cash shope, and that the items in the cash shop will imbalance the game. Double logical leap there.
I think that's a hypocrytical statement. Because that's exactly what you are doing. You are pretending to know what's in there and that it's all good. Where as I am being skeptical because I do not know what is in there.
There are plenty of games with cash shops, even WOW, that have no problems whatsoever. There are also games with cash shop systems like GW2 with no problems either.
So until you know what the details are, it's pointless to claim that you know.
I am speaking out because I don't know...You are the one claming to know and that it's all fine and dandy. It may not be.
Are you being daft?
0. I never claimed to know what was in the cash shop. I only claim to know the goal of the cash shop. Let's not be a jerk and have you pretend like Anet or myself have given any specifics about what gear is being sold in there; there is no information.
1. I know what Anet said about their intent for the cash shop. It is well documented more than once. There will be no advantage to players that spend more money.
2. I know what you claim, that the cash shop will imbalance the game. You are ASSUMING many things that you dont know. Name 3 things in the cash shop that you can purchase with gems. Be specific, and also prove that they will imbalance the game.
What's that? You have nothing to compare? Well then, you should stop arguing like you know what you are talking about.
I have never made an assumption. Not once. You aren't hearing what I am saying. It is because there are no specifics that I am concerned. You however did make the same assumption you accuse me of. You cannot say with all certainty with one sentence "There won't be any advantage in the cash shop" and in the next tell me "We have no idea what will be in the cash shop" and expect me to take you seriously. It doesn't work both ways.
And No, ANet didn't say they wouldn't put advantages in the cash shop. they only said it's not their philosophy.....Big difference. Sounds like semantics, but those are the exact slick loopholes corporate PR people love to use. If it sounds like I am stretching it, I'll be happy to show you that exact same sentiment stated by a certain game director from another Sub Fee based game that introduced a fully fledged cash shop. And then see those words "We will not sell power" and "Our focus is on Social and cosmetic items" twisted and how it lead to a total P2W set up. Experience is a bitch of a teacher aint it? But see, you don't have it....yet. You haven't been burned this way....yet. That's why you still believe what you read on the Internet.
3 things? Before I go and list the 3 things in the cash shop, I'd like you to paste my previous quotes where I discussed 3 specific items you seem bent on accusing me of where I am assuming I know what's in the shop. Then I'll be happy to explain why I think those specific item I stated in previous posts are bad. And besides, Theoretically, it could only take one item to wreck a game. However, since you brought it up......Tell me why buying gold with real money is good for a game. Oh and by the way. All the other games that had their economies trashed didn't have that gold spawn from nothing either. Someone had to earn it....all of it. No game I know of was different....That's why its called gold FARMING. and not gold spawning. So the excuse that it's ok because some player already earned it, is a lame cover up and makes me even more suspiscious.
Few thing stand out to me that are alarming on that list:
mystic key - Seriously, we're gonna have lock boxes that cannot be opened without one of these? Seems like complete bullshit to me.
Magic found boost - Also incredibly lame for obvious reasons
Instant repair kit - You gotta be fucking kidding me. This out of all seems the most ridiculous
Perfect salvage kit - Sounds incredibly reminiscent of many f2p games that have this and if you don't use one ends up giving you shit the majority of the time
Megaphone - Why is this even needed? Is it an aestheic item of are they going to pull that bullshit where you have to use a megaphone to talk cross zone or world?
12 loot bag - Better be feasible to get these in game outside of those that want to prep out from the word go.
Gotta say, I don't feel near as comfortable with their cash shop with this revelation as I did before. Some of these seem perfectly reasonable while others appear to be complete bullshit.
Hope they use the beta to rethink or revamp some of these.
Okay Ive defended it this evening but I have to agree. Im no longer comfortable either. Some of these will only be profitable if the main game is lacking and you need to buy them for a boost!
I was going to buy expansions and the game itself. I dont buy cash shop crap.
Maybe since we can buy or earn gems in game this will all work itself out regardless but some of these items I really dont like that they're there. Its troubling.
Few thing stand out to me that are alarming on that list:
mystic key - Seriously, we're gonna have lock boxes that cannot be opened without one of these? Seems like complete bullshit to me.
Magic found boost - Also incredibly lame for obvious reasons
Instant repair kit - You gotta be fucking kidding me. This out of all seems the most ridiculous
Perfect salvage kit - Sounds incredibly reminiscent of many f2p games that have this and if you don't use one ends up giving you shit the majority of the time
Megaphone - Why is this even needed? Is it an aestheic item of are they going to pull that bullshit where you have to use a megaphone to talk cross zone or world?
12 loot bag - Better be feasible to get these in game outside of those that want to prep out from the word go.
Gotta say, I don't feel near as comfortable with their cash shop with this revelation as I did before. Some of these seem perfectly reasonable while others appear to be complete bullshit.
Hope they use the beta to rethink or revamp some of these.
Okay Ive defended it this evening but I have to agree. Im no longer comfortable either. Some of these will only be profitable if the main game is lacking and you need to buy them for a boost!
I was going to buy expansions and the game itself. I dont buy cash shop crap.
Maybe since we can buy or earn gems in game this will all work itself out regardless but some of these items I really dont like that they're there. Its troubling.
The Resurrect Orb seems questionable as well but from the title of it hard to gauge what it will do overall in comparison to not using one so could be a worry as well. I gotta say least initially some of this shit seems ridiculous. We'll see how it plays out though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I really really hope that the item shop items leaked aren`t for real or final. I´m fine with item skins, costumes and the like or minipets. But I am totally against boots, repair kits, resurrection kits or random item bags or keys.
To me the latter isn`t cosmetic anymore, and that´s not ok for me, even if you can argue it dosn`t give you a real advantage because items are wayne beyond the looks. I think that kind of stuff CAN break the game, it dosn`t have to, but it has the potential. Especially when you put stuff in with good intentions, players will find a way to exploit it in ways you never anticipated. And if there is a way to exploit it people will exploit it.
Few thing stand out to me that are alarming on that list:
mystic key - Seriously, we're gonna have lock boxes that cannot be opened without one of these? Seems like complete bullshit to me.
Magic found boost - Also incredibly lame for obvious reasons
Instant repair kit - You gotta be fucking kidding me. This out of all seems the most ridiculous
Perfect salvage kit - Sounds incredibly reminiscent of many f2p games that have this and if you don't use one ends up giving you shit the majority of the time
Megaphone - Why is this even needed? Is it an aestheic item of are they going to pull that bullshit where you have to use a megaphone to talk cross zone or world?
12 loot bag - Better be feasible to get these in game outside of those that want to prep out from the word go.
Gotta say, I don't feel near as comfortable with their cash shop with this revelation as I did before. Some of these seem perfectly reasonable while others appear to be complete bullshit.
Hope they use the beta to rethink or revamp some of these.
Umphf, yeah. Some RNG stuff too:
- Loot Bags (the hard core gambler can get 5 or 10 for a discount)
- Mystic key
- Dye Box
- Minis (?)
GambleWars2 anyone?
Makes sense because GW1 had this built in "quest for the best bonusses" as well.
edit: removed transmutation stones because the results from those aren't random.
edit: removed Salvage Kits because they yield raw mats.
Comments
Cash shops in general, whether cosmetic or p2w are a plague on mmos. But they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon so I just gotta deal with it.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
If you ever want to see p2w on steroids and how bad it could ever get, try out BSG online. Now that's p2w, literally.
LOL"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
that and the mystic keys are complete BS imo. Mystic keys are like the same crap STO tried to pull with cardassian lock boxes.
No they're not. Especially not in a game with a model like GW2s' of buying the software then no monthly fees.
Sure cash shops can BECOME bad - like with some games out there which have required purchase from them in order to progress - but they're not inherently bad.
It's not only about what they sell it's about how they sell. I'm fine with a cashshop as long as they keep it out of my everyday gaming experience. Which means I don't want constant reminders about it existing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We can compare this to all sorts of cash shops that belong to all sorts of games. But there's only one relative game with a cash shop to be looking at in regards to GW2.
That would be Guild Wars 1 . Has a cash shop. Is not pay to win. Been out for a very long time. Period.
+1
Guild Wars will never become pay to win
YOu know how I felt up to this point.
Right now, I am PISSED about these two items.
Not too happy with the res stones and the loot bags either.
Mystic Key might be an upgraded normal key. If it was the ONLY way to open a chest looted in-game, then I'd expect whatever comes out of it to be a cash shop related too. Sort of a gamble item.
No, not period. Just because in an old game that they had a limited investment in, they did it one way, doesn't mean they will do it exactly the same way. This game costa lot more to make, and without subs, they will need to have an income source greater than GW1, and I'm not saying it will get out of hand, but the temptation or need will be greater. Some of the things Bunk listed that are in the store already are on or near the line of imbalance, so it is fair for potential customers to be wary of this, until we know more.
Not really, this game is a different beast than GW1 was, they did what was needed for GW1 they will do what is needed for GW2. IF that means they need to add more incentive to pruchase from the cash shop, they will add more incentive to purchase from the cash shop. Bigger game, means more upkeep, more expense leads to new methods.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Source please? And descriptions of what items do. And descriptions of other things in the game that may do the same thing.
Thanks!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I'm thinking of things like this...
"Starting after the maintenance this Thursday (February 9, 2012), a new item will begin dropping as loot in the game. This item is called a Cardassian Lock Box."
For me it's not the idea of what's inside, it's the reminder of the cash-shop and it's intrusion into my experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its now up over a guru2
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/mike-o-brien-microtransactions-in-t32104p185.html
BTW, whats 4.8 euros in US dollars right now? Becasue thats how much 400 gems costs.
No they should not, imagine what would have happened if they expained this afte 10th of April.
But yes, they should come with a list of all the types of things they plan selling in the item shop beofre 10th of april. That would only be fair to everyone.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
6.50 would roughly be the conversion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Few thing stand out to me that are alarming on that list:
Mystic key - Seriously, we're gonna have lock boxes that cannot be opened without one of these? Seems like complete bullshit to me.
Magic found boost - Also incredibly lame for obvious reasons
Instant repair kit - You gotta be fucking kidding me. This out of all seems the most ridiculous
Perfect salvage kit - Sounds incredibly reminiscent of many f2p games that have this and if you don't use one ends up giving you shit the majority of the time
Megaphone - Why is this even needed? Is it an aesthetic item or are they going to pull that bullshit where you have to use a megaphone to talk cross zone or world?
12 loot bag - Better be feasible to get these in game outside of those that want to prep out from the word go.
Gotta say, I don't feel near as comfortable with their cash shop with this revelation as I did before. Some of these seem perfectly reasonable while others appear to be complete bullshit.
Hope they use the beta to rethink or revamp some of these.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have never made an assumption. Not once. You aren't hearing what I am saying. It is because there are no specifics that I am concerned. You however did make the same assumption you accuse me of. You cannot say with all certainty with one sentence "There won't be any advantage in the cash shop" and in the next tell me "We have no idea what will be in the cash shop" and expect me to take you seriously. It doesn't work both ways.
And No, ANet didn't say they wouldn't put advantages in the cash shop. they only said it's not their philosophy.....Big difference. Sounds like semantics, but those are the exact slick loopholes corporate PR people love to use. If it sounds like I am stretching it, I'll be happy to show you that exact same sentiment stated by a certain game director from another Sub Fee based game that introduced a fully fledged cash shop. And then see those words "We will not sell power" and "Our focus is on Social and cosmetic items" twisted and how it lead to a total P2W set up. Experience is a bitch of a teacher aint it? But see, you don't have it....yet. You haven't been burned this way....yet. That's why you still believe what you read on the Internet.
3 things? Before I go and list the 3 things in the cash shop, I'd like you to paste my previous quotes where I discussed 3 specific items you seem bent on accusing me of where I am assuming I know what's in the shop. Then I'll be happy to explain why I think those specific item I stated in previous posts are bad. And besides, Theoretically, it could only take one item to wreck a game. However, since you brought it up......Tell me why buying gold with real money is good for a game. Oh and by the way. All the other games that had their economies trashed didn't have that gold spawn from nothing either. Someone had to earn it....all of it. No game I know of was different....That's why its called gold FARMING. and not gold spawning. So the excuse that it's ok because some player already earned it, is a lame cover up and makes me even more suspiscious.
Okay Ive defended it this evening but I have to agree. Im no longer comfortable either. Some of these will only be profitable if the main game is lacking and you need to buy them for a boost!
I was going to buy expansions and the game itself. I dont buy cash shop crap.
Maybe since we can buy or earn gems in game this will all work itself out regardless but some of these items I really dont like that they're there. Its troubling.
The Resurrect Orb seems questionable as well but from the title of it hard to gauge what it will do overall in comparison to not using one so could be a worry as well. I gotta say least initially some of this shit seems ridiculous. We'll see how it plays out though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
And I'll bet there's more to follow.
I really really hope that the item shop items leaked aren`t for real or final. I´m fine with item skins, costumes and the like or minipets. But I am totally against boots, repair kits, resurrection kits or random item bags or keys.
To me the latter isn`t cosmetic anymore, and that´s not ok for me, even if you can argue it dosn`t give you a real advantage because items are wayne beyond the looks. I think that kind of stuff CAN break the game, it dosn`t have to, but it has the potential. Especially when you put stuff in with good intentions, players will find a way to exploit it in ways you never anticipated. And if there is a way to exploit it people will exploit it.
Umphf, yeah. Some RNG stuff too:
- Loot Bags (the hard core gambler can get 5 or 10 for a discount)
- Mystic key
- Dye Box
- Minis (?)
GambleWars2 anyone?
Makes sense because GW1 had this built in "quest for the best bonusses" as well.
edit: removed transmutation stones because the results from those aren't random.
edit: removed Salvage Kits because they yield raw mats.
My brand new bloggity blog.