Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
There is no way to avoid the simple fact that money will always buy an advantage in any sort of activity.
For games it used to be abstract, where better conneciton and equipment could provide an advantage. Though games were truley just a hobby and not really commercialized; considered a high revenue endavor.
With the realization and masses compaies, who's main goal is to make a profit, are going to exploit the players as much as possible to such ends. It would only make sense to offer a competative edge to those who pay money.
Perhaps in the future they may exist regulated games where there is an extreme focus on ensuring everyone cannot obtain an in game advatange through RMT. Until then, we just have to deal with it and use the power to not pay and play those games which go to far.
What game play affecting items are in EvE, WoW, and GW2? The only one I have a problem with is Diablo 3 simply because of how gear based of a game it will be. I would hardly consider cosmetic items in EvE game play changing in any way, unless you need a monocle to fly your ship.
But regardless, this would have happened in D3 or not. So I find this a welcome addition even if I dont plan to use it, I can easily make a few dollars here and there selling Items I dont want/need. I never sold anything for money in Diablo 2, but if this feature was there then I would have sold plenty of items but even better thing is now its being managed by a secure non 3rd party site, prices will drop because anyone will have the option to sell stuff for Real Money Securely and Safely and then either cash out or sit on that for a certain unique/hard to get item.
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok.
you choose to take 1 second to win it.
Does this person understand that they should go play LoL now?
PvE IS THE GAME. Its not what you do until "end game" where the real game starts... I bet this guy LOVES WoW.
games costs too much to make now, if stuff like this does not happen gaming will die sorry deal with it , or would people be happier with a massive sticker cost up front that no one would pay ?
As soon as the game they are putting all their hope into adopts RMT, then it's okay. Pretty much anything they do is okay. And even bombs like FF14, champions, and STO had their defense forces after release when it was obvious they were horrible games. Devs can do no wrong in their eyes until the games are ghost towns and no one cares anymore.
If we asked the Waterboy's mama, I am sure she would tell us it is da debil. Unlike her take on advanced college material, she would actually be right this time.
I really wish games were just that....games. If folks wanna bypass the rules in SPGs they are welcome to. When playing with others, I am of the opinion everyone should abide by the rules, and keep away from the gold dealers. So when a company tries to get in on that money, I gotta shake my head at them.
Dont get me wrong....I would rather see companies get money rather than farmers. That said, rather than making their own cash shop, I would prefer to see games be made in an ironclad way that they cant be affected by gold sellers without resorting to selling it themselves.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It happened when people realized it is just a game and that they would rather spend some money to save time. Not everyone makes minimum wage and eats ramen noodles all the time. Not everyone determines their self worth based on how well they do at a game. So those who wish to enjoy playing a game instead of having a second job farming in it, will spend a small amount of money to help them do that.
Do you realize it is just a game?
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
*Spits coffee over monitor
Lmao
Pretty much.
Depends on how you look at it - I can buy a better tennis racket, better shoes, purchase lessons.
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
So your saying there is no inherit skill in games it's all about the equipement you can buy?
I think there should be a universal law against RMT, since paying real life money for nothing but thin air is stupid and it shouldn't be lawful to sell air for profit.
the items you buy for real cash = NOTHING, thin air, nonexistant imagination.
I think there should be a universal law against RMT, since paying real life money for nothing but thin air is stupid and it shouldn't be lawful to sell air for profit.
the items you buy for real cash = NOTHING, thin air, nonexistant imagination.
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
So your saying there is no inherit skill in games it's all about the equipement you can buy?
that is what you tell me, how many games consider skill over gear out there?
I think there should be a universal law against RMT, since paying real life money for nothing but thin air is stupid and it shouldn't be lawful to sell air for profit.
the items you buy for real cash = NOTHING, thin air, nonexistant imagination.
As 'stupid' as you feel it is. It generates billions each year. Can you wrap your mind around that? It means a ton of players support and condone it with their wallets.
You may dislike, and that's perfectly fine. I hate 'extended warranties' but I won't call it illegal or stupid. There is still choice in not paying a dime into it.
Any argument for or against it is just personal opinion, but still can be discussed.
I think there should be a universal law against RMT, since paying real life money for nothing but thin air is stupid and it shouldn't be lawful to sell air for profit.
the items you buy for real cash = NOTHING, thin air, nonexistant imagination.
And shut down Wallstreet?
@fusion - they are paying for entertainment, just like a movie seen at the theatre, or an e-book. Just data.
And people actually do buy air - oxygen, nitrogen....
For myself my worst week in gaming ever was years ago in WoW, when I hit 40 and spent a week farming trash and resources to get the 90 gold or whatever it was for a mount. The most god awful, mind-numbing boring grind ever. I promised myself I would never do that again.
However I do/did like the rest of the game so quitting the game because I don't like one part of it is stupid. If a game ever requires me to do something like that again, I"m just buying it, so I can get on with the parts I find entertaining. After all I'm doing this for entertainment.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
How come the poll only stops at hate?
Any time you have real world money enter into a game, you [CENSORED] the game's economy
Games with Huge sinks can handle it better than those without. But even still, there are always the effects.
The ONLY way a RMT shop can be acceptable is if everything, and i mean everything in it gives absolubtely no advantage in game - pure fluff items or account services only. Things like titles, social armor/clothing, server transfers, name changes etc
This means selling things like xp boosts, speed boosts, or any item that can be earned in game is not acceptable since buying those items and therefore getting them instantly gives people with more $$ to spend an unfair advantage. Even something seemingly innocuous like a speed boost gives them an unfair advantage as they are able to travel around the world quicker and therefore level quicker.
Unfortunately, if they do this, no one will want the items in the cash shop, so it will be pointless.
This is why cash shops are a bad thing™
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Remember everyone that warned gamers years ago about RMT and that companies do make money from it. They are not standarizing it and it is being accepted by the community even though it was taboo only a few years ago.
Cash shop is the same way. They make more money with a CS/IM than P2P and only a few years ago almost no one would play a non-P2P game but look at it now.
These companies are just doing what we the community allow them to do so they can make great profits.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
Very simple: They sold out.
They realized that making a lot of money by squeezing the player base for every last penny they are willing to spend is worth more to them than the integrity, quality, and spirit of their game. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is deluded.
I don't think you would have ever had internet riots or mass people leaving the game.
I think at most there would have been a few dozen people raging on forums.
I honestly believe that most people playing MMO's then and now really don't give a flying fig what other people are doing in the game as long as it doesn't directly affect them.
Let the person go out and buy uber flaming sword of godliness as long as they did not use on another person (so useless in pve games) they didn't really care.
It was always only a minority that was truely bothered by it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
Very simple: They sold out.
They realized that making a lot of money by squeezing the player base for every last penny they are willing to spend is worth more to them than the integrity, quality, and spirit of their game. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is deluded.
one things tell me a lot was when I read in a game convention some devs was saying they sure wanted to make facebooks games, because they don't need to heard complains about they work, so in base all devs nowadays are a bunch of lazy bitc***, who want just make a profit, and we know pretty well when the making are rotten everything they made will be rotten, so most of use hope for a indie company make a huge debut and get a sucess bigger then wow, but by making new things who wouldn't kill they game or copy anything. but in the end or they fail in do so, or just people don't care about then.
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
So your saying there is no inherit skill in games it's all about the equipement you can buy?
that is what you tell me, how many games consider skill over gear out there?
Lets say there are three types of MMO: One that relies largely on skill, I don't think RMT has a very powerful effect on this type. Second its all or mostly about the gear but the RMT system simply provides a time vs money trade off meaning you can't get better gear either way. The third are those that are simply about money, that is you need to pay to get the best stuff.
So I think I get it, a traditional MMO generally falls into catigory 2 (maybe a F2P falls into 3) in these largely gear based games it traditionally is all about time spent. So, folks get pissed off if another player can trade money for time as this "cheats" the system. This has no relationship to actual sports at all. Maybe NASCAR if there were no limits on what you could do/spend on the car? Although there is still the skill of the driver. Pinewood derby then?
Comments
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
There is no way to avoid the simple fact that money will always buy an advantage in any sort of activity.
For games it used to be abstract, where better conneciton and equipment could provide an advantage. Though games were truley just a hobby and not really commercialized; considered a high revenue endavor.
With the realization and masses compaies, who's main goal is to make a profit, are going to exploit the players as much as possible to such ends. It would only make sense to offer a competative edge to those who pay money.
Perhaps in the future they may exist regulated games where there is an extreme focus on ensuring everyone cannot obtain an in game advatange through RMT. Until then, we just have to deal with it and use the power to not pay and play those games which go to far.
Its always been ok.
You give real money, you gain access.
And if you think about it almost every game is pay to win. You have to be in it to win it
But regardless, this would have happened in D3 or not. So I find this a welcome addition even if I dont plan to use it, I can easily make a few dollars here and there selling Items I dont want/need. I never sold anything for money in Diablo 2, but if this feature was there then I would have sold plenty of items but even better thing is now its being managed by a secure non 3rd party site, prices will drop because anyone will have the option to sell stuff for Real Money Securely and Safely and then either cash out or sit on that for a certain unique/hard to get item.
ok.
you choose to take 1 second to win it.
Let's internet
Does this person understand that they should go play LoL now?
PvE IS THE GAME. Its not what you do until "end game" where the real game starts... I bet this guy LOVES WoW.
games costs too much to make now, if stuff like this does not happen gaming will die sorry deal with it , or would people be happier with a massive sticker cost up front that no one would pay ?
I'll tell you when.
As soon as the game they are putting all their hope into adopts RMT, then it's okay. Pretty much anything they do is okay. And even bombs like FF14, champions, and STO had their defense forces after release when it was obvious they were horrible games. Devs can do no wrong in their eyes until the games are ghost towns and no one cares anymore.
If we asked the Waterboy's mama, I am sure she would tell us it is da debil. Unlike her take on advanced college material, she would actually be right this time.
I really wish games were just that....games. If folks wanna bypass the rules in SPGs they are welcome to. When playing with others, I am of the opinion everyone should abide by the rules, and keep away from the gold dealers. So when a company tries to get in on that money, I gotta shake my head at them.
Dont get me wrong....I would rather see companies get money rather than farmers. That said, rather than making their own cash shop, I would prefer to see games be made in an ironclad way that they cant be affected by gold sellers without resorting to selling it themselves.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Depends on how you look at it - I can buy a better tennis racket, better shoes, purchase lessons.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
So your saying there is no inherit skill in games it's all about the equipement you can buy?
I think there should be a universal law against RMT, since paying real life money for nothing but thin air is stupid and it shouldn't be lawful to sell air for profit.
the items you buy for real cash = NOTHING, thin air, nonexistant imagination.
And shut down Wallstreet?
that is what you tell me, how many games consider skill over gear out there?
As 'stupid' as you feel it is. It generates billions each year. Can you wrap your mind around that? It means a ton of players support and condone it with their wallets.
You may dislike, and that's perfectly fine. I hate 'extended warranties' but I won't call it illegal or stupid. There is still choice in not paying a dime into it.
Any argument for or against it is just personal opinion, but still can be discussed.
@fusion - they are paying for entertainment, just like a movie seen at the theatre, or an e-book. Just data.
And people actually do buy air - oxygen, nitrogen....
For myself my worst week in gaming ever was years ago in WoW, when I hit 40 and spent a week farming trash and resources to get the 90 gold or whatever it was for a mount. The most god awful, mind-numbing boring grind ever. I promised myself I would never do that again.
However I do/did like the rest of the game so quitting the game because I don't like one part of it is stupid. If a game ever requires me to do something like that again, I"m just buying it, so I can get on with the parts I find entertaining. After all I'm doing this for entertainment.
Im sure the extra bag slots will give you an upper hand....
How come the poll only stops at hate?
Any time you have real world money enter into a game, you [CENSORED] the game's economy
Games with Huge sinks can handle it better than those without. But even still, there are always the effects.
The ONLY way a RMT shop can be acceptable is if everything, and i mean everything in it gives absolubtely no advantage in game - pure fluff items or account services only. Things like titles, social armor/clothing, server transfers, name changes etc
This means selling things like xp boosts, speed boosts, or any item that can be earned in game is not acceptable since buying those items and therefore getting them instantly gives people with more $$ to spend an unfair advantage. Even something seemingly innocuous like a speed boost gives them an unfair advantage as they are able to travel around the world quicker and therefore level quicker.
Unfortunately, if they do this, no one will want the items in the cash shop, so it will be pointless.
This is why cash shops are a bad thing™
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Remember everyone that warned gamers years ago about RMT and that companies do make money from it. They are not standarizing it and it is being accepted by the community even though it was taboo only a few years ago.
Cash shop is the same way. They make more money with a CS/IM than P2P and only a few years ago almost no one would play a non-P2P game but look at it now.
These companies are just doing what we the community allow them to do so they can make great profits.
Very simple: They sold out.
They realized that making a lot of money by squeezing the player base for every last penny they are willing to spend is worth more to them than the integrity, quality, and spirit of their game. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is deluded.
I don't think you would have ever had internet riots or mass people leaving the game.
I think at most there would have been a few dozen people raging on forums.
I honestly believe that most people playing MMO's then and now really don't give a flying fig what other people are doing in the game as long as it doesn't directly affect them.
Let the person go out and buy uber flaming sword of godliness as long as they did not use on another person (so useless in pve games) they didn't really care.
It was always only a minority that was truely bothered by it.
one things tell me a lot was when I read in a game convention some devs was saying they sure wanted to make facebooks games, because they don't need to heard complains about they work, so in base all devs nowadays are a bunch of lazy bitc***, who want just make a profit, and we know pretty well when the making are rotten everything they made will be rotten, so most of use hope for a indie company make a huge debut and get a sucess bigger then wow, but by making new things who wouldn't kill they game or copy anything. but in the end or they fail in do so, or just people don't care about then.
Lets say there are three types of MMO: One that relies largely on skill, I don't think RMT has a very powerful effect on this type. Second its all or mostly about the gear but the RMT system simply provides a time vs money trade off meaning you can't get better gear either way. The third are those that are simply about money, that is you need to pay to get the best stuff.
So I think I get it, a traditional MMO generally falls into catigory 2 (maybe a F2P falls into 3) in these largely gear based games it traditionally is all about time spent. So, folks get pissed off if another player can trade money for time as this "cheats" the system. This has no relationship to actual sports at all. Maybe NASCAR if there were no limits on what you could do/spend on the car? Although there is still the skill of the driver. Pinewood derby then?