Thank god one my old school favorite MMOs is going to experience something of a revialval in a limited sort of way next month. (Can't name it...don't wish to violate TOS)
I can only hope that is successful.....Cuz if it is, I am so done with this new way.
It all boils down to the fact tha companies want to make money with their games.
There has always been a HUGE market for buying gold/items in MMO's and companies were getting none of the profit because all the transactions were through third part illegal sellers. It's virtually impossible to stop these illegal sellers so what should a company do?
Apparently the big companies feel that they must become the sellers themselves. This will allow them to make a profit, pretty much eliminate illegal selling (who would by gold from a shady site when they could get it officially from the company legally), and open the oppurtunity up to everyone (as before gold/item buying was only open to those willing to "break the law").
I'll admit I don't like it, but its the logical thing to do and it's the players fault for making them do this. Sadly these days most people would rather spend $10 to get those blue items then play the game for 5 hours and earn them. But as long as I can still compete with those who buy stuff I'll be happy.
This is wrong on every level.
Have you ever heard of free games before? Microtransactions?
The makers of Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic were making more money than a lot of pay to play games. Runes of Magic made almost 30 million dollars in profits for the company in 2010 and enough over the last 3 years that it funded the making of Tera...
Who the hell says that a company cannot make a game with normal loot drops and a ton and a half of micro transaction items? And who are you to say that the only people that buy items like that are those to lazy to do the way you do? Not everyone can play as long as you do and on top of that, who the hell can say the only way a game can be fun is if you put in 10 hours to get an item and it cant be, hey, spend $5 for that item and go do something else in game that you find more enjoyable...omg, options...they suck when its not one I want!
Wow. Did you even read my post? I never said anyone was lazy for paying for items, I just said that alot of people would rather do it and I think that it's a bit sad. I also even said I'm fine with it as long as I can compete with players who buy their itmes.
Also your response really had little to do with my post...if you read it you would have seen I was actually rationalizing developers decisions to add in gold/item shops, not putting them down.
I dislike it as soon as it can effect gameplay. Vanity, i honestly could care less. paying RL money to get pretty, sure. Paying RL money to get a end game item maxed out to the teeth that would take months to get otherwise, Oh hell no.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Even though I'm idealistically opposed to RMT I'm actually glad it's become accepted.
I played many games in the mid naughties where the hypocrisy was pungent. It was amazing how so many people, who 'never' bought gold somehow managed to farm the coin needed for top gear.
Thank god one my old school favorite MMOs is going to experience something of a revialval in a limited sort of way next month. (Can't name it...don't wish to violate TOS)
I can only hope that is successful.....Cuz if it is, I am so done with this new way.
Can we call it the mother of the anti-christ of MMORPGs?
The reason the cash shops and RMT are winning is because MMORPGs are no longer about the community, character formation, character growth, and experiencing the ride instead the prize at the end of the ride.
Aslong as people continue to base their MMORPG enjoyment on player versus player competition in which items and power give them an advantage, or base it on showing off their shinies, then Real Money Transactions will reign supreme.
MMORPG's used to be just graphical MUD's. And slowly they are turning more and more into first person shooters with levels and equipment.
Also, MMORPG's used to be a niche genre for just insiders. I remember how my next door neighbor Ryan got a copy of the graphical MUD Furcadia. He was given Furcadia on a floppy disk by a friend in his computer programing class back in 1996/1997. That is the type of people who played MMORPGs. The uber computer nerds who played computer games before the internet was popular, or when some families didn't even have computers.
Aslong as the genre is mainstream and corporate it will be plagued with RMT and pay2win garbage. Indie developers are the only ones who seem to be making games not for profit but because they are passionate about the game.
RMT's won't go away until people quit caring about the superficial aspects of current MMORPGs. The items, the arena rating, etc. We made this bed, and now we must lay in it.
The reason the cash shops and RMT are winning is because MMORPGs are no longer about the community, character formation, character growth, and experiencing the ride instead the prize at the end of the ride.
Aslong as people continue to base their MMORPG enjoyment on player versus player competition in which items and power give them an advantage, or base it on showing off their shinies, then Real Money Transactions will reign supreme.
How does that explain games like LOTRO going free to play with a cash shop - LOTRO is PvE. I think it is more about players wanting to casual play than PvP.
The reason the cash shops and RMT are winning is because MMORPGs are no longer about the community, character formation, character growth, and experiencing the ride instead the prize at the end of the ride.
Aslong as people continue to base their MMORPG enjoyment on player versus player competition in which items and power give them an advantage, or base it on showing off their shinies, then Real Money Transactions will reign supreme.
How does that explain games like LOTRO going free to play with a cash shop - LOTRO is PvE. I think it is more about players wanting to casual play than PvP.
Lord of the Rings Online is DLC, downloadable content (atleast thats what they call it for xbox/ps3). DLC is, you pay for content as you consume it. Thats far different then pay2win cash shops.
If your considering LOTR's DLC as Real-Money-Transactions, then you could consider all subscription games as RMT games. Since your paying real money for the month of content.
As far as I know, there are no big pay2win aspects to LOTRO.
I don't think LOTRO's payment type is bad, its just a "pay as you go" type plan, like some cell phones use, versus a monthly charge.
The thing I have beef with is the pay2win games where your character power is almost directly tied to you're money invested. The only reason I still play F2P pay2win cash shop games is because I have so much free time that I can get all the powerful stuff just by grinding instead of paying for it.
The game I'm playing right now, Drakensang Online, has their RMT in-game currency drop occasionally from mobs. So if I grind enough mobs, I can end up getting everything I would of had to pay for in the end.
Even though I'm idealistically opposed to RMT I'm actually glad it's become accepted.
I played many games in the mid naughties where the hypocrisy was pungent. It was amazing how so many people, who 'never' bought gold somehow managed to farm the coin needed for top gear.
That stereotype though is kind of wrong.
I know in EQ some of us actually did spend the time to farm money/items, or work buying/selling to make money.
I couldnt tell you how many hrs I spent farming geos in Crystal Caverns-Velious, or that little port zone with the pirates from Legacy of yakuza or whatever it was called expansion(after POP before LDoN). Hell the Tower in Velious you needed keys for was an awesome way to farm money. 5th floor wedding gave plat, plus tradeskill items that you could limit the weight encumberance with the proper bags.
Of course running a nec allowed me to farm money/gems/items like that. Most classes couldnt.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It's encouraging to see that more than 50% of voters view RMT in a negative light,even if legitimized by the developer.In a fact, more than 30% actually say they hate it.
So why are we letting legitimate forms of RMT become the norm? I am not about to suggest we boycott any games because that type of feedback is more often seen as a temper tantrum than an actual meaningful message.
What I ask those that are not okay with the current trend of ligitimized RMT is to become more active in denouncing those companies that try to implement such systems. We might not be able to force them to change, but we can sure as hell let them know we are not okay with it.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
It's encouraging to see that more than 50% of voters view RMT in a negative light,even if legitimized by the developer.In a fact, more than 30% actually say they hate it.
So why are we letting legitimate forms of RMT become the norm? I am not about to suggest we boycott any games because that type of feedback is more often seen as a temper tantrum than an actual meaningful message.
What I ask those that are not okay with the current trend of ligitimized RMT is to become more active in denouncing those companies that try to implement such systems. We might not be able to force them to change, but we can sure as hell let them know we are not okay with it.
Watch how fast I send a message to Trion if they ever think about it. Only WoW fans are allowed to be that gullable in my view. Hopefully GW2 rage harder then Eve fans did if NCSoft tries to force ArenaNET across that line.
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
I don't play games to make money, I have a job that allows me to make more money per hour than RMT ever could.
I play games to have fun and to feel accomplishment from gaining in-game benefits through in-game effort. Anything that allows others to obtain the same rewards that I earned without having to spend the same amount of time and effort undermines the very reason why I play these games in the first place.
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
I don't play games to make money, I have a job that allows me to make more money per hour than RMT ever could.
I play games to have fun and to feel accomplishment from gaining in-game benefits through in-game effort. Anything that allows others to obtain the same rewards that I earned without having to spend the same amount of time and effort undermines the very reason why I play these games in the first place.
I completely agree with you fundayz. Also, all that I can see coming out of the D3 auction house is a lot of botting.
The existence of this thread just makes me laugh at the state of this gaming genre. For years developers b*tched and moaned about gold sellers causing problems in their games and offering an uneven playing field / advantages. And for years players complained about them. And what has it all come down to in MMORPGs? Developers selling out to be the sellers themselves. It really just came down to wanting a cut of the action, that's all.
Laughable, just laughable. What a joke MMORPGs have become.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
EVE Online's RNT system is unique in that it allows players to earn gametime by buying it from players who can afford more than they can use. I have four EVE accounts, and that is a huge advantage for me, since I only have to pay for one account out of pocket. And the people using the CCP sanctioned RMT(PLEX for ISK) are not at any advantage over me. It doesn't even effect the "Game's integrity" as you put it. EVE is an EVIL game, and scamming, at least in game, is part of it's culture. The stupid and lame get weeded out, and the strong survive. Which means the game is full of a bunch of @holes, true, but that's what makes EVE so unique. If the RMT system CCP has in place effects the game's integrity for you, that is only because you aren't smart enough to profit from it.
Why is it okay that someone's real life advantage of being in college or highschool or living in their mom's basement gives them an advantage in game?
Funny how it's okay that someone real life time advantage is okay, but someone using their monetary advantage is not.
It became okay when mature adults were able to understand that they should let children be children and teenagers be teenagers. As adults, we can't hold on to the past forever and morph the games into a perversed form which we would never have accepted when we were younger.
If your responsabilties are making you so miserable that you feel that you have to be on even foot with young people who naturally have more free time, then perhaps you should consider changing your life.
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
I don't play games to make money, I have a job that allows me to make more money per hour than RMT ever could.
I play games to have fun and to feel accomplishment from gaining in-game benefits through in-game effort. Anything that allows others to obtain the same rewards that I earned without having to spend the same amount of time and effort undermines the very reason why I play these games in the first place.
Then don't play D3. It is not like Blizzard won't sell a million if you don't buy.
People have different preferences. I don't see the problem with a real money AH. I may or may not use it. Either way, D3 looks like a fun game.
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
I don't play games to make money, I have a job that allows me to make more money per hour than RMT ever could.
I play games to have fun and to feel accomplishment from gaining in-game benefits through in-game effort. Anything that allows others to obtain the same rewards that I earned without having to spend the same amount of time and effort undermines the very reason why I play these games in the first place.
Then don't play D3. It is not like Blizzard won't sell a million if you don't buy.
People have different preferences. I don't see the problem with a real money AH. I may or may not use it. Either way, D3 looks like a fun game.
Blizzard has a fear of piracy for what reason I have no earthly idea, and that will hurt them in the long run. Online required to play the game. Notch's point of view about piracy, and why Blizzard are the biggest babies on the planet that shouldn't even be worrying about piracy, not one bit. They are the scum of the earth, they have the fans that will pay for the game. Take another start up gaming company that no one knows about, now they have every right to fear piracy. I bet you 1 million dollars that the top developers of the original Diablo series pirated at least some form of media in their earlier years. Biggest gaming developer, biggest hypocrites. Decide if you want to grace your presence in their trash games, or don't. Other games will be glad to take their place to house your characters and fill up their worlds. Onward to ISP policing, coming to a neighborhood near you this summer!
The existence of this thread just makes me laugh at the state of this gaming genre. For years developers b*tched and moaned about gold sellers causing problems in their games and offering an uneven playing field / advantages. And for years players complained about them. And what has it all come down to in MMORPGs? Developers selling out to be the sellers themselves. It really just came down to wanting a cut of the action, that's all.
Laughable, just laughable. What a joke MMORPGs have become.
Originally posted by fenistil Originally posted by Warmaker The existence of this thread just makes me laugh at the state of this gaming genre. For years developers b*tched and moaned about gold sellers causing problems in their games and offering an uneven playing field / advantages. And for years players complained about them. And what has it all come down to in MMORPGs? Developers selling out to be the sellers themselves. It really just came down to wanting a cut of the action, that's all. Laughable, just laughable. What a joke MMORPGs have become.
The existence of this thread just makes me laugh at the state of this gaming genre. For years developers b*tched and moaned about gold sellers causing problems in their games and offering an uneven playing field / advantages. And for years players complained about them. And what has it all come down to in MMORPGs? Developers selling out to be the sellers themselves. It really just came down to wanting a cut of the action, that's all.
Laughable, just laughable. What a joke MMORPGs have become.
+1
sad but true
THIS x 1000.
This is an industry of greed. Too much DLC, Cash Shops and real money trading which has ruined my hobby. =(
Comments
This new generation business model is crap.
Thank god one my old school favorite MMOs is going to experience something of a revialval in a limited sort of way next month. (Can't name it...don't wish to violate TOS)
I can only hope that is successful.....Cuz if it is, I am so done with this new way.
Wow. Did you even read my post? I never said anyone was lazy for paying for items, I just said that alot of people would rather do it and I think that it's a bit sad. I also even said I'm fine with it as long as I can compete with players who buy their itmes.
Also your response really had little to do with my post...if you read it you would have seen I was actually rationalizing developers decisions to add in gold/item shops, not putting them down.
I dislike it as soon as it can effect gameplay. Vanity, i honestly could care less. paying RL money to get pretty, sure. Paying RL money to get a end game item maxed out to the teeth that would take months to get otherwise, Oh hell no.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Even though I'm idealistically opposed to RMT I'm actually glad it's become accepted.
I played many games in the mid naughties where the hypocrisy was pungent. It was amazing how so many people, who 'never' bought gold somehow managed to farm the coin needed for top gear.
Can we call it the mother of the anti-christ of MMORPGs?
I'm against RMT as well, however, if that's what it takes to create a superior game these days, then I'm all for it.
The reason the cash shops and RMT are winning is because MMORPGs are no longer about the community, character formation, character growth, and experiencing the ride instead the prize at the end of the ride.
Aslong as people continue to base their MMORPG enjoyment on player versus player competition in which items and power give them an advantage, or base it on showing off their shinies, then Real Money Transactions will reign supreme.
MMORPG's used to be just graphical MUD's. And slowly they are turning more and more into first person shooters with levels and equipment.
Also, MMORPG's used to be a niche genre for just insiders. I remember how my next door neighbor Ryan got a copy of the graphical MUD Furcadia. He was given Furcadia on a floppy disk by a friend in his computer programing class back in 1996/1997. That is the type of people who played MMORPGs. The uber computer nerds who played computer games before the internet was popular, or when some families didn't even have computers.
Aslong as the genre is mainstream and corporate it will be plagued with RMT and pay2win garbage. Indie developers are the only ones who seem to be making games not for profit but because they are passionate about the game.
RMT's won't go away until people quit caring about the superficial aspects of current MMORPGs. The items, the arena rating, etc. We made this bed, and now we must lay in it.
How does that explain games like LOTRO going free to play with a cash shop - LOTRO is PvE. I think it is more about players wanting to casual play than PvP.
Currently bored with MMO's.
No truer words.
One of life's lil hand grenades
Lord of the Rings Online is DLC, downloadable content (atleast thats what they call it for xbox/ps3). DLC is, you pay for content as you consume it. Thats far different then pay2win cash shops.
If your considering LOTR's DLC as Real-Money-Transactions, then you could consider all subscription games as RMT games. Since your paying real money for the month of content.
As far as I know, there are no big pay2win aspects to LOTRO.
I don't think LOTRO's payment type is bad, its just a "pay as you go" type plan, like some cell phones use, versus a monthly charge.
The thing I have beef with is the pay2win games where your character power is almost directly tied to you're money invested. The only reason I still play F2P pay2win cash shop games is because I have so much free time that I can get all the powerful stuff just by grinding instead of paying for it.
The game I'm playing right now, Drakensang Online, has their RMT in-game currency drop occasionally from mobs. So if I grind enough mobs, I can end up getting everything I would of had to pay for in the end.
RMT is not "okay", legalized or not.
But, its just one more thing on mmorpgs that is not "okay"......
That stereotype though is kind of wrong.
I know in EQ some of us actually did spend the time to farm money/items, or work buying/selling to make money.
I couldnt tell you how many hrs I spent farming geos in Crystal Caverns-Velious, or that little port zone with the pirates from Legacy of yakuza or whatever it was called expansion(after POP before LDoN). Hell the Tower in Velious you needed keys for was an awesome way to farm money. 5th floor wedding gave plat, plus tradeskill items that you could limit the weight encumberance with the proper bags.
Of course running a nec allowed me to farm money/gems/items like that. Most classes couldnt.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It's encouraging to see that more than 50% of voters view RMT in a negative light, even if legitimized by the developer. In a fact, more than 30% actually say they hate it.
So why are we letting legitimate forms of RMT become the norm? I am not about to suggest we boycott any games because that type of feedback is more often seen as a temper tantrum than an actual meaningful message.
What I ask those that are not okay with the current trend of ligitimized RMT is to become more active in denouncing those companies that try to implement such systems. We might not be able to force them to change, but we can sure as hell let them know we are not okay with it.
I dont get why are you putting D3 in the same heap? The auction house actually allows you to make real money there by investing a lot of time into the gameplay - it is a dream come true! Finally I can do it outside of Second Life... every MMO should have it from now on.
Watch how fast I send a message to Trion if they ever think about it. Only WoW fans are allowed to be that gullable in my view. Hopefully GW2 rage harder then Eve fans did if NCSoft tries to force ArenaNET across that line.
I don't play games to make money, I have a job that allows me to make more money per hour than RMT ever could.
I play games to have fun and to feel accomplishment from gaining in-game benefits through in-game effort. Anything that allows others to obtain the same rewards that I earned without having to spend the same amount of time and effort undermines the very reason why I play these games in the first place.
I completely agree with you fundayz. Also, all that I can see coming out of the D3 auction house is a lot of botting.
The existence of this thread just makes me laugh at the state of this gaming genre. For years developers b*tched and moaned about gold sellers causing problems in their games and offering an uneven playing field / advantages. And for years players complained about them. And what has it all come down to in MMORPGs? Developers selling out to be the sellers themselves. It really just came down to wanting a cut of the action, that's all.
Laughable, just laughable. What a joke MMORPGs have become.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
EVE Online's RNT system is unique in that it allows players to earn gametime by buying it from players who can afford more than they can use. I have four EVE accounts, and that is a huge advantage for me, since I only have to pay for one account out of pocket. And the people using the CCP sanctioned RMT(PLEX for ISK) are not at any advantage over me. It doesn't even effect the "Game's integrity" as you put it. EVE is an EVIL game, and scamming, at least in game, is part of it's culture. The stupid and lame get weeded out, and the strong survive. Which means the game is full of a bunch of @holes, true, but that's what makes EVE so unique. If the RMT system CCP has in place effects the game's integrity for you, that is only because you aren't smart enough to profit from it.
Anything new here? Hmmm... Nope. o/
It became okay when mature adults were able to understand that they should let children be children and teenagers be teenagers. As adults, we can't hold on to the past forever and morph the games into a perversed form which we would never have accepted when we were younger.
If your responsabilties are making you so miserable that you feel that you have to be on even foot with young people who naturally have more free time, then perhaps you should consider changing your life.
Then don't play D3. It is not like Blizzard won't sell a million if you don't buy.
People have different preferences. I don't see the problem with a real money AH. I may or may not use it. Either way, D3 looks like a fun game.
Blizzard has a fear of piracy for what reason I have no earthly idea, and that will hurt them in the long run. Online required to play the game. Notch's point of view about piracy, and why Blizzard are the biggest babies on the planet that shouldn't even be worrying about piracy, not one bit. They are the scum of the earth, they have the fans that will pay for the game. Take another start up gaming company that no one knows about, now they have every right to fear piracy. I bet you 1 million dollars that the top developers of the original Diablo series pirated at least some form of media in their earlier years. Biggest gaming developer, biggest hypocrites. Decide if you want to grace your presence in their trash games, or don't. Other games will be glad to take their place to house your characters and fill up their worlds. Onward to ISP policing, coming to a neighborhood near you this summer!
http://www.gamefront.com/gdc-2012-notch-piracy-is-used-as-an-excuse-to-ruin-the-internet/
+1
sad but true
THIS x 1000.
This is an industry of greed. Too much DLC, Cash Shops and real money trading which has ruined my hobby. =(