Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
As a player and avid fan of online gaming, I'd like to ask those calling for a game company to take in-game measures against a subscriber for their out of game actions to really really consider if that's a road you truly want online content providers to go down.
I'm not going to comment on the Mittani, CCP, CSM or any of the drama, but I really do want to bring up the precedent that the pitchfork and torch crowd is looking to set here and ask them to really make sure that realize the ramifications of what their asking for.
Sorry I don't think actions at a game sponsored fan event which is broadcast live into peoples homes is "out of game". Perhaps my opinion differs from yours, that's fine. I just find it reprehensible and if someone did such a thing at an office party concerning a co-worker while drunk I suspect the police would be on his door step pronto and at the very least he would be handed his walking papers by his boss or forced into alcohol rehabilitation of some sort or all of the above. Hiding behind an online image, blaming inhuman behaviour on beer is not grown up and it is not responsible. Worse, it is a horrible image for the company who sponsored the event.
As a player and avid fan of online gaming, I'd like to ask those calling for a game company to take in-game measures against a subscriber for their out of game actions to really really consider if that's a road you truly want online content providers to go down.
I'm not going to comment on the Mittani, CCP, CSM or any of the drama, but I really do want to bring up the precedent that the pitchfork and torch crowd is looking to set here and ask them to really make sure that realize the ramifications of what their asking for.
That's exactly why I said it should be handled player side. In times back in games like Ultima Online or Everquest you could easily become a bane to the community and basically blacklisted in their minds. Now this didn't actually have an impact out of game but it allowed a sort of "justice" system in game for things to be settled by players.
I don't think I want CCP to step in, I don't think CCP wants to either. It shouldn't HAVE to be the first option. The greatest thing that could be done to resolved the issue will take for ONE person to make the right move and that's the Mintanni. If the Mintanni cared about the state of the game beyond his hyped online persona granted to him by the community he would know its time.
A premature exit I'm sure for the fact that he has presented so much information to CCP about what players have wanted but honestly, really.. People.. Someone esle could do the very same thing.. Anyone of us if we applied ourselves the right way, so it's not the end of EVE to see him step down from CSM..
He doesn't need to quit or exile himself from game. Resign and continue on with his enjoyment of the universe. The community will forgive you in time, but you need to show that you deserve to be forgiven instead of trying to skirt by on your repuatation. (Which isn't the best anyhow)
EDIT: IF he hadn't said himself that he was going to resign then this wouldn't be hanging so much for him to leave.. Be a man of his words.. As funny as that seems I know.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
No way! Not buyin it!
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
The chairman of the EVE Online Council of Stellar Management has announced his intention to resign from his position as a result of an event last week in which a suicidal player was mocked during FanFest. The panel discussion was billed as "unfiltered" but, according to Gianturco, his actions were unacceptable.
According to a post on the EVE forums, Gianturco indicated that he was over intoxicated and didn't realize what he had said though he also qualified that this was not an excuse for his behavior.
I feel absolutely ashamed of my behavior at the Alliance Panel. It's one thing to play a villain in an online roleplaying game - when I post on these forums or on twitter, I usually do so as 'The Mittani', and do my level best to convince everyone that I'm an unrepentant space villain, as that kind of facade provides an in-game advantage to me and my alliance. But I am not that character in real life, as anyone who has met me can attest. I went way, way, /way/ past the line on Thursday night by mocking the Mackinaw miner at a real-life event. I, as a person, am not the entity that I play in EVE; I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist, and I certainly don't want people to kill themselves in real life over an internet spaceship game, no matter what I may say or do within the game itself. CCP may say 'EVE is Real', but EVE is not real - and the line between the game and reality should not be overstepped.
As yet, Gianturco has not completed his resignation though he has indicated that he will do so via his Mittani Twitter account. We'll keep you posted as the story develops.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
No way! Not buyin it!
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
Or maybe Alex Gianturco should in EvE lingo HTFU and just do the deed.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
No way! Not buyin it!
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
Ahhh...
OK, you made a really good point there. One I hadn't considered before.
When I look at it from your perspective, I can see this whole event in a new light.
It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for your insight on this.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
Let's go ahead and cut our hours of pointless argument and debate on that one: you make up your own mind.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
See, hyperbole does not bolster your argument in this case. That is one very extreme example and even then, the consequences are actually quite different depending on whether or not a shot is actually fired or not. (though both come with penalities)
And here is a true, if disturbing throught, I don't think it's actually illegal in most places to support or even encourage people to kill themselves.
Immoral, yes, outrageous, to be sure, but actually illegal, I don't think so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
Let's go ahead and cut our hours of pointless argument and debate on that one: you make up your own mind.
Originally posted by korvass
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
Ahh, debate, the cut and thrust of intellectual giants.
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
See, hyperbole does not bolster your argument in this case. That is one very extreme example and even then, the consequences are actually quite different depending on whether or not a shot is actually fired or not. (though both come with penalities)
And here is a true, if disturbing throught, I don't think it's actually illegal in most places to support or even encourage people to kill themselves.
Immoral, yes, outrageous, to be sure, but actually illegal, I don't think so.
I'm shocked and outraged!....that this topic is still being discussed despite the words being said not changing much.
Reading this for a few days, here's what I've gotten out of this: Someone who thrives on attention (and is well known for such) did something to get attention and subsequently appologized since it mostly turned out to be negative attention. The 'victim' didn't seem to really care when asked about it and, by all accounts, is a mentally sound and living person at this time.
So we're supposed to be super upset over the potential that something bad could have happened? People do stupid things day in and day out that have potentially bad results. Some of these things are more visible then others. Ultimately, if the player base is outraged, they can vote him out next time around assuming CCP's internal investigation doesn't resolve the issue sooner or the player resigns if he so chooses.
I suppose it beats the NeX store drama....
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Yeah, bunch of drama over an online game.. Do some of you even realise just how incredibly unimportant all this is compared to.. oh I dunno, forgetting to tie your shoelace IRL?
You say one dumb thing, act like a tool, and seconds later the rabid internet police is demanding you step down!
Get over it already. Nobody died. Africans are still starving.
People do dumb shit sometimes...
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
See, hyperbole does not bolster your argument in this case. That is one very extreme example and even then, the consequences are actually quite different depending on whether or not a shot is actually fired or not. (though both come with penalities)
And here is a true, if disturbing throught, I don't think it's actually illegal in most places to support or even encourage people to kill themselves.
Immoral, yes, outrageous, to be sure, but actually illegal, I don't think so.
That is where you are wrong though. The whole cyber bullying laws. If you tell me to kill myself and I do my family can sue you and in some states here in the US they could charger you with Facilitating if there is a direct link to your statements and my suicide. Because now Cyber Bullying and in some places regular harassment is the same as providing someone the means of their suicide.
I'm shocked and outraged!....that this topic is still being discussed despite the words being said not changing much.
Reading this for a few days, here's what I've gotten out of this: Someone who thrives on attention (and is well known for such) did something to get attention and subsequently appologized since it mostly turned out to be negative attention. The 'victim' didn't seem to really care when asked about it and, by all accounts, is a mentally sound and living person at this time.
So we're supposed to be super upset over the potential that something bad could have happened? People do stupid things day in and day out that have potentially bad results. Some of these things are more visible then others. Ultimately, if the player base is outraged, they can vote him out next time around assuming CCP's internal investigation doesn't resolve the issue sooner or the player resigns if he so chooses.
I suppose it beats the NeX store drama....
That's an excellent point. It's up to him to look at how his actions DID or DID NOT affect the guy. The dude could very well just be trying to act cool about it just so he doesn't get reamed worst who knows really.
I agree with the potential damage parts of your post and it does hold good points. My thing is though in a case like this, where he was out in a public forum that at the time was a representation of EVE online and it's community. He as the CSM carriers that burden autmatically with the position..
Am I right or wrong there?
What players may do does not represent him or his opinions in game, but what HE does as CSM does reflect EVE's community. That's where the argument of his potential impact comes in. He decided to take the steps to point out this guy in his presentation. He then got intoxicated and that only exasterbated the situation even more when he went live with it.
Bad decision indeed, something that he needs to be removed from the game for? That's up for debate on some other stuff, I personally do not feel it needs to go that far or that the guy should be "crucified" because of this. But as a player in game and seeing the effect it has had on others in the community the playerbase he is supposed to represent.
Hmph.. it's on him..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
After reading the quoted post and then the reponse someones going to tell me that he didn't figure out what he did? That's even if he actually blacked-out.
Look at the dates between that and his apology. The apology was definitely CCP forced.
How does this turn of events effect SOE and CCP relations?
Will SOE tolerate the Eve community as it is? It's bound to carry over into Dust.
If a no-name person had done the same thing would they have been dealt with in the same way that CCP is dealing with Alex? Or would they have been flat out banned for putting CCP in a bad position?
Will the actions of CCP if this isn't handled correctly come back to haunt them in the future? I know that is are very big "if" but public opinion is changing on this subject. You read about more and more people being held accountable for their online actions as time goes on. I think he dodged and bullet and should be thankful that this guy wasn't as unstable as the eve-mail suggests. Or at least he's hiding it.
Alex stepped in the doodoo. Act like a jerk in the spotlight, then deal with the consequences imo.
Its funny how he claims it was all a drunken mistake,but brought a slideshow...
He should be banned from EVE. He used their stage to publicly bully another player into commiting suicide. Most of the replies i see are "well he apologized, good enough for me". How about the guy who got bullied, is it good enough for him?
He should as they say in politics "take a break" from his official duties, dont care jack if he play on ot not but until this have blown over they should have a interim filling his position.
But we should also remember that two wrong does not make one right and it is pretty ironic that so many people that think his way of acting gives them the right to behave the very same way, if not worse.
It shouldn't need a pitchfork and torch crowd if CCP or Alexander Gianturco had done the right thing in a timely manner.
It's called due process. CCP takes these things quite seriously.
Also it means that:
a) They dont talk about it, while they investigate.
b) They dont act rash to just please the crowd.
Hate them all you want, but I for one respect that they handle these things quietly and privately until they have reached a result.
These things take time. If they have not reached a result in a few weeks then we can discuss the timely manner part.
As for the Mittani, he can resign now with honor or chance it and see if CCP will force him out once they get to the bottom of this.
CCP is, as usual, licking their finger and sticking it up in the air to check the direction of the wind (and perhaps trying to figure out how they can make some money from this thing in the process).
Gianturco did this in the presence of CCP officials and a room full of witnesses. There is a video recording of the incident. He admits to doing it.
I dare say people have been banned from games before with far less evidence, due process, or weeks worth of investigation and deliberation.
CCP's do-nothing attitude is evidence that they condone his behavior.
I agree with the potential damage parts of your post and it does hold good points. My thing is though in a case like this, where he was out in a public forum that at the time was a representation of EVE online and it's community. He as the CSM carriers that burden autmatically with the position..
Am I right or wrong there?
What players may do does not represent him or his opinions in game, but what HE does as CSM does reflect EVE's community. That's where the argument of his potential impact comes in. He decided to take the steps to point out this guy in his presentation. He then got intoxicated and that only exasterbated the situation even more when he went live with it.
Bad decision indeed, something that he needs to be removed from the game for? That's up for debate on some other stuff, I personally do not feel it needs to go that far or that the guy should be "crucified" because of this. But as a player in game and seeing the effect it has had on others in the community the playerbase he is supposed to represent.
Hmph.. it's on him..
Alright, since you gave a serious response, I'll be a bit more serious in my reply:
Personally, I don't consider it a "public forum". It was an event that was accessible to the public as a biproduct of a service to fans of the company/game for sure. But really, people aren't going to accidently end up watching the fanfest while surfing channels. Just my opinion. I can see others position on it, but that is likely one distinction that explains my perspective.
Now, as you say, he represents the players in some capactiy. As such, if the players don't like what he is portraying, they have the ability to remove him during the next elections (assuming other circumstances don't remove him).
Now, the bad decision and whether it should remove him from game: CCP is looking into it. Once/If they announce the results people can rage/praise as they see fit. In the meantime, if people are outraged, fleet up and go get him. The playerbase has every ability to express themselves in game if there are enough likeminded individuals. Of course, that would come across as me encouraging the griefing of a player in a public forum wouldn't it?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Its funny how he claims it was all a drunken mistake,but brought a slideshow...
He should be banned from EVE. He used their stage to publicly bully another player into commiting suicide. Most of the replies i see are "well he apologized, good enough for me". How about the guy who got bullied, is it good enough for him?
Let's keep it clear. He didn't harass the guy into commiting suicide. The guy did not do anything to himself that we know of. Also he himself wasn't calling the guy out, but was trying to get others to harass the guy about it.
Kinda slick move to be real.. :P
BUT...
It could be said the most imporant person is the one that was to be effected. Kind of is he pressing charges thing right, but some things like Domestic abuse calls the cops HAVE to take someone to jail to difuse the situation. Even if both parties are not pressing charges against the other..
It's kind of a safety thing I guess, to insure that nothing comes of it. They don't leave and then they flip out on each other again.. and catch the blame right away..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Hmm, if I was suicidal and someone pushed me ti kill myself I don't think I would care that much, most likely because I would be dead. That being said, I'm sure he's not sincere so it's up to CCP to decided if they want a person like that as a chairman.
Never thought EVE was particular about morals, one way of the other.
Comments
Redemption requires the taking of responsibility for ones actions, the long it takes the less sincere it looks.The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
No way! Not buyin it!
Sorry I don't think actions at a game sponsored fan event which is broadcast live into peoples homes is "out of game". Perhaps my opinion differs from yours, that's fine. I just find it reprehensible and if someone did such a thing at an office party concerning a co-worker while drunk I suspect the police would be on his door step pronto and at the very least he would be handed his walking papers by his boss or forced into alcohol rehabilitation of some sort or all of the above. Hiding behind an online image, blaming inhuman behaviour on beer is not grown up and it is not responsible. Worse, it is a horrible image for the company who sponsored the event.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
That's exactly why I said it should be handled player side. In times back in games like Ultima Online or Everquest you could easily become a bane to the community and basically blacklisted in their minds. Now this didn't actually have an impact out of game but it allowed a sort of "justice" system in game for things to be settled by players.
I don't think I want CCP to step in, I don't think CCP wants to either. It shouldn't HAVE to be the first option. The greatest thing that could be done to resolved the issue will take for ONE person to make the right move and that's the Mintanni. If the Mintanni cared about the state of the game beyond his hyped online persona granted to him by the community he would know its time.
A premature exit I'm sure for the fact that he has presented so much information to CCP about what players have wanted but honestly, really.. People.. Someone esle could do the very same thing.. Anyone of us if we applied ourselves the right way, so it's not the end of EVE to see him step down from CSM..
He doesn't need to quit or exile himself from game. Resign and continue on with his enjoyment of the universe. The community will forgive you in time, but you need to show that you deserve to be forgiven instead of trying to skirt by on your repuatation. (Which isn't the best anyhow)
EDIT: IF he hadn't said himself that he was going to resign then this wouldn't be hanging so much for him to leave.. Be a man of his words.. As funny as that seems I know.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
it's a sad day when political correctness infects the goons and they start sounding like politicians.
It's called due process. CCP takes these things quite seriously.
Also it means that:
a) They dont talk about it, while they investigate.
b) They dont act rash to just please the crowd.
Hate them all you want, but I for one respect that they handle these things quietly and privately until they have reached a result.
These things take time. If they have not reached a result in a few weeks then we can discuss the timely manner part.
As for the Mittani, he can resign now with honor or chance it and see if CCP will force him out once they get to the bottom of this.
The drama is not just over an online game.
it just so happens that this all started because of an online game, but the drama has most certainly crossed over into real life because someone used a highly public forum to publically humiliate someone and to call for others to harrass.
And this drunken mistake excuse is crap. Garbage!
He went there prepared to do this!
Someone like him get's how many ingame hatemails and tells each day? And in a drunken stupor, at a public event, he gets up on stage and just off the top of his head happens to recall one out of hundreds? and all the details at that?
No way! Not buyin it!
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
Or maybe Alex Gianturco should in EvE lingo HTFU and just do the deed.So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
Ahhh...
OK, you made a really good point there. One I hadn't considered before.
When I look at it from your perspective, I can see this whole event in a new light.
It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for your insight on this.
Let's go ahead and cut our hours of pointless argument and debate on that one: you make up your own mind.
If you're being sincere, then I can't claim credit. That gem of wisdom belongs to the writers of Family Guy.
If not, well, we both know that sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet.
See, hyperbole does not bolster your argument in this case. That is one very extreme example and even then, the consequences are actually quite different depending on whether or not a shot is actually fired or not. (though both come with penalities)
And here is a true, if disturbing throught, I don't think it's actually illegal in most places to support or even encourage people to kill themselves.
Immoral, yes, outrageous, to be sure, but actually illegal, I don't think so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
Let's go ahead and cut our hours of pointless argument and debate on that one: you make up your own mind.
Brian: "You know what, Stewie. If you don't like it, go and complain on the internet."
Ahh, debate, the cut and thrust of intellectual giants.So if I point a gun and pull the trigger it is alright as long as the bullet does not fire.
See, hyperbole does not bolster your argument in this case. That is one very extreme example and even then, the consequences are actually quite different depending on whether or not a shot is actually fired or not. (though both come with penalities)
And here is a true, if disturbing throught, I don't think it's actually illegal in most places to support or even encourage people to kill themselves.
Immoral, yes, outrageous, to be sure, but actually illegal, I don't think so.
And worthy of remaining as public figure?I'm shocked and outraged!....that this topic is still being discussed despite the words being said not changing much.
Reading this for a few days, here's what I've gotten out of this: Someone who thrives on attention (and is well known for such) did something to get attention and subsequently appologized since it mostly turned out to be negative attention. The 'victim' didn't seem to really care when asked about it and, by all accounts, is a mentally sound and living person at this time.
So we're supposed to be super upset over the potential that something bad could have happened? People do stupid things day in and day out that have potentially bad results. Some of these things are more visible then others. Ultimately, if the player base is outraged, they can vote him out next time around assuming CCP's internal investigation doesn't resolve the issue sooner or the player resigns if he so chooses.
I suppose it beats the NeX store drama....
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
That is where you are wrong though. The whole cyber bullying laws. If you tell me to kill myself and I do my family can sue you and in some states here in the US they could charger you with Facilitating if there is a direct link to your statements and my suicide. Because now Cyber Bullying and in some places regular harassment is the same as providing someone the means of their suicide.
That's an excellent point. It's up to him to look at how his actions DID or DID NOT affect the guy. The dude could very well just be trying to act cool about it just so he doesn't get reamed worst who knows really.
I agree with the potential damage parts of your post and it does hold good points. My thing is though in a case like this, where he was out in a public forum that at the time was a representation of EVE online and it's community. He as the CSM carriers that burden autmatically with the position..
Am I right or wrong there?
What players may do does not represent him or his opinions in game, but what HE does as CSM does reflect EVE's community. That's where the argument of his potential impact comes in. He decided to take the steps to point out this guy in his presentation. He then got intoxicated and that only exasterbated the situation even more when he went live with it.
Bad decision indeed, something that he needs to be removed from the game for? That's up for debate on some other stuff, I personally do not feel it needs to go that far or that the guy should be "crucified" because of this. But as a player in game and seeing the effect it has had on others in the community the playerbase he is supposed to represent.
Hmph.. it's on him..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I don't buy the apology for a minute.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=997031#post997031
After reading the quoted post and then the reponse someones going to tell me that he didn't figure out what he did? That's even if he actually blacked-out.
Look at the dates between that and his apology. The apology was definitely CCP forced.
How does this turn of events effect SOE and CCP relations?
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/news/cyber.asp?keycode=2220
Will SOE tolerate the Eve community as it is? It's bound to carry over into Dust.
If a no-name person had done the same thing would they have been dealt with in the same way that CCP is dealing with Alex? Or would they have been flat out banned for putting CCP in a bad position?
Will the actions of CCP if this isn't handled correctly come back to haunt them in the future? I know that is are very big "if" but public opinion is changing on this subject. You read about more and more people being held accountable for their online actions as time goes on. I think he dodged and bullet and should be thankful that this guy wasn't as unstable as the eve-mail suggests. Or at least he's hiding it.
Alex stepped in the doodoo. Act like a jerk in the spotlight, then deal with the consequences imo.
Its funny how he claims it was all a drunken mistake,but brought a slideshow...
He should be banned from EVE. He used their stage to publicly bully another player into commiting suicide. Most of the replies i see are "well he apologized, good enough for me". How about the guy who got bullied, is it good enough for him?
He should as they say in politics "take a break" from his official duties, dont care jack if he play on ot not but until this have blown over they should have a interim filling his position.
But we should also remember that two wrong does not make one right and it is pretty ironic that so many people that think his way of acting gives them the right to behave the very same way, if not worse.
This have been a good conversation
CCP is, as usual, licking their finger and sticking it up in the air to check the direction of the wind (and perhaps trying to figure out how they can make some money from this thing in the process).
Gianturco did this in the presence of CCP officials and a room full of witnesses. There is a video recording of the incident. He admits to doing it.
I dare say people have been banned from games before with far less evidence, due process, or weeks worth of investigation and deliberation.
CCP's do-nothing attitude is evidence that they condone his behavior.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Alright, since you gave a serious response, I'll be a bit more serious in my reply:
Personally, I don't consider it a "public forum". It was an event that was accessible to the public as a biproduct of a service to fans of the company/game for sure. But really, people aren't going to accidently end up watching the fanfest while surfing channels. Just my opinion. I can see others position on it, but that is likely one distinction that explains my perspective.
Now, as you say, he represents the players in some capactiy. As such, if the players don't like what he is portraying, they have the ability to remove him during the next elections (assuming other circumstances don't remove him).
Now, the bad decision and whether it should remove him from game: CCP is looking into it. Once/If they announce the results people can rage/praise as they see fit. In the meantime, if people are outraged, fleet up and go get him. The playerbase has every ability to express themselves in game if there are enough likeminded individuals. Of course, that would come across as me encouraging the griefing of a player in a public forum wouldn't it?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Let's keep it clear. He didn't harass the guy into commiting suicide. The guy did not do anything to himself that we know of. Also he himself wasn't calling the guy out, but was trying to get others to harass the guy about it.
Kinda slick move to be real.. :P
BUT...
It could be said the most imporant person is the one that was to be effected. Kind of is he pressing charges thing right, but some things like Domestic abuse calls the cops HAVE to take someone to jail to difuse the situation. Even if both parties are not pressing charges against the other..
It's kind of a safety thing I guess, to insure that nothing comes of it. They don't leave and then they flip out on each other again.. and catch the blame right away..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Hmm, if I was suicidal and someone pushed me ti kill myself I don't think I would care that much, most likely because I would be dead. That being said, I'm sure he's not sincere so it's up to CCP to decided if they want a person like that as a chairman.
Never thought EVE was particular about morals, one way of the other.