The concept of SWTOR and GW2 city ambiance is very similar. (we can pull hairs all day on the differences). They both have roaming and static NPCs that utilize voice acting for flavor. The difference between the two is their aesthetics and that's all opinion based.
Edit: And I much prefer GW2 over SWTOR. It is my opinion that GW2 excels in city atmosphere.
The world in SWTOR was about as dry as it possibly could be. Not just NPCs standing around and talking (all five of them), but the atmosphere as a whole was so dead and sterile that I was never once immersed in the gameplay. The cities and outposts are the worst.
It's not just about NPC walking and talking. It's the total package. The reason the boring NPCs stood out in TOR was because the rest of the game world was even worse, IMO.
/FACEPALM
I agree. As I said only their CONCEPT was similiar. It is also my opinion that SWTOR's city life is void of life and immersion and GW2 executes the concept better.
I swear...people like to really look for arguement triggers even where none can be found.
I wasn't arguing. I was stating my opinion on the matter. The fact that you were quoted had nothing to do with an argument.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I was trying to talk to a specfic feature of that ambience (NPC movement), and toward complaints that NPCs stand there forever, never moving. Not about the overall effect of that ambience.
Then you are oversimplifying the issue quite a bit.
That's not what I am doing, I am asking a question in reference to things that were said, you guys are ignoring that question and are instead talking about "everything else".
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, yes, and yes...but it is a fact that their concepts are similiar. As I said, in my opinion (though it is also my opinion that it should be just a simple fact) GW2 executes the concept better...much better...so very much better.
From the footage i've seen and the impressions gathered so far, i agree 100%. Oh and btw, i still stand by my PM even more so now
Well i certainly felt the city was more alive in GW2 than SWTOR, but your taking the worst example SWTOR and comparing it to a unreleased example GW2.
Regardless SWTOR never had random discussions happening while you walked by NPCs, SWTOR does not have nearly the amount of mobile NPCs as GW2, you also have to remember we are only able to compare this with a few videos vs. actual game play.
To really get a serious view of cities and there life/or lack of life i think someone would need to find a large area with a large NPC population and just sit in one spot for 2-3 minutes, some of those mobile NPCs might be on a timed event.
Anyhow i better representation was MikeB's (gamebreaker) city previews, he even points out the ambient NPC interactions.
...I guess it was just in my head then. I was, afterall, suffering from lack of entertainment after my first 6 hours of play-through.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I wasn't arguing. I was stating my opinion on the matter. The fact that you were quoted had nothing to do with an argument.
Well, perhaps it was an assumption on my part. It's not everyday you run into somone on a forum who quotes you with a response that seems to superficially counter your statements but is, in fact, not the case. Apologies.
After watching the city preview videos, I have to question something that was said a lot during the TOR WARS, many tried comparing GW2 to TOR cities saying there were too many static bystanders just standing around in TOR, and GW2 would be different. I'm not seeing it, looks roughly the same, a handful of moving NPCs with most just standing around. Is there something I am missing?
(Lets discuss the question and not discuss me please)..
I was trying to talk to a specfic feature of that ambience (NPC movement), and toward complaints that NPCs stand there forever, never moving. Not about the overall effect of that ambience.
Then you are oversimplifying the issue quite a bit.
That's not what I am doing, I am asking a question in reference to things that were said, you guys are ignoring that question and are instead talking about "everything else".
You single out one issue and intentionally ignore many others that were just as relevant to the discussion at the time. You picked out one thing NPCs in GW2 have in common with the filler-NPCs in SWTOR, but ignore the things they do different, even though those are highly relevant for the discussion of ambiance that this is about.
You want us to concede that some NPCs in GW2 don't move, just like in SWTOR, so that you can point at the fans and yell "liars". So if it makes you happy, yes, there are in fact NPCs in GW2 that just stand there and don't move.
Agreed. This makes SWTOR look like a plastic diorama toy.
What SWTOR felt like to me (only with fewer players):
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
After watching the city preview videos, I have to question something that was said a lot during the TOR WARS, many tried comparing GW2 to TOR cities saying there were too many static bystanders just standing around in TOR, and GW2 would be different. I'm not seeing it, looks roughly the same, a handful of moving NPCs with most just standing around. Is there something I am missing? (Lets discuss the question and not discuss me please)..
In GW2 there are children running around. I don't think that I saw a child in any of the SWTOR cities. All of the cities in GW2 (from what I could see in the beta videos) seem MUCH larger than any of the SWTOR cities. I liked SWTOR but the cities seemed like the rest of the worlds - like a stage. GW2 cities feel like they are lived in, not part of the scenery. In SWTOR I was in a story - in GW2 I will feel that I am in a world - and that is the feeling that I want to have.
You're talking about ambience, that's not the subject I brought up, as I agree in this sense GW2 is a tad different (seemingly). I'm referring to the simple fact that there were a lot of people saying that GW2 woukld not have these NPC's just standing around statically like I'm seeing. TOR didn't have little kids running around, it did have kids in it though. I'm referring to the number of moving NPC's compared to the amount of stationary, which I really see no difference.
It was either misinformation, trolling, or people speaking before they actually knew.
Wow, your really reaching here, picking one tiny aspect of a claim made by people here, then bait people into this ridiculous conversation.
The consensus in this, the GW2 cities are better, many people have said that. But that wasnt good enough for you, picking one piece, trying to argue that GW2 has more NPCs standing around.
Lets say we actually did a count, and found GW2 had more NPCs standing around than TOR. So what?
The players have spoken, they like GW2 cities better, get it?
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
lol, can't deny what was shown... but you seem to try anyways. In any case what you were told was that in GW2 it would not be as static as in TOR. That never meant that every NPC in the game would be constantly moving... why you took it that way is beyond me.
In GW2 there are children running around. I don't think that I saw a child in any of the SWTOR cities. All of the cities in GW2 (from what I could see in the beta videos) seem MUCH larger than any of the SWTOR cities. I liked SWTOR but the cities seemed like the rest of the worlds - like a stage. GW2 cities feel like they are lived in, not part of the scenery. In SWTOR I was in a story - in GW2 I will feel that I am in a world - and that is the feeling that I want to have.
You're talking about ambience, that's not the subject I brought up, as I agree in this sense GW2 is a tad different (seemingly). I'm referring to the simple fact that there were a lot of people saying that GW2 woukld not have these NPC's just standing around statically like I'm seeing. TOR didn't have little kids running around, it did have kids in it though. I'm referring to the number of moving NPC's compared to the amount of stationary, which I really see no difference.
It was either misinformation, trolling, or people speaking before they actually knew.
Wow, your really reaching here, picking one tiny aspect of a claim made by people here, then bait people into this ridiculous conversation.
The consensus in this, the GW2 cities are better, many people have said that. But that wasnt good enough for you, picking one piece, trying to argue that GW2 has more NPCs standing around.
Lets say we actually did a count, and found GW2 had more NPCs standing around than TOR. So what?
The players have spoken, they like GW2 cities better, get it?
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
lol, can't deny what was shown... but you seem to try anyways. In any case what you were told was that in GW2 it would not be as static as in TOR. That never meant that every NPC in the game would be constantly moving... why you took it that way is beyond me.
What did I deny that was shown? It was the same thing that was shown in the videos I saw that sparked the thought in the first place.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is going to have to be one of those things that I will have to try. I played SWTOR, and yeah, those cities seemed off. Need to actually get into GW2 before can make that call.
Please, bring back this topic after BWE happen so we can talk about it with first hand exprience. Only way to know if cities "feel" right or not.
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
lol, can't deny what was shown... but you seem to try anyways. In any case what you were told was that in GW2 it would not be as static as in TOR. That never meant that every NPC in the game would be constantly moving... why you took it that way is beyond me.
I'm still waiting for the OP to arrive at a coherent point. I'm not sure if he was under the impression that every NPC in the game was going to be moving around the game world at all times, or if he's just a hater try-hard.
I don't remember ever reading, hearing or seeing anything that tried to say every single creature and npc in the game would be walking around. Frankly, that would be *LESS* realistic, since people do, um, stand once in a while. So what exactly is the point? The video clearly shows that city in GW2 has more NPC movement and activity than SWTOR did over the entire sum total of game map. That's not even getting into the (night and day) difference in sounds and general ambiance/atmosphere.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
You single out one issue and intentionally ignore many others that were just as relevant to the discussion at the time. You picked out one thing NPCs in GW2 have in common with the filler-NPCs in SWTOR, but ignore the things they do different, even though those are highly relevant for the discussion of ambiance that this is about.
You want us to concede that some NPCs in GW2 don't move, just like in SWTOR, so that you can point at the fans and yell "liars". So if it makes you happy, yes, there are in fact NPCs in GW2 that just stand there and don't move.
Yes that's what you do when you want to keep a discussion on track on a specific thing, and it still didn't work. People need to move past "everything is a dig at gw2" it might make discussion an actual possibility around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm still waiting for the OP to arrive at a coherent point. I'm not sure if he was under the impression that every NPC in the game was going to be moving around the game world at all times, or if he's just a hater try-hard.
I don't remember ever reading, hearing or seeing anything that tried to say every single creature and npc in the game would be walking around. Frankly, that would be *LESS* realistic, since people do, um, stand once in a while. So what exactly is the point? The video clearly shows that city in GW2 has more NPC movement and activity than SWTOR did over the entire sum total of game map. That's not even getting into the night and day difference in sounds and general ambiance/atmosphere.
What part of my point isn't coherent? I'd be more than happy to explain what you don't undertstand?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
I highlighted the important part. You saw a guy running past NPCs and saw that only 4-5 were moving at a time. Did he hang around and see if the ones standing around would move on after a while? No?
See the problem is that you are stating that they dont move, when you have only watched them for a short period. Like I said earlier, pretty much every NPC moves and does other tasks if you watch them long enough. The only exception were merchants and vendors (for obvious convenience), although some merchants will contribute to defending outposts if they are attacked.
Comments
I wasn't arguing. I was stating my opinion on the matter. The fact that you were quoted had nothing to do with an argument.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
That's not what I am doing, I am asking a question in reference to things that were said, you guys are ignoring that question and are instead talking about "everything else".
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From the footage i've seen and the impressions gathered so far, i agree 100%. Oh and btw, i still stand by my PM even more so now
* Waves at Pushkina *
...I guess it was just in my head then. I was, afterall, suffering from lack of entertainment after my first 6 hours of play-through.
No, they did have conversations, they were few and far between, and quite low in volume, but they were there.
/thread
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Well, perhaps it was an assumption on my part. It's not everyday you run into somone on a forum who quotes you with a response that seems to superficially counter your statements but is, in fact, not the case. Apologies.
Oh good. I'll be back. I need to go cancel that appointment I just scheduled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLmknda6_Q
Give up...
You single out one issue and intentionally ignore many others that were just as relevant to the discussion at the time. You picked out one thing NPCs in GW2 have in common with the filler-NPCs in SWTOR, but ignore the things they do different, even though those are highly relevant for the discussion of ambiance that this is about.
You want us to concede that some NPCs in GW2 don't move, just like in SWTOR, so that you can point at the fans and yell "liars". So if it makes you happy, yes, there are in fact NPCs in GW2 that just stand there and don't move.
Agreed. This makes SWTOR look like a plastic diorama toy.
What SWTOR felt like to me (only with fewer players):
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
The video showcased what I was talking about actually so yeah /thread.. Most NPC's were stationary with one or two at most 4 -5 or so moving on screen at a time.
The point here isn't to point out a flaw in GW2 it's to point out a flaw in old arguments. The flaw is the thought that GW2 would be different than any other MMo and the limitations that will inevitably be there consdering the medium. MMO's will not have truly scheduled NPCs until the tech allows it. It doesn't..
People can go on and on about GW2 has more ambience, I never said it didn't I actually agreed with a person who said it does. That wasn't the point I was bringing up. But of course since it was viewed as a negative for another game, everyone see's red and all logic goes out the window.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Op is just misinforminated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLmknda6_Q
Give up...
Some people dont know when they are beaten,takes a while to sink in.
*Cackles*
ROFL, It's more an issue of people trying to move the goal posts when they can't argue against the actual point brought up.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wow, your really reaching here, picking one tiny aspect of a claim made by people here, then bait people into this ridiculous conversation.
The consensus in this, the GW2 cities are better, many people have said that. But that wasnt good enough for you, picking one piece, trying to argue that GW2 has more NPCs standing around.
Lets say we actually did a count, and found GW2 had more NPCs standing around than TOR. So what?
The players have spoken, they like GW2 cities better, get it?
lol, can't deny what was shown... but you seem to try anyways. In any case what you were told was that in GW2 it would not be as static as in TOR. That never meant that every NPC in the game would be constantly moving... why you took it that way is beyond me.
/chuckles
What did I deny that was shown? It was the same thing that was shown in the videos I saw that sparked the thought in the first place.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is going to have to be one of those things that I will have to try. I played SWTOR, and yeah, those cities seemed off. Need to actually get into GW2 before can make that call.
Please, bring back this topic after BWE happen so we can talk about it with first hand exprience. Only way to know if cities "feel" right or not.
I'm still waiting for the OP to arrive at a coherent point. I'm not sure if he was under the impression that every NPC in the game was going to be moving around the game world at all times, or if he's just a hater try-hard.
I don't remember ever reading, hearing or seeing anything that tried to say every single creature and npc in the game would be walking around. Frankly, that would be *LESS* realistic, since people do, um, stand once in a while. So what exactly is the point? The video clearly shows that city in GW2 has more NPC movement and activity than SWTOR did over the entire sum total of game map. That's not even getting into the (night and day) difference in sounds and general ambiance/atmosphere.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Yes that's what you do when you want to keep a discussion on track on a specific thing, and it still didn't work. People need to move past "everything is a dig at gw2" it might make discussion an actual possibility around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What part of my point isn't coherent? I'd be more than happy to explain what you don't undertstand?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I highlighted the important part. You saw a guy running past NPCs and saw that only 4-5 were moving at a time. Did he hang around and see if the ones standing around would move on after a while? No?
See the problem is that you are stating that they dont move, when you have only watched them for a short period. Like I said earlier, pretty much every NPC moves and does other tasks if you watch them long enough. The only exception were merchants and vendors (for obvious convenience), although some merchants will contribute to defending outposts if they are attacked.