Guild War 2 Might Cost you more than you think

Connmacart

Originally posted by Wayshuba

Snip

Calculation isn't biased in the slightest. Yes, you can grow 5 per day, but that doesn't change the total number of days needed at all. Even at 5 per day, per character slot you still need 2,000 total days (400 per character), which is still 400 days per character (as I metioned) which is 1.1 years per character. Still an awful lot of time assuming you log in every single days for 13  months. There is no single collection grind this intense in all of MMO land.

 

And none of it changes the fact that this is all driven, design wise, by the cash shop. Otherwise, we would have the standard drop and use in every other MMO (including GW1).

 

The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

And how many shades of green/yellow/blue does a person honestly need. Just because they are there does not mean you have to get them all. Unless you are an obsessive compulsive person, but than you have bigger problems to be honest.

The_Korrigan

No matter how you try to turn it, it doesn't require 2000 days to get the dyes on 5 characters. You keep on conveniently ignoring parts of what I've said, like the fact that you can also buy the dye kits from the shop with game gold without ever playing a cent of real money. That's no different from buying the kits from an in game NPC.

Originally posted by Wayshuba



The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

If you want to see a store affecting the game (and badly), I suggest you try playing LOTRO. There, yes, the store affects you permanently, it's actually slammed in your face at every opportunity.

But in GW2? Definitely not. And as I demonstrated above, no, you do NOT have to live with one color per day. Not only you can grow several on alts, but you can buy the kits in the shop with game gold just as if you bought it from a NPC.

Try LOTRO if you haven't. You'll see what I'm talking about.

IPolygon

Who needs 400 different colors anyway? GW1 had a lot of colors aswell, but black has always been the most expensive. Once you unlock black in GW2 for one char, you won't ever have to buy a black dye again. I think it is far better than in most MMOs, where you need to buy dye potions for every piece (or cannot dye an armor set at all).

Wayshuba

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

No matter how you try to turn it, it doesn't require 2000 days to get the dyes on 5 characters. You keep on conveniently ignoring parts of what I've said, like the fact that you can also buy the dye kits from the shop with game gold without ever playing a cent of real money. That's no different from buying the kits from an in game NPC.

Originally posted by Wayshuba



The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

If you want to see a store affecting the game (and badly), I suggest you try playing LOTRO. There, yes, the store affects you permanently, it's actually slammed in your face at every opportunity.

But in GW2? Definitely not. And as I demonstrated above, no, you do NOT have to live with one color per day. Not only you can grow several on alts, but you can buy the kits in the shop with game gold just as if you bought it from a NPC.

Try LOTRO if you haven't. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, that's why I am concerned here. I'd did play LOTRO, as a lifer, for more than four years and I saw how the drive to get everyone to use the cash shop destroyed that game.

 

Regardless of the number of dyes, think for a minute about the in game mechanic - growing a dye color a day or accelerating it with a grow flower and getting to use it on one character only. Why such a silly mechanic (when most games just drop the dang dye - including GW1)? Simple, to get many to use the store. Again, I worry mostly that, like LOTRO, as updates come they will be more about what we can get people to purchase from the store and then the design of the game itself will end up accomodating the drive there - ala LOTRO.

 

So, it really isn't about the number of dyes or the store - it is about the store causing silly mechanics (or later dreaded grinds just to sell accelerators) effecting the design of the game whether you use the store or not. Yes, unlike LOTRO where the Buy Now button is on just about every dialog box in the game, it isn't that bad, but already, from first BWE we have game design influenced by wanting players to use the store and that is what concerns me.

Hurvart

Originally posted by Wayshuba

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

No matter how you try to turn it, it doesn't require 2000 days to get the dyes on 5 characters. You keep on conveniently ignoring parts of what I've said, like the fact that you can also buy the dye kits from the shop with game gold without ever playing a cent of real money. That's no different from buying the kits from an in game NPC.

Originally posted by Wayshuba



The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

If you want to see a store affecting the game (and badly), I suggest you try playing LOTRO. There, yes, the store affects you permanently, it's actually slammed in your face at every opportunity.

But in GW2? Definitely not. And as I demonstrated above, no, you do NOT have to live with one color per day. Not only you can grow several on alts, but you can buy the kits in the shop with game gold just as if you bought it from a NPC.

Try LOTRO if you haven't. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, that's why I am concerned here. I'd did play LOTRO, as a lifer, for more than four years and I saw how the drive to get everyone to use the cash shop destroyed that game.

 

Regardless of the number of dyes, think for a minute about the in game mechanic - growing a dye color a day or accelerating it with a grow flower and getting to use it on one character only. Why such a silly mechanic (when most games just drop the dang dye - including GW1)? Simple, to get many to use the store. Again, I worry mostly that, like LOTRO, as updates come they will be more about what we can get people to purchase from the store and then the design of the game itself will end up accomodating the drive there - ala LOTRO.

 

So, it really isn't about the number of dyes or the store - it is about the store causing silly mechanics (or later dreaded grinds just to sell accelerators) effecting the design of the game whether you use the store or not. Yes, unlike LOTRO where the Buy Now button is on just about every dialog box in the game, it isn't that bad, but already, from first BWE we have game design influenced by wanting players to use the store and that is what concerns me.

Yes. Lotro is probably the most offensive Pay 2 Win fest on the market. And Turbine the master of fraud and lies... If there is one company that will never get any money from me it is Turbine.

Windows pop up all the time telling you to buy things in the CS to win. The grind feels terrible all the time and you get reminded to go to the CS to make it better. To buy the stupid Li enhance scroll instead of grinding for weeks to get it...and so on. And, yes, the whole game is designed to make you need/want to use the CS as often as possible.

People that have played Lotro and really hate the game and the company are of course worried. Perhaps they are looking forward to play Gw2 but fear that eventually the CS will turn in to the terrible mess that we can see in Lotro. Personally I hope and also really want to believe it will be better in Gw2. That the CS will never have the type of items they sell in Lotro or other terrible games.

I mean people are negative and fear the CS in Gw2 will be bad based on bad experiences and painful lessons learned in other games. Can you blame them?

oakthornn

A. I will only play one main character until max level before rolling my first alt. So, I'll never need the extra slots.

B. I could care less about extra bank space. If It's junk, I sell it.. I hardly ever store items

C. The extra bag slots would sound nice for when I'm out leveling, but I'll just tele back to town to sell more often, then tele back to my leveling area..

D. I knew GW2 would have a cash shop because there's no way a game this huge was going to be 100% free.. I wouldn't be surprised to see end game raid content costing thousands of gems to unlock...  or something like 20 USD a person..

The_Korrigan

There's no such thing as a "endgame raid" in GW2.

But you can be sure the expansions will be paid for - developers too have families they need to take care of, and that requires earning money...

clumsytoes44

I read a post somewhere, i think on a-net's site about how you can grind out gem's much like grinding out turbine point's in LOTRO ( i could be wrong). When LOTRO went f2p i had a bad feeling about it, stopped playing for a few month's and lost alot of quest content even  though i had purchased the Mines Of Moria collector's edition ( could get it all back with turbine point's or still paying a sub. Unfortunately in 1 month i spent about 30 extra buck's on turbine point's for relic removal scroll's, legacy upgrade scroll's, and the 1 that gives your legendary item's 10 extra lvl's. Turn's out to be competitive in LOTRO you will spend more than a current sub rate (15$). I'm hopefull GW2 will not go the same way. Also many ppl may not consider GW1 a mmorpg, but it is going on 7 year's. 3 stand alone games that could be linked to the same account and 1 true expac.

The cs they brought out, had item's i thought was good for a cash shop. Nothing was ( i win cause i gave moar monies!!!!).

1. The biggest item's there for me was extra chr slot's, i have 8 with all 3 games, so not needed.

2. Bank slot's, very usefull i have bought a few.

3. pvp skill pack's. haven't bought any.

4. bonus mission pack, have not bought it. although i have thought about it.

5. cosmetic costumes, again not needed, but i have most of them.

6. Any of the campeign's your missing.

I may have forgotten a few item's but i think a-net making a cs for GW1 was a learning tool. so hopefully they'll get it right.

Going by the GW1 cs, i see absolutely nothing game changing. Having to pay for some extra chr slot's and storage i can live with, because they are not needed, but are nice for altaholic ppl, and ppl who love to collect random stuff.

travamars

It's no suprise its cost a lot to play GW2 since its a F2P built around the cash shop.

This excuse that their familys need to eat so that why its going to cost so much is BS.. These same people making excuses for the cost are probably the same ones that complained about F2P cash shops.

Its time to face reality people. Your precious GW2 is a F2P cash shop game, only they knew fanboys would pay for a box also. If your on the fence for this game just wait about 6 months and they'll lose the box sale and give the game for free. The more people playing the game = the more people having to spend in the cash shop to play.

Volkon

Originally posted by travamars

It's no suprise its cost a lot to play GW2 since its a F2P built around the cash shop.

This excuse that their familys need to eat so that why its going to cost so much is BS.. These same people making excuses for the cost are probably the same ones that complained about F2P cash shops.

Its time to face reality people. Your precious GW2 is a F2P cash shop game, only they knew fanboys would pay for a box also. If your on the fence for this game just wait about 6 months and they'll lose the box sale and give the game for free. The more people playing the game = the more people having to spend in the cash shop to play.

/facepalm

 

Buy to play. BUY to play. Cash shop fully optional. Nothing required from the cash shop. These are established facts. Now hush and go back to your lesser MMO of choice.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by travamars

It's no suprise its cost a lot to play GW2 since its a F2P built around the cash shop.

This excuse that their familys need to eat so that why its going to cost so much is BS.. These same people making excuses for the cost are probably the same ones that complained about F2P cash shops.

Its time to face reality people. Your precious GW2 is a F2P cash shop game, only they knew fanboys would pay for a box also. If your on the fence for this game just wait about 6 months and they'll lose the box sale and give the game for free. The more people playing the game = the more people having to spend in the cash shop to play.

A good example of a post full of assumptions without a single real fact to base its doomsday claims on.

It's obvious from your recent post history that you are on an agenda here... try at least to find some facts if you have to be negative, instead of making assumptions about what other people do and about what the game will be in 6 months.

travamars

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by travamars

It's no suprise its cost a lot to play GW2 since its a F2P built around the cash shop.

This excuse that their familys need to eat so that why its going to cost so much is BS.. These same people making excuses for the cost are probably the same ones that complained about F2P cash shops.

Its time to face reality people. Your precious GW2 is a F2P cash shop game, only they knew fanboys would pay for a box also. If your on the fence for this game just wait about 6 months and they'll lose the box sale and give the game for free. The more people playing the game = the more people having to spend in the cash shop to play.

/facepalm

 

Buy to play. BUY to play. Cash shop fully optional. Nothing required from the cash shop. These are established facts. Now hush and go back to your lesser MMO of choice.

Yes Buy to Play...duh. I said in my post you would pay for a box also.

If its not required for you to have bag slots and bank space then any F2P would be perfect for you. And you wouldn't have to buy the box.

Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by Wayshuba

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

No matter how you try to turn it, it doesn't require 2000 days to get the dyes on 5 characters. You keep on conveniently ignoring parts of what I've said, like the fact that you can also buy the dye kits from the shop with game gold without ever playing a cent of real money. That's no different from buying the kits from an in game NPC.

Originally posted by Wayshuba



The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

If you want to see a store affecting the game (and badly), I suggest you try playing LOTRO. There, yes, the store affects you permanently, it's actually slammed in your face at every opportunity.

But in GW2? Definitely not. And as I demonstrated above, no, you do NOT have to live with one color per day. Not only you can grow several on alts, but you can buy the kits in the shop with game gold just as if you bought it from a NPC.

Try LOTRO if you haven't. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, that's why I am concerned here. I'd did play LOTRO, as a lifer, for more than four years and I saw how the drive to get everyone to use the cash shop destroyed that game.

 

Regardless of the number of dyes, think for a minute about the in game mechanic - growing a dye color a day or accelerating it with a grow flower and getting to use it on one character only. Why such a silly mechanic (when most games just drop the dang dye - including GW1)? Simple, to get many to use the store. Again, I worry mostly that, like LOTRO, as updates come they will be more about what we can get people to purchase from the store and then the design of the game itself will end up accomodating the drive there - ala LOTRO.

 

So, it really isn't about the number of dyes or the store - it is about the store causing silly mechanics (or later dreaded grinds just to sell accelerators) effecting the design of the game whether you use the store or not. Yes, unlike LOTRO where the Buy Now button is on just about every dialog box in the game, it isn't that bad, but already, from first BWE we have game design influenced by wanting players to use the store and that is what concerns me.

Yes. Lotro is probably the most offensive Pay 2 Win fest on the market. And Turbine the master of fraud and lies... If there is one company that will never get any money from me it is Turbine.

Windows pop up all the time telling you to buy things in the CS to win. The grind feels terrible all the time and you get reminded to go to the CS to make it better. To buy the stupid Li enhance scroll instead of grinding for weeks to get it...and so on. And, yes, the whole game is designed to make you need/want to use the CS as often as possible.

People that have played Lotro and really hate the game and the company are of course worried. Perhaps they are looking forward to play Gw2 but fear that eventually the CS will turn in to the terrible mess that we can see in Lotro. Personally I hope and also really want to believe it will be better in Gw2. That the CS will never have the type of items they sell in Lotro or other terrible games.

I mean people are negative and fear the CS in Gw2 will be bad based on bad experiences and painful lessons learned in other games. Can you blame them?

You guys are seriously smoking something. LotRO's is far from being even remotely near the worst cash shop not to mention trying to say it is p2w is simply ridiculous.

I see this forum is going to be beyond amusing when people feel their game is being threatened or "mistreated" ...

I mean wow...

Macecard

Originally posted by Atlan99

Interesting post by Valatar on the Guild Wars 2 Beta Forums. He breaks down some of the hidden costs of GW2.

 

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gem/The-Gem-Store-s-Grim-Math-or-Why-GW2-may-cost-220/page/1#post115334

 

 

Valatar

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, new player! We’re the fun new game where you don’t pay a monthly fee to play! But you do realize of course that we need money to keep up our servers and update the game, so there are a few modest cash store items to help cover our costs. But it’s probably nothing that you actually need, so don’t pay any attention to it!

How do you like the classes? They’re all great fun, aren’t they? We bet you’d like to play them all! But not so fast, you only have five character slots. If you want the other three, you’ll just need to make a one-time payment in the cash shop to unlock them. It’s only 800 gems per slot, so for only 2400 gems you’ll be on your way!

What’s that, adventurer? Your bags are full? Why shucks, have we got a deal for you! You have seven bag slots, but we locked three of them so you’d have room to grow! For an insignificant 400 gems, you can unlock one bag slot on one character. Of course, if you have eight characters, that’s twenty-four slots, but hey, what’s a little 9600 gems between friends for the luxury of being able to carry things?

Oh, you wanted to actually be able to store things? Like, in a bank? Well other MMOGs make you spend nasty gold to have more than 30 bank slots, but not us! You can just buy them with gems! We’ve helped you out by making the sky the limit and locked a whopping seven bank expansions at 600 gems each, so you can feel extra accomplished when you pull out your credit card to pay for the 4200 gems for that.

tl;dr:

At the current listed rates, you have to pay 16,200 gems to have eight characters with unlocked inventory and bank slots in GW2. With the assumption that the conversion rate is $1=100 gems, that’s $162 dollars above and beyond the box cost of the game. Edit: The actual gem price is believed to be $5=400 gems, which makes the cost $202.50 for those 16200 gems. A year’s subscription to WoW is $156 if purchased in six-month blocks, making it ironically cheaper to play a year of WoW than a year of GW2.

Bear in mind that I’m ignoring vanity items, convenience items, and keys in this tally. Those are all entirely optional, and a player can take or leave those without any particular penalty. I’m focusing entirely on the one universal constant of any MMOG: storage. It’s the thing that is indisputably vital for every player, that nobody can afford to be without, and everybody absolutely requires. Anyone who doesn’t purchase bag and bank space is going to be regretting it, deeply and often. I don’t consider it optional, and doubt that anyone with any length of experience in online games would disagree with me on that.

There needs to be an alternative option to gems for purchasing in-game storage. There’s no telling what the gold value of gems will be after the game’s release, but if the beta weekend’s average around 20 silver per gem holds true, it will cost 120 gold per bank expansion and 80 gold per bag slot, which are fairly ridiculous amounts. Edit: My numbers for the silver price for gems was incorrect, see below.

Alternatively, making the bag slots an account-wide purchase rather than a per-character purchase would save the eight-character player 8400 gems, making the grand total a much more reasonable sum.

Disclaimer:

All of this hinges on beta test gem prices for cash shop items, and involves an assumption on the cash price for gems. Either of those two things may change before release. My goal in bringing this to peoples’ attention is not to incite panicked nerd rage, but to make people aware of the potential cash cost in GW2’s gem store model of business, and the fact that it may be no less expensive than other games with monthly fees.

 

This is the kind of discussion people had when the first F2P games came out. Obviously you can spend WAY more than a sub based game but you can also spend way less. Valatar obviously thinks P2P is better, I think F2P is better. We have different opinions, Arenanet have choosen to go F2P. Get over yourself Valatar, Games companies don't care when the indivdual thinks. If you think your going to spend more money playing GW2 than say SWTOR, then don't play it, or budget better. Why exactly is this Arenanet's problem? Play with only 5 toons and limited bag space and play for FREE!!!!. Can you only use 1 toon in swtor and only 1 line of your bag and play for free? NO! you pay regardless of what you use in sub games. I could very easily make a nice sarcastic post regarding a P2P game and make it sound like the company is ripping you off by making you pay a sub fee.

So congrats on great writing style and sarcastic demeanor, however all your points are void since F2P has been around before and despite all the downfalls you have so cleverly pointed out still exsists successfully in online games today.

 

Hurvart

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by Wayshuba

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

No matter how you try to turn it, it doesn't require 2000 days to get the dyes on 5 characters. You keep on conveniently ignoring parts of what I've said, like the fact that you can also buy the dye kits from the shop with game gold without ever playing a cent of real money. That's no different from buying the kits from an in game NPC.

Originally posted by Wayshuba



The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.

 

If you want to see a store affecting the game (and badly), I suggest you try playing LOTRO. There, yes, the store affects you permanently, it's actually slammed in your face at every opportunity.

But in GW2? Definitely not. And as I demonstrated above, no, you do NOT have to live with one color per day. Not only you can grow several on alts, but you can buy the kits in the shop with game gold just as if you bought it from a NPC.

Try LOTRO if you haven't. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, that's why I am concerned here. I'd did play LOTRO, as a lifer, for more than four years and I saw how the drive to get everyone to use the cash shop destroyed that game.

 

Regardless of the number of dyes, think for a minute about the in game mechanic - growing a dye color a day or accelerating it with a grow flower and getting to use it on one character only. Why such a silly mechanic (when most games just drop the dang dye - including GW1)? Simple, to get many to use the store. Again, I worry mostly that, like LOTRO, as updates come they will be more about what we can get people to purchase from the store and then the design of the game itself will end up accomodating the drive there - ala LOTRO.

 

So, it really isn't about the number of dyes or the store - it is about the store causing silly mechanics (or later dreaded grinds just to sell accelerators) effecting the design of the game whether you use the store or not. Yes, unlike LOTRO where the Buy Now button is on just about every dialog box in the game, it isn't that bad, but already, from first BWE we have game design influenced by wanting players to use the store and that is what concerns me.

Yes. Lotro is probably the most offensive Pay 2 Win fest on the market. And Turbine the master of fraud and lies... If there is one company that will never get any money from me it is Turbine.

Windows pop up all the time telling you to buy things in the CS to win. The grind feels terrible all the time and you get reminded to go to the CS to make it better. To buy the stupid Li enhance scroll instead of grinding for weeks to get it...and so on. And, yes, the whole game is designed to make you need/want to use the CS as often as possible.

People that have played Lotro and really hate the game and the company are of course worried. Perhaps they are looking forward to play Gw2 but fear that eventually the CS will turn in to the terrible mess that we can see in Lotro. Personally I hope and also really want to believe it will be better in Gw2. That the CS will never have the type of items they sell in Lotro or other terrible games.

I mean people are negative and fear the CS in Gw2 will be bad based on bad experiences and painful lessons learned in other games. Can you blame them?

You guys are seriously smoking something. LotRO's is far from being even remotely near the worst cash shop not to mention trying to say it is p2w is simply ridiculous.

I see this forum is going to be beyond amusing when people feel their game is being threatened or "mistreated" ...

I mean wow...

In that case Im very happy I have never played one of the games that are worse. Lotro is certainly bad enough for me to get very upset. And in what way is it not pay to win? How could a game be more P2W? There is Monster play(PvP). They sell boosts for that. The pop up window will even tell you "buy boost X an wreck havoc in MP"... They also sell stat boosts and item boosts... And every time saver you could ever imagine.

If Lotro is not P2W. No F2p is P2W... If some games are worse I prefer to not even think about them.

Personally based on principle and personal preference I will not play any game designed like that. I have no fun. Its not for me. And its my time and money.

AIMonster

We are getting so far off the original topic of this thread and now it's just become a discussion of if the cash shop in GW2 is acceptable or not (which we have plenty of threads of).  Let's go back on topic of the actual costs of the cash shop.  Facts:

• 
  If you were a player inclined to buy all the permenant unlocks at once except for maybe additional bag slots on every character but one, you'll wind up paying about $50 upfront.
• 
  Assuming you had to pay for every single bag slot on every single character including the unlocked ones you'd wind up paying an additional $140 upfront.  There is plenty of bag space in game available especially with the additional characters you purchased to mule to, so there isn't much reason to do this.  In 2 years time with conservative cosmetic purchases you'd be below two year's subscription cost in WoW.
• 
  If you were to spend money conservatively on the cash shop monthly (say $5 a month) on top of the $50 you'd still be paying a lot less than a yearly subscription to World of Warcraft.  This includes enough money for dye packs, the style sets (rarely), and transmutation stones.  Next year you wouldn't have to pay the $50 again either.
• 
  If you were to try to unlock everything and purchase every single cosmetic item in the shop, then yes, you'd wind up paying quite a bit more than an annual subscription to WoW.  A question we might ask is why would you do this?
• 
  If you were to pay for gameplay advantages such as mystic keys (which also drop in game albeit very infrequently) and boosts then you'll wind up paying close to a fortune to keep them active.  These are probably the worst offenders in the cash shop, but why even bother in a game that isn't focused on endgame and fast progression is pretty much meaningless?
• 
  This is completely ignoring that you can use gold you earn in game to purchase gems too, which over a year's time should negate some of the costs associated with the above.  Not to mention you can earn dyes in game through farming and seeds without using the cash shop.

Again, let me just state that I hate the cash shop, some of the items in it, and what they might imply especially in the future, but this isn't what this thread is about.  It's about costs, and if we weigh the costs against a subscription based game GW2 is still A LOT cheaper over time assuming we don't go overboard on (PvE only) gameplay advantages and cosmetics.

Wayshuba

Originally posted by travamars

It's no suprise its cost a lot to play GW2 since its a F2P built around the cash shop.

This excuse that their familys need to eat so that why its going to cost so much is BS.. These same people making excuses for the cost are probably the same ones that complained about F2P cash shops.

Its time to face reality people. Your precious GW2 is a F2P cash shop game, only they knew fanboys would pay for a box also. If your on the fence for this game just wait about 6 months and they'll lose the box sale and give the game for free. The more people playing the game = the more people having to spend in the cash shop to play.

No, no, no, no, no. GW2 is NOT F2P. Free-to-play means game is free with no monthly sub. ArenaNet is charging a good sum for the game so it is not free-to-play. That being the case, the model they had with GW1 was good. Pay for game and expansions (like software publishers for desktop games do) and supplement it with cash shop in exchange for monthly rate. This is why the store they have in GW1 is so good. Everything is account wide (like costumes).

 

Cash shop in GW2 is fine except for - character only purchases and silly game design (growing dye plants once per day) influenced by cash shop. You had none of that in GW1.

 

This is the starting road that lead Turbine down the wrong path with LOTRO. I don't wish to see ArenaNet do the same thing.

Atlan99

Originally posted by Macecard

This is the kind of discussion people had when the first F2P games came out. Obviously you can spend WAY more than a sub based game but you can also spend way less. Valatar obviously thinks P2P is better, I think F2P is better. We have different opinions, Arenanet have choosen to go F2P. Get over yourself Valatar, Games companies don't care when the indivdual thinks. If you think your going to spend more money playing GW2 than say SWTOR, then don't play it, or budget better. Why exactly is this Arenanet's problem? Play with only 5 toons and limited bag space and play for FREE!!!!. Can you only use 1 toon in swtor and only 1 line of your bag and play for free? NO! you pay regardless of what you use in sub games. I could very easily make a nice sarcastic post regarding a P2P game and make it sound like the company is ripping you off by making you pay a sub fee.

So congrats on great writing style and sarcastic demeanor, however all your points are void since F2P has been around before and despite all the downfalls you have so cleverly pointed out still exsists successfully in online games today. 

All Valatar is doing is bringing up some issues he had with the gem shop.

If game companies did not care what people thought, then they would not respond to them. The fact is that the Arenanet developer's do seem to care and do respond to criticisms brought up about their game. If you took a couple minutes to browse the GW2 beta forums you would see this. 

Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

In that case Im very happy I have never played one of the games that are worse. Lotro is certainly bad enough for me to get very upset. And in what way is it not pay to win? How could a game be more P2W? There is Monster play(PvP). They sell boosts for that. The pop up window will even tell you "buy boost X an wreck havoc in MP"... They also sell stat boosts and item boosts... And every time saver you could ever imagine.

If Lotro is not P2W. No F2p is P2W... If some games are worse I prefer to not even think about them.

Personally based on principle and personal preference I will not play any game designed like that. I have no fun. Its not for me. And its my time and money.

 Because those boosts can also be obtained in game, purchased from others selling them in the ah, or bought yourself through earning tb points by playing the game.

Not to mention overall Monster play is a joke anyways and such a minor portion of the game. LotR is essentially a PvE game. To a fault really.

...and yes, clearly you haven't played many f2p games at all if you think that Rings is p2w or even remotely close to being the worst there is. Not to mention it is a f2p game so this whole comparison overall is rather dumb. There are going to be obvious differences between how a shop is run in a b2p game compared to f2p.

Feel free to not play those types of games all you want. Not going to argue that you should. But to make the statements you and some others made was simply too ridiculous to ignore.

Hurvart

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

In that case Im very happy I have never played one of the games that are worse. Lotro is certainly bad enough for me to get very upset. And in what way is it not pay to win? How could a game be more P2W? There is Monster play(PvP). They sell boosts for that. The pop up window will even tell you "buy boost X an wreck havoc in MP"... They also sell stat boosts and item boosts... And every time saver you could ever imagine.

If Lotro is not P2W. No F2p is P2W... If some games are worse I prefer to not even think about them.

Personally based on principle and personal preference I will not play any game designed like that. I have no fun. Its not for me. And its my time and money.

 Because those boosts can also be obtained in game, purcahaed from ohers selling them in the ah, or bought yourelf through earning tb points by playing the game.

Not to mention overall Monster play is a joke anyways and such a minor portion of the game. LotR is essentially a PvE game. To a fault really.

...and yes, clearly you haven't played many f2p games at all if you think that Rings is p2w or even remotely close to being the worst there is. Not to mention it is a f2p game so this whole comparison overall is rather dumb. There are going to be obvious differences between how a shop is run in a b2p game compared to f2p.

Feel free to not play those types of games all you want. Not going to argue that you should. But to make the statements you and some others made was simply too ridiculous to ignore.

Why is my definition of P2W rediculos? I dont think there is a definition set in stone. From my POV everything I explained is perfectly valid. And my POV depends on what I like and on what I think is fair...

I dont know why you are defending the business model they use in Lotro. If you think its good...play it and other games like it. I dont care. I will not!

Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

 

Why is my definition of P2W rediculos? I dont think there is a definition set in stone. From my POV everything I explained is perfectly valid. And my POV depends on what I like and on what I think is fair...

I dont know why you are defending the business model they use in Lotro. If you think its good...play it and other games like it. I dont care. I will not!

Because by your own statement you haven't even played many of these f2p games so you have no idea what the hell you're talking about not to mention I already stated why it is for this game. Pretty simple really...

I'm not defending their model. I'm simply calling you and the others out for your bullshit. Like I said feel free not to play them. They're not for everyone that is for sure.

In other words, you guys can make your points without having to make others wade through a load of complete and utter bs.

 

Valkaern

Hehe, this thing's still going on?

They're desperate to find some outrageous conspiracy, aren't they?

It's pretty telling considering they ignore all the facts, let them think it'll cost millions and ignore it, those of us that are familiar with reality and can actually do math have nothing to learn from their crusade (except to avoid it, they're rabid).

Hurvart

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Hurvart

 

Why is my definition of P2W rediculos? I dont think there is a definition set in stone. From my POV everything I explained is perfectly valid. And my POV depends on what I like and on what I think is fair...

I dont know why you are defending the business model they use in Lotro. If you think its good...play it and other games like it. I dont care. I will not!

Because by your own statement you haven't even played many of these f2p games so you have no idea what the hell you're talking about not to mention I already stated why it is for this game. Pretty simple really...

I'm not defending their model. I'm simply calling you and the others out for your bullshit. Like I said feel free not to play them. They're not for everyone that is for sure.

In other words, you guys can make your points without having to make others wade through a load of complete and utter bs.

 

If they are worse I am happy I never played them. Lotro is bad enough... I want to find out if I can accept the CS in GW2 and enjoy the game. Ii its anything like the one in Lotro I will not. I know that.

I very much believe in the P2P business model. I really like it.  A B2P game could also be OK. But if its really a CS game and the CS is almost like the one in Lotro I will not play.

Perhaps you think its BS. But I think its important. And Im not alone. Other people think and feel the same way.

I dont play games that I know I will not like. Do you? I have better things to do. I play games to have fun. And I really dont like F2P games with advatage CS.

Sp1dersbane

Originally posted by Atlan99

At the current listed rates, you have to pay 16,200 gems to have eight characters with unlocked inventory and bank slots in GW2. With the assumption that the conversion rate is $1=100 gems, that’s $162 dollars above and beyond the box cost of the game. Edit: The actual gem price is believed to be $5=400 gems, which makes the cost $202.50 for those 16200 gems. A year’s subscription to WoW is $156 if purchased in six-month blocks, making it ironically cheaper to play a year of WoW than a year of GW2.

Bear in mind that I’m ignoring vanity items, convenience items, and keys in this tally. Those are all entirely optional, and a player can take or leave those without any particular penalty. I’m focusing entirely on the one universal constant of any MMOG: storage. It’s the thing that is indisputably vital for every player, that nobody can afford to be without, and everybody absolutely requires. Anyone who doesn’t purchase bag and bank space is going to be regretting it, deeply and often. I don’t consider it optional, and doubt that anyone with any length of experience in online games would disagree with me on that.

There needs to be an alternative option to gems for purchasing in-game storage. There’s no telling what the gold value of gems will be after the game’s release, but if the beta weekend’s average around 20 silver per gem holds true, it will cost 120 gold per bank expansion and 80 gold per bag slot, which are fairly ridiculous amounts. Edit: My numbers for the silver price for gems was incorrect, see below.

Alternatively, making the bag slots an account-wide purchase rather than a per-character purchase would save the eight-character player 8400 gems, making the grand total a much more reasonable sum.

Disclaimer:

All of this hinges on beta test gem prices for cash shop items, and involves an assumption on the cash price for gems. Either of those two things may change before release. My goal in bringing this to peoples’ attention is not to incite panicked nerd rage, but to make people aware of the potential cash cost in GW2’s gem store model of business, and the fact that it may be no less expensive than other games with monthly fees.

/Cough on topic

 

Ok Blue selection!

Gotta love playing round with numbers. I'll take your $156 yearly subscription for WoW and multiply it by 4 years of play time. $624 to play a damn computer game for 4 years!?! I've been playing minesweeper longer than that and it's free, they must be ripping us off!

Gw2 @ $202.50 with your 8 slots unlocked and 8 characters with all their bag slots unlocked (aka never HAVE to purchase them again). Play that for 4 years and your still only paying $202.50, that's like $50.63 per year!?!

Seriously, why spend $156 per year for a game you play for 4 years when you can spend $50.63 a year!

Ironically this get's even funnier the longer you play a game (I played WoW for 7 years)

$156 a year for 7 years comes to $1092 - Compared to $202.50 for 7 years of GW2 @ $28.93 per year!

Wow $156

GW2 $28.93

Bet your glad you started playing with numbers right?

 

Remember those character slots remain unlocked, those bag slots will always be unlocked for those characters, you never HAVE to spend that money again. You do HAVE to pay a subscription for WoW each and every month (or every 6 months or yearly), you have no choice but to continue feeding WoW money if you wish to play. Meanwhile GW2 just keep's on trucking.

 

 

Green section!

 

As mentioned in the blue section I played WoW for 7 years....since early vanilla (That's the original content for any scratching their heads). Any WoW player, who's played for more than an hour, will tell you that bags are important. This is because when you kill anything in that game you get atleast one piece of grey loot, grey loot is different for each type of monster and it's only use is to vendor for a few copper. As an old skool player I know for a fact that you get given bags in wow and buying bags is relatively cheap.

 

So, after playing WoW for 7 years i must use enormous bags right?

Nope, i use 16 slot bags because they're cheap as hell and I actually keep my bags tidy and sell stuff i don't need/want.

Backpack (everyone has) 16 slots

4 extra bag slots @ 16 slots each

That's room for 80 items in my inventory at all times. I used to play a feral druid with a resto offspec, I used to have to take 3 sets of gear into raids, buff foods and flasks and drinks. Even during raids I had plenty of room to breathe in my bags.

 

GW2 is offering the same kind of setup as above, but without the stupid amount of grey items being dropped. they also let you post things on the AH from anywhere, send crafting materials straight to your bank and from what the crafters have been reporting, use 20 slot bags!

As a grinder and someone who likes to run round with multipule sets of gear with me, I fail to see how buying extra bag slots are required. They're nice to have but are far from a requirement. So, i'll have to disagree with you on that point OP......signed someone who's been a bag fanatic since 2004 and has played a game renowned for throwing useless junk at players to store. Bank tabs....i made do with what GW1 offered.

 

 

Pink Section!

 

I colored this pink because it's a funny color and the highlighted text made me chuckle. You made a long, boring and pointless post about something seen in Beta. Your trying to convince people that they will HAVE to spend their hard earned cash in the gem shop and that they will most likely spend more on GW2 than WoW.

What if those people bought those gems using in game gold. What if they didn't buy anything for a year. Your points are only flagging you as a doomsayer, you've linked and quoted a post that's pointing out what's available, not what's required.

 

You've taken a subject you knew would cause people to be up in arms over and sensationlised it but putting your own personal twist on it. You've pulled figures out of the air for the price of gems and tried to tell people it'll be cheaper to pay a years worth of WoW subs than a sub free game. Your quotes hinge on people only playing an MMO for a year, what if we go backwards.

You pay $78 for your 6 month sub in wow but only play 1 month of it.

You pay nothing for the first month of GW2 then quit.

Who's lost out the most?

 

Sorry but your on rails, you fail to see any other options other than what YOU WANT. If you want to buy extra character slots and extra bank/bag slots then only play for a year, that's your choice. People have a tendancy not to invest in things they don't like, if they think they're not gonna play it for long then they wont spend extra cash.

 

 

TL:DR - Don't give up your day job. Game research is not your thing, trolling will never make you money and i think this thread is dead. It's taken more than enough of my time and the same Cash Shop Activists keep spinning the same rubbish over and over. They seem incapable of thinking with any level of reason or logic.

The whole point of this thread is to try to convince people that they MUST purchase all character slots and all bag/bank slots. Then buying these slots was more expensive than playing wow.....for a year. /cough

 

Where's the MUST? --> http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Shop

 

Noun

must (plural musts)

1. 
   Something that is mandatory or required

   
   If you'll be out all day, sunscreen is a must.

 

 

 

Atlan99

Originally posted by Sp1dersbane

 

Pretty Colours.

The fact remains. If you think that the box is all you will have to pay for GW2 then it might cost you more than you think.

Does this mean everybody? No

It doesn't have to be true for everybody or even you.

P.S. Keep bumping dead threads