Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Guild War 2 Might Cost you more than you think
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
They are not 'hidden.' A hidden cost is a cost you have to pay that is not disclosed when you purchase. For example, I buy an airline ticket. I bring my one bag to check in. THey charge me even though other airlines do not charge me for one bag. That was not disclosed or noted (anywhere noticeable) when I purchased.
Cell phone companies are notorius for this as well. They have a process known as 'cramming' where they set up third-party services on the bills. Even though you didn't authorize them. Then they give them undecipherable names and charge you for them. In the past decade those hidden charges have been estimated to be in the $2 billion range.
Having a cash shop in which I have the option of buying unnecessary items with in-game gold or real-life cash, all fully disclosed to me, the consumer, is not a 'hidden cost.' By defintion.
Which means he doesn't have a valid point about 'hidden costs.' They're not hidden or forced upon you. You get the game. You get a perfectly good inventory, a perfectly good vault and everything disclosed up front.
Well all you need to do is go and check GW1 and you will get the picture.
- 3 stand alone games you could buy or not by choice.
No matter which one you had, you could still play with people that had the other ones in pvp as also certain other areas.
- 1 expansion EotN that brought tons of fun with it adding additional heroes, mini games, new quests, more skills, dungeons, areas and so on...
- 3-4 free updates that kept people interested and gave them more to do (sorrows furnace, zaishen menagerie and challenge, shining blade quests and more)
- many events through the years giving additional cosmetic or consumable items
- birthday presents for each created character every year
- hall of monuments
- item shop with several packs one could buy if they wanted but never really needed, several costumes (season based, gods based, among others)
I was in the preview of GW1 back in 2004, all the betas till its release in 2005 and stayed for 5+ years.
Now 8 years later the game is still going high and the population is still present enjoying the game with no extra costs for several years.
Instead they have the CHOICE to buy something if they WANT. They don't have to, they don't need to.
Same goes for GW2!
You have the CHOICE to buy something from the item shop but you don't have to, nor do you need it to enjoy the game.
You can expand your bag slots in game, your bank account is big enough and you get 5 character slots (one for each race) while most f2p and p2p mmos give you only 3 slots no matter how many races or classes are available.
So many people indeed will buy "cool things" like a pirate costume because they want to.
Do they have to? NOPE! Will it be needed to progress in the game? NOPE! Will you be in disadvantage by not having the "eye cookie" they have? NOPE.
It's a CHOICE once again. People that like such things they will purchase some and support the game and the further development of it.
A expansion or two will probably come our for a low price and add more content but they will probably be of the same nature they were in GW1 and won't affect someone that doesn't buy them (except of the limitation to be able to enter the new areas that are coming with said expansion) in it's gameplay or the main game so it will be a CHOICE not a must allover again.
I know for sure that if expansions come out I would buy them because I would like to experience the extra content and support the company by doing it at the same time.
Most of all since my purchase will help to create additional content for me and add to the game I like to play.
Yes it's a win situation for the company due to the income but it's also a win situation for us cause we are getting more entertainment for our money if and when we choose to.
GW1 had three expansions over it's commercial viability. That started in 2005...
I don't know where you come up with this... But I suspect it doesn't get a lot of sunshine.
Just a small info because you asked:
Blizzard lost 800000 subscriptions with the launch of swtor and dropped even more since then.
They already had lost a lot prior to that which moved them to turn to f2p till a certain level.
Basically, I don't like cash-shop games where it's pay-to-win or they so crush you under 'F2P restrictions' that you're going have to drop far more money than a box-game to make the game reasonably playable.
No they didn't. THey lost 800K subscriptions for the quarter ended September 30th, 2011. Whch was reported November 8th, 2011. More an a MONTH before SWTOR launched.
Blizzard’s flagship game World of Warcraft loses 800K subscribers in Q3
Subscribers for Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft online game have fallen to 10.3 million in the third quarter, the company said today. That’s a dramatic drop from the 11.1 million it had in the second quarter.
http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/08/blizzards-flagship-game-world-of-warcraft-loses-800k-subscribers/
The quarter SWTOR launched, they lost just 100K. And most of those were pre-SWTOR launch.
Activision Blizzard released its fourth quarter earnings report today, and while it was another record breaking quarter for the gaming company, it also revealed the latest World of Warcraft subscription numbers. As of 12/31/11, World of Warcraft has 10.2 million subscribers, down 100k since their last report on Nov 8th.
http://lorehound.com/news/world-of-warcraft-loses-100k-subscribers/
It's far more honest to say that SWTOR had no significant impact on WoW than anything as ludicrous as SWTOR caused WoW to lose 800K subs. Facts. Those darn things always get in the way of a wishful thinking narrative...
Ah. First, you didn't craft 8-slot bags/packs/boxes. That meant you had 36 slots. I had 4 - 8 slot crafted bags which meant I had 52 stots. Second, you probably didn't put things in your vault, which meant you clogged up your bags with crafting mats. There is a whole tab that allows you to stack TONS of crafting mats. Third, you probably didn't break things down often enough. Many 'different' drops give you the same craft material. Jute scraps for example. You can get them from damaged clothing, frayed shoes, etc., etc., etc. I think I ran into four or five different drops that broke-down into Jute scraps. If you don't break them down, you're gonna fill your inventory too fast.
Some combination of these things were probably the root cause your of problem.
Weapons are another. Unless you get something really special or a clear-upgrade to what you have. You break them down to their wood and metal crafting components.
The post was pointless. GW2 cost me exactly what I paid for it and nothing more. All of the things that post tried to complain about are not things you NEED to play the game. People KNEW it would have a cash shop and if they didnt they had thier heads burried in the sand. So saying "well the cash shop has xxx in it which will cost you xxx which means the game will cost more" is a completely moronic statement. If you WANT that stuff you can have it. But its not forced on you which means GW2 cost you exactly what you thought it would.
[quote]makes the cost $202.50 for those 16200 gems. A year’s subscription to WoW is $156 if purchased in six-month blocks, making it ironically cheaper to play a year of WoW than a year of GW2.[/quote]
When these 2 things get fixed within GW2.
1. Overflow putting party members on different servers.
2. Being able to que party members into structured PvP and stay on the same team.
when these are fixed I'd be more then happy to pay $200-$300 to unlock everything mentioned in the OP.
The Game in my book is completely worth every penny and compared to other games that do not deserve a sub fee this game could easily get away with a sub fee and yet they aren't.
Since i'm not forced to spend money to compete in PVP I'm not forced to spend the 200-300 and if I do not spend any more money on the game I still have every ability to play the game I purchased as intended.
That being said, I totally plan on spending what I usually spend on a sub fee into GW2's cash shop and probably even more. Why you might ask? Because the game is worth it!!!
Would knowing that it could, the key word being COULD, could cost me more then a one year sub in a less worthy game effect my desire to play GW2? Not the slightest because those games don't deserve the sub fee to begin with as well if you do not pay the monthly sub you can no longer play their game. GW2 on the other hand makes it an OPTION and does not punish you for not paying.
GW2 has proven its worth and its not even finished yet, BAM!
No, no, dear me, no! Sub game developers tend to try to prolong players' play time in order to keep them subbing longer and thus keep the money coming in. This produces monumental time sinks and repetitive game-play, some of which can be fun the first few times through, and some not. The sub game needs to be killed with fire.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
I'm not defending EA here but they were voted worst company because the voters were ignorant, not because they are actually the worst company.
How many people have they killed while paying off politicians and the EPA to ensure that their operations can continue without interference ?
Sorry for the derail, but even mentioning EA's new "title," weakens rather than strengthens your position.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
sorry but from this is all from a conumer standpoint not a how evil is a company standpoint
One thing to keep in mind here is that I know several people who canceled their renewing subs in anticipation of SWTOR coming out. I don't think this accounts for the 1 mill that left, but I think a sizable portion did move from WoW to SWTOR.
Afraid that such a distinction is a bit silly (in my opinion of course). EA is the worst company in the U.S. if we define, "worst," specificalyl to exclude those involved in much worse business practices from consideration for the title.
And even if we do accept that caveat, only an uninformed (or narrow minded) voter base would allow EA (a company that I dislike myself by the way) to be chosen.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
as a consumer EA is the worst company of any of them. this was done by the consumerist, the distinction is there and thats what it was for.
thats why durring it all there was nothing about EA swallowing up other companies to shut them down, it was how it affected the consumers. now you have to think, EA affected every gamer out there, whereas others are more likely only affecting much less people maybe with bigger effects. and generally those isies were sorted out.
now if you wanted to make it worse in america based on everything... i think ea still is up there overworking people, buyign up smaller places to shut them down or to remove competetors. and excelerating releases which should be relased in time.
If you measure worst company by merely its impact on consumers...how is a company whose sole impact is on games that one may or may not choose to play even in the running ?
As far as, "worst in America based on everyting," a company accellerating product releases or engaged in (excessively ?) aggressive competition is not even in the same league as companies that are killing people for a profit. No offense but do you really place rushing a game's release in the same league as poisoning a child's drinking water ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
of couse not i did not say ea would win on the worset company in america based on everything.
but by a consumer standpoint i would say they win
I didn't mean to set off the thread discussing EA, I meant that if you looked at WHY they were voted that way it was about the relentless drive down in quality and "nickel-and-diming" of consumers for the same products.
Now, back on the thread.
I think the biggest issue with the store isn't the store itself, not at all. I saw very little by way of complaints with GW1. People want to support AreanaNet as they bring value to one's gaming experience. From the BWE weekend, however, what upset most (as covered in the GW Forums) was changing from account based purchases (ala GW1) and going to character based ones. This might not seem like a big deal except ArenaNet already had published that purchases would be account wide, then with first BWE they became character only. THAT is what set many people off and is what made many view what they were doing as a cash grab - and, to be honest, that is exactly what it is, otherwise stuff that was account wide in GW1 would be account wide in GW2. Previous to the BWE, sure they always mentioned it there would be a cash shop and most didn't have issue because of the way GW1 was and the statements about the new dye system and purchases being account wide. Suddenly, all of that changed.
On the official forums, most were vocal in this regard with the dye system (which was OFFICIALLY stated as being account wide, then made character only in beta) and costumes.
Consider in GW1, when you bought a costume it was available to all characters, including new ones you created or, even if you deleted and created a new character. In GW2, for the iteration in the first BWE, this is no longer the case. So now, if you buy the costume (which is the same price as GW1 only per character - which effectively now makes them 5 times the price as GW1), you only get it for one character. If, at a later date you choose to delete that character and create a new one in that slot, you lose the item and must buy it all over again.
In addtion, the desire to drive players to the store has crept into the design of the game itself. They KNOW dyes are popular in MMOs and were popular in GW1. So, they design a silly system were it takes 24 hours to grow one dye color, or you can accelerate it with magic plant food. There is no reason, whatsoever, for a silly design such as this except to try and play to a player's impatience if they enjoy the dye system. Moreover, there is no reason to have a dye pack in the store that gives three random dyes, where they may be duplicates, except to follow the path of collectable card games with people buying 2,000 of the same commons to get that one rare they are looking for.
Sure, we don't HAVE to use the store to get the dyes, but we ALL have to live with a very silly 'grow a color once every 24 hours' as a result. There is no other reason for this design except for the gemshop, and thereby it effects everyone whether they use the store or not. That is a major crux of the issue.
Again, it isn't about the cash shop at all - it was the wide spread change from account wide purchases to character only and the desire to have more people use the store more often creeping into the design of the game overall.
Sure, you can state if you don't want it don't buy it... but ArenaNet wants to sell items from the store, and people want to buy them to support ArenaNet but consumers WON'T buy it if they feel they are blatantly trying to take advantage of them which is EXACTLY what the iteration of the cash shop was in the first BWE (and what was mentioned quite a few times on their forums). Let's see what the second BWE brings to see if they heard the message.
These arguments are well reasoned and well worth consideration. I do not completely agree with all of them, but I too will be watching future beta events (as well as live) for the evolution of this matter.
I believe that per character unlocks generally reduce replay value of a game as the desire to re-unlock something for a second, third, etc character, which one had previously unlocked for your first character, encourages one to focus on a primary main character. Replay value, longevity, are not enhanced by dis-incentivizing playing alts.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Dyes, like all the rest, are NOT mandatory things required to play. And seriously... 24 hours only? Is it that bad, are you in a hurry? If you're going to play this game for months, if not for years, 24 hours to grow a dye is insignificant.
Also, the whole store thing is a choice between time and money. There's nothing in the store you can't get with game gold, and some, like dyes, don't even require game gold, but just patience. And stuff like bags have already been discussed and proved not to be mandatory to play confortably either.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
there are acocunt wide stuff, i beleive the stuff in beta were bag/box slots. and bank upgrades
durring bets i had so many dye seeds... i did not know hwow to use them so isold them off.... but i had so many (20+) i dont think dyes will be too big a problem
Yes, you are correct, they are not mandatory, just like a character name, costumes or different armors isn't mandatory. Heck, everyone in the game should be with the exact same character model, in the exact same armor since we put it that way. But, being it is an RPG, character identity is a BIG part of MMORPGs, and thus why dyes and costumes are always popular regardless of MMO.
And yes 24 hours.... per character.... for 400 dyes... that is 400 days per character times 5 is 2,000 total days (or 5.47 years) to collect dye colors for your account. That is ludicrous from the start and only that way because of the gem shop.
Maybe you might not consider dyes important, but a huge portion of the MMO community does (thus why black dye was so expensive in GW1). Too many, the look of their character is just as important as the game play itself (why else design a dye system with 400 colors). So, if you are a player type that enjoys more of the RPG aspects of an MMORPG, then dyes are mandatory. If you like the MMO past, then stats are mandatory. It all depends on one's view.
Bank upgrades will automatically be account wide, since the bank is account wide. Character slots are of course account wide... the only thing that's character specific is bag slots, but as it has been confirmed by many people here, they are definitely not required to confortably play the game. The only persons which had bag space problems where those who didn't understand that you can send crafting materials directly to your bank from anywhere.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I value character customization options like dyes as much as anyone else, I'm actually an old school player who plays these games since UO and before, when they weren't all about collecting purple gear from raid bosses, but more about community and RPG.
Dyes are important, having all 400 dyes is not. Actually, the basic choice of colors coming with all characters already allow a huge amount of customizations, armor/clothes having 2 or 3 different colors. Actually, not being able to have the 400 dyes on all chars in a couple of months means you have always something to look forward to.
And as I said, the dye kits from the gem shop aren't that expensive - you can also buy them with game gold.
I'm one of the biggest skeptics when it comes to cash shops, but I have a hard time to find anything wrong with this one, unless it drastically changes between now and release.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Calculation isn't biased in the slightest. Yes, you can grow 5 per day, but that doesn't change the total number of days needed at all. Even at 5 per day, per character slot you still need 2,000 total days (400 per character), which is still 400 days per character (as I metioned) which is 1.1 years per character. Still an awful lot of time assuming you log in every single days for 13 months. There is no single collection grind this intense in all of MMO land.
And none of it changes the fact that this is all driven, design wise, by the cash shop. Otherwise, we would have the standard drop and use in every other MMO (including GW1).
The root of what I was saying earlier, whether you use the shop or not, whether they are expensive or not, whether they are madatory or not, none of it matters. What matters is this design concept is solely in the game in it's current iteration as a result of the gem shop. That is what I meant earlier about a store effecting the design of the game. No one has to use the store, but everyone has to live with the silly grow a color once a day design as a result.