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Guild War 2 Might Cost you more than you think
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Ok, firstly B2B is actually called B2P. Judging by the amount of typos in the post, I'm guessing a tablet or smartphone....or fatfinger syndrome.
B2P - Buy the game and play. You MUST purchase the client, either by direct 2 drive or retail boxed product. Console games are B2P. Single player games are B2P.
F2P - Freeware client/game that requires no money to obtain and no money to play. Usually paid for via cash shops and/or advertising. If you need an example look no further than google.
GW2 - You have to pay for the game. You pay for it by direct to drive or retail boxed unit. Because you've exchanged cash for the client, you've bought the game to play the game........aka B2P. I believe your confusing yourself because there's no further required payments, like you would get with a F2P model. A game doesn't move from a B2P model into a F2P model while still charging new customers for the client. This isn't the X-Files, there are no hybrids here.
So, GW2 is a B2P business model with an optional cash/gem shop available.
"most F2P games ( if not freemium) dont have a sub" - All F2P games don't have a sub. If they have a sub they become a P2P game. (pay to play)
"lot of F2P games have no lock. because it is not universal solid defined, what a lock means" - I believe the other poster was talking in regards to a restriction on access, i.e. only being able to level to 20 in WoW.
"and i am fine with that." - And we're fine with the B2P discription, which happens to also be the description A.Net has given it. Yet, you still seem intent to convince us that your right and we're wrong.
I can't make it any clearer than that.
And you know this from personal experience? Or are you just speculating? You have played all of the content from the game and can ensure me I will not have to spend any more then the box cost?
Honestly, I don't have any strong feelings about the cash shop either positive OR negative, but I do have to say to THIS comment.....WoW SHOULD be cheaper to play, it's a freakin' dinosaur. Newer games are eventually going to come with newer prices. That's pretty much how life works with some rare exceptions. Prices go up.
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Once again, what is your personal definition of 'competitive'.
I don't see myself needing or wanting anything in there since I prefer their WvW and will just enjoy myself. You think there are things you need? Pay 'em.
Your questions are not to get information but to try to proove a point, which is irrelevant. You pay nothing a month and can play all the way to 80, get everything you need without paying a cent in the cs.
If you absolutely need that xp boost or fluff pet, or extra character slot to feel like you're playing the whole game, remember. You can still buy the gems with ingame gold, thus still not paying a cent of RL money, so again the debate is moot.
Here is the thing, though.
ArenaNet is charging for the game, it is not F2P. They are trying to have both their cake and eat it too here. I would rather they dump the cash shop altogether and just charge for the game ith a sub price.
However, they are most likely going to have the game price plus cash shop. That's fine, but nickel-and-diming players on "character only" buys versus "account wide" reeks of gouging and with it, ArenaNet's well thought off reputation will go in the pooper in a big way. Just ask Turbine about this.
I bought the pre-purchase, I played the BWE, I depise what they are doing with the cash shop as it stood in the first BWE and think if it goes forward like this, the game is going to suffer.
your one mistake is trying to compare GW2 to other MMO.. there arent any other B2P MMOs besides Anet's own GW1. If you must compare it to get the correct pay model think single player games like Skyrim.. you buy it, play it/own it forever and later you can buy more stuff for it if you want like DLC/expansions.
ok that and saying B2B is really annoying as its your own made up thing
why? you dont need the cash shop AT ALL, there is nothing in that cash shop you require in order to play and be like everyone else in terms of lvl of gear, ect. Plus don't forget you can buy those items via in game gold if you REALLY want them and don't want to pay any money. I think you are probably the sort of person that gets angry at the grocery store checkout because you buy a bunch of gum and candy.
I don't see it that way. Now if they were going to have the cash shop and a monthly sub then I would agree with your sentiment.
Not that I'm a huge proponent of some items in the shop. Until we know for sure what will be in play though I'm staying out of the subject. Hope you made your concerns known to Anet. Hopefully if enough do and agree with some things you find problematic it will move them to change those items.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Doesn't work this way, at least in initial BWE.
You get 20 backpack + 4 slot bag (three times) plus your 30 bank slots are ACCOUNT WIDE (not thirty per character), so with 5 characters you start with a default of 6 slots per character.
You can expand you bag slots (for four slot bags) by buying more in the cash shop. You can expand your four slot bags up to 20 slot bags by buying expansion per bag per character) in the cash shop. You can expand you bank space by buying additional slots from the cash shop.
Plus you paid for the game. This is just bad taste all around.
And sure, you can use in game gold except that money seems to be very sparse at the moment in game.
I really, really hope that ANet considers the negative ramifications of what they are doing here.
BTW, not for nothing, they have now sold product under false pretense. While they state on their blog that dye are account-wide they are not. This was not clarified prior to selling a product and taking real cash for it. Hope none of those sales were from Europe because that is in fact a violation of consumer-protection laws there.
Sorry but games like WoW are the ones that want both their cake and eat it too. They have a sub game and a CS that charges real money for items you CANNOT get ingame. You want to label greed, aim in the right direction.
that and no one that matters ever said GW2 was F2P... its B2P end of story >.<
... so you're saying rather than having the game cost a box with purely optional purchases that you can play as long as the game exists...
... you'd prefer for us to pay for the box and then have a mandatory 15 dollars a month until we stop paying, at which point they take the game away from us?
I'm really, really, really glad you're not in charge of Arenanet, because I think that is a horrible idea.
Also, are you REALLY sure you looked at the cash shop? Most players won't need more than 5 characters, and even if you go up to 8, that's only 30 dollars (2 months subscription)
The bank pages ARE account wide actually...
... only the bags are on a per-character basis, and maybe you didn't notice, but the bag spaces in the game are already equal to other games like Rift, Aion, WoW and the like. It's not 'pay money so your bag storage is up to par', it's 'pay money so you have more bag storage than usual'. In a game that has remarkably efficient bag storage, doesn't have a ton of unique junk drops, allows you to salvage things, allows you to send materials directly to your bank, and has teleports so that vendors are never more than a click away.
If you played the BWE, you either didn't understand the bag/banking/material system, you're a horrifying packrat (And your complaint in every other MMO is 'I wish they'd give me more bag storage'... with the key difference being this time you can actually pay for it if you're one of those habitual packrats), or you just like complaining and can't remember what it was like to play other MMOs.
I think that actually sums up the whole cash/gem shop activist movement. They're convinced they will, from the start or later on, be FORCED to make a purchase. They can't grasp the fact that impulse buys (like your candy/gum) actually make a ton of money, more than enough to maintain servers.
/facepalm that scenario is the max number of slots bags offer.. of course you wont have that at low lvls! Especially not when ever crafter is low lvl too. I would say that 75-85% of bags will come from crafters and will be lower price than the vendors. Also dont forget that you can easily collect the mats a crafter need to make bags and tip them instead of buying the bags from the AH. I was crafting like mad, 2 tradeskills and my 20+8+8+8+8 was great, I didnt even use the bank until I was storing old mats.
Or maybe perhaps some believe that a cash shop no matter how fluffy it is results in every increasing amounts of developer time being spent developing more cash shop items instead of fixing bugs or releasing new content? Na, that couldn't be a concern could it? And if you believe that companies keep their cash shop developers and other content developers seperate or that cash shops result in more free content being made for a game have I got a investment deal for you.
You can't buy 20 slot bags in the cash shop.
You get 20 slot bags through crafting, vendors or drops. Just like almost any other MMORPG. Other MMORPGs where you have 4 slots to put extra bags in (Name the MMORPG that starts you off with backpack + 7 extra bag slots right away) generally.
ALSO, materials and ingredients and miniatures all have their own dedicated slots in the bank. Yeah, 30 slots doesn't seem like a WHOLE lot, until you realize that a pretty decent portion of what normally clutters up storage (Miniatures!) (Crafting cruft!) doesn't actually take up your bank storage.
ALSO, you can pretend you have a subscription, and within a few months of spending 15 dollars, you'll have run out of bank pages to buy, AND you can still play the game until the servers finally go down, with no more need to buy bank slots.
haha ty, been trying to drill that in folks heads.. perhaps my first real job at 7-Eleven had a purpose! =P TBH I was worried when the first cash shop leaks came... totally have no issues with it at all now after having played with the items and knowing what I personally will want and other ways to get those items.
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I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
come on... really? Do you really think it takes a lot of time to make s cooks outfit? The way they have it.. the only items they could add that MIGHT take dev time really doesnt take much time at all.. cosmetic stuff. I would think WoW's sparkle Pony took WAY more time and its neverending list of new and improved versions.
Bah, you guys can go round and round with that argument more than factions in Warhammer merry go rounded keeps in RvR.
They'll just argue those items allow for them to keep more staff on hand and allow for quicker bug fixes, updates, and content. You could make an argument either way far as that focal point goes. Neither side is inherently wrong. Boils down to the company behind the product and what they do with the income that decides whether one side ends up being right or not. Varies from what I have seen.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not only that but most stuff in there is already in the game so they already checked their use, mechanics etc. It's not like adding something that didn't exist before.
You're right, adding a new skin takes little effort, so that argument is flawed at best.
the fun for me is in the exploration and crafting ect. Example: a friend of mine loves farming.. the grindy type.. for hours.. UGG! I was really worried about him not liking GW2 because of this. Then I played BWE and I worked on crafting.. and realized he will make a ton on trophies(the blue items mobs drop used in crafting) and mats from salvaging gear just like in GW1. No worry at all now for him.. will I do this? Hell no! I will focus on what I like.. If you can't find something to make you like the game then I dunno.. perhaps its just not for you or you don't play with the right ppl.. or maybe you have outgrown games. You will have to decide what is fun for you.
Almost every single one of you has missed the point. Keep you defense up and watch what happens over time.
I don't have a problem with the cash shop, it was implemented well in GW1. I DO have a problem that they have changed things to character only (when they used to be account wide or they have already stated they were account wide). Except for the bank space, which at starting 30 slots for 5 characters is paltry.
I've heard every one of these defenses before... you don't have to buy the stuff (until they make things such a pain in the butt without buying something from the store), you can use in game gold (until you can't earn enough to buy the aforementioned), your just whining, etc.
So, no, this isn't about gum and candy, it is about history with these cash shops and how they ultimately end up wrecking a damn good game as the quest for stuff in the store to make everyone buy it trashes the game development in favor of building grinds and ruining enjoyment in the game that can be avoided by adding stuff to the store.
Being able to level faster is in itself an advantage. But if you are not leveling like it was a competition it will not be P2W. Of course if me and my friend are really competing trying to be first to max level the xp potions will be P2W for us. Because it depends on your goal and on what you are doing. Perhaps me and my friend often start playing new MMO:s togethet and always compete leveling as fast as possible to max lv. And if I win he will have to buy me a drink... Being able to grind faction faster is also an advantage. And also a potion that helps you improve your crafting.
Perhaps you only think PvP is important. But you can never know what odd goals other players may have. And in what ways other players want to compete. I mean in a MMORPG, even if its a themepark, there are a lot of different things we can do. And we can focus on whatever part of the game or its virtual world we think is fun. PvP, leveling fast, crafting, faction grinding, exploring and more... It is a mistake to think there is only one way to play the game. And that people not playing like that are doing it wrong. I think understanding that is really what it takes to see "the big picture".
Perhaps you would think a potion that helped you win in PvP is a P2W item. But not a potion that improves your crafting. A hardcore crafter that never PVP would not agree...
Suppose your tin-foil hat predictions are true AND people end up spending $15.00 a month in the shop. It's a push compared to a $15.00 monthly sub which I am very willing to pay. Even a bit higher than that would be ok. Even they know they can't push it too far as people are watching their money in this economy.
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