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Did Arenanet provide evolutionary, revolutionary, and paradigm shifting design?
Roybe
Member UncommonPosts: 420
Evolutionary: Of or relating to or produced by a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage
Revolutionary: Markedly new or introducing fundamental change
Pardigm Shift: a change in the basic assumptions within the ruling theory of science. (i.e. flat earth shifting to spherical earth, geocentric orbit changed to heliocentric orbit) This idea has also come to be used colloquially to mean changes that once implemented, do not allow for backtracking, since the new way of doing things is so much better that no one would want to do things the old way again. Think about having a camera, phone, and music player as one device compared to carrying around a camera, a phone, and a walkman separately...you could do this, but why would you?
The MMO community seems to have issues with the use of these terms when discussing Guild Wars 2. I'm hoping that by defining the 3 terms that seem to be causing the issue, we can all come to agreement that Arenanet took evolutionary steps in the genre of MMORPG's, to introduce a revolutionary product, that should, if accepted by the MMO gaming community, create a paradigm shift.
First we have to agree on the supposition that an MMO will always be an MMO. That means the game exists within a given environment, with an overarching story, and that large numbers of people in the game play in such a way as to discover the overarching story through participation.
MMO's evolved over time and introduced some interesting, but problematic issues into the game type. When World of Warcraft hit the scene it was obvious that their game was evolutionary in it's smoothness and systems, borrowing from previous games and improving significantly upon the designs, which resulted in revolutionary gameplay. The pardigm shift Blizzard created, not obviously apparent, enshrined the toxic behaviors within the overall system that have become associated with MMO's. Reward systems (whether loot based, character based (leveling), or competitive based (PvP), have issues related to grind (the repetitive play of a particular feature to receive a particular reward), player griefing (in game play this can be considered anything anti-social and abusive), and/or 'theft' (this can be related to either fraudulent exploits of other people, stealing someones reward of time and/or effort invested (including kill stealing, Player Killing (PK'ers steal peoples time at a minimum) etc.), as well as real life hacking of accounts). Add to these problems, the overarching problem of game developers and publishers, building in any of the above within their game with the express purpose of maintaining monthly subscription fee and it should come as no surprise that the MMO playing field became more and more toxic to an increasing number of players over time.
All the GW2 development team did was ask, 'Why are people unhappy in these games?” and 'Is it possible to remove many of these issues, while providing a fun experience for all the various types of players in these types of games?' Thus GW1 was born. By using a model of highly instanced play areas and separated PvP, we, as players, saw a nice community being built around the lack of what many consider the reasons to play an MMORPG. As this experiment grew, Arenanet started looking at making a true MMORPG, with the same lack of toxic issues.
This brings us to the above questions. Yes, Arenanet did take many items from many games and include them into theirs. It's my suggestion that this is where evolution comes about. It's not necessary to reinvent a wheel, but it is better to make it out of rubber than wood.
The genius of this group of designers was a creation of a MMORPG game system WITH a planned goal of removing toxic play. Their realization, definition, and removal of what is toxic in current MMORPG's, while still creating a fun and challenging environment to play in for the vast MAJORITY of MMO players is Arenanet's revolutionary change.
Will this become the pardigm shift that everyone is waiting for? That will require a crystal ball at this moment. I don't have one of those. This is business. Business is run by profit margins. This could very well be a huge game changer in the genre of MMORPG's IF the sales of the release, subsequent expansions, and the cash shop, generate the profit levels of the monster MMO's of the past. This will create outright copying of the games design and we'll see gw2 clones everywhere. If it does 'alright', then further evolutions based on it are definitely going to occur, as companies strive for the success of past MMO's. If GW2 fails to capture a significant part of the market? It's just another footnote in the dearth of MMORPG companies that wish they had done something else. For many people, if this game does not become the 20'teens' version of WoW, the game will have failed in their eyes. I'm not amongst that crowd. However, I do think that for a game that is trying to bring originality back to a genre that has moved so far towards cookie cutter systems, I give them huge amounts of thanks (as well as $$$ for the CE!).
TL;DR Arenanet's revolutionary idea was to remove toxic gameplay from the MMORPG gamespace, utilizing ideas from many games including other MMORPG's, with the expectation of bringing out a game that is more fun, healthier, and more profitable than other games in the genre.
Comments
I have pre-purchased and enjoy GW2, but I for some reason fear the "toxic gameplay" they removed may have been what gave MMORPGs their staying power. I hope it works out, but am still skeptical.
No.
Your spot on, good write up.
It reminds me of what I'm seeing around me in regards to the recession, new ideas and different ways of looking at the problem, are finnally comming out. Many of those ideas are very Un-Orthodox, but they had no choice, the economy is dying.
Same thing with the MMO market, it was dying slowly but surely. Eventually someone was going to look at the problem with a fresh perspective, it happend to be Anet, and they did a great job.
I don't attempt to answer these question until I have been playing the game for 1-2 months.
I couldn't get past your "definitions". DIdn't anybody ever tell you that you can't use the word in the definition of the word?
I said much the same thing here before, but it got entirely ignored - so I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen to you, too.
My thought on the matter was that yes, on one hand this kind of thinking is revolutionary (for the MMO industry at least), but I still don't understand why it took so long for developers to finally adopt an attitude of "MMO's should be fun, too!"
GW2 might be revolutionary, but it shouldn't be.
IMO GW2 is just over-reted and over-hyped. I bought pre-order, played beta and I didn't like it. It doesn't matter if it is revolutionary or not. At the end of the day is about whether ppl will play it or not. I know I don't like it and I regret spending 60 dollars or so on GW2.
those weren't his definitions, those were dictionary definitions. And yes, the root word can most definitely be part of the definition of a conjugated word... unless you were referring to paradigm insead of evolution, in which case it was present for the purpose of defining a paradigm within the larger definition of "paradigm shift"...
Either way, get over yourself.
Not sure where your'e coming from there...please be specific...i'll address the definition in question and repair if possible...
When people say these types of things, I question the validity of your statements. If you are going to go out of you way and off-topic to saying "I didn't like it", at least give some justification in your post. Make your post matter, saying "I don't like it" doesn't give anything to discuss. I'm not sure why you posted on the Guild Wars 2 forums, went into a thread debating the application of revolutionary and other terms to GW2, and then proceeded to make a post that was off-topic and simple minded. If you are going to say something, at least try to appear intelligent.
My Guild Wars 2 Blog can be found here: Divinity's Reach
Evolutionary: Of or relating to or produced by evolution
Revolutionary: Markedly new or introducing fundamental change
Pardigm Shift: a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms...
I think's he referencing how you use evolution in the definition of evolutionary and pardigm in Pradigm shift. Just replace evolution with adaptation and remove paradigm and leave basic assumption. Your definitions however, did not make your post unreadable. I found myself agreeing with most of your statements. I think GW2 was a logical evolution from GW1 and for the MMO genre. I'm putting my money on Guild Wars 2, but I would agree that we just don't know whether the game will be successful or not at this point, and all ideas on the matter are mere speculation.
My Guild Wars 2 Blog can be found here: Divinity's Reach
Look closely at the poster.
- Low post count
- Posted only positive Tera posts
- Posted two almost identical anti-GW2 posts (the one you quoted, and the post yesterday in the Tera forum)
I think you can draw your own conclusions from there...
The Enlightened take things Lightly
Repaired...not sure for the better..but hey, I'm looking for definitions we can agree on...otherwise the thread means nothing.
You seem to be leaving out the largest part of what a paradigm shift is or does. It is not used for entertainment to describe the next big thing. It is a scientific term applied generally to advances in physical science, medicine, technology etc etc that profoundly and forever change and alter society.
Paradigm Shift
Read it.
See examples cited? These are no on the same level as a video game.
Also notice the section:
Marketing:
In the later part of the 1990s, 'paradigm shift' emerged as a buzzword, popularized as marketing speak and appearing more frequently in print and publication.[8] In his book, Mind The Gaffe, author Larry Trask advises readers to refrain from using it, and to use caution when reading anything that contains the phrase. It is referred to in several articles and books[9][10] as abused and overused to the point of becoming meaningless.
Well, consider it's changing the way MMOs play so much that I simply can't go back to playing the archaic MMO formula anymore. No more static worlds and stationary quest givers, no more trinity locking you into a role, no more fighting against other players in PvE instead of with them. No more boring ass combat or dead, uninteresting cities. No more being forced to slow travel back to a town to unload my storage, or even having to travel at all if I don't want to just yet! No more involuntary PvP screwing up the PvE world.
So yeah... it's going to prove to be genre changing. It's inevitable. Worlds are going to come alive. People will be free to explore off the rails. Instead of you seeking content, the content will find you. PvP will be truly competitive or be grandoise in scale. You'll start to look forwards to other players showing up in your area. You might even show them where the ore node you just mined is, just to help them out.
Yeah, it's that good.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I do believe I explained the difference between the proper use and the colloquial use. One author's opinion does not change usage.
Colloquialism is a term used to describe slang or jargon. Not for the minimizing or demeaning of a term.
for some reason i dont believe in many guys that say they pre-order (i suppose they mean pre-purchase but for some reason many say pre-order!!) really buy the game.
you could prove that easy. you have acess to official forum right?
I don't know, but after playing BWE, it sure is hard to go back to other games.
Tera is good, but only because the combat is awesome. The rest of the game is the same old, same old.
same here.
i agree to with Tera combat was good and fun (the graphics were amazing , but i hate the characters) the problem is the rest. in the rest i feel was like any wow clone, nothing diferent except the good combat system and the amazing graphics
You really have to becareful about how you describe the definition of a "Paradigm Shift". After all, its real purpose is not to show what has occured through evolution, but what unproven facts (theories) are now held as the current beliefs of the majority as a whole.
Just because a theory takes the place of a previous theory, doesn't make it a better more evolved one. It is essentially like comparing fads that fade with time as they are replaced with new ones. One fad is never better than another if those who view the fads are always equally viewing them in the same light as previous ones.
In short.. Paradigm Shift does not equal evolution.
Who cares? The game is doing something no studio has had the balls to do and it's turning out to be a fun ride. I don't need it to wash my clothes or teach me algebra.
There is so much wrong with this. If you haven't played, and at this point i'm CERTAIN you haven't, then you wouldn't make such an asanine statement. They took ideas and evolved them. I guarantee nothing is "copied". Fine, you don't like it. Move the hell on please.
Yes, Yes and Yes.
Some features are evolutions of MMO design, some are revolutionary and the entire package makes it impossible for those who embrace the game to ever go back to the way things were before. How much of the MMO gaming population will make the paradigm shift and how many will miss it? I don't know, but the game will completely alter the expections that many will have for all MORPGs moving forward and I predict the game will have a huge impact on MMORPG design for years to come.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
