SWTOR has zero impact on my consideration of TSW. I wouldn't have bought SWTOR without a free beta and the same goes for TSW. At this point TSW is off my radar because it's made by Failcom.
The reason EA/BW said PvP was such a big deal is because that was the entire game for most players
I'd wager most players quit, actually.
It has been 6 months so likely, I'm playing Tera and D3 now, the ones who where there played warzones over and over because all raids could be knocked out in a couple hours and hard modes gave lesser gear. One thing I did notice is that there was low attrition from the hard core players on my SWTOR server that just played a lot but they would warzone 5-10 hours a day. TSW seems interesting but I doubt it has anything SWTOR doesn't to keep players.
I think TSW will be a good game and Funcom will actually pull off a decent launch. That being said - the style of game it is may not appeal to a large audience.
It has been 6 months so likely, I'm playing Tera and D3 now, the ones who where there played warzones over and over because all raids could be knocked out in a couple hours and hard modes gave lesser gear.
No, my point is, the majority of the playerbase (the casuals) never reached max level. In fact, many probably just dropped the game.
It has been 6 months so likely, I'm playing Tera and D3 now, the ones who where there played warzones over and over because all raids could be knocked out in a couple hours and hard modes gave lesser gear.
No, my point is, the majority of the playerbase (the casuals) never reached max level. In fact, many probably just dropped the game.
Doubt it SWTOR's leveling was much better than any MMO's leveling so far. For sure many quit but certainly a smaller percent than any other MMO, most the people who quit from my guild were at level cap. 3-5 days to max level, companions, a solid story less you play jedi consular like I did. If any game was tailered to casuals from day 1, SWTOR is it. The forums didn't have anything negative about leveling it was all level cap issues. It was a good bet any player that hit level cap would quit within 1-2 weeks.
I don't see quiting before cap a negative, in Everquest and Aion many players quit before the cap but both those games had loads of subscribers.
Doubt it SWTOR's leveling was much better than any MMO's leveling so far. For sure many quit but certainly a smaller percent than any other MMO, most the people who quit from my guild were at level cap. 3-5 days to max level, companions, a solid story less you play jedi consular like I did. If any game was tailered to casuals from day 1, SWTOR is it. The forums didn't have anything negative about leveling it was all level cap issues. It was a good bet any player that hit level cap would quit within 1-2 weeks.
I don't see quiting before cap a negative, in Everquest and Aion many players quit before the cap but both those games had loads of subscribers.
Heh. I feel tempted to repost this post of yours in the SWTOR section of this site or the official forums, to see how much of the (ex) SWTOR playerbase agrees with your 'there were no problems in SWTOR before level cap'
As for EQ and Aion, EQ had a massive level grind, it took easily 1000-1500+ hrs to reach level cap. So yeah, I agree that people often didn't reach level cap before quitting, and since in that time you only had like 3-5 MMO's in total to pick from, people tend to stick longer with the first MMO ever they had played. As for Aion, it had loads of subs in the east, Asia. Western sub numbers dropped rapidly within months. I know that most of the friends and guildies I started playing AIon with quit Aion around L20-35, at that time the repetitive and thus boring level grind became too much for many.
At least for me (and I guess many others) an important reason to stick to an mmo has a lot to do with community and how much you are part of it once the game starts getting repetitive / there is little new to discover (at some point every MMO does). It might have been the setting, combat, quests, graphics... that made me give a new mmo a try, but if there was no good reason to interact with other players or no content for larger groups I soon lost intrest. Otherwise there are usually better single-player or coop-titles with respect to almost everything else. Even though I fully support titles to offer much content to solo-players and casual players, there needs to be some element in the game that really connects the players imho. This is something you cannot really pin to a specific game mechanic and we'll see soon enough how TSW works out. If there is a strong story aspect that has more focus on the single player it's nothing I'd worry about, as long as the game doesn't end there. I see a fair amount of potential - the args, pvp seem to provide something for the server community and instances sound challanging enough to make proper group play important (and hence you cannot rush it with random people without any need of communication). I don't think it will be possible to properly make any predictions on that aspect in the beta since most players focus their attention on the features of the game and less on their co-players.
Doubt it SWTOR's leveling was much better than any MMO's leveling so far. For sure many quit but certainly a smaller percent than any other MMO, most the people who quit from my guild were at level cap. 3-5 days to max level, companions, a solid story less you play jedi consular like I did. If any game was tailered to casuals from day 1, SWTOR is it. The forums didn't have anything negative about leveling it was all level cap issues. It was a good bet any player that hit level cap would quit within 1-2 weeks.
I don't see quiting before cap a negative, in Everquest and Aion many players quit before the cap but both those games had loads of subscribers.
Heh. I feel tempted to repost this post of yours in the SWTOR section of this site or the official forums, to see how much of the (ex) SWTOR playerbase agrees with your 'there were no problems in SWTOR before level cap'
As for EQ and Aion, EQ had a massive level grind, it took easily 1000-1500+ hrs to reach level cap. So yeah, I agree that people often didn't reach level cap before quitting, and since in that time you only had like 3-5 MMO's in total to pick from, people tend to stick longer with the first MMO ever they had played. As for Aion, it had loads of subs in the east, Asia. Western sub numbers dropped rapidly within months. I know that most of the friends and guildies I started playing AIon with quit Aion around L20-35, at that time the repetitive and thus boring level grind became too much for many.
But we'll see.
repost it, SWTOR and Aion are still the second and third most played MMOs in the west, well anything outside of asia. By a large margin then it is eve online which claimed 400,000 subs this year. Earlier today my brother mentioned Heros of Newerth but I'm not sure what type of game it is, it's around Eve pop wise.
TSW hopes to out perform Eve for an entire year, no easy feat so they better have a solid game and something enticing players to stay above and beyond what SWTOR has as they wont start with 2 million + box sales.
Doubt it SWTOR's leveling was much better than any MMO's leveling so far. For sure many quit but certainly a smaller percent than any other MMO, most the people who quit from my guild were at level cap. 3-5 days to max level, companions, a solid story less you play jedi consular like I did. If any game was tailered to casuals from day 1, SWTOR is it. The forums didn't have anything negative about leveling it was all level cap issues. It was a good bet any player that hit level cap would quit within 1-2 weeks.
I don't see quiting before cap a negative, in Everquest and Aion many players quit before the cap but both those games had loads of subscribers.
Heh. I feel tempted to repost this post of yours in the SWTOR section of this site or the official forums, to see how much of the (ex) SWTOR playerbase agrees with your 'there were no problems in SWTOR before level cap'
As for EQ and Aion, EQ had a massive level grind, it took easily 1000-1500+ hrs to reach level cap. So yeah, I agree that people often didn't reach level cap before quitting, and since in that time you only had like 3-5 MMO's in total to pick from, people tend to stick longer with the first MMO ever they had played. As for Aion, it had loads of subs in the east, Asia. Western sub numbers dropped rapidly within months. I know that most of the friends and guildies I started playing AIon with quit Aion around L20-35, at that time the repetitive and thus boring level grind became too much for many.
But we'll see.
repost it, SWTOR and Aion are still the second and third most played MMOs in the west, well anything outside of asia. By a large margin then it is eve online which claimed 400,000 subs this year. Earlier today my brother mentioned Heros of Newerth but I'm not sure what type of game it is, it's around Eve pop wise.
TSW hopes to out perform Eve for an entire year, no easy feat so they better have a solid game and something enticing players to stay above and beyond what SWTOR has as they wont start with 2 million + box sales.
If customization is your thing, you will be hooked. No two toons will ever be a like.
If customization is your thing, you will be hooked. No two toons will ever be a like.
Not sure if you're talking about TSW, but if you are, then you're simply wrong.
All toons converge to the same thing, since you can learn all abilities. The customization you're referring to is just the proficiencies, but the proficiencies are somewhat trivialized after the first point, so it's really just a < 20% difference in damage/healing/mitigation at the end.
I'm sure you could grasp straws and say that that is indeed some form of customization and you'd be right, but .. you'd never have any incentive to roll a different toon, because it would still play exactly the same.
Even if everyone unlocks all abilities (and that's a big if) the difference comes from the fact that you can only use 7 active and 7 passive at the same time.
It's not like you can run around with hotbars with 515 slots on them and use all abilities at all times.
The customization comes from peoples builds. While I wouldn't go as far as saying that every character will be a special and unique snowflake, there is absolutely a lot of room for customization and differentiating yourself from others.
Originally posted by dubyahite @simplyawfulEven if everyone unlocks all abilities (and that's a big if) the difference comes from the fact that you can only use 7 active and 7 passive at the same time. It's not like you can run around with hotbars with 515 slots on them and use all abilities at all times. The customization comes from peoples builds. While I wouldn't go as far as saying that every character will be a special and unique snowflake, there is absolutely a lot of room for customization and differentiating yourself from others.
there are two sides to this. yes, the customization is there. you can make your favorite little snowflake build and quest around, rp, etc. You can even give some obscure builds a go in pvp just to mess with people (which I will be doing from time to time hehe)
But this freedom also swings the other way in the shape of crazy hard group pve content. Theres a reason everyone has access to every ability and can change their decks easily: you're gonna have to in order to get past otherwise impossible boss encounters. If you're a hardcore raider, this game is going to challenge your group composition skills probably more than most mmos out there. You will have your problem solving skills tested more than your twitch skills. Sure there will be plenty of visual cues to surviving. But most of the tougher content will have your group or raid shuffling and reshuffling your decks and approaching fights from different angles til you get it right. This is the first time Ive actually looked forward to a raid since Karazahn.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Even if everyone unlocks all abilities (and that's a big if) the difference comes from the fact that you can only use 7 active and 7 passive at the same time.
It's not like you can run around with hotbars with 515 slots on them and use all abilities at all times.
The customization comes from peoples builds. While I wouldn't go as far as saying that every character will be a special and unique snowflake, there is absolutely a lot of room for customization and differentiating yourself from others.
Not true again, because you can swap between decks at any time. The only real customization is SP and it's not really as deep as it was in Anarchy Online with IP either.
I'm glad it's there, it's just that the focus is different. It's more like you're supposed to play whatever you want at any time without restriction, instead of being confined to a single role like in typical MMOs.
The benefit is that you can do whatever you want/need to experience content. The drawback is that there is no replayability.
Yep. I couldn't be happier about that side of things.
I'm a raid/guild leader and I love to be presented with a challenge like that. I love the logistics of making sure we have everything we need and making decisions on the fly and having to adapt to some unperceived problem we come accross.
Having this system around is going to be quite challenging to coordinate, and I honestly think it is going to require input from the entire group when these situations pop up.
People are going to have to speak up and say "hey guys we wiped on this three times, I think I can tweak my build here and do this thing that will help us" while leaders are going to have a lot to keep track of as far as how people can spec and what skills they unlocked etc.
It sure beats "ok we have a warrior, a priest, some mel
Well first of all, decks are the premade builds are they not? You don't even have to use them.
Second, just because you can use all skills doesn't mean everyone will be good a every build. Someone doesn't become a good tank or healer simply because they spec for it. And really there are plenty of people that don't want to do that. Most people just want to dps. There are a large variety of dps builds in this game for everyone. Assuming decent balance then people won't have to run around with the same build.
Third, I don't believe the premise that everyone will have all skills. I do believe that it will take a decent time investment to acquire everything. Skills come slower later in the game from what I have heard and I expect a significant amount of grinding to get everything.
Most players are not going to attempt to unlock everything for a long time, and those that do will still have a few things they like.
Noone is going to use every build possible all the time. Thats crazy.
This isn't even taking gear into account. I may have a good hammer and shotgun set, but have no gear for elemental/rifles. I'm not going to run around usin ele/rifle allthe time because the guy with gear will be better at it, or whatever.
Anyways, if you don't believe this game has customization, then that's fine. I honestly don't know what it will be like either when the game comes out.
You seem to think everyone will have every skill and everyone will want to use every build, switching between them all the time. I think that is incorrect but we shall see.
The shadow of.....SWTOR!!!! Duh duh duuuuuuuh..........
But Im sorry to say I do see TSW being a niche game at best. And I think it will do fine for awhile. I just dont think its going to be groundbreaking. Fans of the game should have a fairly good time with it for at least a year if not longer.
Well first of all, decks are the premade builds are they not? You don't even have to use them.
Second, just because you can use all skills doesn't mean everyone will be good a every build. Someone doesn't become a good tank or healer simply because they spec for it. And really there are plenty of people that don't want to do that. Most people just want to dps. There are a large variety of dps builds in this game for everyone. Assuming decent balance then people won't have to run around with the same build.
Third, I don't believe the premise that everyone will have all skills. I do believe that it will take a decent time investment to acquire everything. Skills come slower later in the game from what I have heard and I expect a significant amount of grinding to get everything.
Most players are not going to attempt to unlock everything for a long time, and those that do will still have a few things they like.
Noone is going to use every build possible all the time. Thats crazy.
This isn't even taking gear into account. I may have a good hammer and shotgun set, but have no gear for elemental/rifles. I'm not going to run around usin ele/rifle allthe time because the guy with gear will be better at it, or whatever.
Anyways, if you don't believe this game has customization, then that's fine. I honestly don't know what it will be like either when the game comes out.
You seem to think everyone will have every skill and everyone will want to use every build, switching between them all the time. I think that is incorrect but we shall see.
The developers stated that the red was the intent.
With only 7 active abilities, it's pretty easy to do anything in this game in terms of combat. The only challenge is in the building of skill decks, but that's just a little bit of research just like it was in Anarchy Online
Everyone will eventually get all skills. That is why quests are repeatable, it's essentially how you progress through the game instead of leveling traditionally. The developers even said that there was progression, but it was much "flatter" than in most other games because of it.
So yeah.. not sure what you expect from the game, but it's pretty clear that they went for a game without dedicated roles given you can swap between them readily and learn them all. The specialization points are there to make you a unique snowflake, but ... as of right now they are kind of minor.
Well first of all, decks are the premade builds are they not? You don't even have to use them.
Second, just because you can use all skills doesn't mean everyone will be good a every build. Someone doesn't become a good tank or healer simply because they spec for it. And really there are plenty of people that don't want to do that. Most people just want to dps. There are a large variety of dps builds in this game for everyone. Assuming decent balance then people won't have to run around with the same build.
Third, I don't believe the premise that everyone will have all skills. I do believe that it will take a decent time investment to acquire everything. Skills come slower later in the game from what I have heard and I expect a significant amount of grinding to get everything.
Most players are not going to attempt to unlock everything for a long time, and those that do will still have a few things they like.
Noone is going to use every build possible all the time. Thats crazy.
This isn't even taking gear into account. I may have a good hammer and shotgun set, but have no gear for elemental/rifles. I'm not going to run around usin ele/rifle allthe time because the guy with gear will be better at it, or whatever.
Anyways, if you don't believe this game has customization, then that's fine. I honestly don't know what it will be like either when the game comes out.
You seem to think everyone will have every skill and everyone will want to use every build, switching between them all the time. I think that is incorrect but we shall see.
The developers stated that the red was the intent.
With only 7 active abilities, it's pretty easy to do anything in this game in terms of combat. The only challenge is in the building of skill decks, but that's just a little bit of research just like it was in Anarchy Online
Everyone will eventually get all skills. That is why quests are repeatable, it's essentially how you progress through the game instead of leveling traditionally. The developers even said that there was progression, but it was much "flatter" than in most other games because of it.
So yeah.. not sure what you expect from the game, but it's pretty clear that they went for a game without dedicated roles given you can swap between them readily and learn them all. The specialization points are there to make you a unique snowflake, but ... as of right now they are kind of minor.
That may be their intent, but I still have doubt that everyone will go through the effort required to do it. Just because quests are repeatable doesn't mean that people are going to run around doing every quest over and over to get every skill. The more casual players most certainly won't in my opinion.
Let's throw that argument out though, and assume you are right. Every single person who plays the game will get every skill unlocked at some point. Or at least the vast majority will. That's fine, I can go along with that.
The real point of my argument, however, is that even if your average player has every skill available to them, the vast majority will go unused by any given player. Most people are simply not going to have enough builds rattling around in their heads that can utilize all 500 skills.
There are people out there who absolutely refuse to heal, for example. In lots of class based games there are classes capable of being healers or dps. SWTOR is a good recent example of this. Your average sith inquisitor was not a healer. I knew many that had zero interest in healing, they just wanted to zap stuff with lightning. Those people aren't going to be out there using every build possible.
Even within healers there are several different ways to make a healing build between the different weapons with healing. Not to mention the passives.
The same could be said for any role. People aren't going to use every dps spec out there just because they can. They will use what they like
I get your point. Yes people will be able to swap between roles at will, noone is locked into any one thing, but will they? That is the question that matters. Like I said, just because you can make a tanking build, doesn't mean you are a good tank.
That may be their intent, but I still have doubt that everyone will go through the effort required to do it. Just because quests are repeatable doesn't mean that people are going to run around doing every quest over and over to get every skill. The more casual players most certainly won't in my opinion.
Let's throw that argument out though, and assume you are right. Every single person who plays the game will get every skill unlocked at some point. Or at least the vast majority will. That's fine, I can go along with that.
The real point of my argument, however, is that even if your average player has every skill available to them, the vast majority will go unused by any given player. Most people are simply not going to have enough builds rattling around in their heads that can utilize all 500 skills.
There are people out there who absolutely refuse to heal, for example. In lots of class based games there are classes capable of being healers or dps. SWTOR is a good recent example of this. Your average sith inquisitor was not a healer. I knew many that had zero interest in healing, they just wanted to zap stuff with lightning. Those people aren't going to be out there using every build possible.
Even within healers there are several different ways to make a healing build between the different weapons with healing. Not to mention the passives.
The same could be said for any role. People aren't going to use every dps spec out there just because they can. They will use what they like
I get your point. Yes people will be able to swap between roles at will, noone is locked into any one thing, but will they? That is the question that matters. Like I said, just because you can make a tanking build, doesn't mean you are a good tank.
First off, instead of levels there is degree of completion of the wheel i.e. the % of skills you've unlocked. That is essentially the level. You're assuming that not everybody will hit max level, which is kind of ridiculous. There aren't many western MMORPGs out where you can't hit max level reasonably, EQ was one but that was more than a decade ago.
It's also ridiculous to assume that people won't use more than one build. It defeats the entire purpose of the weapon system. You're supposed to use more than one set of two weapons in different situations depending on what is needed. Specialization in this game exists to some degree, but is not the core of the game. The game is classless precisely because of that.
You're not supposed to specialize heavily like in other games, you're supposed to adapt to what is needed. The combat is probably simple for that reason as well, since you're supposed to master different roles.
If you refuse to heal, then it's fine, because everybody else can heal. If you refuse to tank, that's fine too, because everybody else can tank. The same holds for dps. You CAN do everything, but you're not forced. You only make it harder on yourself if you want to specialize in one role though...
Originally posted by simplyawful You're not supposed to specialize heavily like in other games, you're supposed to adapt to what is needed. The combat is probably simple for that reason as well, since you're supposed to master different roles.
The combat is simple for the beginner/solo quests and complex for the high end group content. Thats how most mmos do it. Dont see the pattern changing here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Comments
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ . Agree swtor is a fail (sarcasm off).
You keep posting this drivel everywhere and making a fool of yourself.
It's WORSE for them to have sold that many and have population dropping off a cliff
It shows most who buy the game don't hang around to play.
Even the most ardent TOR defender can't dispute the fact most servers are ghost towns now.
TOR sold millions and lost millions - it hold the title for mmorpg to lose the most subscribers the fastest -
if a game doesnt have more than a million subs, it's a failure nowadays.
yet your "playing" 37 the "game"
It has been 6 months so likely, I'm playing Tera and D3 now, the ones who where there played warzones over and over because all raids could be knocked out in a couple hours and hard modes gave lesser gear. One thing I did notice is that there was low attrition from the hard core players on my SWTOR server that just played a lot but they would warzone 5-10 hours a day. TSW seems interesting but I doubt it has anything SWTOR doesn't to keep players.
Mexarillia, 400,000 subs to not be a failure and AO and AoC didn't keep a quarter of that a year out, the goal is to make a profit or return on the development investment. Funcom considered age of conan a failure http://translate.google.cz/translate?u=http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/article2942108.ece&sl=no&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I think TSW will be a good game and Funcom will actually pull off a decent launch. That being said - the style of game it is may not appeal to a large audience.
No, my point is, the majority of the playerbase (the casuals) never reached max level. In fact, many probably just dropped the game.
Doubt it SWTOR's leveling was much better than any MMO's leveling so far. For sure many quit but certainly a smaller percent than any other MMO, most the people who quit from my guild were at level cap. 3-5 days to max level, companions, a solid story less you play jedi consular like I did. If any game was tailered to casuals from day 1, SWTOR is it. The forums didn't have anything negative about leveling it was all level cap issues. It was a good bet any player that hit level cap would quit within 1-2 weeks.
I don't see quiting before cap a negative, in Everquest and Aion many players quit before the cap but both those games had loads of subscribers.
Heh. I feel tempted to repost this post of yours in the SWTOR section of this site or the official forums, to see how much of the (ex) SWTOR playerbase agrees with your 'there were no problems in SWTOR before level cap'
As for EQ and Aion, EQ had a massive level grind, it took easily 1000-1500+ hrs to reach level cap. So yeah, I agree that people often didn't reach level cap before quitting, and since in that time you only had like 3-5 MMO's in total to pick from, people tend to stick longer with the first MMO ever they had played. As for Aion, it had loads of subs in the east, Asia. Western sub numbers dropped rapidly within months. I know that most of the friends and guildies I started playing AIon with quit Aion around L20-35, at that time the repetitive and thus boring level grind became too much for many.
But we'll see.
At least for me (and I guess many others) an important reason to stick to an mmo has a lot to do with community and how much you are part of it once the game starts getting repetitive / there is little new to discover (at some point every MMO does). It might have been the setting, combat, quests, graphics... that made me give a new mmo a try, but if there was no good reason to interact with other players or no content for larger groups I soon lost intrest. Otherwise there are usually better single-player or coop-titles with respect to almost everything else.
Even though I fully support titles to offer much content to solo-players and casual players, there needs to be some element in the game that really connects the players imho. This is something you cannot really pin to a specific game mechanic and we'll see soon enough how TSW works out. If there is a strong story aspect that has more focus on the single player it's nothing I'd worry about, as long as the game doesn't end there. I see a fair amount of potential - the args, pvp seem to provide something for the server community and instances sound challanging enough to make proper group play important (and hence you cannot rush it with random people without any need of communication). I don't think it will be possible to properly make any predictions on that aspect in the beta since most players focus their attention on the features of the game and less on their co-players.
?
"In the shadow of SWTOR"?
Which was released int he shadow of RIFT, which was in the shadow of (was it aion?) ect..
common no one cant deny that make a smile reading this xD
repost it, SWTOR and Aion are still the second and third most played MMOs in the west, well anything outside of asia. By a large margin then it is eve online which claimed 400,000 subs this year. Earlier today my brother mentioned Heros of Newerth but I'm not sure what type of game it is, it's around Eve pop wise.
TSW hopes to out perform Eve for an entire year, no easy feat so they better have a solid game and something enticing players to stay above and beyond what SWTOR has as they wont start with 2 million + box sales.
If customization is your thing, you will be hooked. No two toons will ever be a like.
Not sure if you're talking about TSW, but if you are, then you're simply wrong.
All toons converge to the same thing, since you can learn all abilities. The customization you're referring to is just the proficiencies, but the proficiencies are somewhat trivialized after the first point, so it's really just a < 20% difference in damage/healing/mitigation at the end.
I'm sure you could grasp straws and say that that is indeed some form of customization and you'd be right, but .. you'd never have any incentive to roll a different toon, because it would still play exactly the same.
Even if everyone unlocks all abilities (and that's a big if) the difference comes from the fact that you can only use 7 active and 7 passive at the same time.
It's not like you can run around with hotbars with 515 slots on them and use all abilities at all times.
The customization comes from peoples builds. While I wouldn't go as far as saying that every character will be a special and unique snowflake, there is absolutely a lot of room for customization and differentiating yourself from others.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
there are two sides to this. yes, the customization is there. you can make your favorite little snowflake build and quest around, rp, etc. You can even give some obscure builds a go in pvp just to mess with people (which I will be doing from time to time hehe)
But this freedom also swings the other way in the shape of crazy hard group pve content. Theres a reason everyone has access to every ability and can change their decks easily: you're gonna have to in order to get past otherwise impossible boss encounters. If you're a hardcore raider, this game is going to challenge your group composition skills probably more than most mmos out there. You will have your problem solving skills tested more than your twitch skills. Sure there will be plenty of visual cues to surviving. But most of the tougher content will have your group or raid shuffling and reshuffling your decks and approaching fights from different angles til you get it right. This is the first time Ive actually looked forward to a raid since Karazahn.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Not true again, because you can swap between decks at any time. The only real customization is SP and it's not really as deep as it was in Anarchy Online with IP either.
I'm glad it's there, it's just that the focus is different. It's more like you're supposed to play whatever you want at any time without restriction, instead of being confined to a single role like in typical MMOs.
The benefit is that you can do whatever you want/need to experience content. The drawback is that there is no replayability.
Yep. I couldn't be happier about that side of things.
I'm a raid/guild leader and I love to be presented with a challenge like that. I love the logistics of making sure we have everything we need and making decisions on the fly and having to adapt to some unperceived problem we come accross.
Having this system around is going to be quite challenging to coordinate, and I honestly think it is going to require input from the entire group when these situations pop up.
People are going to have to speak up and say "hey guys we wiped on this three times, I think I can tweak my build here and do this thing that will help us" while leaders are going to have a lot to keep track of as far as how people can spec and what skills they unlocked etc.
It sure beats "ok we have a warrior, a priest, some mel
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Well first of all, decks are the premade builds are they not? You don't even have to use them.
Second, just because you can use all skills doesn't mean everyone will be good a every build. Someone doesn't become a good tank or healer simply because they spec for it. And really there are plenty of people that don't want to do that. Most people just want to dps. There are a large variety of dps builds in this game for everyone. Assuming decent balance then people won't have to run around with the same build.
Third, I don't believe the premise that everyone will have all skills. I do believe that it will take a decent time investment to acquire everything. Skills come slower later in the game from what I have heard and I expect a significant amount of grinding to get everything.
Most players are not going to attempt to unlock everything for a long time, and those that do will still have a few things they like.
Noone is going to use every build possible all the time. Thats crazy.
This isn't even taking gear into account. I may have a good hammer and shotgun set, but have no gear for elemental/rifles. I'm not going to run around usin ele/rifle allthe time because the guy with gear will be better at it, or whatever.
Anyways, if you don't believe this game has customization, then that's fine. I honestly don't know what it will be like either when the game comes out.
You seem to think everyone will have every skill and everyone will want to use every build, switching between them all the time. I think that is incorrect but we shall see.
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The shadow of.....SWTOR!!!! Duh duh duuuuuuuh..........
But Im sorry to say I do see TSW being a niche game at best. And I think it will do fine for awhile. I just dont think its going to be groundbreaking. Fans of the game should have a fairly good time with it for at least a year if not longer.
The developers stated that the red was the intent.
With only 7 active abilities, it's pretty easy to do anything in this game in terms of combat. The only challenge is in the building of skill decks, but that's just a little bit of research just like it was in Anarchy Online
Everyone will eventually get all skills. That is why quests are repeatable, it's essentially how you progress through the game instead of leveling traditionally. The developers even said that there was progression, but it was much "flatter" than in most other games because of it.
So yeah.. not sure what you expect from the game, but it's pretty clear that they went for a game without dedicated roles given you can swap between them readily and learn them all. The specialization points are there to make you a unique snowflake, but ... as of right now they are kind of minor.
That may be their intent, but I still have doubt that everyone will go through the effort required to do it. Just because quests are repeatable doesn't mean that people are going to run around doing every quest over and over to get every skill. The more casual players most certainly won't in my opinion.
Let's throw that argument out though, and assume you are right. Every single person who plays the game will get every skill unlocked at some point. Or at least the vast majority will. That's fine, I can go along with that.
The real point of my argument, however, is that even if your average player has every skill available to them, the vast majority will go unused by any given player. Most people are simply not going to have enough builds rattling around in their heads that can utilize all 500 skills.
There are people out there who absolutely refuse to heal, for example. In lots of class based games there are classes capable of being healers or dps. SWTOR is a good recent example of this. Your average sith inquisitor was not a healer. I knew many that had zero interest in healing, they just wanted to zap stuff with lightning. Those people aren't going to be out there using every build possible.
Even within healers there are several different ways to make a healing build between the different weapons with healing. Not to mention the passives.
The same could be said for any role. People aren't going to use every dps spec out there just because they can. They will use what they like
I get your point. Yes people will be able to swap between roles at will, noone is locked into any one thing, but will they? That is the question that matters. Like I said, just because you can make a tanking build, doesn't mean you are a good tank.
Shadow's Hand Guild
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First off, instead of levels there is degree of completion of the wheel i.e. the % of skills you've unlocked. That is essentially the level. You're assuming that not everybody will hit max level, which is kind of ridiculous. There aren't many western MMORPGs out where you can't hit max level reasonably, EQ was one but that was more than a decade ago.
It's also ridiculous to assume that people won't use more than one build. It defeats the entire purpose of the weapon system. You're supposed to use more than one set of two weapons in different situations depending on what is needed. Specialization in this game exists to some degree, but is not the core of the game. The game is classless precisely because of that.
You're not supposed to specialize heavily like in other games, you're supposed to adapt to what is needed. The combat is probably simple for that reason as well, since you're supposed to master different roles.
If you refuse to heal, then it's fine, because everybody else can heal. If you refuse to tank, that's fine too, because everybody else can tank. The same holds for dps. You CAN do everything, but you're not forced. You only make it harder on yourself if you want to specialize in one role though...
The combat is simple for the beginner/solo quests and complex for the high end group content. Thats how most mmos do it. Dont see the pattern changing here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.