Harrassment and sexism are serious issues in gaming. No other entertainment area than gaming has such a conservative and backwater image of women. But I agree that the manners in the online sphere generally got worse. I remember different manners in days when SWG, EQ and UO were king of the hill. Too many dumb aggro kids these days. But the reactionary women image in many games surely makes it worse.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Maybe it's just me but I don't go out of my way to insult people I play against. Them sucking kinda speaks for itself. When I have an off day, I'm WELL aware I'm having a shit day and I don't take it personal.
How can I allow my daughter to participate in these with me though? Why would ANYONE allow their kids to be put into this? That's teaching them the wrong things from the get-go. I think that's what bothers me the most. My kid is sitting across the way playing sonic racing and doing her "I Won" dance everytime she takes first. I would NEVER consider letting her online with jerks out there screaming about raping and whatnot. It's one thing to say YOU SUCK, Learn to Play, N00b and something else to say I hope you get raped and your family gets murdered you worthless B*****.
You see?
I do SEE.
How old is she? See the initial disclaimer for children (which mind you is contextual). Here ill add some, adults probably shouldn't punch or verbally abuse children (unless the child want to act like a grown up and start it first, unless they don't know better[are quite young]). And if you are letting your seven (7) year old on the internet playing mmo/fps/mobas that is YOUR FAULT. Remember you are responsible for them (please feed her, your concerning me) thus the party in this situation to choose how to react would be YOU, ie don't let them play such games, (how about a game with herself, other kids, or her friend/peers playing).
Her peers might make fun of her a bit (doubt you hear them tell her they will rape her etc). I grew up in a super pc household, in a super pc school ... i didn't learn to anything socially until after i left high-school because i never had to (i would still be that way if not for voice chat, games, moderate level of intelligence, and the desire to learn and improve myself [learned to properly read English in high-school, i have read WoT series about 8 times now i read very good, never learned to write well .. well not like some people. If i take hours and days i can turn out doctoral work; but i naturally suck at it]) Why did i type all of that, what is my point... you don't get better at something by avoiding it. You want a well rounded daughter let the sand/pebbles/whatever rough her up a bit and smooth her out into a polished gem. (please don't punch her in the face, i beg of you i didn't say smash your daughter to bits... put the bat down now that is also not acceptable).
You see ? Your at fault for not being responsible for the content your daughter engages with.. or you are responsible and your post would not occur anyway (as that would not happen to your daughter). Well unless you mean your GROWN ADULT daughter (which means that you framed the situation/argument dishonestly) but then think about it, if someone on the supranet (what the internet will obviously be called in the future) says you suck so bad your gonna get expletive rap** to your adult daughter. Oh no, your daughters a big girl now and if you let her build coping and social skills she will laugh it off/ignore it.
So again You SEE, i think i do see, many i am just to crazy in love with reality (while spinning fictitious jaunts of thought).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
From personal experience I can say that I receive much more rude remarks if I play a female toon than when I play a male one, and the amount of sexual harassment and personal questions that are entirely unrelated to the game rises drastically with a female character too, especially when other players assume that my character reflects my sex IRL.
That's the core reason why my main character in games tends to be male, although I like making alts of both genders.
There's just less crap to deal with. Nobody asks for your breast size, and almost nobody asks about your sexual experiences, or nags for your A/S/L, for your "insert popular social site" address, for your (naked) photos, nobody keeps asking to cyber with him and/or fulfill his sexual kink. Even the insults and slurs are kinder if you're not female, same for the judgement of your gaming skills.
The game developers IMO don't really help the issue at all, since the visuals for the female characters still prevalently follow the "half-naked *****" model, where the display of bounce motion engine has the utmost importance and diversity in armor and character model concepts has not.
I'm not saying male characters and men are not a target of abuse and harassment, because I know well they are, but I'm convinced there is a disparity based on gender, and female gamers get more flak.
Excusing rude behavior and harassment with "happens to everyone, get a thicker skin" is immature. It ensures that we all play in virtual communities that are an absolute horror to deal with. It's like forum PvP with no moderators, only worse. Why would you defend the status quo?
I don't even expect anyone to be the paladin and help each time they witness to abuse, but the least you can do is not to excuse that kind of behavior. And maybe in few deacades or so, playing games with strangers won't need to be an atrocious experience almost by default. After all, it's great when people are polite and there is a feeling of belonging to a (good) community.
I think he's just bothered that those attitudes even exist, Jetrpg.
Obviously one should probably not let their children into those environments without protection.
That doesn't excuse the existence of those environments or the attitudes of the people there. There are some fucked up people in there, and we must recognize that, and state that those attitudes are not excusable. Those people also exist in the real world and they're not any better in the real world. There's nothing good or normal about this, it's actually quite troubling.
Poor women, complaining about something that has been in the online gaming world well before they became a prominant player.
So you think only women face sexual harrassment? You think women are the only ones who dislike being called names and made fun of? You think women are the only ones who get picked on?
Rediculous, while I do agree that women do sometimes get called names like whore, slut, or fatty, what about the names guys get called? Nerd, (insert numerous racial slurs that get thrown around constantly), gay, homosexual, little dumb ass kid, threats to sexually molest the kid, talks about their mommas, just general trolling.
You think that women have it worse than men as far as being treated bad on online video games? That is just too funny. If anything, women only get treated that way by dudes because the dudes have no social skills to interact with women on a normal level, or perhaps they are just jelouse.
When a little kid beats a grown adult, the grown adult can get angry and began bullying-harrassing-and verbally sexually abusing the kid. In my eyes, this is probably a lot worse than the way women get treated. This is a sometimes innoncent kid just having fun that gets verbally attacked by a group of grown adults who had their little epeens crushed by this younger kid. A lot of times I hear the older adults making fun of the kid for his voice, or threatening to sexually molest him in some way.
So why do women get this special treatment as far as "Oh poor women, getting called fatty and slut over the internets, boohoo". I am sorry but it happens to everyone, not just women, and just because you are women gamers, it does not make you special and deserve special treatment in some sort of way. Its online video gaming, there are assholes out there, just deal with it like the rest of us.
Bullying and internet harrassment is definitely bad, but I do not see how women gamers are getting the worse end of the stick in comparison to any other type of gamer out there.
Perhaps Hello Kitty Online Adventure is more up their alley if they cannot handle the unbridled world of adult internet gaming.
I will hammer home the point though that it is unfortunate it is happening, but it happens to everyone and many many different scale levels, women, kids, men, old men, old women, dogs, parrots, wallabes, you name it, and it will get made fun of and slandered just like anyone else.
I never insult anyone and actually sometimes feel bad for the person being insulted and might offer some words on their defense, it is pathetic that this type of treatment even exists online, but the fact of the matter and sticking to the particular thread that I am typing in, women have it just as bad as anyone else, and like someone said in a previous thread, "grow thicker skin", it is an unfortunate reality of playing online games. You just have to report, ignore, and deal with it like EVERYONE ELSE WHO PLAYS ONLINE GAMES. I know people don't like to see that "Everyone gets harrassed" but, well, unfortunately....THEY DO. Capslock ftw to emphasise stuff.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
in a moba people on my team crying i'm dieing too much (because most of time I was being ganked by 3 players and allies are just farming....),
(...)
If you are getting ganked by 3 players, you are not paying enough attention to the minimap, so, yes, they are right, it is your fault. However, that doesn't mean that it is only your fault.
since you had to comment on this one, the minmap don't show where the enemy players are so point invalid, but that what happens when I play to help the whole team, I was a little behind because I had to upgrade the defense buildings and gathering bonus for the whole group, also consider lol is not the only moba out there
since you had to comment on this one, the minmap don't show where the enemy players are so point invalid, but that what happens when I play to help the whole team, I was a little behind because I had to upgrade the defense buildings and gathering bonus for the whole group, also consider lol is not the only moba out there
I would argue how you're playing is irrelevant.
People shouldn't attack other players just because they're playing badly. They're probably in that ELO for a reason.
Poor women, complaining about something that has been in the online gaming world well before they became a prominant player.
So you think only women face sexual harrassment? You think women are the only ones who dislike being called names and made fun of? You think women are the only ones who get picked on?
Rediculous, while I do agree that women do sometimes get called names like whore, slut, or fatty, what about the names guys get called? Nerd, (insert numerous racial slurs that get thrown around constantly), gay, homosexual, little dumb ass kid, threats to sexually molest the kid, talks about their mommas, just general trolling.
You think that women have it worse than men as far as being treated bad on online video games? That is just too funny. If anything, women only get treated that way by dudes because the dudes have no social skills to interact with women on a normal level, or perhaps they are just jelouse.
When a little kid beats a grown adult, the grown adult can get angry and began bullying-harrassing-and verbally sexually abusing the kid. In my eyes, this is probably a lot worse than the way women get treated. This is a sometimes innoncent kid just having fun that gets verbally attacked by a group of grown adults who had their little epeens crushed by this younger kid. A lot of times I hear the older adults making fun of the kid for his voice, or threatening to sexually molest him in some way.
So why do women get this special treatment as far as "Oh poor women, getting called fatty and slut over the internets, boohoo". I am sorry but it happens to everyone, not just women, and just because you are women gamers, it does not make you special and deserve special treatment in some sort of way. Its online video gaming, there are assholes out there, just deal with it like the rest of us.
Bullying and internet harrassment is definitely bad, but I do not see how women gamers are getting the worse end of the stick in comparison to any other type of gamer out there.
Perhaps Hello Kitty Online Adventure is more up their alley if they cannot handle the unbridled world of adult internet gaming.
I will hammer home the point though that it is unfortunate it is happening, but it happens to everyone and many many different scale levels, women, kids, men, old men, old women, dogs, parrots, wallabes, you name it, and it will get made fun of and slandered just like anyone else.
also dude side note, you let women think they order you around and you do waht they want, they never admity they are wrong, even when you have facts on your side , also they can complain and do all what they want, I find it pretty difficult they will change what the 14 kids will be yelling or not.
you do also can just not use voip and let him type, kill him when he is typing then he will cry even more
Lets just look at facts. Men are (usually) more logical. If an insult isnt logical, then they dont care. Women are (usually) more emotional. If an insult isnt logical, they dont care, but they still get emotional about it. Its not the women are more 'targetted', its that theyre more sensitive to it (usually).
Seriously, think about it, women always turn any issue, into a personal one, I think they call that narcissism.....hah!
Thing is, every time anything about women is brought up, there's a pretty big attack on women about even possibly consideirng that they may be discriminated against. Doesn't that look a bit... counterproductive? Attacking women for suggesting they may be attacked?
Look at this:
Originally posted by alkarionlog
also dude side note, you let women think they order you around and you do waht they want, they never admity they are wrong, even when you have facts on your side ,
That's misogyny, right there. Out of the blue.
And now, this:
Originally posted by Zaltark
Lets just look at facts. Men are (usually) more logical. If an insult isnt logical, then they dont care. Women are (usually) more emotional. If an insult isnt logical, they dont care, but they still get emotional about it. Its not the women are more 'targetted', its that theyre more sensitive to it (usually).
Men and women alike have to take a lot of shit when playing online. I mean the thing I have been called when playing League of Legends...
Women needs simply to grow thicker skin. It is the Internet, by nature people are rude there.
How about we tackle the cause of this rather than "toughen up" and make it so we can all enjoy online games without be harrassed? We are supposed to be a civilised world and if someone is racist, sexist, homophobic to me in real life they have to take the consequences of the law but its OK to do in an online game?
Good luck tackling it.
It starts by us gamers not accepting it in the first place as if "It is the Internet, by nature people are rude there."
So what happens after it starts? What happens after I believe people are not rude by nature on the internet?
pretty much there needs to be consequences for the nasty behavior which right now in most games and communities there isnt. The worst right now which is probably the biggest offender outside FPS situations is WoW. They ALLOW stalking, harassment ect to happen and it makes ppl think its ok to do those things. Colddog, I don't think you can start out talking about being trash talked playing Halo... that environment breeds animosity and nastiness.. I am sure that girl was either used to that behavior or simply trying to dish out what she had recieved like the humor vid that was linked.
I have talked about this before and Colddog specifically may have read it since he frequents the GW2 forums where it was posted. This shit is real.. women are treated like shit or sex objects for the most part. also before I get too far I need to point out that the 42% of gamer being female actually includes FB games and match 3/HOG.. soooo in our gaming peer grp women are a much lower percentage, probably around 15-20%. Now PVP/FPS/MOBA situations things get heated.. I am specifiaclly leaving this out because I think there is SOME room for outbursts that arent and shouldnt be taken seriously.
Now what that leaves is RPG/Sandbox ect games which probably where most of the women gamers are playing anyways. Men are still shocked when they find out a player is a girl and usually either immediately start flirting, doing stuff for them(like babying them through the game) or start asking obsurd questions. This leads to a normal friendship, stalker situation or rarely an actual relationship and of course sometimes... nothing. RARELY will a guy ignore the fact that he finds out a girl is a girl and rarely will a guy allow the initial interaction to let be. If the same guy came across another guy he would simply ignore him most of the time.
Now.. what this does to girl gamers... young ones tend to become flattered and sometimes end up liking using guys for gear, quest help, protectors so they can be bad at a game but still get attn.. a good example of this is Pico(sp?) that girl from Curse. It becomes hard for them to learn the games themselves like you do because of constant attn either posititive or negative. Women 25-35 tend to start either ignoring the attn, hiding their sex entirely or reverting to the "baby me" mentality.. in a sense becoming less mature to fit it or get the attn. The only women that seem to escape the nonsense are those deemed "too old" by the male players and are left alone to play as they wish. Personally I started online gaming at 23-24 and I probably went through each stage, in the beginning I couldn't do ANYTHING in game without one guy or another fawning over me because I was a girl... It hurt me in the game.. I wasnt able to figure out how to "play my class" or play the game to its fullest because I wasn't allowed to. Only when I started raiding did I finally figure it out.. through the DPS meter and just trying to prove myself as a decent player.. I became one. This only happens to about 10% of the newer women players.. the rest are allowed to play bad or dont get to raid at all because they perform poorly.
Now lets deal with the nasty stuff.. the stalking, name calling, lude comments ect. I think most of you guys ignore it but it is out there.. I alone have been stalked 3-4 times in my 8-9ish years of gaming and that is just the ones serious enough to feel danger.. thats not the puppy love types that hope for something more so are your friend. I will admit one of those times was instigated by 2 women but brought in their "boy toys" to add to it.. this brings up another situation.. the women that are already low on character and react in a bad way to the attn so become worse than the guys that made them that way. The users.. they use guys to get what they want and feel threatened by other women gamers so tend to turn REAL nasty towards then as if marking their territory. Luckily this is pretty rare, I have only encountered 3 women like this and 2 sorta went together egging each other on. The other may just be us being too similar and it brought out her bad side(we had nearly the same char name, same birthday only 1 yr apart.. we may have even had similar RL names).
Ok I know this is a huge wall of text and fairly rambling, sry about that. Basically my point is that ppl need to own up to their bad behavior, cut it out and others need to help them stop.. dont let it be ok to harass someone and mostly.. game companies BAN THOSE WHO DO IT! Do not allow stalking, harassment, name calling(the really bad names), ect.
I think he's just bothered that those attitudes even exist, Jetrpg.
Obviously one should probably not let their children into those environments without protection.
That doesn't excuse the existence of those environments or the attitudes of the people there. There are some fucked up people in there, and we must recognize that, and state that those attitudes are not excusable. Those people also exist in the real world and they're not any better in the real world. There's nothing good or normal about this, it's actually quite troubling.
Yeah but who cares if they are in that world most games have mute/ignore features problem solved. But no that is not the goal , we need to punish and report these people, how DARE THEY OFFEND ME. I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.
Thats the mentiality, because they been taught it ... i would take 10 douchebags (as someone called them) over 1 of them moral , weak, pampered know nothings that cannot bare offense. Because to them saying you suck also is just as offensive (even if its 100% true). And they will take the same actions.
PS i do not go around insulting people, the closer they are to me the more i insult them (jokingly). I am very proper in general, unless im pumped up (normally by people using faulty logical and non-sequiturs; i do hate ths spread of misinformation and wrong-headed cliche').
"and state that those attitudes are not excusable" You can call them out and tell them hey your attitude is awful, thus ill not play with you and get your fiends to also if you like, but demanding they change it or censore themselves is wrong. Its your resposiblity to deal with your attitudes, actions, behaviors and not those of others. (Otherwise, what you are actually are asking for is tynnery and thought policing).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This entire "problem" can simply be avoided by joining a clan/gaming group that doesn't suck. If you don't want to get harrassed then don't join random TS servers or play with a bunch of randomers. (and don't play LoL at all, it's like signing up for harrassment) It may take a while to find such a gaming group but it will be worth it. Real clans will remove members for harrassment. Then it's a non issue. If the game you play has built in VOIP then just turn it off and listen to clanmates on your clan voice chat. And don't type in general chat, its only purpose is for harrassing others.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Lets just look at facts. Men are (usually) more logical. If an insult isnt logical, then they dont care. Women are (usually) more emotional. If an insult isnt logical, they dont care, but they still get emotional about it. Its not the women are more 'targetted', its that theyre more sensitive to it (usually).
hrm I find this to be pretty opposite, its a running joke in my guild about how the guys have no logic and think with their.. other brains... which would be akin to emotion. The joke was started because the volume of those situation where I ended up explaining the illogic of their actions ect.. I ended up being mom or guild counselor most the time =P Using an insult as your example is damned silly.. insults are meant to BE emotional.. there is never logic in them.
So basically you just proved my point. All these guys did was disagree with you, and provided thier reasoning and you call that sexism.
"this gender does x" is not reasoning. That's sexism. That's the definition of sexism.
If you're not aware of that, you may need to take some classes. I would also be curious to see the result of such statements if you said them to a female professor in college.
Putting someone down (i.e., calling them pathetic) is not commendable, btw. Especially for something like reacting to being mistreated.
I love how society is sometimes.
Being a bully is OK. Being rude, offensive, throwing racial and sexist and homophobic slurs, offending people, stalking people, etc... all those things are OK. You should get used to them. Get a tougher skin.
But being offended by that? No, it's pathetic. Maybe you should get a tougher skin on me not agreeing with the status quo. Why it bother you so much?
Something is seriously wrong with this line of thinking.
Originally posted by ariboersma Originally posted by ZaltarkLets just look at facts. Men are (usually) more logical. If an insult isnt logical, then they dont care. Women are (usually) more emotional. If an insult isnt logical, they dont care, but they still get emotional about it. Its not the women are more 'targetted', its that theyre more sensitive to it (usually).
hrm I find this to be pretty opposite, its a running joke in my guild about how the guys have no logic and think with their.. other brains... which would be akin to emotion. The joke was started because the volume of those situation where I ended up explaining the illogic of their actions ect.. I ended up being mom or guild counselor most the time =P Using an insult as your example is damned silly.. insults are meant to BE emotional.. there is never logic in them.
Well yeah, I said usually. But then again I may not be like most men out there. I will admit civilzation has gone downhill as a whole.
"this gender does x" is not reasoning. That's sexism. That's the definition of sexism.
If you're not aware of that, you may need to take some classes. I would also be curious to see the result of such statements if you said them to a female professor in college.
Females carry babies to their birth not males. i am a sexist . ahahhaa
What your missing is not all sexism is wrong... oh snap no way its proved above. That same can be said for other things.
Men are superior at spacial tasks (ohh imm a sexist for saying this ; and i am but a correct one).
Women are superior at linguistics (im a sexist 3 times over now).
Generalizations for sure.
Now some of these comments by others are BS , but so was your claim of misogyny (they did not constitute a hate for females, just an incorrect bias).
Thus we see your Misandry (not really tho, your just the same as that ill-informed person spouting biased nonsense about women, yet you reciprocate in kind, becoming what you demonize all the while believing you are in the right). [mod edit]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'm married ... which has taught me that you never argue with a woman.
That said ..... its absolutely horrible that a woman gamer has to put up with that sort of behavior. It's also horrible that we as a gaming community put up with that behavior at all. As far as the discussion above all this goes, its a losing battle, stop while you are ahead. You will learn .... there are most definitely two sets of rules.
nI've done my part to rid the community of those sort of attitudes .... by not allowing it in my guild, reporting it where found, and in the case of a lack of justice being done by the support staff .... causing said individual to become the black sheep of the server. I also heavily criticise the "Troll" behavior when I see it in public ... more so when I know the childs parents are nearby and I can shame them for their lack of supervision. Did I mention my wifes a Highschool teacher? =D
How did it become OK to stalk? Harrass during competition? Ill accept that, but that doesnt equal rape, kill, etc... people are jumping straight to it huh?
Comments
Harrassment and sexism are serious issues in gaming. No other entertainment area than gaming has such a conservative and backwater image of women. But I agree that the manners in the online sphere generally got worse. I remember different manners in days when SWG, EQ and UO were king of the hill. Too many dumb aggro kids these days. But the reactionary women image in many games surely makes it worse.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I do SEE.
How old is she? See the initial disclaimer for children (which mind you is contextual). Here ill add some, adults probably shouldn't punch or verbally abuse children (unless the child want to act like a grown up and start it first, unless they don't know better[are quite young]). And if you are letting your seven (7) year old on the internet playing mmo/fps/mobas that is YOUR FAULT. Remember you are responsible for them (please feed her, your concerning me) thus the party in this situation to choose how to react would be YOU, ie don't let them play such games, (how about a game with herself, other kids, or her friend/peers playing).
Her peers might make fun of her a bit (doubt you hear them tell her they will rape her etc). I grew up in a super pc household, in a super pc school ... i didn't learn to anything socially until after i left high-school because i never had to (i would still be that way if not for voice chat, games, moderate level of intelligence, and the desire to learn and improve myself [learned to properly read English in high-school, i have read WoT series about 8 times now i read very good, never learned to write well .. well not like some people. If i take hours and days i can turn out doctoral work; but i naturally suck at it]) Why did i type all of that, what is my point... you don't get better at something by avoiding it. You want a well rounded daughter let the sand/pebbles/whatever rough her up a bit and smooth her out into a polished gem. (please don't punch her in the face, i beg of you i didn't say smash your daughter to bits... put the bat down now that is also not acceptable).
You see ? Your at fault for not being responsible for the content your daughter engages with.. or you are responsible and your post would not occur anyway (as that would not happen to your daughter). Well unless you mean your GROWN ADULT daughter (which means that you framed the situation/argument dishonestly) but then think about it, if someone on the supranet (what the internet will obviously be called in the future) says you suck so bad your gonna get expletive rap** to your adult daughter. Oh no, your daughters a big girl now and if you let her build coping and social skills she will laugh it off/ignore it.
So again You SEE, i think i do see, many i am just to crazy in love with reality (while spinning fictitious jaunts of thought).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
From personal experience I can say that I receive much more rude remarks if I play a female toon than when I play a male one, and the amount of sexual harassment and personal questions that are entirely unrelated to the game rises drastically with a female character too, especially when other players assume that my character reflects my sex IRL.
That's the core reason why my main character in games tends to be male, although I like making alts of both genders.
There's just less crap to deal with. Nobody asks for your breast size, and almost nobody asks about your sexual experiences, or nags for your A/S/L, for your "insert popular social site" address, for your (naked) photos, nobody keeps asking to cyber with him and/or fulfill his sexual kink. Even the insults and slurs are kinder if you're not female, same for the judgement of your gaming skills.
The game developers IMO don't really help the issue at all, since the visuals for the female characters still prevalently follow the "half-naked *****" model, where the display of bounce motion engine has the utmost importance and diversity in armor and character model concepts has not.
I'm not saying male characters and men are not a target of abuse and harassment, because I know well they are, but I'm convinced there is a disparity based on gender, and female gamers get more flak.
Excusing rude behavior and harassment with "happens to everyone, get a thicker skin" is immature. It ensures that we all play in virtual communities that are an absolute horror to deal with. It's like forum PvP with no moderators, only worse. Why would you defend the status quo?
I don't even expect anyone to be the paladin and help each time they witness to abuse, but the least you can do is not to excuse that kind of behavior. And maybe in few deacades or so, playing games with strangers won't need to be an atrocious experience almost by default. After all, it's great when people are polite and there is a feeling of belonging to a (good) community.
This: ^
@Jetrpg
I think he's just bothered that those attitudes even exist, Jetrpg.
Obviously one should probably not let their children into those environments without protection.
That doesn't excuse the existence of those environments or the attitudes of the people there. There are some fucked up people in there, and we must recognize that, and state that those attitudes are not excusable. Those people also exist in the real world and they're not any better in the real world. There's nothing good or normal about this, it's actually quite troubling.
Poor women, complaining about something that has been in the online gaming world well before they became a prominant player.
So you think only women face sexual harrassment? You think women are the only ones who dislike being called names and made fun of? You think women are the only ones who get picked on?
Rediculous, while I do agree that women do sometimes get called names like whore, slut, or fatty, what about the names guys get called? Nerd, (insert numerous racial slurs that get thrown around constantly), gay, homosexual, little dumb ass kid, threats to sexually molest the kid, talks about their mommas, just general trolling.
You think that women have it worse than men as far as being treated bad on online video games? That is just too funny. If anything, women only get treated that way by dudes because the dudes have no social skills to interact with women on a normal level, or perhaps they are just jelouse.
When a little kid beats a grown adult, the grown adult can get angry and began bullying-harrassing-and verbally sexually abusing the kid. In my eyes, this is probably a lot worse than the way women get treated. This is a sometimes innoncent kid just having fun that gets verbally attacked by a group of grown adults who had their little epeens crushed by this younger kid. A lot of times I hear the older adults making fun of the kid for his voice, or threatening to sexually molest him in some way.
So why do women get this special treatment as far as "Oh poor women, getting called fatty and slut over the internets, boohoo". I am sorry but it happens to everyone, not just women, and just because you are women gamers, it does not make you special and deserve special treatment in some sort of way. Its online video gaming, there are assholes out there, just deal with it like the rest of us.
Bullying and internet harrassment is definitely bad, but I do not see how women gamers are getting the worse end of the stick in comparison to any other type of gamer out there.
Perhaps Hello Kitty Online Adventure is more up their alley if they cannot handle the unbridled world of adult internet gaming.
I will hammer home the point though that it is unfortunate it is happening, but it happens to everyone and many many different scale levels, women, kids, men, old men, old women, dogs, parrots, wallabes, you name it, and it will get made fun of and slandered just like anyone else.
I never insult anyone and actually sometimes feel bad for the person being insulted and might offer some words on their defense, it is pathetic that this type of treatment even exists online, but the fact of the matter and sticking to the particular thread that I am typing in, women have it just as bad as anyone else, and like someone said in a previous thread, "grow thicker skin", it is an unfortunate reality of playing online games. You just have to report, ignore, and deal with it like EVERYONE ELSE WHO PLAYS ONLINE GAMES. I know people don't like to see that "Everyone gets harrassed" but, well, unfortunately....THEY DO. Capslock ftw to emphasise stuff.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
[mod edit]
I think you just proved the point of that article in your post. I haven't seen so much misogyny in a while. Or this whole thread, really.
since you had to comment on this one, the minmap don't show where the enemy players are so point invalid, but that what happens when I play to help the whole team, I was a little behind because I had to upgrade the defense buildings and gathering bonus for the whole group, also consider lol is not the only moba out there
I would argue how you're playing is irrelevant.
People shouldn't attack other players just because they're playing badly. They're probably in that ELO for a reason.
also dude side note, you let women think they order you around and you do waht they want, they never admity they are wrong, even when you have facts on your side , also they can complain and do all what they want, I find it pretty difficult they will change what the 14 kids will be yelling or not.
you do also can just not use voip and let him type, kill him when he is typing then he will cry even more
Lets just look at facts. Men are (usually) more logical. If an insult isnt logical, then they dont care. Women are (usually) more emotional. If an insult isnt logical, they dont care, but they still get emotional about it. Its not the women are more 'targetted', its that theyre more sensitive to it (usually).
Look at this:
That's misogyny, right there. Out of the blue.
And now, this:
This thread is an effing goldmine.
pretty much there needs to be consequences for the nasty behavior which right now in most games and communities there isnt. The worst right now which is probably the biggest offender outside FPS situations is WoW. They ALLOW stalking, harassment ect to happen and it makes ppl think its ok to do those things. Colddog, I don't think you can start out talking about being trash talked playing Halo... that environment breeds animosity and nastiness.. I am sure that girl was either used to that behavior or simply trying to dish out what she had recieved like the humor vid that was linked.
I have talked about this before and Colddog specifically may have read it since he frequents the GW2 forums where it was posted. This shit is real.. women are treated like shit or sex objects for the most part. also before I get too far I need to point out that the 42% of gamer being female actually includes FB games and match 3/HOG.. soooo in our gaming peer grp women are a much lower percentage, probably around 15-20%. Now PVP/FPS/MOBA situations things get heated.. I am specifiaclly leaving this out because I think there is SOME room for outbursts that arent and shouldnt be taken seriously.
Now what that leaves is RPG/Sandbox ect games which probably where most of the women gamers are playing anyways. Men are still shocked when they find out a player is a girl and usually either immediately start flirting, doing stuff for them(like babying them through the game) or start asking obsurd questions. This leads to a normal friendship, stalker situation or rarely an actual relationship and of course sometimes... nothing. RARELY will a guy ignore the fact that he finds out a girl is a girl and rarely will a guy allow the initial interaction to let be. If the same guy came across another guy he would simply ignore him most of the time.
Now.. what this does to girl gamers... young ones tend to become flattered and sometimes end up liking using guys for gear, quest help, protectors so they can be bad at a game but still get attn.. a good example of this is Pico(sp?) that girl from Curse. It becomes hard for them to learn the games themselves like you do because of constant attn either posititive or negative. Women 25-35 tend to start either ignoring the attn, hiding their sex entirely or reverting to the "baby me" mentality.. in a sense becoming less mature to fit it or get the attn. The only women that seem to escape the nonsense are those deemed "too old" by the male players and are left alone to play as they wish. Personally I started online gaming at 23-24 and I probably went through each stage, in the beginning I couldn't do ANYTHING in game without one guy or another fawning over me because I was a girl... It hurt me in the game.. I wasnt able to figure out how to "play my class" or play the game to its fullest because I wasn't allowed to. Only when I started raiding did I finally figure it out.. through the DPS meter and just trying to prove myself as a decent player.. I became one. This only happens to about 10% of the newer women players.. the rest are allowed to play bad or dont get to raid at all because they perform poorly.
Now lets deal with the nasty stuff.. the stalking, name calling, lude comments ect. I think most of you guys ignore it but it is out there.. I alone have been stalked 3-4 times in my 8-9ish years of gaming and that is just the ones serious enough to feel danger.. thats not the puppy love types that hope for something more so are your friend. I will admit one of those times was instigated by 2 women but brought in their "boy toys" to add to it.. this brings up another situation.. the women that are already low on character and react in a bad way to the attn so become worse than the guys that made them that way. The users.. they use guys to get what they want and feel threatened by other women gamers so tend to turn REAL nasty towards then as if marking their territory. Luckily this is pretty rare, I have only encountered 3 women like this and 2 sorta went together egging each other on. The other may just be us being too similar and it brought out her bad side(we had nearly the same char name, same birthday only 1 yr apart.. we may have even had similar RL names).
Ok I know this is a huge wall of text and fairly rambling, sry about that. Basically my point is that ppl need to own up to their bad behavior, cut it out and others need to help them stop.. dont let it be ok to harass someone and mostly.. game companies BAN THOSE WHO DO IT! Do not allow stalking, harassment, name calling(the really bad names), ect.
Yeah but who cares if they are in that world most games have mute/ignore features problem solved. But no that is not the goal , we need to punish and report these people, how DARE THEY OFFEND ME. I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.
Thats the mentiality, because they been taught it ... i would take 10 douchebags (as someone called them) over 1 of them moral , weak, pampered know nothings that cannot bare offense. Because to them saying you suck also is just as offensive (even if its 100% true). And they will take the same actions.
PS i do not go around insulting people, the closer they are to me the more i insult them (jokingly). I am very proper in general, unless im pumped up (normally by people using faulty logical and non-sequiturs; i do hate ths spread of misinformation and wrong-headed cliche').
"and state that those attitudes are not excusable" You can call them out and tell them hey your attitude is awful, thus ill not play with you and get your fiends to also if you like, but demanding they change it or censore themselves is wrong. Its your resposiblity to deal with your attitudes, actions, behaviors and not those of others. (Otherwise, what you are actually are asking for is tynnery and thought policing).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This entire "problem" can simply be avoided by joining a clan/gaming group that doesn't suck. If you don't want to get harrassed then don't join random TS servers or play with a bunch of randomers. (and don't play LoL at all, it's like signing up for harrassment) It may take a while to find such a gaming group but it will be worth it. Real clans will remove members for harrassment. Then it's a non issue. If the game you play has built in VOIP then just turn it off and listen to clanmates on your clan voice chat. And don't type in general chat, its only purpose is for harrassing others.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
hrm I find this to be pretty opposite, its a running joke in my guild about how the guys have no logic and think with their.. other brains... which would be akin to emotion. The joke was started because the volume of those situation where I ended up explaining the illogic of their actions ect.. I ended up being mom or guild counselor most the time =P Using an insult as your example is damned silly.. insults are meant to BE emotional.. there is never logic in them.
"this gender does x" is not reasoning. That's sexism. That's the definition of sexism.
If you're not aware of that, you may need to take some classes. I would also be curious to see the result of such statements if you said them to a female professor in college.
so you say its ok to sexually harass, stalk ect women because they are there? and its just a "simple disagreement"[mod edit]
Putting someone down (i.e., calling them pathetic) is not commendable, btw. Especially for something like reacting to being mistreated.
I love how society is sometimes.
Being a bully is OK. Being rude, offensive, throwing racial and sexist and homophobic slurs, offending people, stalking people, etc... all those things are OK. You should get used to them. Get a tougher skin.
But being offended by that? No, it's pathetic. Maybe you should get a tougher skin on me not agreeing with the status quo. Why it bother you so much?
Something is seriously wrong with this line of thinking.
No, people who put others down are pathetic.
Well yeah, I said usually. But then again I may not be like most men out there. I will admit civilzation has gone downhill as a whole.
I'm not sure what you're basing that on.
Females carry babies to their birth not males. i am a sexist . ahahhaa
What your missing is not all sexism is wrong... oh snap no way its proved above. That same can be said for other things.
Men are superior at spacial tasks (ohh imm a sexist for saying this ; and i am but a correct one).
Women are superior at linguistics (im a sexist 3 times over now).
Generalizations for sure.
Now some of these comments by others are BS , but so was your claim of misogyny (they did not constitute a hate for females, just an incorrect bias).
Thus we see your Misandry (not really tho, your just the same as that ill-informed person spouting biased nonsense about women, yet you reciprocate in kind, becoming what you demonize all the while believing you are in the right). [mod edit]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'm married ... which has taught me that you never argue with a woman.
That said ..... its absolutely horrible that a woman gamer has to put up with that sort of behavior. It's also horrible that we as a gaming community put up with that behavior at all. As far as the discussion above all this goes, its a losing battle, stop while you are ahead. You will learn .... there are most definitely two sets of rules.
nI've done my part to rid the community of those sort of attitudes .... by not allowing it in my guild, reporting it where found, and in the case of a lack of justice being done by the support staff .... causing said individual to become the black sheep of the server. I also heavily criticise the "Troll" behavior when I see it in public ... more so when I know the childs parents are nearby and I can shame them for their lack of supervision. Did I mention my wifes a Highschool teacher? =D
I'm not sure what your point is?
"Women are sexist towards men, therefore men are never sexist towards women"
?
It's a two-sided issue. Women often propogate it more than men. Always been this way. That doesn't suddenly make it nonexistent.
If anyone is seriously angry about this thread, then you need to stop being such a female! (Thats a joke btw)
How did it become OK to stalk? Harrass during competition? Ill accept that, but that doesnt equal rape, kill, etc... people are jumping straight to it huh?