In Gw2 you can't keep aggro on one man. That's why tanking is not possible, and of course they would attack you.
Imagine this situation in real life: A man got attacked by a bear, he starts running, he passes through a group of people walking through the forest. Enraged bear attacks them instead. It's logical that everyone would run away seeing a man being chased by a freaking bear.
Mob training is, sadly, a thing. I've seen it in BWE.
The odd part is it varies. If a player is lower on health, or does enough damage, the mob will peel off someone in mlee range to focus on them. My gf's ele, if she pewpewed a mob a few times before I got to it, could not shake it off even after I immobilized it and she ran a distance away while I stood there beating on it. Other times I had the mob no matter what. Weird.
It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
I've played over a hundred hours now and I haven't had this happen to me yet. Then again, when I see someone fighting a group of mobs, I tend not to sit on my hands and wait to see if he dies. I'm there backing him up as soon as I can get in range. I guess I just don't give them enough of an opportunity to grief me before jump in the fight willingly.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong...
^this.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
In Gw2 you can't keep aggro on one man. That's why tanking is not possible, and of course they would attack you.
Imagine this situation in real life: A man got attacked by a bear, he starts running, he passes through a group of people walking through the forest. Enraged bear attacks them instead. It's logical that everyone would run away seeing a man being chased by a freaking bear.
^and this.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
It makes you help people really. Yes you can train stuff onto other people and be a dick but I doubt that will be a huge case in that instance. If your attacking a lonely bear lets say, then all of a sudden from inside a cave out runs 2 or 3 mores bears, Im going to run unless Im full of health and if i see another person in my area ill run towards them for some help, most of the time they have helped me. A few times people have just run by while im getting my ass kicked though.
I always try to help people while im running around (unless Im dealing with a shit storm myself) and a majority of others seem to play the same way, from my experience so far anyway.
Actually grouped with a couple people that way and we stayed together for awhile after we helped each other out.
Not in direct context with the train thing, i like the way aggro works, in a event me and 2 other guys were attacking a champion, when one of us got low on helth he would flee and try to be ignored by the champion, if he suceeded, then he would try to not damage the champion and revive other fallen player while his health regenerated, while on other mmorpgs this would be fine, as when he was not attacking, he would be ignored, the aggro mechanic makes the champions sometimes randomly change the focus of his attack, making a more realistic fight, when you actually have to pay attention to what you are doing, what other ppl are doing and what the enemy is doing... made the fight hard, but had quite a bit of fun. just my opinion
Not in direct context with the train thing, i like the way aggro works, in a event me and 2 other guys were attacking a champion, when one of us got low on helth he would flee and try to be ignored by the champion, if he suceeded, then he would try to not damage the champion and revive other fallen player while his health regenerated, while on other mmorpgs this would be fine, as when he was not attacking, he would be ignored, the aggro mechanic makes the champions sometimes randomly change the focus of his attack, making a more realistic fight, when you actually have to pay attention to what you are doing, what other ppl are doing and what the enemy is doing... made the fight hard, but had quite a bit of fun. just my opinion
Mobs take player health into account on aggro. They also seem to recognize healers and rezzers as a threat and will sometimes pursue them.
The problem is it still seems totally random sometimes, so aggro management it chaos. Best tactice I've found is stop worrying about aggro and blind/slow/immob/stun the hell out of the mob while rotating whatever defensive skills you have.
Mobs take player health into account on aggro. They also seem to recognize healers and rezzers as a threat and will sometimes pursue them.
The problem is it still seems totally random sometimes, so aggro management it chaos. Best tactice I've found is stop worrying about aggro and blind/slow/immob/stun the hell out of the mob while rotating whatever defensive skills you have.
yep, that was an issue when there was chaos in the battle, sometimes the mob would stick together, attack one dude all at once (though luck...) and/or split into different targets, i cant say its perfect, but with snares, etc it can be fun, not the best solution, but it still ads an element of random that i like in a game. as were in beta, i think over time we will understand better the mob mechanics, in gw1 they were studied better than some of my university classes
It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
unless it sees you as a potential danger or easy kill
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I actually prefer it this way (as it was also handled i GW1) over the manner it is handled in other MMOs.
A mob, part of a group of mobs, chasing player A sees player B and realizes that if it kills player B it wont have to share the meal...and so switches.
Also, this allows one member of a group of players to potentially shed some mobs if he is getting low on health by, "scraping," them off on an ally who is n better shape.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
This happened to me too. Back in EQ1 days, they called this "training". I didn't like it at all, because people would use it for griefing. I like it as a realistic concept though.
Just about all mobs that I've seen did have a distance where they would just walk away. What I noticed is that they seem to have an area that they won't leave and they drop aggro on anyone that leaves this area. This is especially true to NPCs within WvW, where they won't leave their guard post area for nothing. What that player must have done was leave their leash and then all the monsters noticed that you were still within range of their leash to kill you. To prevent dieing from a mob swarm that was following another player all I had to do was to run away.
It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
Yeah, pretty much this.
While I think some situations I encountered were accidental, and I even saw the players try to change course as to TRY to avoid pulling their mobs onto me, there was no doubt that other cases were deliberate, to the point of following me with large packs of mobs.
The fact that mobs can be attacked by another player-- and I haven't touched them-- yet they still turn on me because I'm within proximity of their chase path is another thing altogether, and it's just a crappy lack of mechanics no matter how you try to paint it.
It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
Yeah, pretty much this.
While I think some situations I encountered were accidental, and I even saw the players try to change course as to TRY to avoid pulling their mobs onto me, there was no doubt that other cases were deliberate, to the point of following me with large packs of mobs.
The fact that mobs can be attacked by another player-- and I haven't touched them-- yet they still turn on me because I'm within proximity of their chase path is another thing altogether, and it's just a crappy lack of mechanics no matter how you try to paint it.
Did we mention that there were no tanks or solid agro tables in this game? You can't blame a mechanic for something you failed to overcome.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Originally posted by heartless Have to be honest with you, the only time I noticed any mobs "shedding" was when I attacked them while they were following the other player. Sometimes the mobs will aggro onto you if the mobs are chasing the player, reset to their location and you're within their aggro range, as they are coming back.It's possible that you experienced some sort of a bug, which is normal, considering that the game is in beta. I would report this on the official beta forums just to make sure that the developers are aware of this issue.Also keep in mind that attacks in GW2 damage everything that's in range. It's not like other games where if a mob is locked onto me and hits me, it only attacks me. In GW2, if the mob attacks me and you're standing next to me, you'll get hit as well. It works both ways though. Most of your attacks hit multiple mobs as well. Provided that they are next to each other.One thing I want to note is that there are no camp spots in this game. Everyone gets XP and everyone gets their own loot. So if you're fighting a mob and I attack it, you get full XP, I get full XP and we both get drops from the mob. In other words, there is no tagging or stealing camps or whatever. The game is built around cooperation amongst people on the same server, not competition.
So all i have to do is stand there and receive rewards?
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It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
Yeah, pretty much this.
While I think some situations I encountered were accidental, and I even saw the players try to change course as to TRY to avoid pulling their mobs onto me, there was no doubt that other cases were deliberate, to the point of following me with large packs of mobs.
The fact that mobs can be attacked by another player-- and I haven't touched them-- yet they still turn on me because I'm within proximity of their chase path is another thing altogether, and it's just a crappy lack of mechanics no matter how you try to paint it.
You do know you could also run away.... if someone aggros lots of mobs the "no party" philosophy of the game should make those monsters attack all players in sight. What did you expect them to do? Just reset because the player who aggroed them first run away? Also I find it very hard to believe that something like this ever happened, it's very hard, if not impossible to pull a group of mobs on top of other players unless they are event mobs that spawn as part of an event. Otherwise it';s only logical for the other players to also run away isn;t it?
I find nothing wrong with the system. It would be annoying otherwise, I don't want an "aggro-based" mob AI, it's stupid and had been done for ages, it was about time that changed. What would happen with event mobs then? Or mobs that come as groups? Will they simply conviently reset? I don't see a problem with the mobs here but with the players.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Its no where close to EQ or UO, mobs had a huge range in those games, they would follow you for like 10 minutes before droping their agro and just vanish in thin air (in Uo they wouldn't even vanish but stay there was so good ;p). In GW2 their sticking to you range is ridiculously small, i don't think they run more than like 3 to 5 sec before going back to their spawn. Good luck to anyone trying to greif with that.
It really needs some tweaking though. On more than one occasion I took on a wandering mob, got it down to a sliver of health then it suddenly got fed up, made itself invulnerable and walked nonchalantly back to it's spawn point. That's nothing if not annoying.
So, I thought it was just an odd anomaly that happened because player-characters died close by and "aggro" shifted to the next living target, but I soon discovered that creatures in the game don't "leash" onto one particular target.
During "Heart Quest" events, players were pulling too many things, so they'd run them past me until some of the creatures shed themselves onto me. I thought, "fine, this is an event, and the creatures that spawn are going to go after everyone involved in the event." That was fine and I could accept that, BUT...
Realizing that I had completed various "Heart Quests" in the zone I was most appropriately leveled for, and not quite ready to make the jump to the next level zone, I thought I'd venture to some spot where I could grind some experience and maybe a better set of gear, and currency to pay for my repair bills and potential upgrades from the Trading House.
Well, apparently I had stumbled upon someone else's "camped" grinding spot, because they proceeded to pull massive amounts of mobs-- with attacks, NOT just running past them-- and then running through me to shed the mobs onto me.
At first, I figured I was safe, so I remained in one spot while these mobs chased them. Bad idea.
The mobs turned to me, the closest target, and proceeded to beat on me until I ran, died, or killed them off.
I "manned up". I took it in stride. I played EQ, I remember all too well the days of "TRAIN TO ZONE!" So, really I just took this as indicative of a shitty member of the community, and figured I'd just move somewhere else, but I had to ask myself, "SERIOUSLY?! That guy attacked those mobs, their threat should be entirely focused on HIM! WTF?!"
When I figured I had a decent set of gear to accept the next "Skill Challenge", I moved on to a new zone where the "Skill Challenge" resided. It was an area surrounded by aggressive mobs, some of them caster types, some of them brutal "Guardian" types with broadswords and nasty spin attacks. Duly noted, be careful of AOE and "splash damage" from nearby players... Well, that didn't work.
The "Skill Challenge" target was an aggressive Norn residing on a mountain, set back in a corraled area with a few henchmen. Someone decided to dive into the area and pull everything, including the "Skill Challenge" boss, then either realizing their mistake, or intentionally being pricks, they pulled the entire train on top of me while my back was turned further down the road, fighting my own pack of mobs. Needless to say, my character died.
I don't see regressions in mechanics such as this as anything "innovative". If I was playing EQ, and I was playing "safe" and sticking close to a zone border to avoid the inevitable "TRAIN TO ZONE" that regularly occurred, then I might find this somewhat acceptable. However, in this day and age of almost ALL other MMOs alleviating the concern for "trained aggro" with a "leashing" mechanic, I was unpleasantly surprised to find this lacking in GW2.
LOL don't play a warrior , had people dumping tons on mobs on me during events thanks to running them into my aoe attacks.
Comments
In Gw2 you can't keep aggro on one man. That's why tanking is not possible, and of course they would attack you.
Imagine this situation in real life: A man got attacked by a bear, he starts running, he passes through a group of people walking through the forest. Enraged bear attacks them instead. It's logical that everyone would run away seeing a man being chased by a freaking bear.
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Mob training is, sadly, a thing. I've seen it in BWE.
The odd part is it varies. If a player is lower on health, or does enough damage, the mob will peel off someone in mlee range to focus on them. My gf's ele, if she pewpewed a mob a few times before I got to it, could not shake it off even after I immobilized it and she ran a distance away while I stood there beating on it. Other times I had the mob no matter what. Weird.
It's a bad mechanic no matter how you spin it. Unless you're attacking the monster, or healing/buffing the person fighting the monster, there should be no reason for it to turn on you and attack while otherwise engaged.
The ONLY thing this mechanic accomplishes is a way to grief players.
^this.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
^and this.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If there's one thing I have noticed about the mechnics in gw2 its that Anet have thought carefully about what they want to happen.
Many things are refreshingly different.
It makes sense that mobs will attack like they do, the problem IMO was with how previous MMOs did this.
It makes you help people really. Yes you can train stuff onto other people and be a dick but I doubt that will be a huge case in that instance. If your attacking a lonely bear lets say, then all of a sudden from inside a cave out runs 2 or 3 mores bears, Im going to run unless Im full of health and if i see another person in my area ill run towards them for some help, most of the time they have helped me. A few times people have just run by while im getting my ass kicked though.
I always try to help people while im running around (unless Im dealing with a shit storm myself) and a majority of others seem to play the same way, from my experience so far anyway.
Actually grouped with a couple people that way and we stayed together for awhile after we helped each other out.
Not in direct context with the train thing, i like the way aggro works, in a event me and 2 other guys were attacking a champion, when one of us got low on helth he would flee and try to be ignored by the champion, if he suceeded, then he would try to not damage the champion and revive other fallen player while his health regenerated, while on other mmorpgs this would be fine, as when he was not attacking, he would be ignored, the aggro mechanic makes the champions sometimes randomly change the focus of his attack, making a more realistic fight, when you actually have to pay attention to what you are doing, what other ppl are doing and what the enemy is doing... made the fight hard, but had quite a bit of fun. just my opinion
Mobs take player health into account on aggro. They also seem to recognize healers and rezzers as a threat and will sometimes pursue them.
The problem is it still seems totally random sometimes, so aggro management it chaos. Best tactice I've found is stop worrying about aggro and blind/slow/immob/stun the hell out of the mob while rotating whatever defensive skills you have.
You got trained and you will again until ArenaNet removes people from doing it.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
yep, that was an issue when there was chaos in the battle, sometimes the mob would stick together, attack one dude all at once (though luck...) and/or split into different targets, i cant say its perfect, but with snares, etc it can be fun, not the best solution, but it still ads an element of random that i like in a game. as were in beta, i think over time we will understand better the mob mechanics, in gw1 they were studied better than some of my university classes
It's good as it is. If they run past you and see you within their radius they should attack you.
unless it sees you as a potential danger or easy kill
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I actually prefer it this way (as it was also handled i GW1) over the manner it is handled in other MMOs.
A mob, part of a group of mobs, chasing player A sees player B and realizes that if it kills player B it wont have to share the meal...and so switches.
Also, this allows one member of a group of players to potentially shed some mobs if he is getting low on health by, "scraping," them off on an ally who is n better shape.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
This happened to me too. Back in EQ1 days, they called this "training". I didn't like it at all, because people would use it for griefing. I like it as a realistic concept though.
Leashing should appeal to the open world gankers who have been complaining about not being able to attack players who are questing.
Just about all mobs that I've seen did have a distance where they would just walk away. What I noticed is that they seem to have an area that they won't leave and they drop aggro on anyone that leaves this area. This is especially true to NPCs within WvW, where they won't leave their guard post area for nothing. What that player must have done was leave their leash and then all the monsters noticed that you were still within range of their leash to kill you. To prevent dieing from a mob swarm that was following another player all I had to do was to run away.
Yeah, pretty much this.
While I think some situations I encountered were accidental, and I even saw the players try to change course as to TRY to avoid pulling their mobs onto me, there was no doubt that other cases were deliberate, to the point of following me with large packs of mobs.
The fact that mobs can be attacked by another player-- and I haven't touched them-- yet they still turn on me because I'm within proximity of their chase path is another thing altogether, and it's just a crappy lack of mechanics no matter how you try to paint it.
Did we mention that there were no tanks or solid agro tables in this game? You can't blame a mechanic for something you failed to overcome.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
So all i have to do is stand there and receive rewards?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
sounds like EQ1 lol...
I like it
You do know you could also run away.... if someone aggros lots of mobs the "no party" philosophy of the game should make those monsters attack all players in sight. What did you expect them to do? Just reset because the player who aggroed them first run away? Also I find it very hard to believe that something like this ever happened, it's very hard, if not impossible to pull a group of mobs on top of other players unless they are event mobs that spawn as part of an event. Otherwise it';s only logical for the other players to also run away isn;t it?
I find nothing wrong with the system. It would be annoying otherwise, I don't want an "aggro-based" mob AI, it's stupid and had been done for ages, it was about time that changed. What would happen with event mobs then? Or mobs that come as groups? Will they simply conviently reset? I don't see a problem with the mobs here but with the players.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Its no where close to EQ or UO, mobs had a huge range in those games, they would follow you for like 10 minutes
before droping their agro and just vanish in thin air (in Uo they wouldn't even vanish but stay there was so good ;p). In GW2 their sticking to you range is ridiculously small, i don't think they run more than like 3 to 5 sec before going back to their spawn. Good luck to anyone trying to greif with that.
It really needs some tweaking though. On more than one occasion I took on a wandering mob, got it down to a sliver of health then it suddenly got fed up, made itself invulnerable and walked nonchalantly back to it's spawn point. That's nothing if not annoying.
LOL don't play a warrior , had people dumping tons on mobs on me during events thanks to running them into my aoe attacks.