Guild Wars 2 has taken several steps to stop the "hey, this is my MOB" mentality, but I don't assume that everyone will abandon it. If someone in the game doesn't want my help, I will say "I am sorry", respect their choice and move on.
That doesn't mean you won't help the next person. I wonder if I ever meet anyone that won't need my help. It didn't happen after all the hours in BWE+stress test+BWE2 and I'm 99% that it won't happen at release. The sooner everyone abandons that mentality the better for the game.
You are right that it doesn't automatically mean that one wouldn't help the next person because of one bad experience. Which is why I used the example with offering elderly people seats at the bus: a few bad experiences is all it takes. Which is why I don't find it surprising when a person who is normally helpful claims they have stopped being helpful due to a few bad experiences.
It is annoying yes, but it actually is logical as well.
If you kick a hornet nests they will sting everyone around and wont just return home after stinging you or you gotten 50 yards from there.
Right. However, all living creatures don't react the same way hornets do.
Ideally, the "agro" behavior is dictated independently by species...in those dream worlds where the ai functions rationally in any imaginable situation.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't get it. You see a massive horde of angry mobs running toward you (currently focused on someone else or otherwise), and your instinct is to just stand there? Why not just move? If the other player can kite them, so can you. Moreover, while the other player has present aggro, you can pick off the others one by one with little danger and almost no damage taken. This should amount to an easier time grinding (though I do question why one would try to "grind" anything in this game) for you.
Proximity is intended to be a primary aggro drawer--and it's actually quite logical. Players do it all the time. When surrounded by enemies and you can't catch your primary target, you may switch to a closer target, at least until the guy you were chasing dares to come back within range.
Originally posted by tank017 sounds like EQ1 lol...I like it
Its no where close to EQ or UO, mobs had a huge range in those games, they would follow you for like 10 minutes before droping their agro and just vanish in thin air (in Uo they wouldn't even vanish but stay there was so good ;p). In GW2 their sticking to you range is ridiculously small, i don't think they run more than like 3 to 5 sec before going back to their spawn. Good luck to anyone trying to greif with that.
You sure they used to disappear in EQ1? I thought they used to bimble slowly back - after what seemed like an age, but I could be wrong. Happy days...training the zone to the entrance of castle mistmoor and wondering why the crowd stood outside aren't zoning in, like I was, to avoid the train... Only to find they just trained OUT of MM and the things inside are much worse. Naked corpse run fun all round
Originally posted by heartless Have to be honest with you, the only time I noticed any mobs "shedding" was when I attacked them while they were following the other player. Sometimes the mobs will aggro onto you if the mobs are chasing the player, reset to their location and you're within their aggro range, as they are coming back.
It's possible that you experienced some sort of a bug, which is normal, considering that the game is in beta. I would report this on the official beta forums just to make sure that the developers are aware of this issue.
Also keep in mind that attacks in GW2 damage everything that's in range. It's not like other games where if a mob is locked onto me and hits me, it only attacks me. In GW2, if the mob attacks me and you're standing next to me, you'll get hit as well. It works both ways though. Most of your attacks hit multiple mobs as well. Provided that they are next to each other.
One thing I want to note is that there are no camp spots in this game. Everyone gets XP and everyone gets their own loot. So if you're fighting a mob and I attack it, you get full XP, I get full XP and we both get drops from the mob. In other words, there is no tagging or stealing camps or whatever. The game is built around cooperation amongst people on the same server, not competition.
So all i have to do is stand there and receive rewards?
No. The game takes your participation into account.
So, I thought it was just an odd anomaly that happened because player-characters died close by and "aggro" shifted to the next living target, but I soon discovered that creatures in the game don't "leash" onto one particular target.
During "Heart Quest" events, players were pulling too many things, so they'd run them past me until some of the creatures shed themselves onto me. I thought, "fine, this is an event, and the creatures that spawn are going to go after everyone involved in the event." That was fine and I could accept that, BUT...
Realizing that I had completed various "Heart Quests" in the zone I was most appropriately leveled for, and not quite ready to make the jump to the next level zone, I thought I'd venture to some spot where I could grind some experience and maybe a better set of gear, and currency to pay for my repair bills and potential upgrades from the Trading House.
Well, apparently I had stumbled upon someone else's "camped" grinding spot, because they proceeded to pull massive amounts of mobs-- with attacks, NOT just running past them-- and then running through me to shed the mobs onto me.
At first, I figured I was safe, so I remained in one spot while these mobs chased them. Bad idea.
The mobs turned to me, the closest target, and proceeded to beat on me until I ran, died, or killed them off.
I "manned up". I took it in stride. I played EQ, I remember all too well the days of "TRAIN TO ZONE!" So, really I just took this as indicative of a shitty member of the community, and figured I'd just move somewhere else, but I had to ask myself, "SERIOUSLY?! That guy attacked those mobs, their threat should be entirely focused on HIM! WTF?!"
When I figured I had a decent set of gear to accept the next "Skill Challenge", I moved on to a new zone where the "Skill Challenge" resided. It was an area surrounded by aggressive mobs, some of them caster types, some of them brutal "Guardian" types with broadswords and nasty spin attacks. Duly noted, be careful of AOE and "splash damage" from nearby players... Well, that didn't work.
The "Skill Challenge" target was an aggressive Norn residing on a mountain, set back in a corraled area with a few henchmen. Someone decided to dive into the area and pull everything, including the "Skill Challenge" boss, then either realizing their mistake, or intentionally being pricks, they pulled the entire train on top of me while my back was turned further down the road, fighting my own pack of mobs. Needless to say, my character died.
I don't see regressions in mechanics such as this as anything "innovative". If I was playing EQ, and I was playing "safe" and sticking close to a zone border to avoid the inevitable "TRAIN TO ZONE" that regularly occurred, then I might find this somewhat acceptable. However, in this day and age of almost ALL other MMOs alleviating the concern for "trained aggro" with a "leashing" mechanic, I was unpleasantly surprised to find this lacking in GW2.
Yeah, how dare they make a fantasy world full of monsters and heroes that's actually fraught with danger, rather than just full of boogeymen that go away when you pull the blankets over your head.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I never had this happen to me. Sounds like a bunch of bads/douche bags on your server. Even then, I would probably welcome more mobs to kill.
I don't really understand the problem though. If you see someone running towards you with a ton of mobs, don't just stand there and die. Then you let it happen again? Did you not learn the first time?
It is amazing some of the posts on these forums. It is like complaining about getting hit by a train when you were standing on the tracks. The only thing you can really say is, "learn to play". You should have figured out the mob aggro/hate mechanics in the first 5 minutes of play, it is blatently obvious even when doing the very first quest in the starting area.
Honestly, I would like to see the mobs get even smarter, possibly some algorithm that would have a priority over a player with lower health at a certain distance than just the closest player. Maybe something for hard mode/explorable dungeons? Either way, I have no problem with the current mob mechanics, and it feels quite refreshing compared to every other MMO out there.
The last game I remember having AI that was actually smart was EQ. Was hilarious having someone in another group drop below 20%, and every mob within 50 yards comes sprinting over to finish them off. Calling for help, social aggro, aggro by sound/smell/sight (like FFXI). All of this stuff adds immersion and realism to the game. Bring it all on I say.
If you are so completely unaware of your surroundings that someone can train mobs to you without you noticing what is going on and can't react to it, then you deserve to die a horrible death by 20 bears. Not that you can actually train 20 bears because the mobs ARE tethered to a limited amount of distance.
This is the biggest downside of GW2 i think , need more viewing space /area / ( = need more zoom out to see things ) , you may not see them until it is too late .
Limited view with ranged npcs ( archrs etc ) a real problem while you concentrated to save yourself from some another npcs i think.
Originally posted by heartless Have to be honest with you, the only time I noticed any mobs "shedding" was when I attacked them while they were following the other player. Sometimes the mobs will aggro onto you if the mobs are chasing the player, reset to their location and you're within their aggro range, as they are coming back.
It's possible that you experienced some sort of a bug, which is normal, considering that the game is in beta. I would report this on the official beta forums just to make sure that the developers are aware of this issue.
Also keep in mind that attacks in GW2 damage everything that's in range. It's not like other games where if a mob is locked onto me and hits me, it only attacks me. In GW2, if the mob attacks me and you're standing next to me, you'll get hit as well. It works both ways though. Most of your attacks hit multiple mobs as well. Provided that they are next to each other.
One thing I want to note is that there are no camp spots in this game. Everyone gets XP and everyone gets their own loot. So if you're fighting a mob and I attack it, you get full XP, I get full XP and we both get drops from the mob. In other words, there is no tagging or stealing camps or whatever. The game is built around cooperation amongst people on the same server, not competition.
So all i have to do is stand there and receive rewards?
No. The game takes your participation into account.
Next time press B and Google it.
Mostly.
Funny story. I was on one of my myriad alts last BWE, a Norn Warrior. My girl wanted to raise up her ranger so I met up with her and played a bit. Something came up though, so I ducked into a hut in some village and chilled a bit while I was on the phone. A DE appeared, but I just stayed in my hut. I took no action at all. Imagine my surprise when I got a "silver" award for the DE.
Lol completely ditch the game..seriously. The way game has been desgined it focuses on team play, i don't go around running in de's solo i joina gorup and communicate and work as a team. If i see a player engaged with mobs i don't help unless he asks for it. There is plenty of coperation to be had in GW2 through grouping i really doubt discouraging griefing by way of training mobs will make Anet go back to drawing boards.
Why not help the player if he is engaged with mobs? I always help everyone because everyone wins. I still don't understand what is exactly you want. Discouraging griefing what do you mean by that? Don't allow mobs to follow ALL players around them but only those engaged in someway? That will (and should) never happen. What will happen in events then? What will happen when the Centaurs for example attack the city? Who is aggroing there? Who is having the aggro? The npcs? And the mobs should avoid the players near the fort and instead attack the npcs only? Why would anyone want that?
Because sometimes players don't want help? it is rude just to jump in on assumption that he he needs help. i have tried that end result was that player iw as trying to help just got pissed off.
Do you run around solo during DE's? because i am always in group so there is no chace of the 'griefing' situation to arise.
Have you even played the game?
Yes, why? i am talking about trying to help random people minding their own business who don't need help or want to be bothered. A lot of things outside DE's can be done solo and not everyone wants to be helped all the time, i was answering regarding 'why not help other' question.
If I am near someone that is attacking a mo I will ALWAYS help help regardless if he needs it or not, because I get rewarded for it as well and the mob will die doubly fast rewarding me even faster then if it was tackled solo. If you dont want people helping you kill mobs when they see you then might I suggest one of the million other MMO's out there that cater to "tagging it belongs to me" mentality.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I don't see regressions in mechanics such as this as anything "innovative".
I don't think anyone said this was innovative? The aggro mechanic like you explained is the same as it was in GW1. It would also be pretty stupid if they decided to have an "aggro leach" mechanic, after all the effort they're putting into removing dedicated tanks from the game.
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
I never had this happen to me. Sounds like a bunch of bads/douche bags on your server. Even then, I would probably welcome more mobs to kill.
I don't really understand the problem though. If you see someone running towards you with a ton of mobs, don't just stand there and die. Then you let it happen again? Did you not learn the first time?
Little things like this get spotlighted when there's nothing else to complain about. It's like complaining about a game mechanic that inconveniences you because your greatest regret in life is that you "never joined the circus".
Worst case scenario for GW2 is you get trained, fail to react and die only to have to release to a nearby node and lose some bronze in repair costs. It's not like EQ where you could lose hours recovering a corpse, hours of exp as well as the items on your corpse if you fail to recover your corpse.
I bet it took longer to post this reply than it would take to recover from a GW2 death and took more thought than attempting to escape a GW2 train. I don't think we need to lower the bar any further.
Originally posted by heartless Have to be honest with you, the only time I noticed any mobs "shedding" was when I attacked them while they were following the other player. Sometimes the mobs will aggro onto you if the mobs are chasing the player, reset to their location and you're within their aggro range, as they are coming back.
It's possible that you experienced some sort of a bug, which is normal, considering that the game is in beta. I would report this on the official beta forums just to make sure that the developers are aware of this issue.
Also keep in mind that attacks in GW2 damage everything that's in range. It's not like other games where if a mob is locked onto me and hits me, it only attacks me. In GW2, if the mob attacks me and you're standing next to me, you'll get hit as well. It works both ways though. Most of your attacks hit multiple mobs as well. Provided that they are next to each other.
One thing I want to note is that there are no camp spots in this game. Everyone gets XP and everyone gets their own loot. So if you're fighting a mob and I attack it, you get full XP, I get full XP and we both get drops from the mob. In other words, there is no tagging or stealing camps or whatever. The game is built around cooperation amongst people on the same server, not competition.
So all i have to do is stand there and receive rewards?
No, you can't just stand there and receive rewards. You have to do some damage, and a reasonable amount and then you share in xp and rewards. Mobs don't "lock" to the person who originally attacked them. That's kind of the point of this thread.
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
It's also realistic that when you die, you're dead permanently. But that wouldn't be fun in a game like this, right? Neither is giving douche bags the tools to intentionally kill you.
In reponse to many of the GW2 hardcore fans ( I won't say fanboys, because that's not necessarily the case ), you keep defending this mechanic and claiming that it's the onus of each individual player to not fall victim to a griefer. I'm hearing a lot of " shut up and pay attention and this won't happen".
You're blaming the victim here, and all of you know just as well as I do that there are people in your game world who want to intentionally hurt you, and will use any tool in their belt to make that happen. If we lived in a world where people would only use this mechanic responsibly and for it's challenge, then that would be one thing. But we don't live in that world, and this is a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, though, Anet has shown a history of limiting ways players can be griefed, and I have no doubt they'll be changing this mechanic.
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
It's also realistic that when you die, you're dead permanently. But that wouldn't be fun in a game like this, right? Neither is giving douche bags the tools to intentionally kill you.
Many of the GW2 hardcore fans ( I won't say fanboys, because that's not necessarily the case ), keep defending this mechanic and claiming that it's the onus of each individual player to not fall victim to a griefer. I'm hearing a lot of " shut up and pay attention and this won't happen".
You're blaming the victim here, and all of you know just as well as I do that there are people in your game world who want to intentionally hurt you, and will use any tool in their belt to make that happen. If we lived in a world where people would only use this mechanic responsibly and for it's challenge, then that would be one thing. But we don't live in that world, and this is a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, though, Anet has shown a history of limiting ways players can be griefed, and I have no doubt they'll be changing this mechanic.
Meh, you seem upset... whatever... lol
I never told the guy to shut up and stop whining and I never pointed a finger of blame on him or the people who trained the mobs. I simply gave an analogy and gave my personal opinion. If that's the way you feel about that mecanic then, hey, it is what it is. If Anet does change it then hey I'll still be happy. I remember in FFXI it was called MPK (Monster Player Killing) or whatever. I hated it at first but man it's a game and like you said you don't die permanently although it interupts your flow of experience it's just a game.
Like you said, in real life you don't die permanently and yes there are people in the game world that are vindictive but those same people are the ones that are vindictive in game... You're just just looking interacting with them virtually, remember that >.>
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
It's also realistic that when you die, you're dead permanently. But that wouldn't be fun in a game like this, right? Neither is giving douche bags the tools to intentionally kill you.
Many of the GW2 hardcore fans ( I won't say fanboys, because that's not necessarily the case ), keep defending this mechanic and claiming that it's the onus of each individual player to not fall victim to a griefer. I'm hearing a lot of " shut up and pay attention and this won't happen".
You're blaming the victim here, and all of you know just as well as I do that there are people in your game world who want to intentionally hurt you, and will use any tool in their belt to make that happen. If we lived in a world where people would only use this mechanic responsibly and for it's challenge, then that would be one thing. But we don't live in that world, and this is a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, though, Anet has shown a history of limiting ways players can be griefed, and I have no doubt they'll be changing this mechanic.
Meh, you seem upset... whatever... lol
I never told the guy to shut up and stop whining and I never pointed a finger of blame on him or the people who trained the mobs. I simply gave an analogy and gave my personal opinion. If that's the way you feel about that mecanic then, hey, it is what it is. If Anet does change it then hey I'll still be happy. I remember in FFXI it was called MPK (Monster Player Killing) or whatever. I hated it at first but man it's a game and like you said you don't die permanently although it interupts your flow of experience it's just a game.
Like you said, in real life you don't die permanently and yes there are people in the game world that are vindictive but those same people are the ones that are vindictive in game... You're just just looking interacting with them virtually, remember that >.>
Sorry, I didn't mean to lump you in with the second portion of my post about blaming others. That was meant as a more general response to the thread as a whole. People are confusing hand holding with a game fixing a legitimate issue. I'll go back and edit to make that clearer.
Unfortunately it's difficult to infer tone in the written word, and you've missed the mark entirely on my emotional state. I'm just trying to discuss an issue and argue my viewpoint. Emotion doesn't really play into this at all.
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
It's also realistic that when you die, you're dead permanently. But that wouldn't be fun in a game like this, right? Neither is giving douche bags the tools to intentionally kill you.
Many of the GW2 hardcore fans ( I won't say fanboys, because that's not necessarily the case ), keep defending this mechanic and claiming that it's the onus of each individual player to not fall victim to a griefer. I'm hearing a lot of " shut up and pay attention and this won't happen".
You're blaming the victim here, and all of you know just as well as I do that there are people in your game world who want to intentionally hurt you, and will use any tool in their belt to make that happen. If we lived in a world where people would only use this mechanic responsibly and for it's challenge, then that would be one thing. But we don't live in that world, and this is a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, though, Anet has shown a history of limiting ways players can be griefed, and I have no doubt they'll be changing this mechanic.
Meh, you seem upset... whatever... lol
I never told the guy to shut up and stop whining and I never pointed a finger of blame on him or the people who trained the mobs. I simply gave an analogy and gave my personal opinion. If that's the way you feel about that mecanic then, hey, it is what it is. If Anet does change it then hey I'll still be happy. I remember in FFXI it was called MPK (Monster Player Killing) or whatever. I hated it at first but man it's a game and like you said you don't die permanently although it interupts your flow of experience it's just a game.
Like you said, in real life you don't die permanently and yes there are people in the game world that are vindictive but those same people are the ones that are vindictive in game... You're just just looking interacting with them virtually, remember that >.>
Sorry, I didn't mean to lump you in with the second portion of my post about blaming others. That was meant as a more general response to the thread as a whole. People are confusing hand holding with a game fixing a legitimate issue. I'll go back and edit to make that clearer.
Unfortunately it's difficult to infer tone in the written word, and you've missed the mark entirely on my emotional state. I'm just trying to discuss an issue and argue my viewpoint. Emotion doesn't really play into this at all.
It's all good man, I totally understand now...
I didnt read everyone else post, I'm actually at work and only took time to read the OP lol.
I never had this happen to me. Sounds like a bunch of bads/douche bags on your server. Even then, I would probably welcome more mobs to kill.
I don't really understand the problem though. If you see someone running towards you with a ton of mobs, don't just stand there and die. Then you let it happen again? Did you not learn the first time?
Little things like this get spotlighted when there's nothing else to complain about. It's like complaining about a game mechanic that inconveniences you because your greatest regret in life is that you "never joined the circus".
Worst case scenario for GW2 is you get trained, fail to react and die only to have to release to a nearby node and lose some bronze in repair costs. It's not like EQ where you could lose hours recovering a corpse, hours of exp as well as the items on your corpse if you fail to recover your corpse.
I bet it took longer to post this reply than it would take to recover from a GW2 death and took more thought than attempting to escape a GW2 train. I don't think we need to lower the bar any further.
You might be right but that's not really the point. Two things will happen if this mechanic isn't changed.
1. People will grief this to no end. These are not the old EQ days where gaming communities where tight and this kind of thing could be handled by social means. If GW2 leaves this in game at launch it will be widly abused by mass numbers of people.
2. People will complain about it publicly. On the GW2 forums, on gamesite forums like this, on review sites, etc. Those complaints will work their way over to "professional" reveiwers as well.
The fact is ANET can either fix this issue now and call it part of the beta process or wait till a few months after launch when it's leading to tons of bad press and fix it than as a oversight of development. Sooner or later they will have to fix it however.
I figured I was safe, so I remained in one spot while these mobs chased them. Bad idea.
It seems in your original post you both identified the problem and the solution all at once here.
I do sometimes blame the victim.
In one game i play people yell in public chat for hours on end that if you send them millions of units of in-game currency they promise to send you 10 times that amount back. It does suck those people are being that way but at the same time those who fall for it should maybe just learn the lesson not to fall for such dumb scams.
I don't feel its too different in the case of the original poster. When I see the barbarian hordes running at me with a guy in front of them running for dear life I don't think to myself "hmm, i'll just stand still and see how this all works out." I instead run or at the very least attempt to move out of the way. This is just a case of someone being far too accustomed to some other games and the way they work -- even to the point of expecting something so utterly unrealistic that they could just stand still and the barbarian horde would not notice them.
I'm actually shocked anyone would support someone saying somethign to the effect of "So i saw the horde of monsters streaming in and I just stood there and I can't believe i died! wtf!!!"
Originally posted by udonTwo things will happen if this mechanic isn't changed.
1. People will grief this to no end. These are not the old EQ days where gaming communities where tight and this kind of thing could be handled by social means. If GW2 leaves this in game at launch it will be widly abused by mass numbers of people.
2. People will complain about it publicly. On the GW2 forums, on gamesite forums like this, on review sites, etc. Those complaints will work their way over to "professional" reveiwers as well.
The fact is ANET can either fix this issue now and call it part of the beta process or wait till a few months after launch when it's leading to tons of bad press and fix it than as a oversight of development. Sooner or later they will have to fix it however.
I really don't see it being abused by 'mass numbers of people'. Why? Due to how the EXP mechanics works. Could it be abused on occasion? I guess so. But I don't think it will become an issue, due to the cooperative nature of the game.
And people complain publicly about pretty much anything nowadays. That's business as usual.
It's a real shame that somebody could turn around a grief someone while they stood there and let them do it. The developers better do something, or all the people that refuse to save themselves will end up naked.
It's a real shame that somebody could turn around a grief someone while they stood there and let them do it. The developers better do something, or all the people that refuse to save themselves will end up naked.
Scenario: You're doing a challenge event solo, tackling 3 really tough monsters and dedicating your attention to that. You get monsters 1 and 2 down. You focus on the last one and from behind you, out of your vision, comes a griefer training 3 more monsters that immediately attack you and kill you.
But I guess that's your fault for letting them do it.
The point I'm illustrating here is that you won't always be standing there and letting someone train on you, and when it happens it's going to suck.
It's a real shame that somebody could turn around a grief someone while they stood there and let them do it. The developers better do something, or all the people that refuse to save themselves will end up naked.
Scenario: You're doing a challenge event solo, tackling 3 really tough monsters and dedicating your attention to that. You get monsters 1 and 2 down. You focus on the last one and from behind you, out of your vision, comes a griefer training 3 more monsters that immediately attack you and kill you.
But I guess that's your fault for letting them do it.
The point I'm illustrating here is that you won't always be standing there and letting someone train on you, and when it happens it's going to suck.
something similar happen to me but I still don't want it to change, the reason being it doesn't happen frequently enough to cause problems, but changing it will make more leash way too fast like they already do now. I don't see this problem as a serious enough issue because gw2 has a way to make people behave nice to their fellow players (PvE only btw, not WvW, cuz i was definately trolling people on chat, not griefing).
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You are right that it doesn't automatically mean that one wouldn't help the next person because of one bad experience. Which is why I used the example with offering elderly people seats at the bus: a few bad experiences is all it takes. Which is why I don't find it surprising when a person who is normally helpful claims they have stopped being helpful due to a few bad experiences.
Right. However, all living creatures don't react the same way hornets do.
Ideally, the "agro" behavior is dictated independently by species...in those dream worlds where the ai functions rationally in any imaginable situation.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't get it. You see a massive horde of angry mobs running toward you (currently focused on someone else or otherwise), and your instinct is to just stand there? Why not just move? If the other player can kite them, so can you. Moreover, while the other player has present aggro, you can pick off the others one by one with little danger and almost no damage taken. This should amount to an easier time grinding (though I do question why one would try to "grind" anything in this game) for you.
Proximity is intended to be a primary aggro drawer--and it's actually quite logical. Players do it all the time. When surrounded by enemies and you can't catch your primary target, you may switch to a closer target, at least until the guy you were chasing dares to come back within range.
i was accidentely realised that you can run through some player and the mobs sticks on to them
In a starter area a wasp nearly had me down so I ran next to a person who was afk
the wasp stopped chasing me and went after the afk toon standing there
Its no where close to EQ or UO, mobs had a huge range in those games, they would follow you for like 10 minutes
before droping their agro and just vanish in thin air (in Uo they wouldn't even vanish but stay there was so good ;p). In GW2 their sticking to you range is ridiculously small, i don't think they run more than like 3 to 5 sec before going back to their spawn. Good luck to anyone trying to greif with that.
You sure they used to disappear in EQ1? I thought they used to bimble slowly back - after what seemed like an age, but I could be wrong. Happy days...training the zone to the entrance of castle mistmoor and wondering why the crowd stood outside aren't zoning in, like I was, to avoid the train... Only to find they just trained OUT of MM and the things inside are much worse. Naked corpse run fun all roundNo. The game takes your participation into account.
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Yeah, how dare they make a fantasy world full of monsters and heroes that's actually fraught with danger, rather than just full of boogeymen that go away when you pull the blankets over your head.
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I never had this happen to me. Sounds like a bunch of bads/douche bags on your server. Even then, I would probably welcome more mobs to kill.
I don't really understand the problem though. If you see someone running towards you with a ton of mobs, don't just stand there and die. Then you let it happen again? Did you not learn the first time?
It is amazing some of the posts on these forums. It is like complaining about getting hit by a train when you were standing on the tracks. The only thing you can really say is, "learn to play". You should have figured out the mob aggro/hate mechanics in the first 5 minutes of play, it is blatently obvious even when doing the very first quest in the starting area.
Honestly, I would like to see the mobs get even smarter, possibly some algorithm that would have a priority over a player with lower health at a certain distance than just the closest player. Maybe something for hard mode/explorable dungeons? Either way, I have no problem with the current mob mechanics, and it feels quite refreshing compared to every other MMO out there.
The last game I remember having AI that was actually smart was EQ. Was hilarious having someone in another group drop below 20%, and every mob within 50 yards comes sprinting over to finish them off. Calling for help, social aggro, aggro by sound/smell/sight (like FFXI). All of this stuff adds immersion and realism to the game. Bring it all on I say.
This is the biggest downside of GW2 i think , need more viewing space /area / ( = need more zoom out to see things ) , you may not see them until it is too late .
Limited view with ranged npcs ( archrs etc ) a real problem while you concentrated to save yourself from some another npcs i think.
Mostly.
Funny story. I was on one of my myriad alts last BWE, a Norn Warrior. My girl wanted to raise up her ranger so I met up with her and played a bit. Something came up though, so I ducked into a hut in some village and chilled a bit while I was on the phone. A DE appeared, but I just stayed in my hut. I took no action at all. Imagine my surprise when I got a "silver" award for the DE.
I suspect it wasn't working as intended. /bugged.
If I am near someone that is attacking a mo I will ALWAYS help help regardless if he needs it or not, because I get rewarded for it as well and the mob will die doubly fast rewarding me even faster then if it was tackled solo. If you dont want people helping you kill mobs when they see you then might I suggest one of the million other MMO's out there that cater to "tagging it belongs to me" mentality.
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i think the whole chat ends there .
If I was being chased by a pit bull and ran down a back alley where you were standing; imagine if I hopped over a fence and left you standing there because I pissed the dog off and now it wanted to eat me. Tell me, what would the dog do now that it can't get to me anymore because I escaped and you're the only one standing there?
I doubt it would just walk away, infact I believe the dog would be satisfied in taking it's stress out on you in my abscence. Maybe some recunstructive surgery would probably be in order after that encounter.
Edit- My point was I don't see anything wrong with that, though it's annoying, it's more realistic.
Little things like this get spotlighted when there's nothing else to complain about. It's like complaining about a game mechanic that inconveniences you because your greatest regret in life is that you "never joined the circus".
Worst case scenario for GW2 is you get trained, fail to react and die only to have to release to a nearby node and lose some bronze in repair costs. It's not like EQ where you could lose hours recovering a corpse, hours of exp as well as the items on your corpse if you fail to recover your corpse.
I bet it took longer to post this reply than it would take to recover from a GW2 death and took more thought than attempting to escape a GW2 train. I don't think we need to lower the bar any further.
No, you can't just stand there and receive rewards. You have to do some damage, and a reasonable amount and then you share in xp and rewards. Mobs don't "lock" to the person who originally attacked them. That's kind of the point of this thread.
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It's also realistic that when you die, you're dead permanently. But that wouldn't be fun in a game like this, right? Neither is giving douche bags the tools to intentionally kill you.
In reponse to many of the GW2 hardcore fans ( I won't say fanboys, because that's not necessarily the case ), you keep defending this mechanic and claiming that it's the onus of each individual player to not fall victim to a griefer. I'm hearing a lot of " shut up and pay attention and this won't happen".
You're blaming the victim here, and all of you know just as well as I do that there are people in your game world who want to intentionally hurt you, and will use any tool in their belt to make that happen. If we lived in a world where people would only use this mechanic responsibly and for it's challenge, then that would be one thing. But we don't live in that world, and this is a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, though, Anet has shown a history of limiting ways players can be griefed, and I have no doubt they'll be changing this mechanic.
Meh, you seem upset... whatever... lol
I never told the guy to shut up and stop whining and I never pointed a finger of blame on him or the people who trained the mobs. I simply gave an analogy and gave my personal opinion. If that's the way you feel about that mecanic then, hey, it is what it is. If Anet does change it then hey I'll still be happy. I remember in FFXI it was called MPK (Monster Player Killing) or whatever. I hated it at first but man it's a game and like you said you don't die permanently although it interupts your flow of experience it's just a game.
Like you said, in real life you don't die permanently and yes there are people in the game world that are vindictive but those same people are the ones that are vindictive in game... You're just just looking interacting with them virtually, remember that >.>
Sorry, I didn't mean to lump you in with the second portion of my post about blaming others. That was meant as a more general response to the thread as a whole. People are confusing hand holding with a game fixing a legitimate issue. I'll go back and edit to make that clearer.
Unfortunately it's difficult to infer tone in the written word, and you've missed the mark entirely on my emotional state. I'm just trying to discuss an issue and argue my viewpoint. Emotion doesn't really play into this at all.
It's all good man, I totally understand now...
I didnt read everyone else post, I'm actually at work and only took time to read the OP lol.
So I guess I kinda took the lazy way out.
You might be right but that's not really the point. Two things will happen if this mechanic isn't changed.
1. People will grief this to no end. These are not the old EQ days where gaming communities where tight and this kind of thing could be handled by social means. If GW2 leaves this in game at launch it will be widly abused by mass numbers of people.
2. People will complain about it publicly. On the GW2 forums, on gamesite forums like this, on review sites, etc. Those complaints will work their way over to "professional" reveiwers as well.
The fact is ANET can either fix this issue now and call it part of the beta process or wait till a few months after launch when it's leading to tons of bad press and fix it than as a oversight of development. Sooner or later they will have to fix it however.
It seems in your original post you both identified the problem and the solution all at once here.
I do sometimes blame the victim.
In one game i play people yell in public chat for hours on end that if you send them millions of units of in-game currency they promise to send you 10 times that amount back. It does suck those people are being that way but at the same time those who fall for it should maybe just learn the lesson not to fall for such dumb scams.
I don't feel its too different in the case of the original poster. When I see the barbarian hordes running at me with a guy in front of them running for dear life I don't think to myself "hmm, i'll just stand still and see how this all works out." I instead run or at the very least attempt to move out of the way. This is just a case of someone being far too accustomed to some other games and the way they work -- even to the point of expecting something so utterly unrealistic that they could just stand still and the barbarian horde would not notice them.
I'm actually shocked anyone would support someone saying somethign to the effect of "So i saw the horde of monsters streaming in and I just stood there and I can't believe i died! wtf!!!"
I really don't see it being abused by 'mass numbers of people'. Why? Due to how the EXP mechanics works. Could it be abused on occasion? I guess so. But I don't think it will become an issue, due to the cooperative nature of the game.
And people complain publicly about pretty much anything nowadays. That's business as usual.
It's a real shame that somebody could turn around a grief someone while they stood there and let them do it. The developers better do something, or all the people that refuse to save themselves will end up naked.
Scenario: You're doing a challenge event solo, tackling 3 really tough monsters and dedicating your attention to that. You get monsters 1 and 2 down. You focus on the last one and from behind you, out of your vision, comes a griefer training 3 more monsters that immediately attack you and kill you.
But I guess that's your fault for letting them do it.
The point I'm illustrating here is that you won't always be standing there and letting someone train on you, and when it happens it's going to suck.
something similar happen to me but I still don't want it to change, the reason being it doesn't happen frequently enough to cause problems, but changing it will make more leash way too fast like they already do now. I don't see this problem as a serious enough issue because gw2 has a way to make people behave nice to their fellow players (PvE only btw, not WvW, cuz i was definately trolling people on chat, not griefing).