You said it yourself, narius. If it is a really good game that is adequately updated, there is "value" in sticking around. This genre is about progressing your character, so why bother in the first place if it's ultimately just a disposable title? A great mmo keeps people wanting more. Crap mmos do not.
While you may fancy the trendy behaviour of game hopping, it is a serious sign that something is wrong with the industry. Remember, we're not talking about SPGs here. You shouldn't want to skip around like a school girl from game to game.
Sad only begins to describe the current state of the genre.
Yeah, but the converse is not true. If it is a good game but with limited content, why wouldn't i play a few hours and move on? There is no reason why i shouldn't have a few weeks, or days of fun?
Sticking around is an option, not a must.
And why would game hopping be bad? Seeking variety is a human nature. Certainly i am not saying there is anything wrong to stick with a game, but i don't see it as a must-have for a good game.
So what is wrong to play many games, and having fun at each of them?
Nothing. But do we not have enough genres that already compliment game hopping? Why not have a genre of games that are played long term alongside the quick cheap thrills types of games?
I came into this genre with the hope of making my nest and living in a new game world. I've managed to pull that off twice in 8 bloody years. It has been far from a let down, and I consider myself lucky to have experienced what I have, but I never dreamt such a potentially amazing gaming genre would stagnate and rot into such an aberration.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
That's what the box sale model encourages: massive hype. They make their money up front and it's mostly irrelevant whether you actually enjoy the game.
It might not be sustainable in the long run (your next game isn't going to sell well if your previous one burned players), but certainly that's what the B2P model encourages.
Personally I find F2P games to be much more palatable, although MMORPG F2P games specifically have had a bizarrely hard time latching onto the right game design to make it work (despite it being kinda obvious.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You said it yourself, narius. If it is a really good game that is adequately updated, there is "value" in sticking around. This genre is about progressing your character, so why bother in the first place if it's ultimately just a disposable title? A great mmo keeps people wanting more. Crap mmos do not.
While you may fancy the trendy behaviour of game hopping, it is a serious sign that something is wrong with the industry. Remember, we're not talking about SPGs here. You shouldn't want to skip around like a school girl from game to game.
Sad only begins to describe the current state of the genre.
Yeah, but the converse is not true. If it is a good game but with limited content, why wouldn't i play a few hours and move on? There is no reason why i shouldn't have a few weeks, or days of fun?
Sticking around is an option, not a must.
And why would game hopping be bad? Seeking variety is a human nature. Certainly i am not saying there is anything wrong to stick with a game, but i don't see it as a must-have for a good game.
So what is wrong to play many games, and having fun at each of them?
Nothing. But do we not have enough genres that already compliment game hopping? Why not have a genre of games that are played long term alongside the quick cheap thrills types of games?
Because people like variety? You will ONLY have a genre of long term games if there are enough demand for long term games. Do we?
I came into this genre with the hope of making my nest and living in a new game world. I've managed to pull that off twice in 8 bloody years. It has been far from a let down, and I consider myself lucky to have experienced what I have, but I never dreamt such a potentially amazing gaming genre would stagnate and rot into such an aberration.
I get it that you like long term games. I am neutral. I won't pay extra for long term games, and if i am not entertained, i am out of here and hop onto the next one. The real question is whether there are enough of you to warrant significant investment and i think we have the answer in the trending of the market.
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Just checking, so I am clear on it, you are asking me how SWtOR was massively commercially hyped?
I am checking because I don't get how anyone could be unaware of the fact
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yup it looks that way. Hardcore hype to maximize box sales, and then slowly extract more money with DLC's and/or cash shops.
The days of producing a good enough game that people are willing to pay monthly subscription for it seem to be ending. It is now pump and dump and cheesey cash shops, with game mechanics fine tuned to maximize cash shop rather than fun.
But there will always be exceptions, where the developer knows their game is high enough quality that it will succeed with monthly fees to avoid the cheesey cash shop game mechanics.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Just checking, so I am clear on it, you are asking me how SWtOR was massively commercially hyped?
I am checking because I don't get how anyone could be unaware of the fact
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
Yeah and somebody brought SWTOR over CGI video commercials?
that person has to be an idiot to fall for that cleaver marketing....
nobody to blame but themselves. I want some Gameplay Hype. show me the gameplay hype.... Not a stupid SGI
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Just checking, so I am clear on it, you are asking me how SWtOR was massively commercially hyped?
I am checking because I don't get how anyone could be unaware of the fact
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
Yeah and somebody brought SWTOR over CGI video commercials?
that person has to be an idiot to fall for that cleaver marketing....
nobody to blame but themselves. I want some Gameplay Hype. show me the gameplay hype.... Not a stupid SGI
star wars... say it with me star wars... and say it again.. star wars... it's all the hype anything needs to sell big
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
YOu really can't compare MMOs of 2012 with MMOs of ten years ago.......THere were very few MMO choices back then and usually when we picked a game we stuck with it.......TOday there are literally hunderds of MMO options out there, many of them with little or no financial obligation......As a result, companies are looking to make as much as they can as quickly as they can.
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Just checking, so I am clear on it, you are asking me how SWtOR was massively commercially hyped?
I am checking because I don't get how anyone could be unaware of the fact
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
Yeah and somebody brought SWTOR over CGI video commercials?
that person has to be an idiot to fall for that cleaver marketing....
nobody to blame but themselves. I want some Gameplay Hype. show me the gameplay hype.... Not a stupid SGI
star wars... say it with me star wars... and say it again.. star wars... it's all the hype anything needs to sell big
again, say it with me, thats their own fault to buy something based on IP alone. Will you buy Cow Shit cause it has SW label on it? come on... Anybody that brought the game for the IP alone, did it to themselves. Cant blame Bioware for that. thats all your own fault.
No it is not sad. In the old days, there are so few MMOs that you have no choice but to play one for a long time. That is no longer the case. Hmmm. I started playing EVE in 2005 and didn't leave until 2011. There certainly was no shortage of mmos that were released during that time period, and I would hardly refer to that time as "the old days".
Any game gets old. Obviously your tolerance is different from me. However, given a single player game last like a week, and a good one last only a few weeks, a year is a LONG LONG time in gaming.
I don't see any value in sticking with one game for a long time, unless it is really good, and have very frequent content update. It is simply, for me and probably for many, more fun to play different games, instead of sticking to one.
And technology like the battlenet (and other social networking like steam) let friends stay together even if you are playing different games.
You said it yourself, narius. If it is a really good game that is adequately updated, there is "value" in sticking around. This genre is about progressing your character, so why bother in the first place if it's ultimately just a disposable title? A great mmo keeps people wanting more. Crap mmos do not.
While you may fancy the trendy behaviour of game hopping, it is a serious sign that something is wrong with the industry. Remember, we're not talking about SPGs here. You shouldn't want to skip around like a school girl from game to game.
Sad only begins to describe the current state of the genre.
I agree, it's about more outlay of cash for less product. Creates a big demand hole though as long as players don't support the hype/disposables. Maybe someone will fill that need with a substantive game.
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Just checking, so I am clear on it, you are asking me how SWtOR was massively commercially hyped?
I am checking because I don't get how anyone could be unaware of the fact
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
Yeah and somebody brought SWTOR over CGI video commercials?
that person has to be an idiot to fall for that cleaver marketing....
nobody to blame but themselves. I want some Gameplay Hype. show me the gameplay hype.... Not a stupid SGI
star wars... say it with me star wars... and say it again.. star wars... it's all the hype anything needs to sell big
We agree... don't let it go to your head though!
I had no intrest in swtor until about october of 2011. Up until then I asked myself what's all the fuss about, it looks like WoW in space. Then it's like the hype hit critical mass. I went to the site and watch 3 minute videos for 3 hours two nights in a row... It was too late for me then. I started saying "I can't afford to miss launch it could be the next big thing..)
Then I got in game and opened up the 31 point talent trees... WoW in space.
Whatever happend to a game you could stay for atleast a year or even more, now what do we have?
People drop after a month, after 2 month more people drop, It's not like the old days when you were a kid or even older and you played a game and you played it a lot but after many tries and many weeks you completed it and you feelt joy and a sence of a accomplichement , yeah i did it, what happened to that era of gaming?
It's gone, MMO has been mainstream for so many years and what they are doing is mass produced it, do massice hype, tell people to pree order and live and laugh all the way to the bank with all the box sales.
1 month later 50% dropped who don't want to resub, second months even more drops.
Who cares really the gaming studio earned the money before the drop via massive hype and box sales and can turn back and plan for the next big thing to sucker the gamers into forking out money.
Sad that this industry going this way, quality is one thing of the past, mass production and mass consumers ride ticket is here to stay.
Do you play console games for year or even more solid for hours and hours each day? It is true most mmo's now do not have the longetivity they used to but most of the fault is due to the consumers crying and whining for easier content,easier traveling,easier raiding,.Back when mmo's began getting popular they were built to be a time investment and the grind is what made them that time investment people knew it would take them forever to lvl and then get there raid gear even then was no guarentee you were gonna get it.
Guess what I am saying is players cannot have it both ways you cannot play the new gen of mmo's hardcore and expect them to have any long term staying power or keep peoples interest they have no real bond with the character they develop compared to one you would work a year on just to get maxxed out.There is NO way current mmo's cam pump out the kinda content to keep players happy in the ezmode mmo's of today.
No it is not sad. In the old days, there are so few MMOs that you have no choice but to play one for a long time. That is no longer the case. Hmmm. I started playing EVE in 2005 and didn't leave until 2011. There certainly was no shortage of mmos that were released during that time period, and I would hardly refer to that time as "the old days".
Any game gets old. Obviously your tolerance is different from me. However, given a single player game last like a week, and a good one last only a few weeks, a year is a LONG LONG time in gaming.
I don't see any value in sticking with one game for a long time, unless it is really good, and have very frequent content update. It is simply, for me and probably for many, more fun to play different games, instead of sticking to one.
And technology like the battlenet (and other social networking like steam) let friends stay together even if you are playing different games.
You said it yourself, narius. If it is a really good game that is adequately updated, there is "value" in sticking around. This genre is about progressing your character, so why bother in the first place if it's ultimately just a disposable title? A great mmo keeps people wanting more. Crap mmos do not.
While you may fancy the trendy behaviour of game hopping, it is a serious sign that something is wrong with the industry. Remember, we're not talking about SPGs here. You shouldn't want to skip around like a school girl from game to game.
Sad only begins to describe the current state of the genre.
omg u made me wet. marry me and we'll have little MMO babeys. We'll have about 20, force them into differing aspects of game design and publishing etc. Then with our guidance they will make us a wonderful MMO to play.
I say its plausible...
:P Seriously though, some company is going to intentionally cater to the growing number of disinfranchised MMO players who want to spend an honest 15 bucks a month on a game, hell make it 20, for a game with hard(yes that means timesinks and grinding OMG RUN AWAY) engaging, deep, forced social- ok im tired but u get where im going with this.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
OP use spell check, with that said I agree with you. It seems the consumer, the gamer of today isn't really smart, because they spend the money to buy the new release and then quit a couple months later. And they repeatedly do this. It is a trend I have seen as well.
my favorite syllogism used by publishers in the post-WoW era:
WoW is simple
10 million people play WoW
therefore people are simple.
I like WoW for what it is so I am not a WoW hater I have had and kept a active WoW sub since it was released.But mmog dev and publshers look at what sells and how the game is in terms of difficulty and they ofc see those trends out doing a more hardcore game and model there game after wows formula cannot blame them for that if thats were the money is.I personally would love to see another more hardcore type game that takes forever to max lvl and raid and such but I do not see it happening people would complain so much they would end up changing it
.People even in TSW beta were already upset there wasn't gonna be mounts and you would have to run everywhere.I started mmo's pretty early on and running was just something you had to do.Hell even in WoW now I catch myself running when I should be using my mount.
I honestly blame console players and console game developers for a heft portion of the state of MMO's.
I place probably 75% of the blame on blizzard, because what they did is take something which was very pure and specific to a particular type of gamer and "made it accessible", which basically translates to, "Made it accessible to the lazy instant gratification, why didnt they stay playing console games" gamers.
Was it a wise business decision for blizzard? yes. Was it a good thing for gamers? no.
Even blizzard realized their mistake in making their game too casual friendly, cus now they finally starting succumbing to dropping subscriptions because other options became available. Unfortunately for the first 4-5 years of WOW's release all the other MMO's that came out pretty much sucked hard or were extremely buggy at release and never caught on as a result. This led to most people just staying playing WOW, which meant they retained subs, and by human nature people flock to the things that are popular, so it was a self sustaining cycle. Once a viable option became available people started to see how stagnant wow was and left, Blizzard responses by trying to make the game even more casual friendly, and then realized they screwed the pooch hard because even more people left after they blew through the "new" content in less than 2 months and had nothing else to do besides log on and do dailies, etc.
Personally i have little to no hope for the MMO industry, i think its a bubble that is on the verge of bursting and we're going to see some serious aftermath.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
If I'm currently paying a sub, then the new game has to be better then the already established game to earn my subscription fee. Good luck accomplishing that at launch.
If I've just cancelled my sub for another game, I'm realizing that I can't play that game anymore. Do I really think this game is going to hold me long term, or should I just quit now before spending months grinding out the fancy stuff just to lose it all anyhow?
If I've never payed a sub before, I'm going to work my butt off trying to get the best value for my dollar. I'll turn it into work, and I'll lose interest in playing.
If I've payed a sub before but am not currently subscribing to anything, I might give it a fair shot and play for quite a while. Either that, or I'll buy the game to reserve the names I want, play it for the first month, then wait for it to go f2p.
On the other side of the coin, I would have bought TERA, TSW, and maybe even SWTOR if it was B2P.
Personally i have little to no hope for the MMO industry, i think its a bubble that is on the verge of bursting and we're going to see some serious aftermath.
Had the same thought yesterday. The bubble is about to burst.
Just something that happens in a profit driven economy. Everyone was crawling all over each other to take some of WoWs pie because in our economy "if it is successfull, copy it". The MMO's all just started to...stagnate and degenerate as I have said before.
Because of the nature of MMOs and how devs/pubs can make money out of them by way of initial box sales, addiction and the use of the "new and better way to go" F2P model game its taken awhile for this to come about.
We'll see if the changes in response are for gamers benefits or not, who knows.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
If I'm currently paying a sub, then the new game has to be better then the already established game to earn my subscription fee. Good luck accomplishing that at launch.
If I've just cancelled my sub for another game, I'm realizing that I can't play that game anymore. Do I really think this game is going to hold me long term, or should I just quit now before spending months grinding out the fancy stuff just to lose it all anyhow?
If I've never payed a sub before, I'm going to work my butt off trying to get the best value for my dollar. I'll turn it into work, and I'll lose interest in playing.
If I've payed a sub before but am not currently subscribing to anything, I might give it a fair shot and play for quite a while. Either that, or I'll buy the game to reserve the names I want, play it for the first month, then wait for it to go f2p.
On the other side of the coin, I would have bought TERA, TSW, and maybe even SWTOR if it was B2P
Most MMOs are not sub based. The big budget ones are because they think they deserve it, unfortunately their vapid games do not and so eventually they turn to the manipulative F2P model.
in my opinion the payment model is not the biggest problem facing new MMOs. Its the stagnation of the games themselves. They keep pushing out games that they think are full of the "standard models", which are really just the model of one game that became super popular based on a number of happy coincedences coupled with a big publisher, a big budget and a big marketing campaign.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
The only MMORPG that I have seen hyped, in it's true sense, recently is SWtOR... what others have helped you come to this conclusion?
Interested players talking about the game excitedly on a forum doesn't count as 'hardcore hype' btw imo.
Huh? and what exactly was hyped, if you don't mind me asking?
Game of the year, even though it was out for like a week, before the new year started...Fourth pillar of gaming it was adding, which was going to be what all new mmos would be judged by, huge amounts of cash spent and noted studio, people mock it now, but said how could it be bad with Bioware making it....
All that said, hey, it isn't a bad word, if you own a company, you hype your stuff, you are in it to make money...They spent a lot to hype it, and Star Wars fans helped them do it, even if it was blindly or with little information (not all, but some)... I played it for the free month, wasn't worth a sub imo, but I don't hold it against them... Companies want to make money, and if they owned a pile of crap and could hype you into thinking it was a fun toy and could make money selling it, most companies would.
Personally i have little to no hope for the MMO industry, i think its a bubble that is on the verge of bursting and we're going to see some serious aftermath.
Had the same thought yesterday. The bubble is about to burst.
Just something that happens in a profit driven economy. Everyone was crawling all over each other to take some of WoWs pie because in our economy "if it is successfull, copy it". The MMO's all just started to...stagnate and degenerate as I have said before.
Because of the nature of MMOs and how devs/pubs can make money out of them by way of initial box sales, addiction and the use of the "new and better way to go" F2P model game its taken awhile for this to come about.
We'll see if the changes in response are for gamers benefits or not, who knows.
Agree 100%. The industry basically turned into what the recording industry and the current console gaming industry was, which is basically 'Rehash the same crap and resell it at full price to bunch of consumers who are either too dumb or willfully ignorant of the fact that they're not actually buying something new" Just like the recording industry is always looking for that next big pop star, which they can use to produce some more freeze dried formulaic music that teeny boppers will lap up.
I mean look at console's. CoD4 through the most current Modern Warfare game are basically indistinguishable from each other, reuse a TON of content, and these guys pay $60 for it and get maybe 8 hours of gameplay out of it if they're lucky. Its disgusting. Bioware, who everyone thinks is the epitome of gaming awesomeness (something ive contested for years) has been remaking KOTOR since it released. Honestly, Go play mass effect 1, then play KOTOR right after it, you will literally bust a gut laughing at how they're basically the exact same game with new graphics and a few story elements changed here and there. But in 85% of cases, same game. Same with ME2/ME3, new coat of paint, thats it.
Well, guess what happens when you bring those same game companies in to get a big piece of that 12million sub pie that blizzard created...
What makes me even more sick is all of these people who think that F2P is a good thing for them as gamers. They act like the idea of paying a sub for a game is like being fleeced, when the reality is the average F2P player spend 80% more on the game monthly than a subscription based gamer. They just don't notice it because they tend to do it in big transactions, they might spend 60 dollars on it, then nothing for 3 months, then spend 20, then nothing for 2 months, then spend 80, when you average it out, the last figures that came up were $27/mo is what the average F2P player spends.
Why do you think game companies like the idea of F2P so much, they get to charge for "content" that is expected at launch in a sub game. Oh, you want more bag space? Well, you can play the game without buying it, but we're going to give you only 1 bag slot and really the game is a huge pita without at least 8 bag slots, but, that will be $5 each bag slot please.
Oh, you want to get from point A to point B faster? Well, you can do it on foot, i mean, it s "free" to play, but its gonna take you 20 minutes to go on foot, but if you pay to unlock this teleport network, now you can use the teleports! That will be $20 please.
Anyways, im ranting again, so ill shutup
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Comments
Nothing. But do we not have enough genres that already compliment game hopping? Why not have a genre of games that are played long term alongside the quick cheap thrills types of games?
I came into this genre with the hope of making my nest and living in a new game world. I've managed to pull that off twice in 8 bloody years. It has been far from a let down, and I consider myself lucky to have experienced what I have, but I never dreamt such a potentially amazing gaming genre would stagnate and rot into such an aberration.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Yeah, basically.
That's what the box sale model encourages: massive hype. They make their money up front and it's mostly irrelevant whether you actually enjoy the game.
It might not be sustainable in the long run (your next game isn't going to sell well if your previous one burned players), but certainly that's what the B2P model encourages.
Personally I find F2P games to be much more palatable, although MMORPG F2P games specifically have had a bizarrely hard time latching onto the right game design to make it work (despite it being kinda obvious.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yes please explain... Still waiting on that...
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I've never seen more commericals or web advertising for any other MMO accept for warcraft before... SWTOR had enormous hype surrounding its release.. just the fact it is STAR WARS increases the hype by 100 fold then bioware on top then all the rabid fanboys gushing and drooling all over the place on every dev demo... really not sure how you missed all that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yup it looks that way. Hardcore hype to maximize box sales, and then slowly extract more money with DLC's and/or cash shops.
The days of producing a good enough game that people are willing to pay monthly subscription for it seem to be ending. It is now pump and dump and cheesey cash shops, with game mechanics fine tuned to maximize cash shop rather than fun.
But there will always be exceptions, where the developer knows their game is high enough quality that it will succeed with monthly fees to avoid the cheesey cash shop game mechanics.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Yeah and somebody brought SWTOR over CGI video commercials?
that person has to be an idiot to fall for that cleaver marketing....
nobody to blame but themselves. I want some Gameplay Hype. show me the gameplay hype.... Not a stupid SGI
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
star wars... say it with me star wars... and say it again.. star wars... it's all the hype anything needs to sell big
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
YOu really can't compare MMOs of 2012 with MMOs of ten years ago.......THere were very few MMO choices back then and usually when we picked a game we stuck with it.......TOday there are literally hunderds of MMO options out there, many of them with little or no financial obligation......As a result, companies are looking to make as much as they can as quickly as they can.
again, say it with me, thats their own fault to buy something based on IP alone. Will you buy Cow Shit cause it has SW label on it? come on... Anybody that brought the game for the IP alone, did it to themselves. Cant blame Bioware for that. thats all your own fault.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I agree, it's about more outlay of cash for less product. Creates a big demand hole though as long as players don't support the hype/disposables. Maybe someone will fill that need with a substantive game.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
We agree... don't let it go to your head though!
I had no intrest in swtor until about october of 2011. Up until then I asked myself what's all the fuss about, it looks like WoW in space. Then it's like the hype hit critical mass. I went to the site and watch 3 minute videos for 3 hours two nights in a row... It was too late for me then. I started saying "I can't afford to miss launch it could be the next big thing..)
Then I got in game and opened up the 31 point talent trees... WoW in space.
Do you play console games for year or even more solid for hours and hours each day? It is true most mmo's now do not have the longetivity they used to but most of the fault is due to the consumers crying and whining for easier content,easier traveling,easier raiding,.Back when mmo's began getting popular they were built to be a time investment and the grind is what made them that time investment people knew it would take them forever to lvl and then get there raid gear even then was no guarentee you were gonna get it.
Guess what I am saying is players cannot have it both ways you cannot play the new gen of mmo's hardcore and expect them to have any long term staying power or keep peoples interest they have no real bond with the character they develop compared to one you would work a year on just to get maxxed out.There is NO way current mmo's cam pump out the kinda content to keep players happy in the ezmode mmo's of today.
The last few MMORPG's were too bad for anyone to get attached to them.
Source?
Really? 10 million+ who play WoW there is your source.
my favorite syllogism used by publishers in the post-WoW era:
WoW is simple
10 million people play WoW
therefore people are simple.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
omg u made me wet. marry me and we'll have little MMO babeys. We'll have about 20, force them into differing aspects of game design and publishing etc. Then with our guidance they will make us a wonderful MMO to play.
I say its plausible...
:P Seriously though, some company is going to intentionally cater to the growing number of disinfranchised MMO players who want to spend an honest 15 bucks a month on a game, hell make it 20, for a game with hard(yes that means timesinks and grinding OMG RUN AWAY) engaging, deep, forced social- ok im tired but u get where im going with this.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
OP use spell check, with that said I agree with you. It seems the consumer, the gamer of today isn't really smart, because they spend the money to buy the new release and then quit a couple months later. And they repeatedly do this. It is a trend I have seen as well.
I like WoW for what it is so I am not a WoW hater I have had and kept a active WoW sub since it was released.But mmog dev and publshers look at what sells and how the game is in terms of difficulty and they ofc see those trends out doing a more hardcore game and model there game after wows formula cannot blame them for that if thats were the money is.I personally would love to see another more hardcore type game that takes forever to max lvl and raid and such but I do not see it happening people would complain so much they would end up changing it
.People even in TSW beta were already upset there wasn't gonna be mounts and you would have to run everywhere.I started mmo's pretty early on and running was just something you had to do.Hell even in WoW now I catch myself running when I should be using my mount.
I honestly blame console players and console game developers for a heft portion of the state of MMO's.
I place probably 75% of the blame on blizzard, because what they did is take something which was very pure and specific to a particular type of gamer and "made it accessible", which basically translates to, "Made it accessible to the lazy instant gratification, why didnt they stay playing console games" gamers.
Was it a wise business decision for blizzard? yes. Was it a good thing for gamers? no.
Even blizzard realized their mistake in making their game too casual friendly, cus now they finally starting succumbing to dropping subscriptions because other options became available. Unfortunately for the first 4-5 years of WOW's release all the other MMO's that came out pretty much sucked hard or were extremely buggy at release and never caught on as a result. This led to most people just staying playing WOW, which meant they retained subs, and by human nature people flock to the things that are popular, so it was a self sustaining cycle. Once a viable option became available people started to see how stagnant wow was and left, Blizzard responses by trying to make the game even more casual friendly, and then realized they screwed the pooch hard because even more people left after they blew through the "new" content in less than 2 months and had nothing else to do besides log on and do dailies, etc.
Personally i have little to no hope for the MMO industry, i think its a bubble that is on the verge of bursting and we're going to see some serious aftermath.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Here is my take on it.
Most new MMO's are sub based games.
If I'm currently paying a sub, then the new game has to be better then the already established game to earn my subscription fee. Good luck accomplishing that at launch.
If I've just cancelled my sub for another game, I'm realizing that I can't play that game anymore. Do I really think this game is going to hold me long term, or should I just quit now before spending months grinding out the fancy stuff just to lose it all anyhow?
If I've never payed a sub before, I'm going to work my butt off trying to get the best value for my dollar. I'll turn it into work, and I'll lose interest in playing.
If I've payed a sub before but am not currently subscribing to anything, I might give it a fair shot and play for quite a while. Either that, or I'll buy the game to reserve the names I want, play it for the first month, then wait for it to go f2p.
On the other side of the coin, I would have bought TERA, TSW, and maybe even SWTOR if it was B2P.
Had the same thought yesterday. The bubble is about to burst.
Just something that happens in a profit driven economy. Everyone was crawling all over each other to take some of WoWs pie because in our economy "if it is successfull, copy it". The MMO's all just started to...stagnate and degenerate as I have said before.
Because of the nature of MMOs and how devs/pubs can make money out of them by way of initial box sales, addiction and the use of the "new and better way to go" F2P model game its taken awhile for this to come about.
We'll see if the changes in response are for gamers benefits or not, who knows.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Most MMOs are not sub based. The big budget ones are because they think they deserve it, unfortunately their vapid games do not and so eventually they turn to the manipulative F2P model.
in my opinion the payment model is not the biggest problem facing new MMOs. Its the stagnation of the games themselves. They keep pushing out games that they think are full of the "standard models", which are really just the model of one game that became super popular based on a number of happy coincedences coupled with a big publisher, a big budget and a big marketing campaign.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Game of the year, even though it was out for like a week, before the new year started...Fourth pillar of gaming it was adding, which was going to be what all new mmos would be judged by, huge amounts of cash spent and noted studio, people mock it now, but said how could it be bad with Bioware making it....
All that said, hey, it isn't a bad word, if you own a company, you hype your stuff, you are in it to make money...They spent a lot to hype it, and Star Wars fans helped them do it, even if it was blindly or with little information (not all, but some)... I played it for the free month, wasn't worth a sub imo, but I don't hold it against them... Companies want to make money, and if they owned a pile of crap and could hype you into thinking it was a fun toy and could make money selling it, most companies would.
Agree 100%. The industry basically turned into what the recording industry and the current console gaming industry was, which is basically 'Rehash the same crap and resell it at full price to bunch of consumers who are either too dumb or willfully ignorant of the fact that they're not actually buying something new" Just like the recording industry is always looking for that next big pop star, which they can use to produce some more freeze dried formulaic music that teeny boppers will lap up.
I mean look at console's. CoD4 through the most current Modern Warfare game are basically indistinguishable from each other, reuse a TON of content, and these guys pay $60 for it and get maybe 8 hours of gameplay out of it if they're lucky. Its disgusting. Bioware, who everyone thinks is the epitome of gaming awesomeness (something ive contested for years) has been remaking KOTOR since it released. Honestly, Go play mass effect 1, then play KOTOR right after it, you will literally bust a gut laughing at how they're basically the exact same game with new graphics and a few story elements changed here and there. But in 85% of cases, same game. Same with ME2/ME3, new coat of paint, thats it.
Well, guess what happens when you bring those same game companies in to get a big piece of that 12million sub pie that blizzard created...
What makes me even more sick is all of these people who think that F2P is a good thing for them as gamers. They act like the idea of paying a sub for a game is like being fleeced, when the reality is the average F2P player spend 80% more on the game monthly than a subscription based gamer. They just don't notice it because they tend to do it in big transactions, they might spend 60 dollars on it, then nothing for 3 months, then spend 20, then nothing for 2 months, then spend 80, when you average it out, the last figures that came up were $27/mo is what the average F2P player spends.
Why do you think game companies like the idea of F2P so much, they get to charge for "content" that is expected at launch in a sub game. Oh, you want more bag space? Well, you can play the game without buying it, but we're going to give you only 1 bag slot and really the game is a huge pita without at least 8 bag slots, but, that will be $5 each bag slot please.
Oh, you want to get from point A to point B faster? Well, you can do it on foot, i mean, it s "free" to play, but its gonna take you 20 minutes to go on foot, but if you pay to unlock this teleport network, now you can use the teleports! That will be $20 please.
Anyways, im ranting again, so ill shutup
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche