Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the combat-system. You use one builder, one or two spenders and one or two utility-abilities with cooldowns. I don't use more then some 5-10 abilities in any other MMO aswell. A typical rotation in WoW or whaterver game you like has no more then 5 abilities too.
What makes TSW PvP interesting is the fact, that you don't know what you're facing until you start fighting, and the PvE is interesting, because you need to figure out the right deck to beat the mobs you're facing.
With your oppinion, every FPS is poorly designed, as you're spamming only one ability constantly.
OMG this proves nothing. First you edited out points where you basically smashed faces.
second and this is most important.
You used F.A.T.E. to automatically level yourself to QL10 max abilities. Those people you go up against aren't.
/end thread.
That was CB, I guarantee you nearly every 4K HP+ player I went up against was using QL10 DPS greens from FATE. A lot of those players were also regulars in Fusang which I've been PvPing with for weeks. Things will be even more whack when you start having people with purple QL10 gear.
I edited out points because I didn't want to make the video too long. I would love to show you the 2 hours of footage I got facerolling people. Better yet I could show you in person if you're in CB.
Don't be such a blind fanboy, I love this game as much as the next guy, but it will never improve unless we recognize what's wrong.
No they werent. 99% of the players were QL3 and below because there was no BWE F.A.T.E. NPC to boost us up. Theory debunked.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
OMG this proves nothing. First you edited out points where you basically smashed faces.
second and this is most important.
You used F.A.T.E. to automatically level yourself to QL10 max abilities. Those people you go up against aren't.
/end thread.
That was CB, I guarantee you nearly every 4K HP+ player I went up against was using QL10 DPS greens from FATE. A lot of those players were also regulars in Fusang which I've been PvPing with for weeks. Things will be even more whack when you start having people with purple QL10 gear.
I edited out points because I didn't want to make the video too long. I would love to show you the 2 hours of footage I got facerolling people. Better yet I could show you in person if you're in CB.
Don't be such a blind fanboy, I love this game as much as the next guy, but it will never improve unless we recognize what's wrong.
No they werent. 99% of the players were QL3 and below because there was no BWE F.A.T.E. NPC to boost us up. Theory debunked.
All the players in the video but one had 4100 + HPs, so they used F.A.T.E. or at least had QL 10. The combat system isn't very developed compared to most recent MMOs. It is about equal to warhammer MMO. It is a smal budget MMO with an over developed story so maybe after they get funds from release they can work on the under developed things.
All the players in the video but one had 4100 + HPs, so they used F.A.T.E. or at least had QL 10. The combat system isn't very developed compared to most recent MMOs. It is about equal to warhammer MMO. It is a smal budget MMO with an over developed story so maybe after they get funds from release they can work on the under developed things.
Is close beta pvp scaling different from what bwe scaling was? I went into PvP this weekend with a defensive spec, ql4-5, green talismans and lvl5 talisman skills, i am 100% sure i've had over 6k hp.
All the players in the video but one had 4100 + HPs, so they used F.A.T.E. or at least had QL 10. The combat system isn't very developed compared to most recent MMOs. It is about equal to warhammer MMO. It is a smal budget MMO with an over developed story so maybe after they get funds from release they can work on the under developed things.
Is close beta pvp scaling different from what bwe scaling was? I went into PvP this weekend with a defensive spec, ql4-5, green talismans and lvl5 talisman skills, i am 100% sure i've had over 6k hp.
I have 8.5 kish HPs in the defensive gear from F.A.T.E green i lvl 10 but is no reason to use it outside of instance tanking due to giving up so much attack power and there doesn't seem to be a PvP tanking build like SWTOR had with guard another player AND high DPS AND elite cooldowns. F.A.T.E in closed gives out level 10 Tank, heal, and DPS gear. enough SP and AP to unlock all skills in the game. And cash but not the quest cash.
The items are a bit different in how they destribute stuff when I compared to Item level 5/6 drops from the third zone as for DPS gear you get more DPS stats and for tanking gear you get more magic resist and all give ATK, HPs, and one other stat and then you get two slots to put crafting stuff in. The items were way better than anything you get from the hell hotel instance.
If you grind out a bunch of quest for quest points you can get better gear from vendors but repeating quests gets old. Instances give beter items, but if you had the best gear from open beta, the F.A.T.E tank gear is better for tanking. No duh is 5 item levels higher.
I dont plan to play the game at launch, but I think funcoms main focus should be balance. Theres so many skills in the game and the progression is pretty enjoyable so if they balance everything out people could see a huge variety in builds and there wont be a real "meta".
man that dude used a total of two skills in almost every fight, never mind how bad the animations are!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
man that dude used a total of two skills in almost every fight, never mind how bad the animations are!
Nevermind that, universal cooldowns should have died back with Warhammer... frankly, I think he only needed 2 skills *because* of the UCs, I know I only needed *ONE* skill in War to own in PvP.
~On the bright side, though, the PvP is at least more interesting than the PvE.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Originally posted by negativf4kkThe way the skills works r fine. Why do people want to play Rachmaninov Piano Concerto Nos 3 with pc keyboard in order to be good in pvp?
Wait, so you think mashing two buttons over and over is good combat?
everyone knows that mashing the elevator buttons for ten minutes will get you there faster than climbing stairs for 2 minutes.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Meh... Animations are still to stiff and lifeless for a game of this day and age... I can accept them in games like EQ2 and WoW but here they are just boring.
Lovley setting and story but the game (outside of DX11) looks like a dog(and not a pretty one at that) and as mentioned i find the animations to be so lackluster they make wheat-crackers seem exiting in comparison.
Thank you OP, i really appreciate your truly great efforts of convincing people not to play this game. The world would be quite sad without your outstanding and objective work. Try harder man. Everyone who doesnt play this game after reading your writings will be maybe one mm more on your e-peen. Love u.
Originally posted by gwei1984 Thank you OP, i really appreciate your truly great efforts of convincing people not to play this game. The world would be quite sad without your outstanding and objective work. Try harder man. Everyone who doesnt play this game after reading your writings will be maybe one mm more on your e-peen. Love u.
because intelligently expressing concerns with actual examples, about vital systems of a game = rabid hater ... interesting. do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Ya how dare the OP post something well thought out with evidence to prove his point. What he should have done is write something based entirely off of emotion, like you did. That would clearly have been the way to convince people to play/not play the game.
Well, thats the problem. This whole text and vid is not "well thought out". He doesnt even try to. Its highly biased and reminds me of thousands of youtube vids, where the creator wants to show how u can 2-shot underequipped grey people and wants to convince people that some builds/classes are overpowered, or in this case the combat is not balanced.
Always the same at every mmo. Try a search for "overpowered, imba" and then "Aion, SwTor, WoW, Rift, etc..". You'll get thousands of those videos that don't show the reality.
i found the demostration to be quite entertaining. it was quite clear the OP was well-versed in the combat skills in his action bar (and he did use them all). however, an edited youtube video of you curb-stomping beta noobs does not constitute any kind of proof whatsoever that "combat is poorly designed"...only that the opponents were either experimenting with their own different builds (like many of us have) or that he was simply better.
in the early stages of every game like this, and especially one with so many different skills, there are definitely builds that will not only excel in PvP, but be quite overpowering until someone devises a counter to it, or the skills are properly balanced. some poor sod standing still spamming his blood shield in defense is only proof that some people simply aren't good at PvP (yet), don't understand the nuances of combat, you are actually good at it, or a combination of all those factors.
how about we not pass judgement on a system for a game not even released yet, and better yet not come to a conclusion about combat design in a PvP match with beta-testers. good lord, man, seriously???
Ya how dare the OP post something well thought out with evidence to prove his point. What he should have done is write something based entirely off of emotion, like you did. That would clearly have been the way to convince people to play/not play the game.
Well, thats the problem. This whole text and vid is not "well thought out". He doesnt even try to. Its highly biased and reminds me of thousands of youtube vids, where the creator wants to show how u can 2-shot underequipped grey people and wants to convince people that some builds/classes are overpowered, or in this case the combat is not balanced.
Always the same at every mmo. Try a search for "overpowered, imba" and then "Aion, SwTor, WoW, Rift, etc..". You'll get thousands of those videos that don't show the reality.
The OP was pointing out how the system is boring, bland and lazy, not how OP x, y or z is.
Ability Cap: Or how TSW rewards you for using boring rotations. Here’s the thing most people don’t realize yet: due to the homogenization of attacks, passive abilities have a bigger impact on your DPS (and healing to some extent) than the attacks you use. You might think I’m bullshitting you. After all how could that be true when abilities like Thor’s Hammer hit so hard? Well, it’s actually not that good. People who have done the math will tell you that you’re actually better off just using a rotation like the one shown in the video (i.e. frantically spamming two buttons over and over). You can accomplish this with pretty much any two attacks if you know what you’re doing. Mine’s actually not even that good compared to some other mindless rotations I’ve seen, but I’m a sucker for Chaos and punching people in the face. I guess I’m glad the animations are identical in this case.
Edited for length.
Thank you for taking the time to post this, and to make a video backing it up. I've found quite the same to be true, and while critical, you have a very objective view of the game, which is refreshing. It looks like you may have saved one person from wasting money. However, it seems like the majority of people on this forum have either already paid, or are skeptical enough to hold back on this for now. I still appreciate you trying to educate through all the forum pvp.
Reason I kept the paragraph in quote is because I too found this to be especially true. I will also reiterate that your build is indeed not very good. It's decent, but I was doing way more dmg w/ mine and definitely facerolling. You probably had a lot more survivability than mine, though. That said, the main difference with mine is I actually had 5 damage dealers and 2 support skills. The reason I had 5 is because 3 of them I could use w/ no resources (giving me a 2ndary rotation if I got caught w/ my pants down), 2 of them double as CC (coldsnap and cardiac arrest), and 1 procs a debuff my build was based off of (affliction). The other 2 skills were a self heal & cc breaker (invaluable in PvP).
That said, even though my build is more complicated on paper, it still basically boils down to me spamming the same 2-3 buttons tops. The rest I rarely ever needed, and would usually use them cause i was bored w/ the build / spender combo.
- And you are 100% right about passives. My build would be absolute garbage w/ out the passives I have. And this is one of the primary reasons I don't use Thor's Hammer either. It only does ~100 more dmg than Blaze, and yet I can spec Blaze to have 100% crit, and additional crit power, so on average Blaze is actually doing a lot more than Thor's Hammer, has no CD, and costs less resources. I also then don't have to slot a dmg proc CD to make my main source of dmg viable.
A buddy and I tried to mess around w/ as much variety as we could, and basically came to the same conclusion that there really just isn't as much significant variety as we'd hoped. Every weapon seems to have a handful of skills that are just clearly better than the rest, and thus forces you to build around a much smaller skillset. The skill system really fails to utilize a lot of the potential it has to be a really awesome & unique mechanic.
i think you have an excellent point. great combat obviously doesn't make a great game, but at the same time the combat of Tera is what almost pushed me over the edge to purchase it in spite of its very bland looking levelling content and endgame that En Masse outlined for us pre-release.
on the flip side, having played TSW i'm very very much also on the fence as i love the lore, skill based advancement, and questing system they have in place. but the combat along with several other major and minor issues i have with the game are preventing me from just pulling the trigger on buying it right out.
great combat absolutely would have pushed me over the edge into "definitely must have this game." but i am just one person with a very subjective opinion on this! cheers to those who truly are enjoying it for what it is right now.
combat doesn't bother me. The good in the game outweighs the bad, which I haven't seen in many games lately. WoW has sub/cash shop, I didnt find there combat great, even in '06 when i tried it.
No, but poor combat does = game people won't play. Especially when they are charging a sub for it along with cash shop...
and THAT is a load of crap LOL
How can you explain Everquest 1, WoW, FE, EVE, shit even Minecraft, and those games still have a decent population.
To enjoy a good MMORPG even if it has soso combat as long as the rest of the game is good I'm ok with it, I don't find the combat that bad, and honestly guys come on, there's been games out there that have FAR worse combat animations, and last I checked in with Funcom those are place holders, those things can change, the CORE game mechanics cannot, and those are fine as well.
I am happy alot of you don't like this game, and you know what? That is exacly what the devs wanted , not a game to appeal to the masses, a game for veteran mmorpg gamers like myself that are tired of getting your hand held 90% of the time, and before you comment on that, remember to actualy play TSW and go through the investigation missions, puzzles ect ect.
Thank you OP, i really appreciate your truly great efforts of convincing people not to play this game. The world would be quite sad without your outstanding and objective work. Try harder man. Everyone who doesnt play this game after reading your writings will be maybe one mm more on your e-peen. Love u.
Ya how dare the OP post something well thought out with evidence to prove his point. What he should have done is write something based entirely off of emotion, like you did. That would clearly have been the way to convince people to play/not play the game.
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
[mod edit]If the combat sucks in your opinion, bug off and bother yourself not with a game you dont care to play simple as that. Dont see why you guys have to persist in shooting down a great game.[mod edit]
Originally posted by Dominionlord great combat =great game? TERA?
speaking personally the last thing I would say about tera's combat is great.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Go play something else, please go!
Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the combat-system. You use one builder, one or two spenders and one or two utility-abilities with cooldowns. I don't use more then some 5-10 abilities in any other MMO aswell. A typical rotation in WoW or whaterver game you like has no more then 5 abilities too.
What makes TSW PvP interesting is the fact, that you don't know what you're facing until you start fighting, and the PvE is interesting, because you need to figure out the right deck to beat the mobs you're facing.
With your oppinion, every FPS is poorly designed, as you're spamming only one ability constantly.
Really, go play something else.
No they werent. 99% of the players were QL3 and below because there was no BWE F.A.T.E. NPC to boost us up. Theory debunked.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
All the players in the video but one had 4100 + HPs, so they used F.A.T.E. or at least had QL 10. The combat system isn't very developed compared to most recent MMOs. It is about equal to warhammer MMO. It is a smal budget MMO with an over developed story so maybe after they get funds from release they can work on the under developed things.
Is close beta pvp scaling different from what bwe scaling was? I went into PvP this weekend with a defensive spec, ql4-5, green talismans and lvl5 talisman skills, i am 100% sure i've had over 6k hp.
I have 8.5 kish HPs in the defensive gear from F.A.T.E green i lvl 10 but is no reason to use it outside of instance tanking due to giving up so much attack power and there doesn't seem to be a PvP tanking build like SWTOR had with guard another player AND high DPS AND elite cooldowns. F.A.T.E in closed gives out level 10 Tank, heal, and DPS gear. enough SP and AP to unlock all skills in the game. And cash but not the quest cash.
The items are a bit different in how they destribute stuff when I compared to Item level 5/6 drops from the third zone as for DPS gear you get more DPS stats and for tanking gear you get more magic resist and all give ATK, HPs, and one other stat and then you get two slots to put crafting stuff in. The items were way better than anything you get from the hell hotel instance.
If you grind out a bunch of quest for quest points you can get better gear from vendors but repeating quests gets old. Instances give beter items, but if you had the best gear from open beta, the F.A.T.E tank gear is better for tanking. No duh is 5 item levels higher.
I dont plan to play the game at launch, but I think funcoms main focus should be balance. Theres so many skills in the game and the progression is pretty enjoyable so if they balance everything out people could see a huge variety in builds and there wont be a real "meta".
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
The way the skills works r fine. Why do people want to play Rachmaninov Piano Concerto Nos 3 with pc keyboard in order to be good in pvp?
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man that dude used a total of two skills in almost every fight, never mind how bad the animations are!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Nevermind that, universal cooldowns should have died back with Warhammer... frankly, I think he only needed 2 skills *because* of the UCs, I know I only needed *ONE* skill in War to own in PvP.
~On the bright side, though, the PvP is at least more interesting than the PvE.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
everyone knows that mashing the elevator buttons for ten minutes will get you there faster than climbing stairs for 2 minutes.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Meh... Animations are still to stiff and lifeless for a game of this day and age... I can accept them in games like EQ2 and WoW but here they are just boring.
Lovley setting and story but the game (outside of DX11) looks like a dog(and not a pretty one at that) and as mentioned i find the animations to be so lackluster they make wheat-crackers seem exiting in comparison.
This have been a good conversation
Thank you OP, i really appreciate your truly great efforts of convincing people not to play this game. The world would be quite sad without your outstanding and objective work. Try harder man. Everyone who doesnt play this game after reading your writings will be maybe one mm more on your e-peen. Love u.
Hodor!
because intelligently expressing concerns with actual examples, about vital systems of a game = rabid hater ... interesting. do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Thanks for the vid OP.
Well, thats the problem. This whole text and vid is not "well thought out". He doesnt even try to. Its highly biased and reminds me of thousands of youtube vids, where the creator wants to show how u can 2-shot underequipped grey people and wants to convince people that some builds/classes are overpowered, or in this case the combat is not balanced.
Always the same at every mmo. Try a search for "overpowered, imba" and then "Aion, SwTor, WoW, Rift, etc..". You'll get thousands of those videos that don't show the reality.
Hodor!
i found the demostration to be quite entertaining. it was quite clear the OP was well-versed in the combat skills in his action bar (and he did use them all). however, an edited youtube video of you curb-stomping beta noobs does not constitute any kind of proof whatsoever that "combat is poorly designed"...only that the opponents were either experimenting with their own different builds (like many of us have) or that he was simply better.
in the early stages of every game like this, and especially one with so many different skills, there are definitely builds that will not only excel in PvP, but be quite overpowering until someone devises a counter to it, or the skills are properly balanced. some poor sod standing still spamming his blood shield in defense is only proof that some people simply aren't good at PvP (yet), don't understand the nuances of combat, you are actually good at it, or a combination of all those factors.
how about we not pass judgement on a system for a game not even released yet, and better yet not come to a conclusion about combat design in a PvP match with beta-testers. good lord, man, seriously???
The OP was pointing out how the system is boring, bland and lazy, not how OP x, y or z is.
Edited for length.
Thank you for taking the time to post this, and to make a video backing it up. I've found quite the same to be true, and while critical, you have a very objective view of the game, which is refreshing. It looks like you may have saved one person from wasting money. However, it seems like the majority of people on this forum have either already paid, or are skeptical enough to hold back on this for now. I still appreciate you trying to educate through all the forum pvp.
Reason I kept the paragraph in quote is because I too found this to be especially true. I will also reiterate that your build is indeed not very good. It's decent, but I was doing way more dmg w/ mine and definitely facerolling. You probably had a lot more survivability than mine, though. That said, the main difference with mine is I actually had 5 damage dealers and 2 support skills. The reason I had 5 is because 3 of them I could use w/ no resources (giving me a 2ndary rotation if I got caught w/ my pants down), 2 of them double as CC (coldsnap and cardiac arrest), and 1 procs a debuff my build was based off of (affliction). The other 2 skills were a self heal & cc breaker (invaluable in PvP).
That said, even though my build is more complicated on paper, it still basically boils down to me spamming the same 2-3 buttons tops. The rest I rarely ever needed, and would usually use them cause i was bored w/ the build / spender combo.
- And you are 100% right about passives. My build would be absolute garbage w/ out the passives I have. And this is one of the primary reasons I don't use Thor's Hammer either. It only does ~100 more dmg than Blaze, and yet I can spec Blaze to have 100% crit, and additional crit power, so on average Blaze is actually doing a lot more than Thor's Hammer, has no CD, and costs less resources. I also then don't have to slot a dmg proc CD to make my main source of dmg viable.
A buddy and I tried to mess around w/ as much variety as we could, and basically came to the same conclusion that there really just isn't as much significant variety as we'd hoped. Every weapon seems to have a handful of skills that are just clearly better than the rest, and thus forces you to build around a much smaller skillset. The skill system really fails to utilize a lot of the potential it has to be a really awesome & unique mechanic.
great combat =great game? TERA?
i think you have an excellent point. great combat obviously doesn't make a great game, but at the same time the combat of Tera is what almost pushed me over the edge to purchase it in spite of its very bland looking levelling content and endgame that En Masse outlined for us pre-release.
on the flip side, having played TSW i'm very very much also on the fence as i love the lore, skill based advancement, and questing system they have in place. but the combat along with several other major and minor issues i have with the game are preventing me from just pulling the trigger on buying it right out.
great combat absolutely would have pushed me over the edge into "definitely must have this game." but i am just one person with a very subjective opinion on this! cheers to those who truly are enjoying it for what it is right now.
combat doesn't bother me. The good in the game outweighs the bad, which I haven't seen in many games lately. WoW has sub/cash shop, I didnt find there combat great, even in '06 when i tried it.
and THAT is a load of crap LOL
How can you explain Everquest 1, WoW, FE, EVE, shit even Minecraft, and those games still have a decent population.
To enjoy a good MMORPG even if it has soso combat as long as the rest of the game is good I'm ok with it, I don't find the combat that bad, and honestly guys come on, there's been games out there that have FAR worse combat animations, and last I checked in with Funcom those are place holders, those things can change, the CORE game mechanics cannot, and those are fine as well.
I am happy alot of you don't like this game, and you know what? That is exacly what the devs wanted , not a game to appeal to the masses, a game for veteran mmorpg gamers like myself that are tired of getting your hand held 90% of the time, and before you comment on that, remember to actualy play TSW and go through the investigation missions, puzzles ect ect.
Anyhow enjoy.
[mod edit]If the combat sucks in your opinion, bug off and bother yourself not with a game you dont care to play simple as that. Dont see why you guys have to persist in shooting down a great game.[mod edit]
speaking personally the last thing I would say about tera's combat is great.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
speaking personally the last thing I would say about tera's combat is great.
Definitely tons more fun in comparison to GW2 combat.. just sayin..