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Is it me or GW2 PAY 2 WIN game?
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I feel like I'm the only one enraged here about how my hard bought gems are going to some person who had the time to play the game and get gold. Why should they be able to get things that cost gems when they didn't put up the money for it? And another thing, why is it that my gems fluxuate in value based on the gold/gem market? These are the real issues here in my book.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
The real question is that since we get once of these threads pretty regularly, how many more threads exactly like this can detractors get in before 8/28/12? And do people think it will actually influence sales or enjoyment?
So many people who haven't played the game are arguing theoretical points about how the store "might in some contexts give an advantage if other conditions are met, ergo it is P2W". Great, keep complaining on these forums or the BWE forums or play and be angry about it or don't play, those are the options.
All I know is that I played the first closed BWE after the press event and each BWE since then and enjoyed myself immensely. The game isn't perfect. I don't like the lock boxes and I said so in the forums but they're going to be in game so I live with it, which is made much easier by the lack of a sub fee. Still, at no point did I feel compelled to purchase anything to compete in WvW or to enjoy the content and it doesn't apply to structured PvP. In fact, I didn't use the cash shop at all except to buy a "box of fun" with the free gems for the last event, and it was actually a box of fun. Shocking.
This last BWE I had more gold than I knew what to do with at level 30, and I figure it will be like that as I level. My skill, my build, and the people with whom I play the game will determine my enjoyment, and I will not be worrying if someone has a particular shade of yellow for their armor or turns into a chair for 15 minutes or gets an crafting xp bonus.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I'm taking the opportunity to block everyone that disagree's with my opinion. Why bother with acknowledging they exist at all, there is nothing that they can say that would seem valid to me.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Dude who cares, you can buy gold from a goldseller in any other game.
Yeah you could. And you could also get your account banned, your identity stolen, or be generally disdained by the community for being "ebayed."
You can't use the fact it is possible to perform an activity illegally as justification to legalize said activity.
If you could use that argument, then I could argue that bath salts, the drug that turns you into a face eating zombie should be legal because...hey, people can get it from illegal drug dealers right now.Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I'm with you 100%. I really don't see how anyone can deny that the ability to buy anything on the AH with real money could be considered an advantage for RMTers, and yet they do.Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I like how this thread has redefined "pay to win" to mean pay for small advantage. In most p2p games the players with the most time to play have the advantage, often so big that people with full time jobs can't compete at all (without illegally buying maxed characters off ebay or something anyway).
Generally, the more someone can afford gems, the less time they have to play (I am aware there are numerous exceptions, no need to waste time pointing them out). If someone who works 50 hours a week is able to buy items that allow slightly faster leveling and trade some cash for some siege blueprints or crafting mats, that hardly breaks the game. In those same 50 hours the stereotypical basement dweller should easily be able to farm enough gold and materials to buy plenty of blueprints as well. No one will be selling gold unless they have excess, as it is all generated by (and thus limited by) people actually playing the game. Don't want currency exchange to give an advantage? Simple, don't sell your gold. Someone else selling their gold bothers you? Why? Does it matter which specific player ends up clicking the npc to buy blueprints with it? It's not like there is an unlimited amount of gold for sale generated out of nowhere when someone uses their credit card.
The huge advantage players with unlimited game time have in many games is mitigated here. People with full time jobs and lives can actually compete fairly, awe, so sad......
By allowing and regulating RMT in game ANet is getting rid of all the problems associated with 3rd party illegal RMT companies. These are a very real issue in any game without the ability to trade currency legitimately. The price of working full time should be either a stigma as a gold buyer or banned/hacked accounts? I'm not sure I follow the logic there.
Not like it wasnt expected GW1 was pay to win as well
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Nope, not pay to win. You will have the best gear statistically within hours of hitting max level. P2BP maybe! (Pay to be pretty)
Oh I would love to hear your explanation for this.
@Regomar:
I'll break it down succintly, by game type.
In structured PvP, you can't buy anything that helps you. Everyone has all the same gear stats, for free, all the time. No items from the cash shop benefit sPvP at all.
In WvW, your guild can spend influence (the "currency" you get by doing things together as a guild, having players log in everyday, etc) to buy very weak upgrades that only affect the small area around a keep or tower that your guild has claimed (and you can only claim one tower at a time). I'm talking a 4% buff to a single attribute out of 8, that's how weak it is. The P2W aspect comes in because it's possible to use money to buy gems to trade for gold, and gold can be used to purchase influence from some merchants. The caveats are that 1) the bonuses are so limited that the "winning" part of "P2W" is not even close to assured, and 2) since upgrades take a while to research, you can't just dump a bunch of cash into the game and buy up all the upgrades, and influence gain rates are not yet known, so it might not even be necessary to buy gold to get these upgrades.
In PvE, you can buy cosmetic stuff, plus some convenience items (one item lets you access your storage from anywhere, for example), plus some XP/karma/magic find boosts. But since none of the stuff you can buy with gold or karma is going to be any better stat-wise than stuff that's easy to acquire, and the game isn't built around a race to lvl80, you really shouldn't care if someone else is paying money for these boosts. It shouldn't affect your game at all.
It is pay to win. You can't win the game unless you buy it
No one is denying that it gives an advantage, just saying it isn't an advantage that reflects in combat, which one can say is where there is winning and losing.
But you have toi see the other side - some people get in game gold, but someone else get access to items that would cost real money for in game gold.
You can't dissociate that fact, that someone that cares about the game gets something as well.
Sure you got 8 gold or 100 gold or whatever, but I got that character slot or that storage page that would have cost $10 for 8 or 100 gold. Your experience was enhanced, my experience was enhanced.
And both of us are paying $0 subscription fee - that is what we get back.
Now compare that to illegal gold sellers - we have our world infested by "bots" and people that don't care about the game or the community, that then sell the gold they farm for money and that money will be used and create inflation.
In GW2 model since both players care about the game, wealth just moves around. Ssure, there is the potential to concentrate wealth, but many of the game sought after items are bought in currencies other than gold and if someone buys gold to buy influence, well, then it is just money being removed from the system, so no inflation there.
Of course no one is saying CS and money for gold is a perfect system,but what is the alternative? Monthly subscriptions that don't prevent the CS from being implemented anyway? Fremium models where the free account is quite limited?
See it as "Pay for convenience".
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
What are you even speaking of? I have owned GW1 since it released and still play it some now. I haven't payed a dime past the game + expansions. How is this "pay to win" exactly?
Apparently, some people have a very warped view (or at least much different than mine) of what "pay to win" actually means. To each their own, but I completely disagree.
He was probably joking... it doesn't make sense otherwise
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
"The highlighted bit, you go on to say that all the gear has the same power, then on the next few words you say that skill matters more than stats, which is a contradiction, you either have the exact same stats on everything or you dont, if you have 1 more stat on something over the other then, gear doesnt have the same power, because two players playing at the exact same skill level the one with one more stat point is going to have the advantage."
It's not a contradiction; you can't get better stat gear than anyone else. What matters is player skill, not gear stats. Even if you could buy what is essentially the same stat gear anyone else has (although it might look cooler), you can't buy player skill. If yo're going to define "P2W" . There's nothing you can buy that will compensate for inferior player skill - nothing.
"In case you havent noticed P2W the Win doesnt mean you are going to win a medal it means you acquired something, for cash rather than through in game means, someone killed 1000 goblins and won a feather to put on their hat, someone took their credit card out and won a feather to put on their hat, the latter paid to win something, that the earlier had to play to achieve, so that cheapens the experience for the player who actually went and got the feather to put on their hat in game."
I can see your point, but some game mechanics and features are driven by real world issues and necessity, and we all have to be willing to compromise to some degree to account for it. In this case, the real-word issue is gold farmers and the fact that if anyone wants to buy vanity items available in a game where there is no cash shop, they can still do so. Anyone who wants to P2W can do so just by hiring a character leveling service or, because of the new court ruling on re-selling software, buy (used) pre-leveled accounts. I don't go searching for reasons to feel like my game-time has been trivialized, because if I do so then that will happen in every game. I could look at GW2's deleveling mechanic and complain that my character's advances have been trivialized because he or she isn't uber-powerful in beginning areas.
IMO, we have to be reasonable even as we advocate for that which we beleive is good for a game or the genre. I personally don't think it's reasonable at this juncture to attack the GW2 cash shop as it stands now as trivializing the experience of others. When you have to use so broad a definition of "winning" as buying purely cosmetic items that others can also buy with in-game money, I think the argument about the cash shop being "P2W" has lost its teeth.
You're exactly right. And then there are also the ones that are just simply trolling the game. Either way, a lot of stupidity (or ignorance) out there.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
What on earth are you talking about. THIS is an example of plain outright lying or cluelessness. I'm not sure which.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Runes of Magic should have named themselves Guild War 2 and then people would not have called it P2W.
Thats when you know the poster was probably right and the fanboi's had no answer for it. Better get used to it if your going to read GW2 forum.
They get called trolls and people call out to lock threads when those "opinions" aren't "unpopular" but complete lies due to seer ignorance and/or hate. Only then. If an opinion has at least a little bit of sensible explanation then there is no "trolling" or "locking" requests.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Sorry, but why does this make the argument above valid? The argument for legalizing drugs in Denmark is based on the same predicate as the argument for legalizing gold selling and is just as wrong
.
I mean, if you think that "people can do it anyway, so it should be legal" is a valid argument, then you basically believe in anarchy. Every single illegal activity can be done. If it was impossible to do, it would not be illegal because no one could ever do it.
Stealing, obviously can be done. Should they legalize that? What about murder? Possession of weapons of mass destruction?
Hey, you can do all those, they should legalize them!
And yes, I know these are hyperbolic examples, but that doesn't matter. The examples are hyperbolic on purpose to show the ridiculousness of the following argument:
"If a person can obtain or perform material or act X by illegal means, then material or act X should be legal."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Sometimes people call "troll" because it's the 50th time a thread topic has come up and there's no way the OP could NOT have known that, so....you know....you draw some conclusions from that. A lot of the "troll posts" are indeed just troll posts. I wouldn't say one way or the other, but sometimes it's very obvious. I certainly don't think it automatically means the OP was right. That's just laughable. Read around a bit. Learn to use search. One can avoid being called a troll if one uses less troll-like behavior. Shocking, I know.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Sounds good, but this guy told us himself that IT IS PAY TO WIN.
Sure not on the first hand, but if you can level faster by spending money or get more ingame gold. You will reach higher level faster, get better gear faster and in PvP you will crush the players that dont have the level or the items you have.
Dont missunderstand me, I have nothing agains pay to win, I know that they must earn money. But they can just be quite and its ok, insteed of argumenting stupid lies that its not pay to win.
You do have an idea how PvP works in the game right?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
As an Anarcho-Capitalist I have some major beef with this post but we're not supposed to get into politics on these forums.
My theme song.
It's funny how people argue about P2W cash shop when its obvious from their posts they haven't even touched the game. This post sums everything up nicely.
/thread