Thats what innovation means. It actualy comes from the latin word innovatus (i know latin me is no dumb) : to renew.
You think it means so much more cause its the current buzz word. If you played more TSW you would know that its just an advertising trick from the illuminati to control you.
Innovation means introducing something new. A redesigned old feature is still an old feature.
Edit: cut out some of the quotes.
Sorry to end your long ranting mission to pick hairs over wording but
in·no·vate
[in-uh-veyt] Show IPAverb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.
with the key part being "make changes in anything established"
You're absolutely right! I was wrong. Anything and everything is an innovation.
You're just looking at things the wrong way. Take a car for example. Cars are still cars and altough there have been changes, most work as they have for a long time in principal. Would we say there has been no innovations in the automobile field because the steering wheel still turns the car? The break pedal stops it? The gas pedal makes it go?
I'm just saying. It's a video game and an MMO. There is only so much you can change and TSW does a very good job at making everything feel fresh... at least in my opinion.
I agree with you. I just think that in order for the game to be "the most innovative MMO of the year," it needs to bring something new to the genre, otherwise the title loses it's meaning. I mean most MMOs change a few things that they borrowed from their predecessors but would you honestly call the multitude of "WoW clones" as innovative?
I guess that's where our opinions differ. Mind you, I'm not saying that TSW is a bad game. I've really enjoyed playing it. I'm just saying that I don't think that it deserves the title.
I like TSW, I'm loving it actually. But I've gotta say.. TSW has done nothing innovative, except investigation missions and 'some' sabotage missions I suppose. The skill system and item system (glyths + signates = runes and insignias) is pretty much a copy off GW1 made to look different with classes removed. SWTOR did the story missions things first, TSW just did it better.
The only daring thing Funcom did was the change to the quest/mission journal, I was put off by it at first but now I realise it's actually a much better way to present the stories and keeps you focused on what you are doing.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Innovation doesn't necessarily have to be any one thing, but on the whole how all the features and gameplay are put together. You can take used ideas from past games, put them together in such a way, that it is indeed innovative, without having a shred of new material. It is the adaptation of the ideas and methods in a new way that make it innovative.
The modern setting (which I don't see often), with skills instead of classes (although you can make classes), with 3 factions, investigative, that uses real world information, legends, myths,conspiracies, and probably a few more things I am forgetting, is what makes TSW innovative as a whole.
Now, I am not saying it is ground breaking innovation, but not exactly the same old same old either. A different arrangement of pieces.
Also innovation doesn't have to be huge, just something small. When somone patents a product, another can make a small change to that item, idea, and patent it themselves because it is something new (an innovation), even if it is practically the same. Also innovation does not mean it is good either. Plenty of innovations throughout history that failed miserably.
Thats what innovation means. It actualy comes from the latin word innovatus (i know latin me is no dumb) : to renew.
You think it means so much more cause its the current buzz word. If you played more TSW you would know that its just an advertising trick from the illuminati to control you.
Innovation means introducing something new. A redesigned old feature is still an old feature.
Edit: cut out some of the quotes.
Sorry to end your long ranting mission to pick hairs over wording but
in·no·vate
[in-uh-veyt] Show IPAverb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.
with the key part being "make changes in anything established"
You're absolutely right! I was wrong. Anything and everything is an innovation.
You're just looking at things the wrong way. Take a car for example. Cars are still cars and altough there have been changes, most work as they have for a long time in principal. Would we say there has been no innovations in the automobile field because the steering wheel still turns the car? The break pedal stops it? The gas pedal makes it go?
I'm just saying. It's a video game and an MMO. There is only so much you can change and TSW does a very good job at making everything feel fresh... at least in my opinion.
I agree with you. I just think that in order for the game to be "the most innovative MMO of the year," it needs to bring something new to the genre, otherwise the title loses it's meaning. I mean most MMOs change a few things that they borrowed from their predecessors but would you honestly call the multitude of "WoW clones" as innovative?
I guess that's where our opinions differ. Mind you, I'm not saying that TSW is a bad game. I've really enjoyed playing it. I'm just saying that I don't think that it deserves the title.
Well this is the first think you posted that didnt sound like you were just Trolling ;0)
and I actually agree ... Do I think TSW is a fresh spin on MMOs - Yes
This whole innovation merry go round is actually getting more fucking annoying than analogies at this point.
You can pretty much pick anything apart in an mmo that others deem innovative and say how it isn't. Pretty pointless really
This
Judging from the responses I've seen towards the last couple of titles that have been released,,it's pretty obvious that there is a segment of posters on this forum who claim to want something different, but will never be happy because there is no way a developer can make one that is different enough for them. I guarentee you that when GW2 gets released that it will be picked apart and bashed to death along with any other big release coming down the pike in the next year. These folks need to either enjoy what the games have to offer or find a different hobby.
This.
Judging from the responses I've seen towards the last couple of titles that have been released,,it's pretty obvious that there is a segment of posters on this forum who claim to want something different, but will never be happy because there is no way a developer can make one that is different enough for them.
Actually more than it being about how innovative TSW it's on itself it will come down to how innovative are the whole lot of the games that will be released for the period.
A game with a slight sliver of innovation would be the most innovative of a year in which all other titles were cookie cutter copies. A very innovative game would lose the title in front of a crop of high innovative ones, too.
What innovation is in the other games for this year? This is not a question of which one is better, but a comparison on the innovative elements games this year might come up with. That should be what determine who lands that title.
I honestly see TSW as a good contender for it, but haven't played all the rest, so i can't say if it is THE one, or not. I hear that GW2 brings new approaches too, which is rather good, and Archage too, all in all what i see it's a better group of games being developed/published than previous years. Which is good, and should be enjoyed by us, no matter which one of them is the one we personally prefere.
I like TSW, I'm loving it actually. But I've gotta say.. TSW has done nothing innovative, except investigation missions and 'some' sabotage missions I suppose. The skill system and item system (glyths + signates = runes and insignias) is pretty much a copy off GW1 made to look different with classes removed. SWTOR did the story missions things first, TSW just did it better.
The only daring thing Funcom did was the change to the quest/mission journal, I was put off by it at first but now I realise it's actually a much better way to present the stories and keeps you focused on what you are doing.
Name a more innovative MMO this year.
Now as much as i like GW2, no way is it more innovative.
WvW is a casualised RVR
Events are a progression from PQs and Invasions
Getting rid of trinity? hmm perhaps thats innovative, i dont know.
Theres an inverted power curve, compared to the exponential one of WOW type games, but then again TSW has the same idea as GW2 in that regard anyway.
I like TSW, I'm loving it actually. But I've gotta say.. TSW has done nothing innovative, except investigation missions and 'some' sabotage missions I suppose. The skill system and item system (glyths + signates = runes and insignias) is pretty much a copy off GW1 made to look different with classes removed. SWTOR did the story missions things first, TSW just did it better.
The only daring thing Funcom did was the change to the quest/mission journal, I was put off by it at first but now I realise it's actually a much better way to present the stories and keeps you focused on what you are doing.
Name a more innovative MMO this year.
Now as much as i like GW2, no way is it more innovative.
WvW is a casualised RVR
Events are a progression from PQs and Invasions
Getting rid of trinity? hmm perhaps thats innovative, i dont know.
Theres an inverted power curve, compared to the exponential one of WOW type games, but then again TSW has the same idea as GW2 in that regard anyway.
Just because there hasn't been any innovative MMO's this year doesn't mean TSW is innovative. Nor did I mention GW2. The inverted power curve you mentioned was in GW1 as well, another aspect of GW1 that TSW has taken ideas from.
People are just thinking a good game means it's innovative, it doesn't.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I like TSW, I'm loving it actually. But I've gotta say.. TSW has done nothing innovative, except investigation missions and 'some' sabotage missions I suppose. The skill system and item system (glyths + signates = runes and insignias) is pretty much a copy off GW1 made to look different with classes removed. SWTOR did the story missions things first, TSW just did it better.
The only daring thing Funcom did was the change to the quest/mission journal, I was put off by it at first but now I realise it's actually a much better way to present the stories and keeps you focused on what you are doing.
Name a more innovative MMO this year.
Now as much as i like GW2, no way is it more innovative.
WvW is a casualised RVR
Events are a progression from PQs and Invasions
Getting rid of trinity? hmm perhaps thats innovative, i dont know.
Theres an inverted power curve, compared to the exponential one of WOW type games, but then again TSW has the same idea as GW2 in that regard anyway.
Just because there hasn't been any innovative MMO's this year doesn't mean TSW is innovative. Nor did I mention GW2.
People are just thinking a good game means it's innovative, it doesn't.
First of all... the thread is about "the most innovative game of the year" so the title would be in comparison of the rest of the game for this year. Second, there do is innovation in TSW, and for what i've read, in GW2, too.
You are absolutely right, a good game doesn't need to be innovative, and an innovative game doesn't mean that it IS good. Some great games bring nothing new, just better application of existing ideas, and some trully innovative games have been outrigth horrible.
Thats what innovation means. It actualy comes from the latin word innovatus (i know latin me is no dumb) : to renew.
You think it means so much more cause its the current buzz word. If you played more TSW you would know that its just an advertising trick from the illuminati to control you.
Innovation means introducing something new. A redesigned old feature is still an old feature.
Edit: cut out some of the quotes.
Sorry to end your long ranting mission to pick hairs over wording but
in·no·vate
[in-uh-veyt] Show IPAverb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.
with the key part being "make changes in anything established"
You're absolutely right! I was wrong. Anything and everything is an innovation.
You're just looking at things the wrong way. Take a car for example. Cars are still cars and altough there have been changes, most work as they have for a long time in principal. Would we say there has been no innovations in the automobile field because the steering wheel still turns the car? The break pedal stops it? The gas pedal makes it go?
I'm just saying. It's a video game and an MMO. There is only so much you can change and TSW does a very good job at making everything feel fresh... at least in my opinion.
I agree with you. I just think that in order for the game to be "the most innovative MMO of the year," it needs to bring something new to the genre, otherwise the title loses it's meaning. I mean most MMOs change a few things that they borrowed from their predecessors but would you honestly call the multitude of "WoW clones" as innovative?
I guess that's where our opinions differ. Mind you, I'm not saying that TSW is a bad game. I've really enjoyed playing it. I'm just saying that I don't think that it deserves the title.
And you may be correct. I would vote for it at the moment just because everything else I've played this year has been dog poopy. However, with Gw2 on the horizon and potentially a few others, I'll reserve judgment fo the most innovative. I hear good things about gw2, though this weekend will be my first time in game.
TSW is the first themepark Ive picked up in many years and thought "Maybe themepark devs are listening to my kind". Its difficult and requires some brains to play.
That being said, Sandboxes are still my favorite type of MMO.
The TV set was an invention. Color TV's were an innovation.
Given that "innovative" means "presenting something old in a new way", there's plenty of innovation in TSW. For TSW to be "the most innovative MMORPG of the year", it simply has to have more features that are "presented in a new way" than any other MMO launched in 2012.
The setting is innovative (modern day setting)
The limited quest journal (with ability to "pause" a quest) is innovative
The investigation quests are innovative (strong case here for "never seen before" in respect of the quests that require you to visit fake websites, created specially for the game, to find answers)
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Those are all innovative features, with 3 and 4 being strong contenders for "inventive".
EDIT:
Point 4 is no longer a contender, because Champions Online already had statless gear a long time ago.
Q: How can a game that actually doesnt innovate feel like a game that is?
A: The last 10 years of mmorpgs have all use the exact same mechaics and systems...and the key here...have deliverd them all in the same exact manner.
This game sure as hell feel like a game thats innovative simply because its not the standard affair..no race to endgame..no quest hub hopping...no classes...ect.
To top it all off the combat plays like no other game...yeah some hate it but its different and the fist mmorpg ive played in a while where i could identify the game simply by its combat mechanics...the other being tera.
So while every aspect of this game has been done before in some way shape or form, it certainly doesnt look feel or play like any other game out there...and that is what is so innovative...finally getting a game that doesnt play like the rest.
Q: How can a game that actually doesnt innovate feel like a game that is?
A: The last 10 years of mmorpgs have all use the exact same mechaics and systems...and the key here...have deliverd them all in the same exact manner.
This game sure as hell feel like a game thats innovative simply because its not the standard affair..no race to endgame..no quest hub hopping...no classes...ect.
To top it all off the combat plays like no other game...yeah some hate it but its different and the fist mmorpg ive played in a while where i could identify the game simply by its combat mechanics...the other being tera.
So while every aspect of this game has been done before in some way shape or form, it certainly doesnt look feel or play like any other game out there...and that is what is so innovative...finally getting a game that doesnt play like the rest.
I think you are on to something here. TSW uses a lot of known mechanics, but the way it's put together is innovative. For instance how they changed the quest mechanic to make investigation missions actually matter instead of being something you pick up and hope you stumble upon the solution.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
The TV set was an invention. Color TV's were an innovation.
Given that "innovative" means "presenting something old in a new way", there's plenty of innovation in TSW. For TSW to be "the most innovative MMORPG of the year", it simply has to have more features that are "presented in a new way" than any other MMO launched in 2012.
Be careful with that definition. Any game is 'Innovative' by what you list. A WoW clone with better graphics, and everything else the same, would be a graphic innovation. Change a books font to a new easy to read font, and it becomes 'innovative', while otherwise being plagarism.
I personally like TSW overall, the Investigation quests are new to me. But seriously everything else has been done in one fashion or another.
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by SpottyGekkoOriginally posted by dreamscaperOriginally posted by VannorOriginally posted by SpottyGekkoThe setting is innovative (modern day setting)APB is modern day, as one example The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible) Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012 Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?In Rift and EQ2 you can. You could in SWG as well. And *gasp!* you could actually make the clothes in that game with a tailor prof instead of buying them in a cash shop.
Comments
I agree with you. I just think that in order for the game to be "the most innovative MMO of the year," it needs to bring something new to the genre, otherwise the title loses it's meaning. I mean most MMOs change a few things that they borrowed from their predecessors but would you honestly call the multitude of "WoW clones" as innovative?
I guess that's where our opinions differ. Mind you, I'm not saying that TSW is a bad game. I've really enjoyed playing it. I'm just saying that I don't think that it deserves the title.
I like TSW, I'm loving it actually. But I've gotta say.. TSW has done nothing innovative, except investigation missions and 'some' sabotage missions I suppose. The skill system and item system (glyths + signates = runes and insignias) is pretty much a copy off GW1 made to look different with classes removed. SWTOR did the story missions things first, TSW just did it better.
The only daring thing Funcom did was the change to the quest/mission journal, I was put off by it at first but now I realise it's actually a much better way to present the stories and keeps you focused on what you are doing.
Innovation doesn't necessarily have to be any one thing, but on the whole how all the features and gameplay are put together. You can take used ideas from past games, put them together in such a way, that it is indeed innovative, without having a shred of new material. It is the adaptation of the ideas and methods in a new way that make it innovative.
The modern setting (which I don't see often), with skills instead of classes (although you can make classes), with 3 factions, investigative, that uses real world information, legends, myths,conspiracies, and probably a few more things I am forgetting, is what makes TSW innovative as a whole.
Now, I am not saying it is ground breaking innovation, but not exactly the same old same old either. A different arrangement of pieces.
Also innovation doesn't have to be huge, just something small. When somone patents a product, another can make a small change to that item, idea, and patent it themselves because it is something new (an innovation), even if it is practically the same. Also innovation does not mean it is good either. Plenty of innovations throughout history that failed miserably.
Well this is the first think you posted that didnt sound like you were just Trolling ;0)
and I actually agree ... Do I think TSW is a fresh spin on MMOs - Yes
Am I having fun playing it ? - Yes
Do I think its the most innovative game ever - No
This.
Judging from the responses I've seen towards the last couple of titles that have been released,,it's pretty obvious that there is a segment of posters on this forum who claim to want something different, but will never be happy because there is no way a developer can make one that is different enough for them.
You guys need to checkout the winners of this "reward" over the past couple years.
I guess what it comes down to is you think the reward is BS in itself, maybe they should change the name to avoid the confusion.
Actually more than it being about how innovative TSW it's on itself it will come down to how innovative are the whole lot of the games that will be released for the period.
A game with a slight sliver of innovation would be the most innovative of a year in which all other titles were cookie cutter copies. A very innovative game would lose the title in front of a crop of high innovative ones, too.
What innovation is in the other games for this year? This is not a question of which one is better, but a comparison on the innovative elements games this year might come up with. That should be what determine who lands that title.
I honestly see TSW as a good contender for it, but haven't played all the rest, so i can't say if it is THE one, or not. I hear that GW2 brings new approaches too, which is rather good, and Archage too, all in all what i see it's a better group of games being developed/published than previous years. Which is good, and should be enjoyed by us, no matter which one of them is the one we personally prefere.
Name a more innovative MMO this year.
Now as much as i like GW2, no way is it more innovative.
WvW is a casualised RVR
Events are a progression from PQs and Invasions
Getting rid of trinity? hmm perhaps thats innovative, i dont know.
Theres an inverted power curve, compared to the exponential one of WOW type games, but then again TSW has the same idea as GW2 in that regard anyway.
Just because there hasn't been any innovative MMO's this year doesn't mean TSW is innovative. Nor did I mention GW2. The inverted power curve you mentioned was in GW1 as well, another aspect of GW1 that TSW has taken ideas from.
People are just thinking a good game means it's innovative, it doesn't.
First of all... the thread is about "the most innovative game of the year" so the title would be in comparison of the rest of the game for this year. Second, there do is innovation in TSW, and for what i've read, in GW2, too.
You are absolutely right, a good game doesn't need to be innovative, and an innovative game doesn't mean that it IS good. Some great games bring nothing new, just better application of existing ideas, and some trully innovative games have been outrigth horrible.
And you may be correct. I would vote for it at the moment just because everything else I've played this year has been dog poopy. However, with Gw2 on the horizon and potentially a few others, I'll reserve judgment fo the most innovative. I hear good things about gw2, though this weekend will be my first time in game.
TSW is the first themepark Ive picked up in many years and thought "Maybe themepark devs are listening to my kind". Its difficult and requires some brains to play.
That being said, Sandboxes are still my favorite type of MMO.
Innovate = presenting something old in a new way
Invent = creating something never seen before
Those are 2 totally different concepts.
The TV set was an invention. Color TV's were an innovation.
Given that "innovative" means "presenting something old in a new way", there's plenty of innovation in TSW. For TSW to be "the most innovative MMORPG of the year", it simply has to have more features that are "presented in a new way" than any other MMO launched in 2012.
Those are all innovative features, with 3 and 4 being strong contenders for "inventive".
EDIT:
Point 4 is no longer a contender, because Champions Online already had statless gear a long time ago.
Well i think the real issue here is:
Q: How can a game that actually doesnt innovate feel like a game that is?
A: The last 10 years of mmorpgs have all use the exact same mechaics and systems...and the key here...have deliverd them all in the same exact manner.
This game sure as hell feel like a game thats innovative simply because its not the standard affair..no race to endgame..no quest hub hopping...no classes...ect.
To top it all off the combat plays like no other game...yeah some hate it but its different and the fist mmorpg ive played in a while where i could identify the game simply by its combat mechanics...the other being tera.
So while every aspect of this game has been done before in some way shape or form, it certainly doesnt look feel or play like any other game out there...and that is what is so innovative...finally getting a game that doesnt play like the rest.
I think you are on to something here. TSW uses a lot of known mechanics, but the way it's put together is innovative. For instance how they changed the quest mechanic to make investigation missions actually matter instead of being something you pick up and hope you stumble upon the solution.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
I definately consider TSW a superhero MMO, just not a comic book style one. We are modern day humans with superhuman powers...
Its way too early to be making statements about the whole year, but either way TSW is considerably less innovative than GW2.
Be careful with that definition. Any game is 'Innovative' by what you list. A WoW clone with better graphics, and everything else the same, would be a graphic innovation. Change a books font to a new easy to read font, and it becomes 'innovative', while otherwise being plagarism.
I personally like TSW overall, the Investigation quests are new to me. But seriously everything else has been done in one fashion or another.
I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012
Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?
In Rift and EQ2 you can.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012 Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?
In Rift and EQ2 you can.
You could in SWG as well. And *gasp!* you could actually make the clothes in that game with a tailor prof instead of buying them in a cash shop.
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