Didn't OP flounced off the forums a couple of weeks ago because of GW2 harassment or something? Well, I guess a welcome back is in order sir.
As to your topic. No, GW2's spvp cannot be its greatest strength and weakness because of the same factor i.e. bring mostly skill based. Folks might get frustrated when they're blown up now and then but I think that's better than being frustrated because you had no chance to win (as it is in gear based pvp). And I bet they'll feel good when they manage to best other people and can credit their skill and not gear for the victory.
If GW2's spvp was skill based but also hard an wall for entry such as group premade group entry only such as GvG or HA, then yes it could be a weakness. As it is right now spvp that can be hot joined is the best arena-based pvp set-up I've seen especially without a dedicated healer class.
GW2 standard pvp is nothing more than gloriied 5v5 alliance battles. There is also WvW but thats nothing more than zerg here and zerg there. Thats why the pvp will fail for the long term.
For WvW being "zerg here, zerg there" zerging didn't seem to do too well for the guys being annihilated despite a 10:1 numbers advantage in this video.
Now on to the actual topic at hand. The OP is right about one thing (much like my good buddy Alders pointed out), and that is that Average Joe MMOer will not be able to fully enjoy and will be frustrated beyond belief. But that point is negated by the fact that non-skilled players should have never even been able to feel like they were "awesome" or successful. If a player wanted that, they can go roll a Rogue or Mage in WoW. Even players that are god-awful at those classes can be a nuisance to good players because of their dozens of defensive cooldowns and hard CC spells.
Eh. Don't even bother putting so much effort into responding to mephster. He just has fun trollin' around our happy fun-time forums :P
OT: Yeahhh... Not actually gonna deal with this one.
I have a feeling it will also be its greatest weakness as well.
You see, everyone has been going around procliaming to the high heavens of how amazing GW2 is and how all other MMO's are faceroll EZmode games where all anyone needs is the best gear and they dont need skills.
So these same people talk about how GW2 will be the be-all, end-all of MMO greatness because it takes real skill........and if this is the case then this game will have serious issues, because the vast majority of these people don't have skills and are gonna go into GW2's PvP and get beat crushed by the best players and guilds. And they will no longer be having "fun" as so many of you claim GW2 is all about. The two great Pillars of GW2, Skills and fun. Neither of which Joe Average MMOer will be having because they wont be able to compete in PVP, and the PVE in GW2 is average at best so that wont help either.
So yes, while GW2 PVP will be its great strength, it will also be its greatest weakness.
GW2 standard pvp is nothing more than gloriied 5v5 alliance battles. There is also WvW but thats nothing more than zerg here and zerg there. Thats why the pvp will fail for the long term.
It's true, any game that involves usage of player skill is bound to fail.
Let's just pile GW2 on with the other skill-based reject games nobody remembers like chess, go, most every FPS ever, various RTS games, fighting games, and such.
I wish GW2 could be more like (Insert OP's favorite MMORPG that is totally the biggest Esport in the world, and actually rivals football for international popularity).
and I feel the majority of the people who say that they are skilled and repeatedly how much they are going to "roll the noobs who don't know how to dodge" are actually not that skilled. The majority of the people who frequent the gw2 board believe they are skill and pros but really the only thing they are pro at is fanboyism.
its easy to be an elitist when the game is not even released yet.
I have to agree with this statement to a large extent. Over and over I see the notion that GW2 will remove the gear differences and only skill will remain. This along with the elitist attitude about ace rolling noobs in PVP.
But this really backfires and reveals the lack of skill by those who make those claims.
Because in all the other MMOs where we would be comparing PVP too, if you were worthy of being an elite, you'd all have the same gear and it then becomes only about skill.
The only ones who worry about gear differences were those who didn't have it and they didn't ave it because they weren't that good.
and I feel the majority of the people who say that they are skilled and repeatedly how much they are going to "roll the noobs who don't know how to dodge" are actually not that skilled. The majority of the people who frequent the gw2 board believe they are skill and pros but really the only thing they are pro at is fanboyism.
its easy to be an elitist when the game is not even released yet.
I have to agree with this statement to a large extent. Over and over I see the notion that GW2 will remove the gear differences and only skill will remain. This along with the elitist attitude about ace rolling noobs in PVP.
But this really backfires and reveals the lack of skill by those who make those claims.
Because in all the other MMOs where we would be comparing PVP too, if you were worthy of being an elite, you'd all have the same gear and it then becomes only about skill.
The only ones who worry about gear differences were those who didn't have it and they didn't ave it because they weren't that good.
This seems strange to me ,I've seen about 5 major threads in these forums where folks came here and post about how good open world pvper's they are and how all GW2 has is carebear pvp . Yet these two posters turn that 180 and claim frequent GW2 posters are the ones that believe they are the skilled ones ...makes me wonder when all I've seen are posts by WOW arena players and sand box gankers claiming to be the living end as far as pvp is concerned .
and I feel the majority of the people who say that they are skilled and repeatedly how much they are going to "roll the noobs who don't know how to dodge" are actually not that skilled. The majority of the people who frequent the gw2 board believe they are skill and pros but really the only thing they are pro at is fanboyism.
its easy to be an elitist when the game is not even released yet.
I have to agree with this statement to a large extent. Over and over I see the notion that GW2 will remove the gear differences and only skill will remain. This along with the elitist attitude about ace rolling noobs in PVP.
But this really backfires and reveals the lack of skill by those who make those claims.
Because in all the other MMOs where we would be comparing PVP too, if you were worthy of being an elite, you'd all have the same gear and it then becomes only about skill.
The only ones who worry about gear differences were those who didn't have it and they didn't ave it because they weren't that good.
This seems strange to me ,I've seen about 5 major threads in these forums where folks came here and post about how good open world pvper's they are and how all GW2 has is carebear pvp . Yet these two posters turn that 180 and claim frequent GW2 posters are the ones that believe they are the skilled ones ...makes me wonder when all I've seen are posts by WOW arena players and sand box gankers claiming to be the living end as far as pvp is concerned .
I am not attacking GW2 or WoW Arena. What I am saying is...People aren never as good as they think they are...or at least as good as they claim to be in internet forum.
World PVP doesn't make great PVPers either. When you read forum posts about who's the best....Don't believe it.
Honestly, IMO, the truly best of the best are top geared PVPers in MMOs. Everyone else is just a wannabe. (that includes me too. I'm no PVP elite)
I am not attacking GW2 or WoW Arena. What I am saying is...People aren never as good as they think they are...or at least as good as they claim to be in internet forum.
World PVP doesn't make great PVPers either. When you read forum posts about who's the best....Don't believe it.
Honestly, IMO, the truly best of the best are top geared PVPers in MMOs. Everyone else is just a wannabe. (that includes me too. I'm no PVP elite)
Actually I agree with this both here and in real life .... when someone is really good at something everyone knows it ,when someone has to tell you how good they are they really aren't that good.
I am not attacking GW2 or WoW Arena. What I am saying is...People aren never as good as they think they are...or at least as good as they claim to be in internet forum.
World PVP doesn't make great PVPers either. When you read forum posts about who's the best....Don't believe it.
Honestly, IMO, the truly best of the best are top geared PVPers in MMOs. Everyone else is just a wannabe. (that includes me too. I'm no PVP elite)
Actually I agree with this both here and in real life .... when someone is really good at something everyone knows it ,when someone has to tell you how good they are they really aren't that good.
Reminds me of a T-Shirt I once saw. "Real Four Wheel Drive Trucks Don't have 4X4 on them."
I don't care what other people think of my PvP skill (or lack thereof), not sure why anyone does. The tournaments are there for the leetz crewz to show their skillz, the hot-join sPvP matches are for casual players (casual doesn't mean unskilled, just that it's less srs bizniz).
Unskilled players will adapt or quit. Period. Its about time some actual skill entered the mix. Where actual player skill can be recognized and appreciated. In this case perhapes even greatly so.
Games used to be all about that. All skill based. And little kids coped fine with that. I remember the 80s and it all worked out just fine.
So there's no reason an 12 year old couldnt be an amazing GW2 player, or a 65 year old. You'll learn, adapt, and improve. Such is life. And Im glad a game is immulating that instead of catering to the instant gratification society. Where skill is absent the game just feels slightly pointless and empty.
Instead of chasing the carrot, you'll be trying to improve and learn how to play. Thats aces in my book. You may have to actually use your brain with this one. Do you have what it takes? We'll find out.
This kinda has me perplexed. First of all GW has always supported those who seek instant gratification, it's very foundation is about breaking down the boundaries of what the average player can take part in. This will not change in GW2. They seem to be taking the game completely toward that kind of goal.
Second I have to wonder what games you're describing where things are just handed to you and do not come at a cost of both educating yourself (L2P), as well as earning your tools of the trade? GW1 is the only MMORPG-like I've played that did anything close to such a thing and even there most costs were there some where.
MMO's at least the ones I've played, were all about learning and gave nothing away without some form of substantial cost be it time (grind), credits, and at times socialization skills.
A lot of people seem to have simply played the wrong games if challenge and skill is what they were after. At least based on the posts I read around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have a feeling it will also be its greatest weakness as well.
You see, everyone has been going around procliaming to the high heavens of how amazing GW2 is and how all other MMO's are faceroll EZmode games where all anyone needs is the best gear and they dont need skills.
So these same people talk about how GW2 will be the be-all, end-all of MMO greatness because it takes real skill........and if this is the case then this game will have serious issues, because the vast majority of these people don't have skills and are gonna go into GW2's PvP and get beat crushed by the best players and guilds. And they will no longer be having "fun" as so many of you claim GW2 is all about. The two great Pillars of GW2, Skills and fun. Neither of which Joe Average MMOer will be having because they wont be able to compete in PVP, and the PVE in GW2 is average at best so that wont help either.
So yes, while GW2 PVP will be its great strength, it will also be its greatest weakness.
You're missing the fact that sPvP is split over 2 types: hot join matches and tournaments. Joe Avg MMO'er will be in the hot join matches, John 1337 Skillz and his 1337les will be playing tournaments and when they feel like some hot joining jumping on and off they'll probably create their own server (match) and don't let Joe Avg MMO'er and his friends in.
Fact Remains that kids with nimble fingers always will pwn 99% of the population. It will ofcourse annoy 99% of the pop. When this happens. Thats why wow pvp always was a niche when comparing to pve
Inexperienced gamers will eventually gain experience in PVP in order to become competitive. If they don't, then their performance in PVP will be poor. I don't see that as unrealistic or game breaking.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Inexperienced gamers will eventually gain experience in PVP in order to become competitive. If they don't, then their performance in PVP will be poor. I don't see that as unrealistic or game breaking.
This is just not true. It s all about being nimble with fingers and hitting the right skill.
and when they feel like some hot joining jumping on and off they'll probably create their own server (match) and don't let Joe Avg MMO'er and his friends in.
While I agree with your post, this is not possible, at least yet.
and when they feel like some hot joining jumping on and off they'll probably create their own server (match) and don't let Joe Avg MMO'er and his friends in.
While I agree with your post, this is not possible, at least yet.
Not (yet) supported by selection boxes and the likes but it take little imagination to accomplish it:
It's possible for John 1337 Skillz to join any open server with 0 players on it and then share the link with his 1337les to all join that server so the maximum amount of players for the server is reached. So essentially with the current system in place it's already possible to setup your own server as long as you have the right amount of players.
If somehow the other players don't join that server fast enough and Joe Avg MMO'er gets in before all 1337les are they can just ask him kindly to pick another server or hit the button in the PvP panel again for a random one.
Skills and fun. Neither of which Joe Average MMOer will be having because they wont be able to compete in PVP
not sure who Joe Average MMOer is.... but i guess its a dumb guy without any arms who can only have fun if he wins and can trow random sentences like "im leet" and "ur noobs" at other people.
Since everyone who really plays games because they are fun will be abe to play gw2, i can live with that
Not (yet) supported by selection boxes and the likes but it take little imagination to accomplish it:
It's possible for John 1337 Skillz to join any open server with 0 players on it and then share the link with his 1337les to all join that server so the maximum amount of players for the server is reached. So essentially with the current system in place it's already possible to setup your own server as long as you have the right amount of players.
If somehow the other players don't join that server fast enough and Joe Avg MMO'er gets in before all 1337les are they can just ask him kindly to pick another server or hit the button in the PvP panel again for a random one.
While we are on it, have they said anything about making it possible to join with a group (at non-tournament play that is) ?
Comments
Obvious troll thread, we've had lots of those lately, move along nothing to see here
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Didn't OP flounced off the forums a couple of weeks ago because of GW2 harassment or something? Well, I guess a welcome back is in order sir.
As to your topic. No, GW2's spvp cannot be its greatest strength and weakness because of the same factor i.e. bring mostly skill based. Folks might get frustrated when they're blown up now and then but I think that's better than being frustrated because you had no chance to win (as it is in gear based pvp). And I bet they'll feel good when they manage to best other people and can credit their skill and not gear for the victory.
If GW2's spvp was skill based but also hard an wall for entry such as group premade group entry only such as GvG or HA, then yes it could be a weakness. As it is right now spvp that can be hot joined is the best arena-based pvp set-up I've seen especially without a dedicated healer class.
Eh. Don't even bother putting so much effort into responding to mephster. He just has fun trollin' around our happy fun-time forums :P
OT: Yeahhh... Not actually gonna deal with this one.
What did I just read?
This must be how you make a living.
It's true, any game that involves usage of player skill is bound to fail.
Let's just pile GW2 on with the other skill-based reject games nobody remembers like chess, go, most every FPS ever, various RTS games, fighting games, and such.
I wish GW2 could be more like (Insert OP's favorite MMORPG that is totally the biggest Esport in the world, and actually rivals football for international popularity).
I have to agree with this statement to a large extent. Over and over I see the notion that GW2 will remove the gear differences and only skill will remain. This along with the elitist attitude about ace rolling noobs in PVP.
But this really backfires and reveals the lack of skill by those who make those claims.
Because in all the other MMOs where we would be comparing PVP too, if you were worthy of being an elite, you'd all have the same gear and it then becomes only about skill.
The only ones who worry about gear differences were those who didn't have it and they didn't ave it because they weren't that good.
This seems strange to me ,I've seen about 5 major threads in these forums where folks came here and post about how good open world pvper's they are and how all GW2 has is carebear pvp . Yet these two posters turn that 180 and claim frequent GW2 posters are the ones that believe they are the skilled ones ...makes me wonder when all I've seen are posts by WOW arena players and sand box gankers claiming to be the living end as far as pvp is concerned .
I am not attacking GW2 or WoW Arena. What I am saying is...People aren never as good as they think they are...or at least as good as they claim to be in internet forum.
World PVP doesn't make great PVPers either. When you read forum posts about who's the best....Don't believe it.
Honestly, IMO, the truly best of the best are top geared PVPers in MMOs. Everyone else is just a wannabe. (that includes me too. I'm no PVP elite)
Actually I agree with this both here and in real life .... when someone is really good at something everyone knows it ,when someone has to tell you how good they are they really aren't that good.
Reminds me of a T-Shirt I once saw. "Real Four Wheel Drive Trucks Don't have 4X4 on them."
I don't care what other people think of my PvP skill (or lack thereof), not sure why anyone does. The tournaments are there for the leetz crewz to show their skillz, the hot-join sPvP matches are for casual players (casual doesn't mean unskilled, just that it's less srs bizniz).
I feel dumber for reading the OP post....
This kinda has me perplexed. First of all GW has always supported those who seek instant gratification, it's very foundation is about breaking down the boundaries of what the average player can take part in. This will not change in GW2. They seem to be taking the game completely toward that kind of goal.
Second I have to wonder what games you're describing where things are just handed to you and do not come at a cost of both educating yourself (L2P), as well as earning your tools of the trade? GW1 is the only MMORPG-like I've played that did anything close to such a thing and even there most costs were there some where.
MMO's at least the ones I've played, were all about learning and gave nothing away without some form of substantial cost be it time (grind), credits, and at times socialization skills.
A lot of people seem to have simply played the wrong games if challenge and skill is what they were after. At least based on the posts I read around here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You're missing the fact that sPvP is split over 2 types: hot join matches and tournaments. Joe Avg MMO'er will be in the hot join matches, John 1337 Skillz and his 1337les will be playing tournaments and when they feel like some hot joining jumping on and off they'll probably create their own server (match) and don't let Joe Avg MMO'er and his friends in.
Inexperienced gamers will eventually gain experience in PVP in order to become competitive. If they don't, then their performance in PVP will be poor. I don't see that as unrealistic or game breaking.
This is just not true. It s all about being nimble with fingers and hitting the right skill.While I agree with your post, this is not possible, at least yet.
Not (yet) supported by selection boxes and the likes but it take little imagination to accomplish it:
It's possible for John 1337 Skillz to join any open server with 0 players on it and then share the link with his 1337les to all join that server so the maximum amount of players for the server is reached. So essentially with the current system in place it's already possible to setup your own server as long as you have the right amount of players.
If somehow the other players don't join that server fast enough and Joe Avg MMO'er gets in before all 1337les are they can just ask him kindly to pick another server or hit the button in the PvP panel again for a random one.
Skills and fun. Neither of which Joe Average MMOer will be having because they wont be able to compete in PVP
not sure who Joe Average MMOer is.... but i guess its a dumb guy without any arms who can only have fun if he wins and can trow random sentences like "im leet" and "ur noobs" at other people.
Since everyone who really plays games because they are fun will be abe to play gw2, i can live with that
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
Interesting... while PvP may indeed be one of GW2s greatest strengths, I found the PvE to be another one of its greatest strengths as well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
While we are on it, have they said anything about making it possible to join with a group (at non-tournament play that is) ?