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Woman & Hiding their Identity Online
Fadedbomb
Member Posts: 2,081
When was the last time you actually knew the true gender of the players around you in an MMO or on these forums?
Time after time I've found Male characters being played by Woman, and Female characters being played by Men. Most of the time it almost feels like an odd adventure into the Land of Oz at the ratio of Men to Woman in the Online spectrum.
However, what I've found most peculiar is the need for any female in general to have to hide themselves from immature males in this online environment that we call the Internet. Why do you, oh females of the Net, find the need to hide yourselves from the world around you? Are the current tools at your disposal such as ignore, block, report, kick, not powerful enough to help you?
Is it simply a way to cloak yourself in true anonymity & hide from those awkward situations with cave dwellers that have barely interacted with females IRL, or do you have more seclusive reasons? Perhaps you simply don't wish to hurt the feelings of those around you by standing up for yourself, or is it quite simply just easier to hide amongst the crowd thereby dodging any situation that might render you feeling vulnerable?
As a man playing online for many years I've always felt bad that woman as a whole have to hide their gender simply in fear of being stalked/harassed/judged simply because they're female & they happen to like the internet as much as I do. I simply don't understand why the environment is so acceptable by both parties to allow this kind of crap to continue.
I'm making this thread primarily because of a conversation I had this weekend with my sisters & female guild members on the subject, and how they constantly find the need to play Male characters & never actually get to express themselves in fear of the aforementioned issues, and previous guilds (or current ones my sisters are in for other games) that openly allow this sort of harassment simply because said members may not know better.
I'd like to challenge any Guild/Clan/Group that currently exist to openly discourage such behavior even if said members "don't know any better". Specifically, my younger sister currently plays WoW & has to deal with a mentally handicapped member who sticks to her like glue constantly, and gets physically upset on the guild ventrilo (thereby completely embarassing her) when she's not playing with said member. Seriously, I'm all for treating handicapped people with a little less restrictiveness, but that would anger me to the point of yelling should it ever occur in my current guild. If she had hidden her identity as a female it could have all been avoided, however she would have lost out of the ability to truly express herself for who she is thereby demeaning her experience as a whole....and that's the ENTIRE problem!
Am I simply rambling here because I'm a little loopy from Monday-Morning Work, or is anyone else feeling the same way :I?
TLDR;
I'm pissed off because the current paradigm is that it's ok for Woman to have to hide their identity while playing online simply because the need is there. Why the hell is it acceptable to allow situations that force this kind of preasure thereby spawning the need to begin with? I don't think it's ever ok for a situation to arrise that warrants being forced to hide who & what you are simply because others are ok with said situations happening. Isn't there a way to change this mentality?
ps: I've been around for awhile so I very well know that it's been this way for some time, but in my book that doesn't make it right seeing as how it's 2012 already!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Comments
Another thing is that females are not respected as group leaders and their opinions about tactics are quickly dismissed by male gamers. Could be that remaining relevant and respected in that way is a primary and legit concern.
Come to think of it, I've never once met a female Raid Leader. The hell :I?
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I don't put up with it in my guild. It's a violation of our rules and would likely earn you an insta-guild kick.
My theme song.
I played AoC for about 18 months, 12 of them in the same guild which had a good portion of female players. I don't think they were treated any different than anybody else. We used vent to talk when raiding, so no hiding there.
I would assume that any woman who dresses as you say is comfortable dressing in that fashion and:
A, feels they can handle anyone who makes any comments or
B, feels that they have the right to dress any way they want and that no one has the right to comment on how they dress no matter how they dress.
This doesn't mean that women on line should feel comfortable revealing their identity.
Are the women who dress in very short "shorts' the same women who play online games?
Can we assume that any woman can make the decision to obsscure their identity even though they might, in the moment, feel comfortable dressnig in very short "shorts"?
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^ /10char
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
For this to change, everyone of us would have to take responsibility, not only for our actions, but also for our inactions. Of course that can be hard work.
When you see someone throwing out harassing statements, slurs, you would have to challenge them. When they claim it was all in good fun, you'd have to explain to them that this isn't really funny for the affected person. When they claim you are just too sensitive, you would have to explain that in fact they are too insensitive.
You may or may not get backup from your guild mates, which is also dependent on who's on at that time. You may even find yourself in the minority if you are arguing against someone and their friends are on and providing backup against you.
You could even make it - right at that time - worse for the target of the slur by prolonging the debate and bringing more attention to it. Maybe the target of the remark has developed a thick skin and isn't bothered by it, and might even take offense at you butting in.
Maybe you have been the target of slurs and attacks yourself and just are glad it isn't you this time.
It gets even more complicated if the behavior isn't overtly hostile or intended that way, like the case the OP brings up. (Assuming he wasn't using "mentally handicapped" just as an attack himself) Would you make the effort of trying to explain to a mentally handicapped person that their behavior is inappropriate?
I have let sexist and homophobic slurs slide, telling myself, it's all in good fun, everybody knows it's just a friendly tease, it's just a one-off remark, it wasn't directed at me, no one is speaking up, so no one is taking offense, I'm not gonna make any waves over one off-color remark, I don't want to argue against that guy and all his buddies, it's their guild after all.
I guess I'm not always a good person when I could be.
I legitimately meant a "HandiCapped" individual whos physical age is 19 but has a mental maturity of about 9. Again, not his fault, but it is the fault of those surrounding him to allow his behavior to go unchecked. Just because someone is mentally handicapped doesn't mean they're completely inept and learning from their actions, and if they are completely incapable of learning from their actions they shouldn't be in said guild to begin with.
Just my 2cents
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
So a few things...
1) I notice that girls tend to be more obvious when playing anime styled games because the models are pretier, like Tera and some other f2p games like Aion etc.
2) When playing a game feels more like work, or a therapist session ... your doing it wrong.
The way I see it, is that women and men can play whatever they want since well its a game. Even in real life who are you or who am I to tell someone else they can't do something? (unless its obviously wrong)
3) On a side note, I feel the USA needs to stop being so prude and open up to their sexuality a lot more. Take some advice from Europe ... they know what there doing.
Too much speculation on what others think is the real problem, don't let internet trolls eat your confidence up.
P.S. It is up to your guild enforcer to prevent forest fires. Also remember to apply aloe from time to time.
Perhaps I might best, and most succinctly, sum it up as follows; I am the character, the character is not me. Asked and answered, mate: "...to hide themselves from immature males in this online environment..." Rather simple, wouldn't you agree? Hardly merits much discussion.
Still, if you insist: no, tools such as ignore/block (one and the same, really), report and kick are insufficient. Ignore/Block functions only to mute the individual, yet that does not halt them from following you in-game or otherwise "trolling" your character. Reporting someone is not an immediate or even certain censure to their harassment, given that the ticket (as most reporting is done via said systems) requires time to be processed and attended by a moderator/GM, whose ruling may well be in favor of the reported individual. As for "kicking" well, that particular function is fantastic should the female who wishes to kick someone from their group be leading it or otherwise able to persuade the party-leader to do so, yet, is otherwise useless. Furthermore, how would you set about "kicking" someone from overworld/hub?
What's more, not all harassment is verbal or explicitly prohibited by the game rules/mechanics. I, for instance, witnessed examples in both Darkfall Online, DDTank, World of Warcraft and Aion where a player was repeatedly targeted for PK'ing on account of their confirmed gender. What recourse did she have, might I ask? She could ignore them all, but what else? Report them? For what? Her argument is, essentially, "they're killing me"... and? Kicking them, needless to say, is worthless.
Are the tools available to halt harassment, gender-induced or otherwise, sufficient to mitigate such? No... but I thought everyone knew that?
Wow... just, wow...The insinuations that most men who play MMOs are "cave dwellers" coupled with the "poor, timid women" line is galling. Again, asked and answered. Then join a new guild.
Perhaps not the most sensitive manner of phrasing it, yet at times candor is called for over tact. Should they belong to a guild where harassment is tolerated, in any respect, leave. Furthermore, I would urge you, as a man who advocates a more tolerant attitude, to recommend they leave immediately. Preach away, mate, but apathy undermines even the most sublime of messages.
Nothing "loopy" about it, mate. I've empathized for years along with countless others. Gender-equality issues are hardly new, we just continually invent fresh boundaries on which to dispute them. It's not women's suffrage anymore, not in the modern world, it's women's rights to be women. ...and? I fail to see the correlation between the date and the matter at hand. As I wrote above, the pivotal issue remains unchanged, it's merely the field that's shifted. For crying out loud, mate, men and women have been arguing over it since before Jeremy Bentham and Christine de Pezan!It's not a readily resolvable issue, either, springing from our inherent differences and similarities, arising from generations fostered under unique circumstances, with memes and mores distinct to each. I've met women who are flattered when a man holds a door open for them and women who scorn those that would dare. I've known men who are publicly charming and soft-spoken, yet vile in their private lives, some who are brash in both and others who can never seem to muster the courage to even address a woman. Take all these people, throw them into a crucible with a million others, of varying permutations and ages, dash in a hearty amount of anonymity and is there truly any mystery left when someone asks: why are there so many intolerant people?
I didn't insinuate that most men who play mmo's are "cave dwellers" or that woman are "poor & timid". I think you're looking for something that isn't there, or you saw some stuff that looked similar to what you're poking @ me for and you overreacted?
I'm talking about THE "cave dwellers" that do exist almsot everywhere, and I was asking more specific questions about why they'd choose to hide their gender. Obviously if they had a direct answer that isn't one of those they'd clearly define it
.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
1st i dont think gender is relevant in mmorpg envoirement. Why should i care if the ppl i play online is a man, woman or whatever?
For me each one are a person with a personality, it can be nice, moron, polite, rude, friendly, agressive, etc. And this as nothing to do with gender.
When i meet someone in a mmo i never, ever ask his gender, i really dont care. Its a gamer like me, we play a game together, nothing more, so gender is really not important.
And ppl can allways lie, so why bother?
Well it becomes obvious in WOW raids as most used ventrillo. I've definitely met some female raid leaders (co-leaders). One had a sexy accent as well. hummina hummina.
I've never gotten to know a female WOWer that hadn't been stalked or harassed at some point though. I think things were much more mature in a game like LOTRO though.
As a guild leader in many mmorpg's I would never tolerate a male or female playing the sex opposite of them and pretending to be that sex, if they are male pretending to be female just to get more further ahead then I would kick them, but my main policy is everyone must be able to use a mic and talk on vent and if you can't and excuse after excuse then I boot you. It really sucks when a girl befriends you who is actually a male trying to get things, this has happened to me in the past about 6 years ago, so it has been going on for years. [mod edit]
I would assume that any woman who dresses as you say is comfortable dressing in that fashion and:
A, feels they can handle anyone who makes any comments or
B, feels that they have the right to dress any way they want and that no one has the right to comment on how they dress no matter how they dress.
This doesn't mean that women on line should feel comfortable revealing their identity.
Are the women who dress in very short "shorts' the same women who play online games?
Can we assume that any woman can make the decision to obsscure their identity even though they might, in the moment, feel comfortable dressnig in very short "shorts"?
I haven't actually met many real life females that play male characters, so I'm pretty much on an assumption about everything other than the respect issues.
Actually most females I've met in mmos were more than willing to reveal it, sometimes even expecting special treatment.
Side note:
I like to think that I'm neutral about player gender but I think the truth is that it's just way lower on my priority list in judging people.
Edit: I really don't mind the short shorts
Well let's see, mmorpg are a serious business for many people, it is the prime form of entertainment but is also a social hub. I don't know if you are a male or female but let's use this scenario and consider you a strait female. A player in game you meet who you think is a male player because they are male character started up a relationship with you and you enjoyed playing with them, you chat with them in game for months and play with them, but you never talk to them on a chat service. Then one day you find out that male toon is actually a female who is a lesbian and was hitting on you for months and you engaged in certain roleplay talks with because you like to roleplay your toon. Now you saying that it is not a problem that this happens all the time? It is more males doing it though using female toons.
My wife chooses names for her online characters that make it easy for anyone to know shes a girl, the amount of honry people who cant help but try talk to a girl and get to know her in a game.
I tell em all **** off and get your own XD
I dont blame girls for hiding their identity in MMO's now because of the actions of the immature men and kids online.
Its not all that rare, my Raiding guild i ran for a good 4 years in wow i had myself and my other 3-4 officers who would lead raids from time to time were women.
I look for two clauses: " 18+" and "no drama" when joining guilds. As one would expect, I've never encountered the OP's type of situation. Females were respected and treated nearly as equal as males (let's face it, they're still a novelty in some games).
I don't want to get into the age debate, but emotional maturity is key across the board. Some people are just damaged, or plain underdeveloped.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Umm it's called role play game for a reason, seems many of you are taking that out. It is a social game, you don't assume males are females and females are males just because, you will eventually find people you like to play with in these games and things may not seem what they appear and it happens to thousands of mmorpg gamers, if not tens of thousands. Mostly males being female toons, but you get the idea.
+1 to the thousandth power haha.
To the OP i totally understand your sisters situation, i play with my BF and even like that boys try to be flirty on me. Is kinda uncomfortable and in the game i play alone they most of the time wanna force me to go to ventrilo just to find out if im a real female or not, i dont go i dont even have ventrilo installed and why do they care im a girl or not.
And BTW some guys think because you are a girl you suck at games, ive seen a lot of those. I know a bunch of girl who can pwn them in pvp and i enjoy watching them loosing to this skilled girls xD
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On the flip side, we (ex-guild) had this one girl who was just starved for attention, acting like one of the guys... constantly yapping about how much of a cock hound she was. Being a pretty social group, we had a real life photo thread going. Let me tell you, the moment she posted her pic, there was an awkward silence that felt like 5 minutes. We then heard the familiar "user has left your channel" and never heard from her again.
We all know about the male gamer stereotype, but not all of these ladies are gems themselves.
If you are wondering why women choose to disguise themselves in online games i'd like to turn your attention to fatuglyorslutty.com I was at Pax East this year and attended a seminar that was done by the owner of this website and a couple other women who were like minded. I found it very informative even though i misunderstood the title of the seminar.